Hide Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2013-12-20 | 2013-12-22 → ↓
Duffer1: howcome there isn't a MP coin?
Duffer1: pay 20btc to mine it
Duffer1: 1btc per addres
Duffer1: block reward negotiable
fiat500: LOL
fiat500: now thats innovation
fiat500: market-based block reward
asciilifeform: better marscoin.
asciilifeform: betcha the first orbiting blockchain gizmo will be hooked to an altchain
asciilifeform: not for any good reason, but to promote the otherwise forgettable crackpot alt which it would otherwise be
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.0008817 = 10.3159 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: it's a bet
theskyisfalling: its a me
fiat500: did he end up selling at some point or is he still all in? anyone know?
fiat500: nvm, seems like a moron
mircea_popescu: he gets the occasional good point
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8700 @ 0.00088259 = 7.6785 BTC [+]
ozbot: European Union Stripped of AAA Credit Rating at S&P - Bloomberg
mircea_popescu: no reason it should have had it
mircea_popescu: no reason the us should have aa either
mircea_popescu: c is what it is.
Duffer1: star citizen needs to be a real thing right now that i can play
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21929 @ 0.00088192 = 19.3396 BTC [-] {3}
theskyisfalling: eve wannabe
Duffer1: have you seen the hanger footage on youtube?
Duffer1: hangar even
fiat500: "The downgrade “changes nothing,” President Francois Hollande of France, Europe’s second-largest economy, told reporters today after a summit of European leaders in Brussels."
fiat500: what is the point of having a rating at all?
Duffer1: lower borrower rates
fiat500: i mean given the notion that a downgrade 'changes nothing' - seems like he should be arguing it was undeserved, not that it is meaningless
Duffer1: oh ya politicians say things but all i hear is bbzzzzzzzz
Duffer1: it's weird
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00087815 = 9.8353 BTC [-]
benkay: BingoBoingo: why some insane algol derivative and not a lisp?
BingoBoingo: benkay: I'm trying to put myself in a position to appreciate the better things when I have the background to leverage them.
benkay: hm
benkay: you wouldn't go learn to do things the wrong way just to hear your sensei tell you to pour out two years of practice, would you?
benkay: BingoBoingo: i strongly recommend you not fill your cup with those idiocies. there is a strong push towards things that are easy, but taking the easy route now sets you up for a whole shitton of unnecessary unlearning later.
benkay: obviously, i don't know anything about anything and my 'advice' on programming matters should be regarded as highly suspect
BingoBoingo: Well, anything is better than Java
benkay: but i gather that you don't actually need to be scripting python, and the cleaner the break with whatever your past is (Java especially), the easier of a time you're going to have wrapping your head around the functional approach.
benkay: once you get into the class-based systems (which Python libraries inevitably drive you to), Python is just Java lacking a few particular flakes of shit.
BingoBoingo: Probably.
fiat500: benkay: sounds like a condemnation of OO/imperative programming in general
benkay: it has its place
benkay: in large corporations where they hire labor.
fiat500: fp is not the most elegant/efficient way to express solutions to every problem
fiat500: i think you are conflating the 'where' with the 'why'
benkay: do go on
fiat500: which of my two statements do you find issue with?
benkay: neither. i don't quite understand your comment about wheres and whys, tho.
benkay: but!
benkay: this is a highly contextual conversation between BingoBoingo and myself, albeit in a public domain.
fiat500: hm, sorry, guess i was missing context then
fiat500: my point was that the size of the corporation (or really more generally, where a problem is being solved) does not have a bearing on the type of problem being solved
fiat500: in the context of fp vs imperative
benkay: sounds like you're assuming BigCorp can select even an approximately appropriate tool for a job.
fiat500: how do you define bigcorp?
benkay: heh
fiat500: are we excluding tech companies from this?
benkay: has mgmt that thinks that sw dev teams of greater than 10 members are an acceptable idea.
benkay: doesn't understand nonlinear comms overhead.
BingoBoingo: Well, generally generic BigCorp wants fungible workers, and they generally use blub as a tool to keep workers fungible.
fiat500: fb fits that description, and fb is really good at using say - haskell - as the right tool for some of their internal analytics
benkay: ya and their deploy strategy is also "compile php to c and torrent it around the internal network"
benkay: so you tell me if that's a mature dev environment.
benkay: there's a whole stack of shit that bothers me about OOP
benkay: first, OOP is designed to get people hammering keyboards as quickly as possible, which is orthogonal to teaching humans how computers actually work.
benkay: the pathological case being the .NET Mort.
