diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003638 - aka http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-23#1000508 - good to see you did ask him.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 18:24:52 whaack: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003628 << Well it is no longer a doubt after having spoken with asciilifeform. It may have been a protection/avoidance spew, but i can't recognize it as one myself.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 16:28:43 diana_coman: whaack: good for you on admitting to it all; now, is http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003541 still an actual doubt or just yet another protection/avoidance spew?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 11:24:17 whaack: asciilifeform: following from http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003544 I am considering submitting to training under diana_coman, but before I pulled the trigger I thought I should stop here and ask if you feel it would be wiser for me to submit to training under you. Is this something you are interested in, and if so what would be required of me for you to take me?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 10:51:45 diana_coman: whaack: so ask them directly, why not ask? fwiw yes, I would send you to someone else if I think it's a better fit but I don't know if "transfer" is the word for it; for one thing, you're not a package to just transfer; for the other, you can't and shouldn't eschew choice; see http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/08/fog-of-war/#comment-43
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 11:01:46 whaack: diana_coman: Japan certainly will be blogged! Well I do feel already decided; I don't feel the need to think it over in Japan - I would rather just have guidance on how to make best use of that trip. The only doubt I would have would be that perhaps asciilifeform or another lord is looking for someone and i would be better off serving them... but it seems you are the lord interested in training with younghands et all
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003641 - good; I'll get you set up there in a bit.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 18:32:00 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003520 << I cannot think of a reason to turn this offer down, so I will say 'yes'. Maybe at the one per month frequency.
ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-23 09:21:05 diana_coman: lobbes: you are doing quite well there from what I see with planning and sticking to it on the mp-wp work but at any rate - would you find it useful to have also a more general plan+review for yourself on younghands.club? ie going beyond just this one mp-wp current task; maybe for 2 weeks/1 month stretches at a time?
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003658 - that was in 2014 though, back when one still thought DNS might have some use; meanwhile http://trilema.com/2016/please-stop-using-dns-already-and-other-considerations/
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 18:50:41 whaack: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003635 << ztkfg.com was based on http://trilema.com/2014/why-everything-you-think-you-know-about-dns-is-entirely-wrong/ and grabbing a small character count. but i will consider switching to whaacked
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 17:32:28 diana_coman: whaack: fwiw, whaacked.com is an easier to remember domain than ztkfg.com
diana_coman: whaack: overall re domain name, it's mainly a question of what's your target really - if you target mainly those searching you via google, it makes sense perhaps to keep as primary ztkfg (I'd have said something ~readable even if short+unusual combination of starting letters); if you target those coming to you via WoT, all that stuff is irrelevant really and you might want to make it easier instead to link it with your name as you build yo
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003662 - nice; I hope you have a decent camera with you too, yes?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 18:55:56 whaack: lobbes: cool! I am going to Tokyo and Kyoto. I also am stopping in Seoul, Korea for a few days
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-23#1000511 - not a bad idea at all, go ahead and write it.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 11:56:55 whaack: asciilifeform: Okay, I think that itself deserves a blog post. The short answer is: programming (i have enjoyed going through SICP quite a bit, although its on hold, I want to learn how to program faster to eat through lots of saltmine work quickly), cryptography (i want to have trb "fit in head"), learning 2nd language (Spanish) , playing the guitar
diana_coman: whaack: I'll give you a chance, make the most of it; http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=TaQJ
diana_coman: thimbronion: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=w2HC
whaack: diana_coman: thank you *bows*
whaack: diana_coman: nice; I hope you have a decent camera with you too, yes? << Yes, I considered getting http://ossasepia.com/2019/08/12/camera-tests-of-a-sunday/ but a friend has a small Canon they are going to give me for the trip.
diana_coman: whaack: well, you'll need a good camera in costa rica too
diana_coman: you know your resources atm but that camera is worth its price.
diana_coman: whaack: let me know when you got your return date.
whaack: whaack: let me know when you got your return date. << Okay. Do you have a task or init younghands post you would like me to do prior to Thursday when I leave for JP?
diana_coman: whaack: atm you need to http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-23#1003633 ; the younghands posts will be weekly plans+reviews so best start on those when you get back.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 17:45:27 diana_coman: whaack: re the 2 blogs - you can't run away from yourself; so do yourself a favour and stop trying to split: get the content in one single place, redirect the other domain so no links are broken and stick with it; it's fine to cringe at your own past-doings and it's even healthy because it IS a sign of growth.
diana_coman: whaack: do you have some specific plan for the trip?
diana_coman: it's very little time until Thursday and you have already the above + http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003682 to write on your blog so do those, it's fine.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 05:55:31 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-23#1000511 - not a bad idea at all, go ahead and write it.
