Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
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whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I messaged every business near me (there were 8) that was listed on coinmap.org. WTI: Make sure to iterate through thoroughly even when things look hopeless. B: I am a little disorganized with TheFleet. It is deployed but certain parts of the code could be cleaned. I'm connected to some networks on 1 VM
whaack: some other networks on another. I have all the info written down but I am worried I am building a house of cards for myself. WTI: Ask for organizational help.
whaack: jfw: hey, nice!
whaack: I attempted to connect to 145 networks tonight. As of now I am connected and actively logging 100/145.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-20 23:45:44 jfw: And the Scheme wallet spits out babby's first signed raw transaction.
diana_coman: whaack: what are "goals" for you when writing?
diana_coman: whaack: what's missing in there is the underlying tree structure of the reasoning you are trying to write down; more fundamentally, until and unless you approach writing as what it should be - aka an exercise in *thinking and reflection* - rather than a "text production" process, you'll keep ending up with ...
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-02 17:13:46 diana_coman: dorion: how about those steps: aim first for a minimal tree with the root tmsr-os itself, see what you get on that, include branches on environment as much as you consider relevant
diana_coman: ... infuriating drivel really, by necessity.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-20#1018956 - nice! I will get today to that article too, only a bit later.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-20 15:39:16 diana_coman: spyked: comment in your modq
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: ty, digesting
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: what's your background actually?
diana_coman: I vaguely know you have a degree in something humanities-related (librarian?) but that's about it
diana_coman: and although you seemed totally fine with hardware and routers and the sort, there's weird going on re programming.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Majored in philosophy with minors in mathematics and economics as an undergrad at Mckendree College in Lebanon, Illinois. Did two years of graduate coursework in philosophy at SIU with the second year mostly spent looking for an exit from the insane environment. Ended up getting a Master's in Library Science from the University of Missouri.
BingoBoingo: I did take two introductory computer science courses as an undergrad that consisted of MS Visual C++ that culminated in Object Orientation
diana_coman: well, could have been possibly worse - excel.
diana_coman: (who the fuck comes up with names like Lebanon, Illinois; boggles the mind).
BingoBoingo: It's what they did in the in the early 19th Century, recycling place names.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: what does "graduate coursework" mean?
diana_coman: well, previously there was at least the decency of adding "new" (as in new york, new england, new fuck)
diana_coman: but this sort of "we'll make our local Lebanon" is something else; (then again, I suddenly recall there was some new-money-romanian in the '90s who made his "Eiffel tower" in the middle of the nowhere plains; perhaps it's just lucky that Romania is way smaller so even the nowhere plains are not that big).
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I went in with the idea I'd get a Phd took classes, was a teaching assistant for some intro to logic sections.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: ah, I see; and what/why the environment insane /more insane than you knew it as a student?
diana_coman: you know, philosophy, mathematics, economics, library and a sprinkle of practical computer science sounds even not bad at all on the face of it.
BingoBoingo: Taking in my fellow students at various stages of that journey, I came to realize that studying philosophy in Southern Illinois was at dead end. The department there had a fascination with "American Philosophers" which for them meant John Dewey, and I found Dewey's "History will end in Hugging" to be...
BingoBoingo: Just wtf
diana_coman: ahahaha
BingoBoingo: Everything before 1910 was treated as "History of Philosophy" in the courses, and the treatments were... glib
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: but dunno, why not look further afield then? and I do mean - outside the US, what.
diana_coman: I don't think the US has *ever* had any sort of reputation in Philosophy, whether Illinois or Washington makes little difference from where I see it.
BingoBoingo: Right, but I was at the time stuck hard in that bubble that comes with growing up in the zone without quite seeing it for what it is.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: what's that bubble, anyway?
diana_coman: as in "there's nothing outside" ?
diana_coman: or "there is no outside" ?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: The one where the US is the biggest, richest, etc while the outside is old and talks funny.
diana_coman: heh, philosophy is generally speaking exactly old and talking funny :D
diana_coman: so yeah, the "there's nothing outside", ok.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: was that Master's in Library Science better/worse/same?