fiat500: i think my point is, while fb is rather large, has sw dev teams > 10 members, and uses OOP for many things, they also use fp where it makes sense
benkay: yeah i just can't accept FB as an example of a mature and sustained development environment delivering business value.
benkay: of course they have dev teams > 10
BingoBoingo: I don't think .NET and OOP are equivalently problematic. OOP can be useful in cases. Somethings want to be objects. I mean CLOS is a thing. The problem is what happens once you make an object.
benkay: ya well, brain surgery lasers are great in the hands of brain surgeons
benkay: problem is everyone wants to make tools that make computing 'simpler' 'easier' 'more understandable'
benkay: but all of these layers of abstraction get in between problems and people who can fix them.
fiat500: if you think of objects as just structs with function pointers, its hard to argue that an object is an inappropriate way to represent state in a stateful system
benkay: mrh
benkay: i lean towards the monadic approach these days.
benkay: but what about the insane method inheritance?
benkay: how do I teach someone what the ever loving fuck is going on in a Django project?
benkay: a string has a .split method? give me a break!
benkay: do forgive me
benkay: i'm fresh out of a code retreat with some humans who really grok oop and yet failed to put together class hierarchies to implement the game of life in 45 minutes.
fiat500: not to defend django or python, but a split method is useful enough that it should probably exist somewhere - where would you put it?
benkay: in a library of functions
benkay: that operate on a wide variety of data structures
fiat500: ok, i see what you're getting at here
benkay: i come at this all from a weird non cs perspective, so i'm sure a lot of the conclusions that i've come to are completely bogus.
fiat500: the problem arises where a newer, more efficient implementation is found at some point, and the internal structure of the string must change (consider it getting generalized to a rope, as an extreme and ridiculous example)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13593 @ 0.00087945 = 11.9544 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Eh, At least we aren't debating SQL
benkay: in my world, functions take arguments and return values.
fiat500: now this external library of functions must become aware of this change and handle it
benkay: hopefully ones fundamental data structures aren't evolving too quickly
fiat500: well, concrete example
fiat500: NSDictionary in the land of cocoa, changes its internal structure based on its contents
benkay: oh god
fiat500: it switches to a more optimal data structure when its size gets large enough
benkay: this is a pretty common implementation of data structures, right?
ozbot: Array
benkay: yeah that's great
fiat500: not saying its great, just a choice made by the designers, i think it adds a nice variety to the mix
benkay: well to return to the topic of my rant
benkay: when someone sits down to hammer out some OOP, they look at the code surrounding what they need to write, and they copy out stuff that looks like what they've seen and it just works.
BingoBoingo: You know what language really makes sense. TeX
benkay: the OOP dream of the nineties is alive in Py-thon...Py-thon!
fiat500: hahahaha
benkay: but to really understand what's happening they need to understand the class that they're subclassing, what the hell subclassing is, how instances of classes get new-ed the fuck up, all this absurd cognitive overhead
fiat500: versus writing everything from scratch?
fiat500: i think the most egregious example of this is c++, not python
benkay: nah
benkay: vs understanding that functions take input arguments and return values
fiat500: the same values?
BingoBoingo: Eh, C++ is what the first programming classes I'd taken were conducted in.
benkay: given the same inputs you'd have a tough time convincing me there's a good reason not to...
fiat500: BingoBoingo: i mean in the sense that many people who are using c++ don't really understand wtf is going on behind the scenes
BingoBoingo: Before that though I banged away in motorola 68k assembler on the TI-89 and mac
fiat500: benkay: thats a great way to solve some problems, not really great for stateful systems
BingoBoingo: fiat500: Why shouldn't you be ale to change the system as it runs?
benkay: fiat500: there are exceptions.
fiat500: i dont think i said you shouldnt be able to... im saying you should
benkay: fiat500: OOP leads the programmer to encapsulate state in the most insane places possible.
benkay: the b
fiat500: benkay: yeah, not gonna dispute this, i see it all the time, and not just with novices
benkay: all fp does is urge you at a language level to do something sane with your state.
benkay: it's not a panacea
benkay: panacea to the BigCorp software dev problem
benkay: probably never will be, relationship of comms overhead to number of devs on team being what it is.
fiat500: perhaps instead of bigcorp you mean "unsophisticated"
fiat500: i would agree with that
benkay: eh
benkay: it's a metaphor
benkay: exercise for the reader and all that
fiat500: haha
benkay: consider it a shit test for dev ability
benkay: "can you fp? okay. you've got 3 months to demonstrate competence."
fiat500: sounds generous
benkay: it's typically obvious after 2 weeks when they can't.
benkay: point being: oop has layers and layers of absurd needless complexity.
benkay: there are lisps for every platform these days
benkay: but BingoBoingo wouldn't you like your platform to support true parallelized operation eh eh eh?
