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jfw: I'm celebrating the minor mental victory of getting back into the wallet code and specifically the godawful signing algorithm I hadn't touched since '17.
jfw: Already grabbed the lower hanging fruits so quite possible that's why I wasn't feeling so motivated for picking it back up.
whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I let installing Eulora eat up the better part of my day. I fell short on my saltmine hours (I only did 5) and also did not do my 1.5 hour of outlining for my article to be published tomorrow.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-04#1017292 - aha; that's why it helps to have a ton of motivation from the wider picture than any specific task itself.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-04 23:17:27 jfw: Already grabbed the lower hanging fruits so quite possible that's why I wasn't feeling so motivated for picking it back up.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017293 - you know, it looks like you'd rather focus on something until you're done with it and then move on; it's not necessarily a problem in itself, just adjust accordingly so the rest still gets done even if on another day.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 00:22:21 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I let installing Eulora eat up the better part of my day. I fell short on my saltmine hours (I only did 5) and also did not do my 1.5 hour of outlining for my article to be published tomorrow.
whaack: diana_coman: that's part of it, i thought about just switching my saltmines day to today and finishing up the job entirely. I probably should have, but I wanted to stick to what was left of my schedule.
whaack: diana_coman: in any event, i'll allocate 90 mins to fix the next problem with installing this morning: 'configure:3522: error: possibly undefined macro _AC_CC'
whaack: the versions of some relevant tools: autoconf: 2.63 ; libtool 2.2.6b; automake 1.11.1
whaack: i fixed my problem by upgrading to autoconf 2.69. redhat ships autoconf 2.63 with centos 6, so i'm not quite sure how i wound up with autoconf 2.63 in the first place.
diana_coman: whaack: heh, so it was version trouble indeed; anyways, well done sorting it out.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-04 15:35:25 diana_coman: whaack: uhm, I didn't run into that either; it really sounds like you are missing something/have mismatched versions
whaack: diana_coman: when you get an opportunity can you gpg me my eulora credentials?
diana_coman: whaack: o.O you said you already had an account?
whaack: diana_coman: yes.. the credentials are stored on a desktop that I did not take out of the reich
whaack: diana_coman: Although I would much prefer to not have to, I understand if I have to wait until I make a visit home to get it. And in full disclosure I've made a similar / the same mistake before.
ossabot: (trilema) 2017-01-13 mircea_popescu: whaack oh didn't you have one already ?
whaack: travel_billy: how has the rest of your trip turned out?
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017304 - to put it plainly: I can; I am not convinced that I should and you are certainly not helping there much because the way it looks you clearly consider those credentials worth ~0 and/or other people's problem.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 12:17:39 whaack: diana_coman: when you get an opportunity can you gpg me my eulora credentials?
whaack: diana_coman: my evaluation of the credentials has changed, and I acknowledge that my fuck up is a waste of your time.
diana_coman: hello c0ncord
diana_coman: what brings you here?
c0ncord: Hello, guys.
c0ncord: I'd like to work on blockchain things.
diana_coman: c0ncord: have you been working on something related? or how /why?
c0ncord: yes, I have
c0ncord: wow, i like that motto "work on what matters, so you matter too"
diana_coman: c0ncord: cheers!
diana_coman: c0ncord: do you have a blog/site/write somewhere?
c0ncord: i generally hang out on irc, may i OTR you?
diana_coman: c0ncord: why do you want/need OTR?
diana_coman: as you can see, we quite hang out on irc too, lolz.
diana_coman: except with logs and all that, quite publicly.
diana_coman: c0ncord: how did you find #trilema?
c0ncord: for more privacy, you know, here we're being logged, i generally don't mind but... in order to build trust you need to speak more about yourself and... i feel the need for more privacy
c0ncord: how did i find? well, it was long ago, i don't quite remember, but this time, today, i was looking for a SegWit-free bitcoin implementation
diana_coman: c0ncord: you are right re trust that it involves indeed to get to know the person, sure; the privacy however doesn't quite link like that but... take your time, there's no hurry :)
diana_coman: c0ncord: oh, so you've been lurking for a while? or just found it and then went away and now came back again or what is it?
diana_coman: you know, I'm asking you this stuff exactly to get to know you as otherwise nothing will come out of it really; otoh if you don't know me, there's all the logs and my blog and younghands.club and ..you can always ask whatever you need to ask.
c0ncord: no lurking, only knew about the project some time ago, "the real bitcoin", thought it was kinda cool
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 14:57:57 c0ncord: how did i find? well, it was long ago, i don't quite remember, but this time, today, i was looking for a SegWit-free bitcoin implementation
c0ncord: thanks, man
diana_coman: c0ncord: do you know what the WoT is/
c0ncord: yes
c0ncord: web of trust
diana_coman: c0ncord: so why not register a key with deedbot then?