BingoBoingo: Looking back, I left high school with far less cognitive dissonance stuck in my head than when I left US University.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: do you mean that as "highschool was less fucked" ? because it can equally well be just a matter of age really.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: The Master's in library science was different in that it actually graduated people. It was a swing to a different insane extreme.
diana_coman: ha; what's that new insane extreme?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: The coursework never challenged. It was light. Classes introduced this as "this is what this does" without pushing into the how, or why. Most classes actually met, in person with great infrequency due to being "hybrid online"
BingoBoingo at the time felt I was learning more in my grad assistant gig sitting in on Pharmacy School lectures
diana_coman: ah, the watered down, degree shopfloor, aha; tbf the "library science" title is saying it all already, indeed.
diana_coman: sadly it's not any extreme though, there's always more space downwards, as it pretty much *has to be*.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: was that highschool in a small/big/medium town/village/what?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: In a town of ~10,000 in a location that puts it in an odd state of being a far suburb that's also a hub for the more rural areas.
BingoBoingo: The library science program I took actually managed to lose accreditation in 2015.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: so what did you do after that library science escape from bad to worse?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I applied at a lot of libraries, I drank a lot of vodka, I looked for remote work opportunites online, drank some more, and imagined alt-histories where I had the sense to take enough biology and chemistry courses as an undergrad to do pharmacy school
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: why not actually (trying to, at least) go for that pharmacy school ?
diana_coman: is that where the vodka started?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: It started to get really bad inside library school. I was incredibly bored.
diana_coman: I can quite imagine the boredom, certainly.
BingoBoingo: I left highschool bright, but ignorant. I left university dull and broken.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: eh, do realise you can never leave yourself though so might as well take charge and aim quite purposefully for what you want exactly, outside be damned and all that.
BingoBoingo: Well, looking for remote work brought me to looking at Bitcoin, and then came the dreams of "This might be the only thing with enough upside to climb out of this hole"
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: why did you leave the US anyway? (I know how it happened aka isp-need etc but that's not as much a reason as an opportunity you took - and good for you that you did, for sure)
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: so what would you say "this hole" is/was?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Well, all that time in US university built a rather substantial pile of debt. The pile from undergrad wasn't so much, but the grad school pile...
diana_coman: ahh, right.
diana_coman: I had forgotten that socialist accomplishment in mass-scamming, indeed.
diana_coman managed to get mostly paid for being in academia, even as a student.
BingoBoingo let a chumpatron of the worst sort eat me.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: how did you end up in/find tmsr (proto or whatevers) ?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Late 2012 I started exploring Bitcoin at the margins. Sometime in 2013 hanbot invited me to visit #bitcoin-assets. The first few months I'd stopped by infrequently, but by sometime in 2014 I'd become swept up into it.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: and then? what would be a summary timeline of your actions within, as you see it?
BingoBoingo: My recollection of the period between 2012 and 2015 isn't of very high resolution, but I started the blog in the second half of 2013. When cazalla got the offer to start a sort of news site in 2014, I offered to help him out with it thinking that having 2 folks would assist in preventing burnout. After cazalla left in 2015, I kept the thing going.
BingoBoingo: Late October 2015 I started on a stretch of sobriety that lasted through my first month or two in Uruguay. When Qntra and so many other TMSR servers went offline in 2017 and with everyone else resisting the need to address the ISP project, I decided to give it a try if only to get Qntra back online. I had so thoroughly let my identity attach to doing Qntra, that I thought I could somehow learn enough as I go while managing to keep
BingoBoingo: both things afloat.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: fwiw that might be what saved you anyway, regardless ofthe pizarro failure otherwise.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: 1. still sober or not? 2. still identity attached to Qntra or not?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I'm sober today, 24 hours at a time.
diana_coman: good, keep that up for sure.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: As far as identity attached to Qntra or not, I would like it to be. On the other hand I have to accept that without improving and accomplishing things, I'm rando mcnobody with a long string of failures.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: so count the long string of learning from failures rather than the fails; with both the isp and qntra though, the part that sticks out most as "must learn" is to aim for growth and for life, not for "keeping alive with an oxygen mask".
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: and there's this rather troublesome direction of the attachment - I'd see it attaching Qntra to self rather than the other way around
diana_coman: this is also why I was noting earlier that the what you like is weirdly missing from the picture almost entirely.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 18:10:48 diana_coman: BingoBoingo: you know, that's actually an interesting bit - I can almost say more about what you do NOT like than I can say about what you DO like; and the trouble with not-likes is that they are indeed not productive by nature; they can work as a sort of productive only once-removed (aka destroy/clear up/make space/maybe even motivate others to rebuild but not directly).