BingoBoingo: benkay: I would. Maybe.
BingoBoingo: I'd settle for does what it is told,
ozbot: fuckit 1.0.0 : Python Package Index
BingoBoingo: I wouldn't mind a Macintosh SE/30 with less magic smoke than the last one produced.
benkay: next computer i get excited about comes from the asciilifeform labs
BingoBoingo: Probably the same here
benkay: next computer my company actually buys me is a well-designed thing whose default ctags implementation doesn't recurse
benkay: good night sir
fiat500: "This module is like violence: if it doesn't work, you just need more of it."
fiat500: beautiful
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.2928 = 0.5856 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11535 @ 0.00088004 = 10.1513 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.05 = 1 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 114 @ 0.002904 = 0.3311 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19150 @ 0.00087974 = 16.847 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: How many accounts are posting on behalf of NeoBee nao? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=182236
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5000 @ 0.00088148 = 4.4074 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00088148 = 3.9667 BTC [+]
ozbot: 1180923195.25803 | Next Diff in 2009 blocks | Estimated Change: -15.8654% in 16d 3h 52m 29s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 727 @ 0.00088182 = 0.6411 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20573 @ 0.00088316 = 18.1693 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11775 @ 0.00088324 = 10.4002 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: ;;asks 1250
gribble: There are currently 22017.358 bitcoins offered at or under 1250.0 USD, worth 20955828.2806 USD in total. | Data vintage: 0.0979 seconds
jurov: Please note that while Danny enjoys interacting with the forum and answering questions when he can, he is still the CEO of the company, and thus is quite busy most of the time.
jurov: busy indeed.. extracting bitcoins from weexchange
jurov: Hello everyone, this account will be used for Neo investor-related updates and communications going forward, rather than the ThickAsThieves one.
jurov: ha.
jurov: Please whitelist this account for business use. I will follow up with a post from my main account, ThickAsThieves.
jurov: so it's TAT
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18806 @ 0.00087778 = 16.5075 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00087722 = 17.8076 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00088324 = 8.5674 BTC [+]
bevardis1: Hey guys. I want to buy some bitcoins. How fast is it possible to do it with a reasonable price (not more than 20% increase, hopefully <10%)? I have paypal, credit card, etc. I'm european. Looking for advice here, not offers :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00088324 = 3.7096 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.002905 = 0.2905 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 139 @ 0.001 = 0.139 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.292775 = 1.1711 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.29289999 = 1.1716 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 373 @ 0.0026792 = 0.9993 BTC [-] {2}
pankkake: Bernankoin v1.2 released, dual QE scheduled for january, affirmative action later
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.28000002 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.27880201 = 1.394 BTC [-] {3}
ozbot: Poltergeist behaviour haunts St. John's family - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
nubbins`: brutally poor standard of journalism haunts st. john's news team
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10250 @ 0.00087911 = 9.0109 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: This is more of a haunting than a poltergeist behavior which tends to be more violent. My wife and I have had many strange unexplained experiences happen also. I am no so keen on mediums though. There are only a few in the world that are actually any good at being specific or accurate.
ThickAsThieves: (commenter)
ThickAsThieves: ;;bcstats
gribble: Current Blocks: 276215 | Current Difficulty: 1.1809231952580261E9 | Next Difficulty At Block: 278207 | Next Difficulty In: 1992 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 6 days, 0 hours, 28 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 1097402926.23 | Estimated Percent Change: -7.07246
ThickAsThieves: the bet should be closed
ozbot: BitBet - BTC network difficulty to top 1B before 2014
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00088177 = 1.9399 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7129 @ 0.00088177 = 6.2861 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00012 = 0.6 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9200 @ 0.00088136 = 8.1085 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC [+]
ozbot: 1180923195.25803 | Next Diff in 1988 blocks | Estimated Change: -18.5612% in 16d 8h 45m 5s
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 63 @ 0.00283413 = 0.1786 BTC [+] {5}
nubbins`: nice
knotwork: wow yeah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00088251 = 8.1632 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00088294 = 13.2882 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: world war 3 will be different, in that it won't be called world war 3
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG.F2] 1 @ 0.6 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.29288977 = 1.4644 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13909 @ 0.00088324 = 12.285 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7591 @ 0.0008834 = 6.7059 BTC [+]
pankkake: got a "coinchat is back" mail. I thought that was TradeFortress' thing?