c0ncord: yeah, why not
c0ncord: i like learning new stuff every day
diana_coman: c0ncord: specifically re what the WoT is
diana_coman: c0ncord: plenty to learn around here.
c0ncord: thanks, i'm reading
diana_coman: take your time, there's no rush
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-04 15:25:08 diana_coman: dorion: is this silence-since-Sunday the busy-silence or the stuck-silence?
dorion: c0ncord I lurked for quite a while too.
c0ncord: > "you know, I'm asking you this stuff exactly to get to know you as otherwise nothing will come out of it really; otoh if you don't know
c0ncord: me, there's all the logs and my blog and younghands.club and ..you can always ask whatever you need to ask.
c0ncord: yes, i've been reading your blog today
diana_coman: o.O ALL of it?
c0ncord: haha, impossible
c0ncord: let's say I'm impressed by your intellect
diana_coman: well, I'll admit I haven't written all that much or even as much as would have been best but...yeah, still.
diana_coman: c0ncord: let's say then thank you.
dorion: diana_coman busy silence, but that includes the busy getting unstuck silence, i.e. I've been reflecting on the my habits via the hand written journal and that has included researching and practicing some new techniques.
dorion: diana_coman working on unpacking the luggage, so to speak.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-02 16:08:21 diana_coman: dorion: luggage in the sense of unexamined habits/practices
diana_coman: dorion: sounds good; what's your plan re the due draft of that tmsr os page, do you want feedback on it (and if yes, when)?
diana_coman: c0ncord: where in the world are you?
c0ncord: sorry for the noobiness, what is TMSR?
diana_coman: the most serene republic; #trilema is its forum
diana_coman: it's a deep rabbit hole you found, heh, take it easy
c0ncord: a rock band?
diana_coman: ahahah
whaack: lmao
c0ncord: google lies to me? how it comes?
diana_coman: c0ncord: for the short explanation, you might want to read the thread starting for instance here (maybe the whole day there could be of interest to you, dunno)
ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-16 16:43:15 diana_coman: jfw: as to the republic as a whole, the fundamental aspect I'd say is the fact that it's a republic of men (ie individual agents, active and self-directed entities)
whaack: c0ncord: i've been practicing the guitar, jfw played the violin, and diana_coman the piano, but so far no albums yet
diana_coman: jfw also said he played the piano; and dorion promissed a harmonica piece so yeah, could qualify for some band too, why not
c0ncord: lol
c0ncord: by the way, what is V? some sort of git alternative? are you guys crazy?
dorion finally, recorded the harmonica piece, ode to joy, last night.
diana_coman: c0ncord: now if I say "I'm not crazy" - would you believe me?
c0ncord: Diana how it comes only today I learned about your existance? I heard about TMSR before (didn't know what it is, but heard the name at least), and of course read things about Mircea, but never about you.
diana_coman: c0ncord: as to V, follow the link from my latest article to the overview
c0ncord: or the rest of you, guys.
diana_coman: c0ncord: well, I'm ...more invisible than Mircea for sure.
c0ncord: I feel like I'm stepping in an old abandoned church were a secret society is holding a meeting or something.
diana_coman: c0ncord: other than that, how do I know why *you* didn't hear of me? because you didn't look in the right place? lolz
c0ncord: I always look at the right place: google. And google told me you don't exist.
diana_coman: ahahah, it's publicly logged, what secret society?
whaack: aha
diana_coman: c0ncord: tsk; who could have imagined!
diana_coman: c0ncord: where did you hear of tmsr before?
c0ncord: I'm almost sure it was while reading about Mircea.
c0ncord: but didn't understand what it was (still attempting)
diana_coman: c0ncord: proper understanding takes some time; and a lot of effort on occasion, lol.
c0ncord: i use duckduckgo on a hardened firefox profile behind few proxies and 3 vpn's
c0ncord: which i cycle from time to time, of course
c0ncord: duckduckgo sucks, i know
c0ncord: i said "google" just kidding
diana_coman: c0ncord: what did you read about Mircea?
c0ncord: whaack: i'm aware, yeah
c0ncord: diana_coman: that he was some kind of degenerate developer or something
c0ncord: didn't pay much attention really
whaack: dorion: sorry about not including you in the potential band, i am not denying the importance of the harmonica
diana_coman: c0ncord: what's a "degenerate developer"?
c0ncord: lol, i don't remember, my memory sucks
c0ncord: but i didn't believe it
c0ncord: politics in the crypto space is nauseating
diana_coman: c0ncord: well, if you don't remember what it is, how do you know you don't believe it? lolz
c0ncord: i remember not believing in the source, like it was some kind of politics drama or something
diana_coman: c0ncord: politics is fine; shit and vomit trying to pass for politics are nauseating, sure, obviously.
c0ncord: true
diana_coman: ah, choose thy sources properly or you'll barf; certainly!
