jfw: so Panama's escalated from closing the border for non-residents, to curfew, to now suspending all passenger flights starting Sunday night, "for 30 days".
dorion: we've been looking at flights, considering our options.
jfw: I have no idea which place is the frying pan and which is the fire, or how that changes over days, weeks, months; but what I know is we're not as well established & connected here as we ought to be, have no place to go outside the city, whereas back in the "mainland" have more options
jfw: to be clearer, our thinking is to hole up with family in USA, until this blows over at least as far as travel restrictions - and if it doesn't, Panama just isn't the place I'd rather be.
jfw: We can continue with the business development, in fact one of the better current prospects is there, and meeting people is getting harder here.
dorion: right now we're in the middle of a 1.5M+ city with a lot of poverty. portland, me is ~70k and my town in vt is ~20k. I have a lot more guns in vt, lol.
dorion: some of the poorer neighborhoods are putting in check points during the day.
dorion: have to have docs (including proof of address) and reason to be in the street.
dorion: kyc/aml on j-walkers, lol.
jfw: diana_coman: the question in here is basically, do you have advice for the situation or how to better evaluate it, or any particular caution against hopping on the ~next plane which is our present strong inclination.
dorion: there's also screening at port of entry in usia and self-quarantine for 2 weeks if negative. couldn't get a straight answer if positive, but doubt we'd have much choice.
jfw: "self-quarantine" apparently means promise to stay home and stay in touch with a doctor.
diana_coman: jfw, dorion huh, and when I was asking if those wealthy actual investors are really there, you were convinced they were and it's just hard to get to touch their wot at all; re evaluation, given that it's quite late, it's a matter of what options do you really have now so I can't really tell from here
diana_coman: at any rate, if you don't see any reason to stay there, then at least that part is clear; whether then you still have any other option re destination than going back home is a separate thing.
dorion: diana_coman thanks. for now, we want to be here long term and plan to come back as soon as we could, 30 days best case scenario.
dorion: panama may be handling this better than us, we'd been making preparations to stay here, but hadn't been paying too much mind. got more real with this restriction. have to decide in next 12 hrs or so what the next 30+ days will look like.
diana_coman: dorion: whichever option you go, I doubt it will be "30 days only"
dorion: right.
diana_coman: panama is also not only panama-city perhaps but again - I have no idea there.
diana_coman: ie if your problem is the huge town of idiots and so on, just get out of their way
diana_coman: since well, there isn't much else you can currently do, as far as I understand
diana_coman: I suppose by this stage you should think also re internet connectivity and basic stuff in there
dorion: word on the street is they're going to start locking down movement in the city soon. not sure if that will happen or how long it'll last.
diana_coman: dorion: the trouble is more - what are your options in the town if/when a. lock downs/whatever similars b. breakdowns & shortages?
dorion: diana_coman there wouldn't be many.
jfw: depends how bad or protracted the breakdowns. In a way the place is adapted to them, but to a limited degree
jfw: like there's multiple internet providers, my building has a full backup generator - but if fuel shortage?
jfw: I don't know that the country would be better for internet though.
diana_coman: jfw: it's probably not by itself, no; the question is if you have more options to make it better for yourself there in such situation; again, kind of really late now but well, can't go back in time either
diana_coman: conversely, I suppose - what't the worst case scenario you see if you decide to hop on the next plane now?
jfw: yeah, I at least was caught in large part off guard.
diana_coman: dorion, jfw re evaluation - a. what are the real options you can take currently b. what's the worst case scenario in each c. make a decision quickly because time is running out and then go for that decision 100%
jfw: re worst case - seems like it'd be if the breakdowns or state controls get just as bad in the US, and we lost what resources we'd set up here
dorion: I have more options in vt in the short term once I get there.
diana_coman: dunno, you 2 think it through but again *worst* case scenarios and I'd say mid to long term, not short term only.
dorion: alright, thanks diana_coman
diana_coman: I guess panama might have a weaker state perhaps
dorion: for sure
diana_coman: also, not sure, aren't there a lot others you can bring together?
dorion: weaker state, smaller population, more docile.