ThickAsThieves: sounds right
ozbot: Bitcoin Hashrate Distribution - Blockchain.info
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9273 @ 0.00087754 = 8.1374 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: BTCG and Ghash have big slices
pankkake: 17% unknown :o
ThickAsThieves: wonder if governments will regulate mining pools one day
pankkake: they have every incentive to do so… but pools are also easy to hide
pankkake: perhaps at the cost of some latency
ThickAsThieves: the more hidden they are the less popular they are
asciilifeform: by 'regulate,' perhaps you mean pwn?
asciilifeform: how many miners are using authentication of any sort whatsoever
pankkake: regulation is "drowning by bureaucracy"
asciilifeform: you might already be mining for the reich
asciilifeform: without knowing it.
pankkake: hmm, very easy to MITM miners
ThickAsThieves: like limit pools to 10%, tax them
asciilifeform: and most 'special' of all are the folks who connect to pools... through tor.
pankkake: I would think more like forbid "bad" transactions
ThickAsThieves: like redlisting etc
pankkake: yeah
ThickAsThieves: its kinda like forking the chain
asciilifeform: ThickAsThieves: much easier would be a crown-imposed altcoin
asciilifeform: 'trade yer TerrorCoins for ReichCoins! you can even pay tax in them.'
ThickAsThieves: i sure love paying tax
asciilifeform: pre-mined by your local Department of Plenty, naturally.
pankkake: I aim to sell Bernankoin to the USG!
pankkake: it's funny that no matter how hard you try to make a bad coin, people go out there to "promote" it
ThickAsThieves: someone should make an altcoin building program
ThickAsThieves: choose your settings
pankkake: yeah, that's should be my next project
ThickAsThieves: basically make it so any joe can make an altcoin
ThickAsThieves: you could even host pools
ThickAsThieves: make it a whole SaaS
pankkake: quite a lot of work, but sure should pay in the long run
ozbot: Stolen Target Credit Cards Are Selling For $20 - $100 Each - Forbes
ThickAsThieves: Bitcoin, as well as other irreversible and semi-anonymous ways of sending money including Litecoin, WebMoney, PerfectMoney, and traditional wire transfers.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5275 @ 0.00087708 = 4.6266 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: They can be bought using, of course, Bitcoin, as well as other irreversible and semi-anonymous ways of sending money including Litecoin
ThickAsThieves: (Amusingly, one of my normal Bitcoin sources emailed me to say, “ If Target accepted Bitcoins, 40 million individuals would have been protected.”
ThickAsThieves: "The only good news: Krebs reports that the Target thieves did not get the cards CVV2 — that 3 or 4 digit security number printed on back of cards — which means they can’t do any online shopping with the cards. "
ThickAsThieves: thats not true at all
pankkake: credit cards is the worst security ever
pankkake: I don't even understand how something so bad can exist
mircea_popescu: because they were made before the internet forced tech up everyone's throat, by people who believe in legal solutions.
ThickAsThieves: Target is 10% off this weekend too
ThickAsThieves: their stock is up however
mircea_popescu: and any government that asserts any sort of infringement on teh republic of bitcoin's sovereignity, such as by purporting to "tax" bitcoins or to "regulate" mining etc is thereby declaring war, and will feel the full wrath and might of said republic.
ThickAsThieves: would you say the same about the internet?
mircea_popescu: no, inasmuch as the internet is not a republic.
mircea_popescu: what's the internet gonna do, blog about you ?
ThickAsThieves: block mining?
ThickAsThieves: what if gov uses some roundabout means of internet control to impede bitcoin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12016 @ 0.00087883 = 10.56 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.2929 = 1.4645 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: well how would i know ?
mircea_popescu: likely bitcoin will use some roundabout means of internet control to impede nonsense.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.2929 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: do you think bitcoin is dependent on the web?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11300 @ 0.00088045 = 9.9491 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: if so, should not the republic defend it?
ThickAsThieves: an attack on my friend
mod6: bitcoin doesn't need the internet: http://trilema.com/2012/the-politics-of-bitcoin/
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is not dependent on the web in any way.
mircea_popescu: what exactly is the relation of bitcoin to the web, mpoe-pr ?
ThickAsThieves: you think bitcoin would stay healthy without it the net?
mod6: bitcoin will find a way. if anything, i think we'd build our own communications network if we needed to.