diana_coman: jfw: why on earth did you never ever write that install script similar to the build script for gales? now I found out everything I never wanted to know about required kernel flags for using that initramfs of yours!
diana_coman: c0ncord: what do you do for a living if you don't mind me asking?
c0ncord: developer
diana_coman: c0ncord: so what sort of things do you develop
diana_coman: c0ncord: btw, if you need help with registering a key with deedbot, there's this handy guide
diana_coman: and otherwise... ask in here if you get stuck.
c0ncord: well, I'm trying to make things that help Humanity break free from centralized manipulation and authoritarianism
c0ncord: thanks, gonna register soon
diana_coman: c0ncord: hm, mind getting Humanity come by and say hi? I'd like to meet it.
diana_coman: the overview of V, to keep your reading list full.
c0ncord: sorry, i meant Humankind, our species
diana_coman: c0ncord: that too! or what, now that centralized manipulation and authoritarianism are brought by aliens or how do you even imagine it?
diana_coman: c0ncord: are you/have you been working alone?
c0ncord: yes
diana_coman: hopefully you had enough of that by now then! you know, man-alone is already a term of art around here (and it's not great for the ...man-alone).
c0ncord: i have some projects in mind, i'm trying to work on them, but it's hard, very hard alone
c0ncord: in a way, yes, it's been enough, it's been tough
diana_coman: c0ncord: and it's self-defeating and unnecessary and unsanitary and ...do you need me to go on?
diana_coman: c0ncord: how old are you, if it's not a secret?
c0ncord: i prefer to remain anonymous
diana_coman: c0ncord: why?
c0ncord: i value anonymity a lot, the how i came to this point... it's a long story, that i enjoy discussing, but not in public, because... anonymity XD
diana_coman: c0ncord: ain't that circularity a bit... biting your own tail there, don't you think?
c0ncord: yes, it's recursive, and it's tough
diana_coman: not to mention that hm, what did you do that terribly important that anyone cares to find out all that much about you anyway? and if they do...what?
c0ncord: ah, i would love to respond to that question... otr (i know i sound like a jerk, sorry for that)
diana_coman: c0ncord: do you realise you are asking me to keep you secrets ?
c0ncord: yes
c0ncord: i trust you
diana_coman: c0ncord: that is fine and dandy re trust but keeping someone else's secrets has its costs and ...why would I pay that for a "you" that I don't know?
c0ncord: cost not very high, i promise
diana_coman: c0ncord: you can't promise on *my* costs, you know?
diana_coman: c0ncord: but walk me through this contradiction here: you say it's important that you don't say it in public but at the same time the cost to keep it private is..."not very high"?
diana_coman: how can that be?
c0ncord: in any case, if you spill the beans, i'm the only affected, no consequences for you, my confessor
diana_coman: if it is indeed important, then the cost is high; if the cost is low then it's not important.
diana_coman: c0ncord: that's unrelated to the cost of *keeping a secret* though.
diana_coman: that's related to the consequences of *not* keeping it, lol.
c0ncord: oh, i see what you mean
c0ncord: i never felt a weight in keeping others' secrets, if i feel the need to tell someone i just change the name or say "someone"
diana_coman: ahahahha
diana_coman: yeah, not "feeling a weight" has to do with not really keeping, certainly.
diana_coman: around here words mean something though and apparently quite a lot more than outsiders imagine.
c0ncord: i see
diana_coman: c0ncord: for that matter, do you imagine a pm on irc is "kept a secret"?
c0ncord: oh, only via OTR plugin
diana_coman: which does what?
diana_coman: (I had no idea there's a plugin for that, jeez)
diana_coman reluctantly goes to read
diana_coman: and https too ffs
c0ncord: i noticed that you guys don't use https, why is that?
diana_coman: c0ncord: see this thread as the question has been asked before
ossabot: Logged on 2019-07-25 17:51:00 diana_coman: back to the "protect the client" (note that there is still the assumption that https actually delivers on what is says though this is not true) - 1. what/how are you exactly protecting them? 2. why? 3. why would you even want to be read by someone who expects *you* to "protect" them without even knowing you, just like that because ...what?
diana_coman: ahaha, win32 installer
c0ncord: oh, yeah, i see what you mean
diana_coman: c0ncord: you know, wtf do you need a plugin instead of just sending an encrypted (and signed if you want, sure) message?
c0ncord: like, the certificate authorities can intercept the traffic and read
diana_coman: people around here send those all the time, here, have a look how it goes, all those paste links were encrypted communciations: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-02-04
diana_coman: c0ncord: not even *just* that; read the full thread there really, you won't get very far with just "the gist of it" or something
c0ncord: i like otr because it offers perfect forward secrecy and deniability
diana_coman: c0ncord: was that pre-recorded? lolz
diana_coman: "if you lose control of your private keys" - good god.