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: you know, you dug yourself out of several holes already and you brought others with you too with Qntra and moreover, you did carve your way in a different country and a foreign language and all that so there is quite clear evidence that you CAN do a lot - if you actually aim purposefully for clear doings though and don't get sidetracked/daydreaming/whatever it is that ends up eating you into passive "keep alive" mode.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: so I'll ask again explicitly - what is it that you actually want to do as your own?
BingoBoingo: I want to do harm to the system I grew up in for as long as I can.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: could work quite well actually so hold on to that then; (/me would add "as much as I can" but that's... me)
BingoBoingo: It doesn't seem a very healthy want, but it is the most concrete want I have right now.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: eh, there's nothing better than proper hate to get one out of a deep hole.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: so, through what means are you going to do that?
BingoBoingo: Well, grasping what I want, it occurs to me that since 2017 I've been using Qntra to vent hate without much looking into whether I'm actually doing harm. I need to improve my tools for making the distinction between doing hard and simply venting.
diana_coman: aha; quite a difference between venting and attacking, yeah.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: so if I understand it correctly, you do see Qntra as your main tool and focus, right?
BingoBoingo: I'm going to eat awk and regex until I get sick, and then I'm going to eat it some more because I need these tools to help make the distinction.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I do indeed.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: all right; do realise though that yes, you need sharping but so does Qntra if it's to serve properly and what/if it becomes depends currently quite entirely on what you *do*.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: whether you like it or not, you *are* effectively qntra's manager as well as editor in chief (and apparently CTO too) and so you really need to start wearing all those hats properly, you can't just wear the one you are most used to.
diana_coman: you can however ask for help with whatever you need - just ask intelligently.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Thank you for asking these questions, because in the high noise low results era of the Republic... organizing myself in this way... slipped through th cracks.
diana_coman: you're welcome; you know, I meant that exactly as said, so I'm glad if I could help.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-15 13:50:00 diana_coman: BingoBoingo: all right; fwiw I fully appreciate your salvaging of hardware and data + the work to help people recover/get back online and if I didn't say anything so far is just because I knew you were busy and focused on this; but if there's any help you need, just speak up.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: now back to here and #o - considering all the above as well, do you want yh access?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Considering all of the above, I do want it.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: all right, then you've got it and I will hold you up to the same standard as for everyone else; I'll set you up by the end of the week anyway and I hope you'll make the most use of it.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Thank you for the opportunity.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: yw; for now see to that comment and otherwise as background/longer term, do think of a proper strategy & plan for qntra, short, medium and long-term (that's your management hat).
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I will get to work.
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: ah, also, mind just using your own photo already? wtf do you need someone else's (be it even the only ~philosopher the US produced) as your profile pic?
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I will repair that today
BingoBoingo also has Spanish class contending for my time this afternoon, but addressing the comment, fixing the profile picture, and getting a start on drafting short, medium, and long term plans can all be done before bed.
diana_coman: cool, sounds like the best sort of busy day really so good luck!
BingoBoingo: I'm thankful for the clarity.
whaack: diana_coman: My goal when writing in general is to coherently display what is in my head. The "goals" in the outline was picking out what I want to display for this specific article.
whaack: I understand that writing is an exercise in thinking and reflection. But perhaps my problem is that I am focusing on the question "how am I going to present these thoughts?" instead of "how can I organize my thoughts for myself?". If I can answer the latter properly then the answer to the former will follow.
whaack: Changing my outlines to a tree structure instead of the rigid grade school topic/concluding + body paragraphs is a good start.
diana_coman: whaack: yes! and moreover, your aim should always be to *figure things out*, not to say this or that; ie you should be searching for the truth whatever it might be (and whatever existing belief/comfort it might require shattered in the process)
diana_coman: so you should have a topic, sure; and a scope, indeed; but not a goal of the moralist kind "now we shall prove this theory"
diana_coman: it is more of the sort "here I am thinking on THIS topic"
diana_coman: sure, once and AFTER you get THAT part well, you will indeed be in a position to pick and choose further refinements essentially and you'll have the capacity to choose the style and so on; but that's way, way further up that mountain.