ThickAsThieves: well Gavin is on that satellite project right
mod6: paul revere style light signals or even smoke signals would work.
knotwork: web and net are different, web is just another thing that uses the net as transport, much like bitcoin is
ThickAsThieves: assume i mean the network we all use to communicate
knotwork: bitcoin does depend on having some kind of net though if only sneakers-and-paper-wallets net
ThickAsThieves: how does mining happen? tx takes mos to confirm?
knotwork: print out a buy order GPG message to mpoe-pr and snailmail it to a penpal in Romania who drops it in a dead-drop for MPOE-spy to pick up
knotwork: mining is trickier yeah
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves how is bitcoin related to the web, sweriously
knotwork: run your local fork via sneakernet all year, then put it on santa's plate with his cookies and milk so when he zooms around the world faster than light he picks them all up, maybe even has a copier in his sleigh to copy it so he puts in your stocking all the chaisn from all the kids he visited before you
knotwork: so we'd have one year to two year long forks in progress constantly
knotwork: maybe less if easter bunny and tooth fairy help him
knotwork: or we could use acoustic modems over long distance phone lines but that is so much less elegant, albeit shorter forks. UUCP to the rescue, whee!
knotwork: subscribe to an alt.blockchains.bitcoin newsgroup, presto
mircea_popescu: probably a sort of point to point over wireless is already happening in the major cities
mircea_popescu: just too much spare wireless capacity available.
knotwork: ho yeah sure go ahead put Santa out of a job already, fine. :)
knotwork: you can do UUCP over ham radio though sure
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves part of the problem is perhaps that you're confusing the internet and the web
mircea_popescu: irc for instance is not on the web
knotwork: The north pole is probably a big aerial for christmas ham radio anyway as well as a faster than light communicator so Santa can stay in touch with the Ms. wheil delivering prezzies.
mircea_popescu: it's on 194/6667
asciilifeform: one thing i occasionally try to convince people off is that: the time to invent the parachute is before, rather than after, being thrown out of the plane
asciilifeform: bring back fidonet now.
mircea_popescu: i never knew it went away
knotwork: yeah somewhere between thrown in the deep end to learn to swim and thrown out of an airplane to incentivise inventing a parachute there is a slope of some slipperiness or lack of slipperiness or nasty friction or razor blades or something
knotwork: a gulf or divide maybe
mircea_popescu: anyway, the parachute argument eschews the infinity problem.
mircea_popescu: after you're done throwing an infinite number of people out of the airplane
mircea_popescu: there's an infinite number of people still using the airplane.
asciilifeform: flying Hilbert Hotel?
mircea_popescu: nobody can win the war on concepts, be they purely theoretical like heliocentrism or quite sordid like psychoactives,
knotwork: if there are an infinate number of people in the airplane then relativity maybe should indicate there must also be an infinite number of moments of time?
mircea_popescu: and the airplane throwing thing is a fascinating exercise in impotence.
knotwork: if so maybe we can later after inventing parachute put in an infinite number of parachutes, and even back when we built the first infinite-capacity airplane it would have all those parachutes that will eventually be invented?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10219 @ 0.00087684 = 8.9604 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18900 @ 0.00088138 = 16.6581 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 10 @ 0.02102 = 0.2102 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9341 @ 0.0008827 = 8.2453 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11409 @ 0.00088425 = 10.0884 BTC [+] {2}
the20year: anyone know offhand what daily volume is at havelock?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8472 @ 0.00088446 = 7.4931 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5728 @ 0.00088463 = 5.0672 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.048801 = 0.1952 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.002905 = 0.2905 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14600 @ 0.00088463 = 12.9156 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 2084 @ 0.00012 = 0.2501 BTC [+]
zach_: hey i have a question for a mod or someone from bitbet
zach_: does bitbet work with people sending funds from coinbase?
nubbins`: i think some guy got burned doing that a while ago
nubbins`: coinbase cheaped out on the tx fee, guy missed a bet deadline
pankkake: coinbase is known for sending transactions late, too
zach_: na i'm asking because i saw on smoeother betting site that coinbase did not work for sending money to them, something about it sending it back to the same address, just like bitbet does, and there being issues with that
pankkake: but if you're early enough, why not, just be sure to specify an address manually
pankkake: bitbet allows you to have a custom address, it won't necessarily use the sending address
zach_: ok, how do i contact someone from bitbet then
pankkake: you sent it already?
zach_: yup...
zach_: not totally sure but i don't think i specified a different address to receive
pankkake: I don't think you have a way to prove you were that transaction
pankkake: well you can see the out address on the public bet list
mircea_popescu: zach_ as long as you control the destination address, you'll be fine.
mircea_popescu: if however you send in such a way that your transaction doesn't make it before the bet closes, you're screwed.
zach_: if i did not enter an address, it will just get sent back to coinbase correct? does that work are are there problems with that
mircea_popescu: this means, not using shitty services that don't add a fee to txs, and not betting late.
mircea_popescu: if you did not enter an address then coinbase thanks you for your donation.