diana_coman: ie maybe look at what you can make out of it, since you are there
diana_coman: this goes into the a. what are the options
diana_coman: tbh I personally would not go to the us but then again, I wouldn't really go to panama-city either, so not of much help there.
dorion: diana_coman jfw said you may say that.
dorion: lol.
diana_coman: heh, yeah, I'm not surprised he did.
jfw: then there's panama-country of "run-down shacks posing as hostels" fame
diana_coman: jfw: sure; the point is that you need however way less resources there to make your life way better, that's the thing
diana_coman: it's not about going "because it's good" but going because "I have more levarage to make it what I want it "
diana_coman: well, if you do & want it, that is.
diana_coman: leverage*
jfw: as in, cost of land, thus construction, thus rent?
jfw: more freedom to use the land too
dorion: jfw there's way less competition and way weaker state here.
diana_coman: jfw: that's just to scratch the surface but from there on, yes; more space, probably your money goes further too because less of it around otherwise etc; anyways, I need to go away now, I'll be back in around 1 hour
jfw: alright thanks diana_coman.
dorion: thanks diana_coman
diana_coman will be around
dorion: diana_coman we'll be getting on the plane to regroup. the plan is to close the client in vermont, continue developing contacts here while we're away and return as soon as they permit residents again.
diana_coman: dorion: ok; good luck!
dorion: diana_coman thank you! will keep you posted.
BingoBoingo: And the new thing's online http://mvdstandard.net/ I'll be running some errands today, taking Spanish class, and hammering out a blog post introducing it where I take a bit from the plans I'd been drafting adapted to the rather uncertain landscape on the other side of present herd stampede.
whaack: jfw and dorion: godspeed
jfw: ty whaack. That remote location you got may have its plusses; how are the supply lines holding out there?
whaack: jfw: The super market in Santa Cruz was ~full and operations seem to be normal. Billymg reported that the big supermarket in Tamarindo (the more touristy town closer to the airport) has guards permitting only one person-per-family into the store at a time
jfw: that old "safety in crowds" again right?
whaack: I provisioned for 1-2 months of food after reading your article, although looking at my cabinets I'm not sure what's worse: death or eating what I purchased for 1-2 months straight (nuts, beans, rice, pastas, ramen)
whaack: jfw: ah sorry, i meant the shelves in the super market were full
jfw: I figured, yeah, and meant the bigger place is the one seeing more controls.
jfw: I hear hunger works wonders for these kinds of uncertainties
BingoBoingo: whaack: No fishing pole?
whaack: BingoBoingo: I was about to say, I need to get fishing gear.
whaack: People often fish right where I live
diana_coman: hello cruciform , what brings you here?
cruciform: Hi! I'm interested in your Young Hands program
diana_coman: cruciform: why and how does that interest you?
diana_coman: I know you've been around a bit since at least 2017, haven't you?
diana_coman: enthdegree: are you around at all?
diana_coman: cruciform: don't be shy and don't get stuck, it's a question not a gun.
enthdegree: Diana yes although I am extremely busy with work things
enthdegree: Will be around more this weekend
cruciform: Yea: I've read ~a year of trilema logs (June 2017-June 2018); I'd like to learn how to use a computer - programming, trb; that sort of thing
diana_coman: enthdegree: ok, this weekend then.
diana_coman: cruciform: well, jfw and dorion give that sort of lessons really; my YH is with a rather different scope as such.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-29 16:25:39 diana_coman: oh my, if I ever start "developing programmers" do me a favour and shoot me.
jfw: diana_coman: travel prep is going fine so far here but got more running around town to do before evening. I can't promise that review today but won't rule it out either.
diana_coman: jfw: eh, don't worry about the review now, you've got the travel prep to do properly; do that review when you are back home, what.
diana_coman: cruciform: what do you do otherwise?
cruciform: I play poker professionally
jfw: diana_coman: ok, will do.
diana_coman: huh, that sounds familiar for some reason.
diana_coman: cruciform: and why do you want to switch from that to ...programming, anyway/
diana_coman: ?
diana_coman: but seriously, for getting to grips with what you seem to want ie more re keeping your own bitcoins, just talk to jfw and dorion, possibly after they are back at some settled point I guess.