whaack: right, otherwise I'm putting lipstick on a pig.
diana_coman: quite.
whaack: On another topic, I have some questions regarding what to do next with TheFleet
whaack: Last night the two armadas (armada = a set of bots all connected on 1 VM) logged 400,000+ lines and counting. There are 45 other networks that I was able to connect to and get their channel limits that my bots disconnected from for one reason or another. There are also probably 25-200 more networks that I could potentially log, but I was unable to get a list of channels from them.
whaack: The code for TheFleet could be cleaned up. It may have been a mistake to send out the bots without giving the code more proofreads and revisions. I released it to meet my schedule / begin a rotation and because I believe I have a good grasp of what's going on + I tested everything and it looks like everything is working.
diana_coman: whaack: well, on one hand the "meet my schedule" is not a good reason for anything (other than shooting yourself in the foot); that aside though - why do you think it might be a mistake?
whaack: I think it may be a mistake because if I say I logged X channels for Y days I want to have the absolute highest confidence possible that I was indeed logging those channels. And if there are unecessary components / complexity in the code that's logging the channels then I cannot have that "highest confidence possible"
diana_coman: whaack: uhm, that sounds well intended but quite confused; let's clear it up: you want more confidence in the claims you make as a result of running some code- this part is as it should be, indeed; you consider that unecessary components/complexity in the code are certainly in the way of having confidence in that code - while true as such, this is also 1. jumping some intermediate steps in the very statement so that it's ...
diana_coman: ... clearly..unclear 2. further making a jump from the original "want to have confidence in my claim"
diana_coman: for 1. confidence in your code doesn't come *directly* from little complexity; there can be as little complexity as one wishes - if you don't fully grasp what's going on, you'll still lack confidence; confidence is after all saying something about *your understanding*, not about the code.
diana_coman: sure, less complexity makes it *easier* to understand it and grasp it; it still doesn't do anything by itself nor is it like that a hard prerequisite for having confidence.
diana_coman: for 2. if you want to have confidence in a claim, you'd usually look to a. monitor rather than trust b. triangulate information that supports whatever claim you make (this includes making sure there is what to triangulate, ofc but that supposedly comes from a)
whaack: Okay. For example I have a set of functions that I use to probe what's going on, some of which I no longer use. I guess having some of those still lying around is not so bad since they don't add much to the complexity (they don't interweave with the normal operations of thefleet)
diana_coman: c. (if needed, not always) have some redundancy
diana_coman: whaack: well, do they muddle up your understanding of what actually happens? no? then why would they lower your confidence in your own claim?
diana_coman: sure, it's not ideal code, not even good looking code and all that; but that's a *different* consideration, you can't muddle things up like this.
whaack: I see, yes I was confusing two separate problems
diana_coman: "I am running this ugly code that I fully own however" is different from "I am running this code I found and uhm, I kind of hope it does X and moreover I fervently hope it doesn't do something worse either!!"
whaack: lol
diana_coman: lol as you wish but there's plenty of such lol around, heh.
whaack: well i have the latter mentality with my os
whaack: ok so with that distinction between clean code and understanding / having confidence in the code, I daresay I have a reasonable amount of confidence in thefleet's source and so while I'll review the codebase again a couple of times over I'll keep in mind that my goal is to make sure I understand what's going on + that the code is achieving my ends, rather than cleaning up the code for the sake of
whaack: having "clean code"
diana_coman: whaack: indeed; obviously, as you go and if/when you see what to cut away as unnecessary, do it since it helps but don't end up in that trap of endlessly-polishing-the-code as if the polish is the very goal.
whaack: Alright, I'm going to list off some other problems I need to solve:
whaack: 1. I grabbed the channels for the networks I'm logging in... December or so. Some of the channels no longer exist, and there's probably new channels on these networks that may have some activity.
whaack: 2. I can only connect 3 bots per IP to a network. For many networks this was enough to log all of their channels. However for some networks I'm logging atm there are many channels not being logged. I need to create a criteria for saying "I have successfully logged this channel, and I don't need to log it anymore" so that I can strike channels off a list and log the rest of the channels when I
whaack: start my next rotation in a month or so.
whaack: 3. There are a set of networks that I have a channel list for that I could not stay connected to. I need to investigate what went wrong with these networks.
whaack: 4. There is* a set of networks that I could not get a channel list for, likewise I need to see what went wrong with them.