twizt: lol so many half assed designed services
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.002904 = 0.2904 BTC [-]
zach_: why would it not just go back to that same coinbase wallet, that is my wallet
twizt: zach_: i think that answer depends on how coinbase is designed...
twizt: anything we say is mere speculation
Jere_Jones: Was the 1B difficulty bet the largest bitbet ever?
mircea_popescu: zach_ because it is likely that coinbase uses some sort of minimal security.
mircea_popescu: this means that it sweeps its btc into a cold wallet, which also means it will be paying from addresses it controls,
zach_: ok so if a bet has not resolved yet is there a way to change the address for it to send payouts
mircea_popescu: not from addresses you contrl.
mircea_popescu: no, there is no way to change addresses it sends payouts to. otherwise everyone would cash in on everyone else's bets.
zach_: i can prove from my coinebase transaction history that the bet in question was sent by me
mircea_popescu: Jere_Jones nah, there were > 1k ones
mircea_popescu: course, back then btc was arguably less valuable.
twizt: zach_: i think their cust serv would be the best suited to answer your question
nubbins`: zach_: "prove" in what sense?
mircea_popescu: zach_ then you could i suppose pester them to credit it, when it shows up. in general however you should not be doing this.
nubbins`: a screenshot isn't proof
zach_: no cuz i can show i sent it from my address to the given address it said to place the bet
nubbins`: prove to whom?
mircea_popescu: does coinbase actually allocate addresses to users, like a sort of wallet ?
nubbins`: coinbase or bitbet?
mircea_popescu: i thought it was a btc buying service.
zach_: well now i know
Namworld: Not really. How would you prove you sent that transaction? You can't. A screenshot isn't good enough. I could make a screenshot and edit it 50 times for all amounts and claim all bets as mine.
mircea_popescu: Namworld i assumed they allow him to sign with the address ?
Namworld: Try showing coinbase the transaction out was sent to bitbet and it came back as a winning bet, if it happens you win.
Namworld: Not sure. I don't know how coinbase wallets are designed
twizt: ^^^
twizt: this isnt coinbase' cust service chat lol
mircea_popescu: so the guy can ask. course... always a good idea to ask before rather than after lol
ozbot: Reuters: RSA Weakened Encryption For $10M From NSA - Slashdot
mircea_popescu: yest news nubs
ozbot: Tech executives to Obama: NSA spying revelations are threatening business - The Washington Post
ozbot: Gluglug X60 Laptop now certified to Respect Your Freedom — Free Software Foundation — working to
mircea_popescu: certified by whom ?
mircea_popescu: better than nothing i guess.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00088189 = 11.6409 BTC [-] {3}
kakobrekla: ok so i cant figure out which box is connected as kakobreklaaa
kakobrekla: ill try to reboot the whole house
kakobreklaaa: nvm found it!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00088165 = 8.023 BTC [-]
ozbot: BitBet - BTC network difficulty to top 1B before 2014
mircea_popescu: and for all the talk of displeasure, if one compares the
mircea_popescu: 24-08-13 17:37Yes100`0002.00000000126cP3.77154710
mircea_popescu: with the
mircea_popescu: 18-12-13 14:04Yes5`2462.088341811468A2.16559433
mircea_popescu: it seems rather balanced, within reason.
mircea_popescu: 90ish percent vs 3ish%
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36550 @ 0.00088054 = 32.1837 BTC [-] {4}
[\]: x60s?
[\]: might as well sell them a 486
[\]: New 8-cell 5.2aH (5200mAh) battery installed (these are the larger variety, which come with extended battery life)
[\]: gonna need it
[\]: gimmicks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 632 @ 0.00087963 = 0.5559 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18888 @ 0.00087736 = 16.5716 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 151 @ 0.00296707 = 0.448 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.29289999 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10004 @ 0.00087667 = 8.7702 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9520 @ 0.00088163 = 8.3931 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7876 @ 0.00088413 = 6.9634 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.05 = 0.75 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 569 @ 0.00290279 = 1.6517 BTC [-] {3}
ozbot: Pi Wallet - Secure your coins now
kakobrekla: hm nvm
kakobrekla: seems just en expencive rpi
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 125 @ 0.00283127 = 0.3539 BTC [-] {4}
Duffer1: Scarlett vs Naniwa on now, 14 btc prize
ozbot: Totalbiscuit - Twitch
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00088548 = 10.183 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5441.msg3947084#msg3947084
kakobrekla: not like he knew the amt of fake euro debt he took upon himself from the start
ozbot: 1180923195.25803 | Next Diff in 1944 blocks | Estimated Change: 8.5864% in 12d 7h 48m 27s
mircea_popescu: http://bitbet.us/bet/619/bitcoin-difficulty-at-or-above-2b-before-feb/ << is my math off or does the diff need to go up 30% both periods for this to come out yes ?
ozbot: BitBet - Bitcoin difficulty at or above 2B before Feb 2014
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 324 @ 0.00088548 = 0.2869 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: we'll have 3 changes before then right?
mircea_popescu: hm. i guess it's actually 41 days
mircea_popescu: so it could be 3 changes yes
mircea_popescu: right on the cusp
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12094 @ 0.0008841 = 10.6923 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: these crazy fucking bets.