cruciform: possibly from here? http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2017-09-01#1709423
ossabot: (trilema) 2017-09-01 mircea_popescu: Barbarossa_ write it up sometime, with pics and everything, i'd read. got a blog ?
diana_coman: cruciform: right you are, it's from there indeed.
diana_coman: I was just typing to ask if you are in the uk, lo
cruciform: That was me under a different alias, before I got gpg working
cruciform: Well, as much fun as looking-at-cards-and-hoping-they're-good is, I'd like to do something more productive
diana_coman: cruciform: well, what's stopping you on doing something productive?
cruciform: Also, "my" BTC are currently handled by programs I don't understand, which I'd like to change
cruciform: Nothing at all; I'd just like to as productive as possible - not learn the wrong stuff
cruciform: *be
cruciform: For example, not sure if a syllabus something like this http://blog.esthlos.com/towards-a-computer-science-education/comment-page-1/ is appropriate
diana_coman: cruciform: wanting to understand and to be productive sound all reasonable and fine, no problem there; how do those square with the 3 years since 2017?
diana_coman wonders if esthlos will pop back in too at some point.
cruciform: Strangely; I can distinctly recall having my headfucked while reading the logs full-time a few years ago, then... going back to work and reading the odd trilema article now and then.
diana_coman: cruciform: jwrd has a curriculum in place and the materials and everything else; so dunno, if you really are after learning the right thing + quick & productive, that IS currently the best option; if however you mean you are looking for something else on whatever coordinates (dunno - no payment?), then fine, but it's something else.
diana_coman: cruciform: lol, so what happened /how come you got back in exactly now anyway?
diana_coman: whaack: did you get in the end any actual results at all?
cruciform: I've been reading trilema more recently; remembered this is where the cool people are - I'd like to be like 'em
cruciform: I don't really know how it is that I read a year of logs, then sorta-kinda went back to the day job for a while
cruciform: I'm not concerned with payment/an income stream via compsci/programming at the moment, if that's what you mean?
diana_coman: well, #trilema & tmsr closed down and very recently at that; people are still what they have always been but time matters too.
diana_coman: cruciform: what I mean is that jwrd offer for a fee the sort of lessons you say you want so you should talk to them about that.
diana_coman: cruciform: do you mind saying how old are you
diana_coman: ?
cruciform: 31
diana_coman: thanks; where about in the uk are you anyway?
cruciform: Gotcha; I realise I'm late to the party - I suppose I'm saying that I'm ready to stop dithering/beating round the bush
cruciform: Croydon
diana_coman: cruciform: london, ugh.
diana_coman: or dunno, maybe congrats? lolz
cruciform: yes - I was gonna move this month, but the plague etc
cruciform: no, I despise London, too
diana_coman: you know, I lost track of *how many* kept going on about how they despise London - while they came & stayed exactly there.
cruciform: Isn't intertia a law of nature?
diana_coman: perhaps my earlier I won't ask people for stuff anymore doesn't make the full picture clear but let me state plainly another part that comes with that - I won't take "saying that" for anything at all either and the yh application process is not going to be an exception from that either.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-19 10:21:24 diana_coman: trinque: so why not *ask*, man? how the fuck am I supposed to guess what you read in it/can't read in it? I meant specifically that I won't ask people for stuff.
diana_coman: cruciform: are you saying there that "inertia made me do it"
diana_coman: ?
cruciform: With regard to being in London despite hating it, no: I've needed to be here for work. In terms of why I've been read-only for the past 3 years, I don't know
diana_coman: heh, that's pretty much how it goes, indeed; "despise it" "but!! money!!" lolz.
cruciform: That's the strange thing: I didn't need the money
diana_coman: anyways, nothing wrong with not knowing re the other bit - congrats on discovering the unknown!
diana_coman: nobody said there "need it"; just "money", yeah
diana_coman: cruciform: where did you come from, before despising london from within?
cruciform: I grew up in Surrey; went to London for medschool
diana_coman: ahahah, didn't know medschool was the qualification for professional poker.
diana_coman: did you finish medschool?
