asciilifeform: when folx w/ an actual, working industrial base print 1e6 tonned of paperola, would expect result would be diff. vs when folx who manufacture only tentacle pr0n do it
asciilifeform: sorta like a 17yo student going on a bender, vs. 60yo eltsin with coupla crumbs of liver remaining
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform]: this session making tempest was pretty interesting. only a couple of days to get to this point. first time I've enjoyed barking a nontrivial program into an LLM. gpt-5.1-codex-max. I jammed asciilifeform's 0xFA spec directly into the system prompt via AGENTS.md. had the thing write an enormous test suite from the spec.
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform]: rather than get hung up about whether it can "think", it's perfectly useful if what it did was create a faithful *projection* of well-written thought from the spec to C
asciilifeform: s1gnp0st: will be interesting to read (esp. if commented re: how much massage/what kind was req'd to make it go)
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform]: will post the full sauces.
phf: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2025-11-19#1035622 << i'll be honest, my pest doesn't even attempt to keep chains longterm. every time i reload and reconnect, it's a fresh chain.
dulapbot: Logged on 2025-11-19 12:38:09 signpost[asciilifeform]: I do suspect that I'm running into broken chain issues on my end trying to get "tempest" (don't think anyone used that name yet?) fully synced
phf: i think o.g. spec required you to spit warnings and errors when there's chain shenanigans, but afaiu the new one doesn't. still i suspect if you were to make an llm /really/ stick it to a spec, a clever little bot will make you an pest that will be rather unhappy with what we actually have in the logchain
phf: *afair rather
phf: (apropos pest wishlist, i really wish public logotrons would support multipart messages. or at least did when there was active conversation last time. i think mine still uses the previous multipart messages spec, with the special character, because it's backwards compatible. i thin
phf: k the new multipart requires support from everyone, otherwise messages will be lost, and i don't think everyone supports it. but i also don't really know the state of things. i'm writing a bunch of extra stuff to trigger multipart. foobar)
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform]: I'm receiving those with the continuation indicator just ending up in weechat as garbage on a separate message
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform] backed off the autistic bot's urge to conform the world to an impl that stitches what it gets together at best effort.
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform]: de facto required at this point that zeroed netchains and selfchains be tolerated
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform]: "everything not saved will be lost"
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform]: if nobody's selfchain can get to the chunks such a station laid down, gone eh? and even then, one could only walk from where such a speaker still maintaining a chain spoke
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: phf: akris supports the new multipart (and old multipart). I don't know about any other stations.
awt_akris[asciilifeform]: 100% multipart support would be very nice
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-21#1035703 << chains, recall, came outta asciilifeform's orig attempt to 'square the circle' of getting reasonable certainty that it's the same $fella-who-aint-in-your-l1 talking at time t and t+n
asciilifeform: (this is before we even got retrieval of old msgs going)
asciilifeform: theoretically they also let you have usenet-style replies/threads, but afaik this aint in any current pestron
asciilifeform: (possibly 1 day somebody will bake...)
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2025-11-21#1035710 << zeroed selfchains always gotta work (how else new speaker?) , zeroed netchains leave you with a message that can only be put in the correct place by timestamp (yours or his) which introduces lulz potential (somebody can stick a msg 'backwards in time' using the getdata mech
asciilifeform: anism)
asciilifeform is impressed that there are afaik 5 (!!!) pestrons, by 4 people, that don't 100% implement the protocol, but still work!
asciilifeform claps
asciilifeform: iirc there was even another ( punkman ? gregory_nyssa ? or both ? ) attempt, not published but mentioned by author, in 1st yr of pestnet
asciilifeform had own attempt, currently on ice, because it sucked arse
asciilifeform: imho much of what's not implemented currently , is easy to do without because we have, what, 6 people who talk with any regularity
asciilifeform: if we had the traffic of e.g. #t at its heyday -- might be different story
asciilifeform: btw the 'inv' cmd in 0xfa spec is specifically to make retro-retrieval of the null-netchained msgs at least theoretically possible.
asciilifeform: (i.e. a peer can offer'em to you, and you'll get'em, even if there was otherwise no way for you to know that they had existed)
asciilifeform intended from the start to abolish not only need for centralized relay a la irc, but centralized loggers, in principle anybody plugged into a pestnet ooughta be able to stand up a logger just by switching on a 'http logger at port xyz' in his config etc
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform]: exported a netchain-ordered log with a little svg lineage visualizer.
s1gnp0st[asciilifeform]: ~40mb chonker