lobbes[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-08#1018008 << ty for pointing this out. I've managed to "partially" disable icmp on my station in that I can no longer ping it with 'ping', but for some reason I can still prod at the ports via 'nmap'
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-08 22:49:46 asciilifeform[6]: lobbes: fwiw if a box containing pestron is config'd as rec'd in orig spec (i.e. icmp disabled) yer nmap scan won't work.
lobbes[asciilifeform]: off to bed rn, but I'll continue configuring it to spec this weekend
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-09#1018057 << had a 9pm appointment, the guy was in a track suit, on a couch, in his living room. 5 minutes to describe the problem, "alright, i sent your script to cvs"
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-09 15:27:27 phf[awt]: clicking languages are african
phf[asciilifeform]: bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind
signpost[asciilifeform]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l2IgY9QYNw << current status of nation of same.
phf[asciilifeform]: they are using the term разведчик "razvedchik", and the extra layer of mockery is lost in translation. a spy in english necessarily implies some kind of "spy vs spy" connotation, the inherent ambiguity of the profession. a razvedchik, is kind of like a ranger and a navy se
phf[asciilifeform]: al combined, inherently heroic, a man who risks his life and liberty for his nation
signpost[asciilifeform] figured the Very Serious Spy obtaining thumb drive church pictures wasn't solemn respect, lol
phf[asciilifeform]: no, no, that wasn't a dis at whelan, they were exploring the circumstances of his arest, making light of the fact that his cover was weak
signpost[asciilifeform]: ah ok
phf[asciilifeform]: ah she even explicitly says it at some point "for us he's a spy, for them he's a razvedchik"
signpost[asciilifeform]: "look what they do to the ones that earnestly give a shit" ?
signpost[asciilifeform]: at any rate, the episode typifies contemporary US empire
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018075 << yeah "extra layer of mockery" of the exchange, not of whelan
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-10 10:04:50 phf[awt]: they are using the term разведчик "razvedchik", and the extra layer of mockery is lost in translation. a spy in english necessarily implies some kind of "spy vs spy" connotation, the inherent ambiguity of the profession. a razvedchik, is kind of like a ranger and a navy
phf[asciilifeform]: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018081 << hmm, i've realized that there's no analogy availble. a nation that lacks a socio-cultural cohesion, doesn't have an equivalent of a "razvedchik"
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-10 10:09:24 signpost: "look what they do to the ones that earnestly give a shit" ?
signpost[asciilifeform]: nah, we feed our fake heroes to the mob as downfall porn.
phf[asciilifeform]: so it's not about "giving a shit", it's about having a role that's inherently celebrated, her rant hinges on the semantic clarification, that whelan is indeed a "razvedchik", and having clarified that she immediately demonstrates the absurdity of the exchange to the listener
signpost[asciilifeform]: there is no esteemed place to stand.
phf[asciilifeform]: maybe journalists in the 80s movies. "he's an american journalist! send in the seals! no journalist left behind!" etc
phf[asciilifeform]: or perhaps it just highlights the self-evident, that a black lesbian baller who got caught on drug charges is the equivalent of razvedchik in u.s.
signpost[asciilifeform]: I suppose by "give a shit", I mean that a guy like Whelan's decision to "serve his country" is a vestigial urge to be the stand-up patriot, to seek to stand in what I'm (perhaps still butchering by) assigning "razvedchik".
signpost[asciilifeform]: I always get the mental image of the guy at the end of Children of Men trying to put his blown-out guts back in.
signpost[asciilifeform]: pointless act, nevertheless compelled
signpost[asciilifeform]: I dunno how one continues to have a US once even the guys that wanted to put-guts-back-in are dead/retired
signpost[asciilifeform]: at any rate these glimpses into longer culture I've gotten by chatting with you gents have always been useful, if half-understood.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018090 << 'prison aint war, no one comes out a hero'(tm)(r)(ru)
asciilifeform: possibly clue to why 'usa has no heroes', come to think of it.
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-10 10:24:22 phf[awt]: maybe journalists in the 80s movies. "he's an american journalist! send in the seals! no journalist left behind!" etc
signpost[asciilifeform]: mhm.
asciilifeform: 'join us army! die for some fat sow's right to marry her dog'(tm)(r)(mp)
phf[asciilifeform]: signpost, see i don't know what drove whelan to become a hero, but from ru perspective, it's not a rationalizable thing. one doesn't become a razvedchik for the clout, but because it's "self evidently" the right thing to do. from this perspective the mockery of "zogbot" is just ano
phf[asciilifeform]: ther side of this nation without cultural and social cohesion coin
phf[asciilifeform]: a russian wouldn't see whelan as a "well meaning guy" or "dilusional guy who got tricked by the system" or any of these things. one becomes a razvedchik because one is that caliber of a person.
signpost[asciilifeform]: to guess from analogy from my own life, my great grandfather was a highly decorated ww1 vet. that signal attenuated over the generations, to the point where I was the first non .mil in as long.
signpost[asciilifeform]: the "something to be imitated/worshipped" goes away without whatever the hell isn't in US
signpost[asciilifeform]: but god knows we still have his medals.
phf[asciilifeform]: and from that same perspective there's no shame in fighting for your country, even if your country is being otherwise "taken away from you". those are lateral concerns, see, the question is not why zogbot zogbot, but why he doesn't custer's last stand on own soil
phf[asciilifeform]: focusing on "zogbot" part is in my opinion ennui, but see once you start exploring the custer question, you're suddenly outside of the safety of acceptable discourse
phf[asciilifeform]: russia is full of "came back from great war, realized country is a mess, decided to do something about it" stories, so this internal incoherency is self-resolvable. razvedchik always remains a razvedchik even if he's the last true russian so to speak
signpost[asciilifeform]: a country with long history would've come back from many of these near-extinctions, makes sense.