ThickAsThieves: i think itll be just like this time
mircea_popescu: i still don't know how they manage to be so well picked ffs.
ThickAsThieves: seem absurd now, likely later, and obvious the week before
mircea_popescu: could be yeah
ThickAsThieves: I have a bet on Yes
mircea_popescu: allow me to rehash the usual arguments : this bet calls for a 50% increase in deployed hash power within a month.
mircea_popescu: this means a good few mwh
ThickAsThieves: 3PH was added this period
Duffer1: banking on bfl delivering their monarchs tat? :P
ThickAsThieves: why not 4 more?
mircea_popescu: welll....
ThickAsThieves: cointerra delivering too right?
mircea_popescu: if you went to the us army and said "you have to increase your firepower by 50%. you have one month. you can't get a bank loan for this"
ThickAsThieves: and ghash taking over the world
mircea_popescu: then it'd be a much safer bet.
Duffer1: and hashfast too i suppose
ThickAsThieves: mp you act like they need to decide in the present to deply PHs
ThickAsThieves: maybe they decided 2mos ago
mircea_popescu: this is a point.
mircea_popescu: what's a ph cost by now, like 5mn ?
ThickAsThieves: good question
ThickAsThieves: thatll be the currency come spring
ThickAsThieves: how many PH you got?
ThickAsThieves: do you even PH?
mod6: heheh
mircea_popescu: and the humans got 5 ph and the elves 7 and the dwarves only 3 cause they were midgets
mircea_popescu: yet the last ph...
ThickAsThieves: luke-jr!
mircea_popescu: i wonder if anyone still cpu solo mines
mircea_popescu: maybe there's someone in a cave somewhere, never turned it off.
ThickAsThieves: a lottery ticket is faster
mircea_popescu: maybe it's a girl and she likes it sloo
ThickAsThieves: is the girl in the cave or the cave in the girl?
ThickAsThieves: facebook sure is getting shitty
ThickAsThieves: it's all slow and myspacey now
mircea_popescu: pity i can't short it more.
ozbot: Carmat's groundbreaking five-year artificial heart gets its first patient in France | VentureBeat |
ThickAsThieves: "Not only did the company have to create something that minimized the risk of clot formation, but it also had to ensure that the device was repairable and reliable."
ThickAsThieves: Hello, can I speak with customer service, my heart has stopped functioning. Please hold.
mircea_popescu: i see about $3 per gh. so it'd be 3mn not 5 for a ph
mircea_popescu: people spendign 12 mn to buy mining gear in a month ? definitely.
mircea_popescu: maybe this is how bitcoin dies, we run out of longints to save the diff.
ThickAsThieves: those clean coins will be valuable one day
mircea_popescu: the good old days.
ozbot: BitBet - Network Difficulty under 20 million.
Duffer1: hehe
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00088352 = 7.9517 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20800 @ 0.00088077 = 18.32 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HIF] 402 @ 0.00043098 = 0.1733 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4100 @ 0.00088072 = 3.611 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2334 @ 0.00088027 = 2.0546 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: got a word from inside of bitstamp, mysql server with no replication and once per day local mysql dump
Duffer1: no replication?
fiat500: such redundancy, much integrity, many backup, so wow
benkay: nice
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00088352 = 3.8433 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 22 @ 0.2929 = 6.4438 BTC [+]
benkay: ;;ud narpalt
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 30 @ 0.05 = 1.5 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1000 @ 0.00012 = 0.12 BTC [+]
jurov: once per day?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] [PAID] 1.79378050 BTC to 9`575 shares, 18734 satoshi per share
mikaeldice: This will end well
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00087974 = 12.8882 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: When asked about their shared Catholic faith, Eszterhas said of Gibson, "In my mind, his Catholicism is a figment of his imagination."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.05 = 0.45 BTC [+]
benkay: ;;google the many ways mpex
gribble: Hometown Heroes: Kelsey McClellan | MPEX Experience: <http://mpex-experience.com/2013/11/26/hometown-heroes-kelsey-mcclellan/>; Loper OS » A Review of MPEx, the Bitcoin Stock Exchange.: <http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1108>; Prosoniq MPEX Home Page: <http://mpex.prosoniq.com/>
benkay: man google hates trilema
benkay: $depth S.NSA
mpexbot: benkay: S.NSA Bids: ['46213 @ 0.00012', '50000 @ 0.000107', '54387 @ 0.000105', '20000 @ 0.0001', '1000 @ 0.0001']
mpexbot: benkay: Asks: ['7500 @ 0.00014', '10000 @ 0.00015', '9220 @ 0.00016', '35000 @ 0.00017', '50000 @ 0.00021']
mircea_popescu: google got 10mn from nsa.