whaack: 5. I am not logging ERR_BANNEDFROMCHAN and ERR_YOURBANNEDCREEP (banned from network) messages.
whaack: ERR_YOUREBANNEDCREEP*
whaack: That's it. The biggest question I have is (2). When can I mark a channel as being successfully logged, how do I keep track of all the successfully logged channels, and what should I do regarding logging new channels that get created from networks I had previously considered fully logged.
whaack: er I guess 6. I need to devise a plan to log all of freenode. This is large enough task to be almost considered a separate project.
diana_coman: whaack: 2.1 channel successfully logged == at least 2 weeks of *continuous* logs for it 2.2 how do you keep track of it is up to you really - it depends on your setup, no? plan it so you reliably keep track, I don't see what your question is asking exactly
diana_coman: 2.3 this is where latency otherwise will keep biting you - if it takes you half a year to log what you have, ofc meanwhile there will be new chans and all that; so ideally - don't take that long! that being said, simply setup some interval where you scan for new chans and then add them to the list, aiming to gradually reduce the gap or something
diana_coman: 6 is not a question!! (not that the rest contained the slightest question mark explicitly but anyways)
whaack: Sorry for just dumping my list of tasks I need to get done. I should have made it more clear that what I wanted was advice on which tasks to focus on.
diana_coman: whaack: logging + keeping track of logging sounds like first priority really, if it's not already in place.
whaack: Systems are in placed to know what channels I'm connected to and when I have disconnected/rejoined.
whaack: For 2 weeks of contiuous logging, if I disconnect + reconnect automatically at some point within the 2 week window I can still count the channel, right?
whaack: still count the channel as logged*
diana_coman: whaack: yes, as long as the break disconnect/reconnect is not longer than a few minutes.
whaack: Okay. I'll get to work creating a place/data structure where I keep a list of the successfully logged channels + a function that looks at a channels JOIN/DISCONNECT timestamps to determine whether or not the channel was logged successfully for 2 weeks.
diana_coman: sounds like a plan.
whaack: diana_coman: for my writing assignment for today should I redo my outline or go ahead with what I have and try to make an article out of it?
diana_coman: whaack: redo your outline, why would you persist without that? it's no trouble if you write&publish therefore tomorrow, is it?
whaack: the answer to the question was obvious after I wrote out the question lol
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: btw, you have that course and it's a good thing to have so do aim to use it; sure, if you really have contributors that don't *need* it, fine; again, it's all right to give new contributors time to get to the point where they can see they need it; but getting contributors to graduate from it (either formally or informally aka actually having that knowledge) *should be* mandatory, there's no way around this.
jfw: A hearty log breakfast of refining and structuring proper hate, purposes of writing and code cleaning. Thanks for the workout all!
jfw: And regarding the wallet. That was the fitting of the keystone into a bridge quite some time in the making, I carried a Cheshire cat's grin upon considering it all.
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Comment's responded to, avatar.png replaced, planning started
whaack: diana_coman: ahh.. I can't help but think you will get some joy out of reading this message. Not because you wish me ill but because you'll be glad luck didn't prevent me from being punished for a mistake. The RAV4 is currently out of operation on the side of the road near my surfpal's house. The dashboard lights went haywire and something felt very off with the transmission as I was dropping him
whaack: off at his place. After I turned off the car it would not start again.
whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report G: I took the time to pay the debt of not setting up backup systems on my new computer. When mounting my HDD I had a few questions that lead me to reading about the ext4 file system and GPT (GUID Partition Table). WTI: When I have a specific question, instead of just trying to answer that question, try to find out what is the broader misunderstanding and learn that topic.
whaack: B: I used a command, mkfs.ext4, on my hdd before fully understanding the command. Now my hdd is not listed in /dev/ and I don't know why. WTI: I don't know what to say. Obviously, don't use commands before understanding what they do.
jfw: whaack: I get the idea you're talking about an external hdd, maybe usb, though you don't say so. Normally mkfs shouldn't make device nodes come and go or even change the partition table at all. Checked the syslog + kernel log?
jfw: re the car, yeesh, electrical AND transmission problems at once? Might help to provide some detail on "haywire" and "felt very off"
jfw: and "would not start" too, lol. Wouldn't crank at all? Any lights?
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