cruciform: dropping out improves the odds, so to speak ;)
diana_coman: aha, lol
diana_coman: cruciform: did you read around the yh site?
cruciform: I've read a few weekly agenda posts of students - seeing their productivity was one of the reasons I wanted to get involved
cruciform: And the charter, of course http://younghands.club/
diana_coman: once I finish the review, I'll set the exact shape of that moving forwards too & get around to update everything here and there, as appropriate; meanwhile though, and as per earlier more relaxed requirements, I guess I'll open up an applicants category so that people have a space to do something that might indeed serve as "I'm interested" and back up their application.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-19 05:02:56 diana_coman: so meanwhile consider the requirements slightly relaxed and take advantage of the situation while it lasts.
diana_coman: cruciform: but to reiterate, specifically re btc, trb, programming, computers as such, from my point of view there are dorion and jfw covering that and I have no desire whatsoever to give lessons in it too.
diana_coman: jwrd is their venture.
cruciform: Your "...focus is on killing stupidity on sight, not on protecting egos, feelings, inner idjits and other unhelpful constructions."?
diana_coman: cruciform: what's with that?
diana_coman: that remains, sure.
cruciform: ie. that's why you run YH; not compsci tuition, per se
whaack: diana_coman: I have logs I'm sitting on to organize and publish, but in terms of work this week no - I have ~nothing to show so far. I've been in constant failure mode this week. I've been spinning and generally feeling sorry for myself. It is pathetic, and I need to snap out of it. Amongst the few things that have gotten me down lately, yesterday Catalonia left me.
diana_coman: cruciform: here's the description of YH & #o as seen from the inside, might help I guess. (Because #ossasepia is part of YH project, yes.)
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-19 16:40:13 dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-19#1022347 - I see it more as you're interested in creating relationships and helping pe
diana_coman: whaack: ahaha, don't cry for me catalonia/
diana_coman: but seriously, wasn't ...hm, expected?
diana_coman: whaack: anyways, why so sorry for yourself? sun,surf,stocked supermarkets, fish to fish, fruit to pick, what's so terrible?
cruciform: diana_coman, I'd love to create relationships, and get more effective in achieving my goals
diana_coman: cruciform: well, the question there is not "would you love that?" but always "how much are you willing to work for that?" And as per above, the spoken answer won't be enough by itself, that's all.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-20 16:50:58 diana_coman: perhaps my earlier I won't ask people for stuff anymore doesn't make the full picture clear but let me state plainly another part that comes with that - I won't take "saying that" for anything at all either and the yh application process is not going to be an exception from that either.
diana_coman: cruciform: do you have a blog of your own?
cruciform: I had one hosted by Pizarro; not at the moment
cruciform: I'll see if alf is interested in hosting one for me
diana_coman: cruciform: do you plan to get yourself one? or do you want to inaugurate the new YH category of ...hm, maybe hopefuls, I guess
diana_coman: understand that no, I won't take anyone in just through an interview anymore, that window is closed.
whaack: diana_coman: Last week I was focused on those great aspects of where I am, but enjoying surfing and picking fruit makes me feel like a "happy idiot" and I'd rather get my happiness from another source = i.e. achievement. But when I sit at my desk and begin to work my mind goes elsewhere.
cruciform: diana_coman, what are the requirements for entry?
diana_coman: cruciform: entry where?
diana_coman: cruciform: the "process" itself remains the same in the sense that it's still this.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-16 16:28:16 diana_coman: dorion: the "application process" is very simple: 1. you figure out if you want in 2. if yes, you say it and then I figure out if I want you on
cruciform: into the YH community - isn't that what you meant when you said an interview isn't enough?
diana_coman: cruciform: see above, does that answer your question?
cruciform: Ok; I'll read more logs and be back tomorrow evening - thanks for the referrals!
diana_coman: cruciform: no problem.
cruciform: diana_coman, yes, that makes sense
diana_coman: whaack: lol; does the mind do anything where it goes, at least? if it really is processing something, might as well then sit and process until done.
diana_coman will be back tomorrow.
whaack: diana_coman: No, I think it really is just stalling.