signpost[asciilifeform]: probably the existence of this recurring literary character embodied is a helpful ingredient.
phf[asciilifeform]: but in u.s. you don't have stories of zogbot who custered and were proven right for it, because the foundational myth is so strong
phf[asciilifeform]: there's always gotta be a scene where brigadier general realizes that He Was Wrong, salutes his men, and dies valiantly, in an attempt to restrore the honor of his title
phf[asciilifeform]: also come to think of it, being a razvedchik puts you in a pantheon, because there's been plenty of wars where russia was unambiguously the wronged party, plenty of it captured in literary characters, yes
phf[asciilifeform]: that's why for example a high intelligence anti-rus argument is that if one wants to prevent another ukrain or whatever, one needs to get rid of russian literature
phf[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform, you still read tiphareth? i started thinking about this "high intelligence anti-rus argument", went to check out what he's been up to. мрак
asciilifeform: phf: not looked for ~yr iirc. ( do link if he has new & lulzy crackpottery, last asciilifeform saw he seemed like '1 trick pony' )
asciilifeform: ( for the innocent, tiphareth was(is?) a ru maths d00d who escaped to brazil on acct of 'cruelty of putler'(tm), and professes a strange mix of philosophies, comprised of traditional orc self-hatred & fellatio for 'internationalkomyoonity' -- but somehow simult. disdain for 'globohomo' )
dulapbot: (asciilifeform) 2020-02-15 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in 'let's drill in the deep sea' adventures : made a shot at enculturating nominally-smart folx in ru space. these ended up concluding : 1) 'qntra is paid by putin' 2) 'mp is paid by putin' 3) 'dirty liar, you've never been to usa, but stole the name of a harmless american crackpot' 4) various other lulz, will omit for brevity.
dulapbot: (asciilifeform) 2020-02-15 asciilifeform: fella whose site (maffs prof! currently in brazil) , didn't disappoint : 'qntra? a deeply kgbistic site. just look... or could be simpletons, pushing propaganda liquishit for putler for free...'
asciilifeform: highlight of the episode was where he concluded that asciilifeform was a full colonel in kgb, and top linguist there, or 'how else he could do this?' etc
phf[asciilifeform]: my favorite bit is that they took issue with you writing 123$ instead of $123 "aha! nobody living in u.s. would write it like the former!"
asciilifeform: was a++
asciilifeform: thing is, fella not least bit schizo, simply working from martian priors. he picked a satan for his pantheon, errything else followed.
phf[asciilifeform]: he's got an internally consistent ideology now, if you're russian and been exposed to russian culture, you're culturally infected and therefore always a vatnik. you can be allowed to participate in civilized discourse if you engage in shaming rituals and self-flagellation, but when
phf[asciilifeform]: you stop performing those, will rapidly degrade back to vatnik state
asciilifeform: tiphareth's philosophy, such as it is, not differs much from that of prev. generation of anti-su emigres (e.g. asciilifeform's father), where 'orcs are rotten, the only moral thing to do if yer an orc is to walk off to some other country and fughet yer an orc'
asciilifeform: ( from this pov, ukrs 'ideal orcs', to the degree that they collectively attempted this )
signpost[asciilifeform] met a russian expat liberal recently in meatspace. expounded The Science behind gender dysphoria within a few days of knowing.
asciilifeform: signpost: lolwat ?
signpost[asciilifeform]: set bozo bit and discarded. not surprising that these would leave.
signpost[asciilifeform]: just some dude, unimportant. was just entertained to encounter this flavor.
signpost[asciilifeform]: maybe he was pleading innocence of ukraine, like I give a shit. "No! I'm a good one! Would chop babies dicks off and everything!"
signpost[asciilifeform]: tech industry is almost entirely populated by scum, as is news to no one.
phf[asciilifeform]: signpost, it's a kind of natural orc bifurcation, "i wear my jacket /thus/ in the tradition of my people's lords" and "i wear my jacket /thus/ just like you civilized folk"
phf[asciilifeform]: but honestly i have no idea how that process works, it is probably right and proper and natural, and is mostly chosen at random based on random factors
asciilifeform: phf: 'xenopatriotism'(tm)
asciilifeform: well-studied subj.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bitdash.io/pest/2022-12-10#1018130 << near as can tell, the disease actually exists (was known to e.g. freud); the flimflam part would be the supposed cures (other than bullet)
bitbot[asciilifeform]: Logged on 2022-12-10 11:51:51 signpost: met a russian expat liberal recently in meatspace. expounded The Science behind gender dysphoria within a few days of knowing.
asciilifeform: ( if you think about it, what'd be involved in 'cure' for this makes e.g. general cure for cancer look trivial )
asciilifeform: soo as inescapably happens in case like this, the quacks, charlatans, got involved.
asciilifeform: same folx who prescribed hg for syphilis 100y ago.
awt[asciilifeform]: This is who the openai chatbot thinks asciilifeform is: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=y-sd
awt[asciilifeform]: Prompt: Write an inspiring speech in the voice of Hitler about AI: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=K5Te
asciilifeform: awt: lol!
asciilifeform: 'known for... his advocacy for alternative cryptocurrencies such as Decred and Monero. He is also the author of several open-source software projects, including the V patch series, which improves the security of the Unix operating system'
asciilifeform: who knew!
asciilifeform fondly remembers playing w/ shannonizers in '90s, but this is next level of lul