jfw: It'd be great to have a federated pool of such "full nodes" based on each operator's choice of signers; the present scheme doesn't quite get there as it does hash-only verification, leaving sig checking to the V presser. A trial press with comparison of flow to output manifest might make a good condition for automated patch import there.
jfw: although the priority on that optimization might go up if a V-enlightented Gales Linux starts pulling in gccs and kernels and such.
jfw: (the filtering by project, that is.)
diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/07/01/ossasepia-logs-for-Jul-2020/#1027925 - jfw, what would the current steps be if someone starts from 0 ie they go "I'll get a dedicated server for this, what is it going to take to have it running gales+jfw-bitcoin" ?
sonofawitch: 2020-07-17 05:42:41 (#ossasepia) jfw: for the problem of the manual drudgery presently involved in getting started as well as infecting new systems with jfw-bitcoin, or jfw-wares more generally, I'm thinking to use the perfectly good sync script I already have; you'll simply get *all* my patches then take your pick of what to press. I was trying to prematurely optimize by thinking it needed an option to filter for a specific project.
diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/07/01/ossasepia-logs-for-Jul-2020/#1027928 - as with all great things lately, it's more likely firmly in the camp of "if you make it, you'll have it"; but this aside for a moment, to the extent that you talk strictly of infrastructure what's the problem and otherwise if you talk of operators, well, the lack there is not going to be solved by better scripts or software in
diana_coman: general.
sonofawitch: 2020-07-17 06:09:29 (#ossasepia) jfw: It'd be great to have a federated pool of such "full nodes" based on each operator's choice of signers; the present scheme doesn't quite get there as it does hash-only verification, leaving sig checking to the V presser. A trial press with comparison of flow to output manifest might make a good condition for automated patch import there.
diana_coman: that being said and to the extent that I follow what you are saying there, the only rather puzzling part for me is why "v-starter" is it's in fact a "trb-starter" you seem to be aiming for?
diana_coman: danuker - how's it going with the reading around? do you need anything, do you have any questions?
diana_coman: danuker - btw, I looked through your blog, wanted to comment and ...couldn't, of course, because I'm not going to go through that disqus madness in order to ...talk to you, wtf.
diana_coman: fwiw, this tarpit of "will do static blog and then end up with disqus/similar for comments because there's no other solution" is the usual path indeed but for being usual it's still not going anywhere *useful*.
danuker: diana_coman: I have looked through your blog, I am not really sure what to do
diana_coman: danuker - how do you mean, what to do about what?
diana_coman: in general like that... whatever you do won't be lost time, as long as you do it properly, what.
danuker: diana_coman: I thought about rewriting the Bitcoin client, then I was thinking what language? and now I am reviewing programming languages
diana_coman: danuker - oh dear, that's the ...road to hell, lol
diana_coman: danuker - did you notice this article for instance: http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/29/a-basic-requirement-for-the-literate-introducing-of-new-tools/ ?
danuker: diana_coman: oh, so many long paragraphs, I did not notice it
danuker: diana_coman: in the mean time I worked on my map; I put it on hold while I was looking for a KMZ reader (for the "open" data from the government)
danuker: diana_coman: I need a project management tool
danuker: how do you guys organize your goals?
diana_coman: I get it that you want to contribute and you want to help and you want all the good and proper things indeed; but please, understand that this approach of "I'll just re-write this huge thing by myself and in my corner and then I'll come out with it and won't it be a huge help to everyone" is the very, very trodden path on which most youngsters end up ...lost; and old, sure.
diana_coman: nothing more though.
diana_coman: danuker - what did those long paragraphs hide /what is it you didn't notice as I don't quite follow that sentence?
danuker: diana_coman: I mean, I don't want to read it right now, since it will take time
diana_coman: ah, you don't have to read it *right now*, no, lolz; I was curious whether you found it already, mainly because it might help you to digest it before you invest whatever hours/months into "developing this shiny new thing" ; this approach btw already has a name around here, it's called "man-aloning" ; it has a history too and many, many stories - they all end up badly for the main character!
diana_coman: danuker - re "project management tool" dunno what you have in mind exactly; I suppose I use.... V; other than that, some awk scripts for time management, though it's more like periodic reviews now as hm, I'm rather ...settled, let's say.
diana_coman: you will likely notice around here a preference for ...fewer, smaller and more useful tools really, rather than "more tools, yeee"
diana_coman: danuker - if you really wonder "where to start from", I'd say start by looking at V and then probably some of jfw's stuff if you are totally focused on bitcoin-part
diana_coman: he's around to ask for help too if you get stuck, he has quite a few things published, it's way, way better to start by trying to figure out *through use and reading* what IS there and what people are doing, than by re-writing anything, really
danuker: diana_coman: I will try to avoid too much "man-aloning"; thanks for the heads-up
diana_coman: you're welcome; and speak up/ask whenever stuck/in doubt/in need of bouncing some ideas off someone; people around here quite know what they are talking about.
jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/07/01/ossasepia-logs-for-Jul-2020/#1027931 - that'd be a fairly lengthy list that I don't have available atm; starting from 0 you'd need to establish that your hardware is supported and create or ask nicely for a kernel config
sonofawitch: 2020-07-17 20:36:46 (#ossasepia) diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/07/01/ossasepia-logs-for-Jul-2020/#1027925 - jfw, what would the current steps be if someone starts from 0 ie they go "I'll get a dedicated server for this, what is it going to take to have it running gales+jfw-bitcoin" ?
diana_coman: jfw - do you have a list of supported hardware ie somewhere for the operator to go and look? or at least one relatively common/easily available config that one can find with hosters?
jfw: what do you mean by "with hosters"?
jfw: but no I haven't presently published kernel configurations.
jfw: they are made available to customers with purchase of hardware, for which we presently have the Thinkpad x200 option and are working on an APU one.
diana_coman: jfw - by configuration I meant hardware, not the kernel config as such; now though I get the impression that this is getting basically split between some conflicting aims there and possibly some not-yet-fully-clear strategy otherwise, hm.
danuker: jfw: I would not trust a pre-installed system
jfw: hi danuker. Indeed my Gales Linux distribution is rather unique in how little trust it demands; you can bootstrap it fully from source from a variety of unix-like starting systems.
diana_coman: danuker - he means from his and dorion's business jwrd; it's not as such "pre-installed", no; maybe read eg about what jwrd does
danuker: hi jfw :) sorry for butting in without knowing what you're talking about
diana_coman: and about gales itself I guess, though I thought you had already got to that, lol.
jfw: danuker: no worries and as diana_coman says feel free to ask things.
diana_coman: jfw - to roll this back and get somewhere before I need to go as it's not that long today: is it correct to say that you are aiming there for a trb-starter rather than a v-starter as such? (sure, it includes V, of course)
jfw: diana_coman: a common config with plenty of hosters that's known to work is of course VPS, lol
diana_coman: jfw lol
diana_coman: are you now suggesting to run trb on a vps?
jfw: no, but hey, if you want "known to work" it's there
diana_coman: eh; forget about that part, it's clearly too big a jump and it doesn't yet make sense to you, let it be.
jfw: alright. I see what I'm going for as a V starter in the sense of V as a system including the software using it and a means of obtaining that, of which TRB is one of the more patch-heavy examples.
diana_coman: the issue there is that trb is *also* the ...least-mandatory part otherwise, lol
diana_coman: ie I would get it if it were gales the patch-heavy example, seeing how it is an OS, but...why trb, I have no idea.
diana_coman: this being said, you can of course package and name anything anyway you like, what's there to stop you.
jfw: because "given a working OS, how to get TRB / gbw ?" was a pain point as illustrated by http://dorion-mode.com/2020/07/gbw-node-gales-bitcoin-wallet-node-verified-acquisition-build-install-and-run-in-21ish-short-simple-steps/
jfw: Gales, while not in V form as we've discussed, already had an automated download process for all the necessary sources.
diana_coman: jfw - so exactly being "how to get trb/gbw" , it is therefore a ...trb/gbw starter, that's all.
jfw: diana_coman: if I then publish more things it becomes applicable to, does it then change to a trb+gbw+other_things starter, without my even touching it?
diana_coman: in other words: there isn't anything particularly wrong that I can see with the idea of "will package existing script and make the whole a best fit for the task at hand", that's fine; it just isn't more than that though and if there is indeed a longer term strategy of which this is a part it's not clear, nor does it seem to fit such thing, that's about it all.
diana_coman: jfw - so it's basically jfwsoftware-starter, pretty much.
diana_coman: nothing wrong with that.
diana_coman: I have to go, can pick it up back tomorrow if there's more.
jfw: alright see ya.
jfw: + thanks for the questions.
danuker: jfw: do you know about the Glacier protocol?
jfw: danuker: haven't heard of it, no
danuker: I think you should look at it; they use QR codes instead of an Optical Data Diode; perhaps you could do the same in your process
jfw: heh, what distinction do you draw there?
jfw: I mean, is a QR code not a one-way low-bandwidth optical channel?
danuker: well, yes it is
danuker: lol
danuker: I suppose with a diode you could sign chat messages realtime, instead of requiring the user to scan
danuker: so the diode would be higher-bandwidth
danuker: also, they use dice instead of the $500 TRNG
danuker: but again, lower bandwidth
danuker: depends on what your clients want
jfw: dice certainly work if used properly but um... need rather a lot of patience.
danuker: wow, 62 six-sided dice
jfw: and *sigh* it was originally a ~$35 TRNG; vendor closed but the schematics are there waiting for someone to step up and make more
danuker: wow
jfw: also re qr codes - the scanning especially requires substantially more complex hardware + software compared to a UART based optoisolator. For secure systems especially one wants to keep things simple. That said, it's probably not that big a deal unless you're scanning with some non-dedicated usb webcam or phone or such horrors.
jfw: mircea_popescu was known for airgapping by slavegirls manually typing base64
danuker: lol
danuker: I understand. You'd need webcam drivers, yes
jfw: danuker: I gotta run but am usually online 7pm UTC per diana_coman's schedule.
danuker: see ya!