benkay: ;;duckduckgo foo
gribble: Error: "duckduckgo" is not a valid command.
benkay: nanotube's an nsa stooge.
ozbot: Loper OS » Of Decaying Urbits.
ozbot: A few gifs I have collected for your perusing. - Imgur
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16450 @ 0.00088038 = 14.4823 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: ChromaWallet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10043 @ 0.00088081 = 8.846 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 6 @ 0.04999999 = 0.3 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00088376 = 22.094 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: such outer reaches of cosmos
benkay: real destination infinite
KRS|Gotyawallet: many things!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11827 @ 0.0008805 = 10.4137 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: $proxies
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 10 @ 0.05 = 0.5 BTC [+]
jurov: drat, doesnt work
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29668 @ 0.00087671 = 26.0102 BTC [-] {4}
benkay: seems like none are up
jurov: mpex.co is
benkay: oh you
jurov: mpex.coinbr.com fixed
jurov: mpex6.coinbr.com is ipv6 only
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20670 @ 0.00087615 = 18.11 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: looks like i went too creative with the spot instance
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11513 @ 0.00087589 = 10.0841 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: lol nsa is definitely gobbling up all resources, now $0.02/hr for t1. micro in virginia?
jurov: (as opposed to 0.004 in oregon)
jurov: btw, now s3 supports post requests, it would be worthwhile to build mpex proxy using s3 only
jurov: anyone?
benkay: s3 as trade interface
benkay: trade interface all the things
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.05 = 0.2 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 57 @ 0.00283389 = 0.1615 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23400 @ 0.00087529 = 20.4818 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39200 @ 0.00087818 = 34.4247 BTC [+]
benkay: !t m s.mpoe
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1D: 0.00087445 / 0.00088417 / 0.00091105 (939510 shares, 830.69 BTC), 7D: 0.00087445 / 0.00089949 / 0.00091394 (5991164 shares, 5,389.04 BTC), 30D: 0.0007725 / 0.00087086 / 0.00091394 (13560569 shares, 11,809.38 BTC)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17250 @ 0.00087818 = 15.1486 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48888 @ 0.00087445 = 42.7501 BTC [-]
benkay: ;;calc ((500 - 400) / 400) - 0.0044804
gribble: 0.2455196
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33200 @ 0.00087423 = 29.0244 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00087356 = 22.1011 BTC [-] {3}
benkay: ;;ticker --market btcavg
gribble: BitcoinAverage BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 593.43, Best ask: 596.84, Bid-ask spread: 3.41000, Last trade: 594.23, 24 hour volume: 61377.55, 24 hour low: None, 24 hour high: None, 24 hour vwap: 613.28
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36449 @ 0.00087268 = 31.8083 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2651 @ 0.00087125 = 2.3097 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22584 @ 0.00087125 = 19.6763 BTC [-]
benkay: ;;ticker --market btcavg
gribble: BitcoinAverage BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 590.98, Best ask: 594.3, Bid-ask spread: 3.32000, Last trade: 593.02, 24 hour volume: 61055.72, 24 hour low: None, 24 hour high: None, 24 hour vwap: 612.54
benkay: davout: what are the delivery venues for X.EUR?
benkay: ah, bitcoin-central. nevermind.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 1000 @ 0.001 = 1 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 2360 @ 0.00281965 = 6.6544 BTC [-] {15}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4125 @ 0.00012 = 0.495 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.28601101 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.29484 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.29486 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 27 @ 0.29610147 = 7.9947 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.297 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.297 = 0.594 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 141200 @ 0.00087239 = 123.1815 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4409 @ 0.00087125 = 3.8413 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28600 @ 0.00087103 = 24.9115 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14617 @ 0.0008706 = 12.7256 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2132 @ 0.00087223 = 1.8596 BTC [+]
KRS|Gotyawallet: a btc exchange opened in Romania today? cant find anything on it
mircea_popescu: not today, days ago.
mircea_popescu: tis in teh logs.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 8000 @ 0.00012 = 0.96 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.297 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41729 @ 0.00086864 = 36.2475 BTC [-] {2}
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