diana_coman: and seriously, *why* would you want to deny you said what you said? to basically make sure you end up with all the disadvantages possible and none of the advantages?
c0ncord: that feature doesn't matter much really, it's just being able to say "i didn't say that" in a provable way
c0ncord: or more precisely "you can't prove i said that"
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017416 - all I can say is, other priorities intervened, or more like other fires to put out; and since it was working fine for me it didn't become a fire in my mind (or dorion's afaik)
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 15:27:30 diana_coman: jfw: why on earth did you never ever write that install script similar to the build script for gales? now I found out everything I never wanted to know about required kernel flags for using that initramfs of yours!
jfw: but, is this the diana_coman I know - complaining about having to learn things about how her system works? :)
diana_coman: jfw: lolz, you don't really know how complaints actually sound, do you?
jfw: I suppose I have an idea how worse ones sound; what word would you use then?
diana_coman: c0ncord: you know, if you end up in the sort of situation where you need to say that, you are already screwed and no amount of your saying that will save you.
diana_coman: jfw: mild rant at poor documentation :D
jfw: diana_coman: aight, and the prod is appreciated too.
jfw: any kernel flags in particular?
diana_coman: it's in the ...write-up queue, hm.
c0ncord: yeah, i agree, that's the least important of its features, i think
diana_coman: c0ncord: yeah, it has way more important anti-features indeed :D
c0ncord: don't you like perfect-forward secrecy?
diana_coman: jfw: config_kernel_xz config_rd_xz config_dec_xz
diana_coman: c0ncord: I don't see any reason to like it, no.
jfw: diana_coman: gotcha. I like xz, perhaps in the way c0ncord likes his otr: not having looked inside. Substantially higher compression ratio than the classic lz77 in many cases. But ultimately I can't justify having multiple compression algos when not even one is V-signed. As was pointed out too
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-12-14 mp_en_viaje: xz AND zlib lol ok, this discussio ncan continue later.
diana_coman: jfw: aha.
jfw: heh, the other point of course is that when your sources are so big that fiddling with compression yields substantial savings, you have way bigger problems and shouldn't be fiddling with the compression.
jfw: (going not just for me but the rather numerous projects that've adopted tar.xz distribution these days)
BingoBoingo: c0ncord: Experience suggests that the massive PR support encryption "for anonymity" and "deniability" enjoys in the mainstream isn't really that different from the marketing push towards "Segwit"
c0ncord: how to remove the key i just registered on deedbot?
jfw: c0ncord: my own foray into blogging and throwing off the shackles of the hallucinated option of private life (aka manaloning) begins at http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/hello-world/ . I'm presently working on what you might call "blockchain development" among other things
c0ncord: gonna check it out, jfw, thanks
c0ncord: <deedbot> 908173E641EE2B13D203BB9C46A3F4A6D19F6866 is already registered as c0ncord.
jfw: c0ncord: something wrong with that key or why do you want to change?
c0ncord: it was a mistake, i didn't want a 3072 bits key
c0ncord: i thought default was 4096
jfw: c0ncord, since you just now registered it might be doable, though in general such things are frowned on - another putting incentives in the right place thing.
jfw: your best bet would be to join #trinque and ask trinque nicely
jfw: if you're attached to the name
jfw: (he operates deedbot)
c0ncord: i will just join with another name later, don't worry
whaack: c0ncord: nice, you'll be able to deny everything you've already said :p
c0ncord: jfw, thanks a lot, and interesting af blog, reading it rn
jfw: yw.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 16:35:13 jfw: heh, the other point of course is that when your sources are so big that fiddling with compression yields substantial savings, you have way bigger problems and shouldn't be fiddling with the compression.
diana_coman: c0ncord: btw, for your thorough information on what is tmsr
diana_coman: c0ncord: so you'll get in with a different nick and...start all over?
dorion: c0ncord you can use the key you registered to rate your new nick if you wanna go the new nick/key route.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017365 - Friday is feasible for the draft. I will want feedback, but it's not a big rush. people are working through backlogs already and trinque has a specification planned as part 5 of his series.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 15:09:59 diana_coman: dorion: sounds good; what's your plan re the due draft of that tmsr os page, do you want feedback on it (and if yes, when)?
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-05#1017406 - thanks, but I didn't take offense, esp given that I've not provided much cause for you to remember, yet.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 15:24:29 whaack: dorion: sorry about not including you in the potential band, i am not denying the importance of the harmonica
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-05 16:39:07 BingoBoingo: c0ncord: Experience suggests that the massive PR support encryption "for anonymity" and "deniability" enjoys in the mainstream isn't really that different from the marketing push towards "Segwit"
dorion: c0ncord/d41r wut is that link ?
d41r: it's a javascript thing, your browser wouldn't understand
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