diana_coman: hm, interesting; let's test: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-23#1000511
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 11:41:10 whaack: asciilifeform: Okay, I think that itself deserves a blog post. The short answer is: programming (i have enjoyed going through SICP quite a bit, although its on hold, I want to learn how to program faster to eat through lots of saltmine work quickly), cryptography (i want to have trb "fit in head"), learning 2nd language (Spanish) , playing the guitar
diana_coman: and test part 2: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003698
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 09:19:32 diana_coman: hm, interesting; let's test: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-09-23#1000511
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-23 11:41:10 whaack: asciilifeform: Okay, I think that itself deserves a blog post. The short answer is: programming (i have enjoyed going through SICP quite a bit, although its on hold, I want to learn how to program faster to eat through lots of saltmine work quickly), cryptography (i want to have trb "fit in head"), learning 2nd language (Spanish) , playing the guitar
diana_coman: ha; asciilifeform where was this bot-cites-stuff-from-other-bot specced? I can see the point, but it does create as above difference depending on the interplay of bots rather than anything else, not sure this specific aspect was intended, was it?
whaack: diana_coman: no i don't have a specific plan for the trip. there are three of us total, the third person is a friend-of-a-friend. he has been the one putting together the itinerary. alright, I will try to merge my blogs and create a what-am-i-interested-in post before i head out
whaack: and setup a bouncer for a travel handle is a top priority as well.
diana_coman: whaack: sounds like a good opportunity to try your hand at travel-logging really; esp since interactions can get... interesting with friends-of-friends with whom you haven't travelled before.
diana_coman: aha.
shrysr: diana_coman: re: http://younghands.club/2019/09/23/week-10-review/#comment-22 , yes I think it is atleast one core of my problems and recently slow progress. I've managed to do the 2-headed approach sometimes in short phases, which is probably why i can do something in data-hag today. In general I've been more successful with this at mine stuff. But i regress back to 'knowing it all' very ...naturally,
shrysr: almost on 'automatic'. I think one way to tackle it is to write out a project goal + plan and stick to it, and just file away 'related /deeper tasks or desired knowledge'...and to review frequently, but still strictly control whether I plunge into anything 'else'.
shrysr: diana_coman: also ack the comment on the bash script post. ty. I understand what you've said, but still assimilating.
shrysr: Re: http://younghands.club/2019/09/23/week-11-plan/#comment-21, I think that approach makes more sense; tbh the priority+practice part has been bothering me as well. Will post an updated plan with this style, as a new post superceding previous, if thats ok? btw: whyddya call it 'dev-style'?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003704 << was in mp's orig spec .
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 09:05:38 diana_coman: ha; asciilifeform where was this bot-cites-stuff-from-other-bot specced? I can see the point, but it does create as above difference depending on the interplay of bots rather than anything else, not sure this specific aspect was intended, was it?
lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003685 << tyvm. I will aim to get a general workplan out for Oct by the end of today, methinks
ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-24 10:17:53 diana_coman: lobbes: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=o4pw
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003709- sounds sensible, try it and see how it goes.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 11:27:50 shrysr: almost on 'automatic'. I think one way to tackle it is to write out a project goal + plan and stick to it, and just file away 'related /deeper tasks or desired knowledge'...and to review frequently, but still strictly control whether I plunge into anything 'else'.
diana_coman: shrysr: fwiw, it may be that you don't feel comfortable working with uncertainty essentially; it is curable, mainly through practice.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003711 - mainly because it's close to how requirements for a piece of software are sometimes classed ie "must-have, nice-to-have"
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 11:41:33 shrysr: Re: http://younghands.club/2019/09/23/week-11-plan/#comment-21, I think that approach makes more sense; tbh the priority+practice part has been bothering me as well. Will post an updated plan with this style, as a new post superceding previous, if thats ok? btw: whyddya call it 'dev-style'?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: do you see the difference I mean there ? (ie final result/cited lines depending on which logs are used by each person rather than on what is referenced)
diana_coman: I'll mull this over a bit.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: indeed depends on which logs.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003714 - you still have a few days until the end of the month but if you want to have time for 1-2 iterations it's best to publish a draft sooner rather than later, indeed.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 12:51:45 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003685 << tyvm. I will aim to get a general workplan out for Oct by the end of today, methinks
ericbot: Logged on 2019-09-24 10:17:53 diana_coman: lobbes: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=o4pw
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i was considering a knob to toggle off citing of other-bots entirely , but shelved it, as mp said he dun care atm
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it isn't difficult to implement, as config already contains a list of known bots to check against
diana_coman: asciilifeform: atm I can see it both ways (just one line or full tree) but what bothers me is this difference based on bot-preference - I can't quite see the meaning of it.
diana_coman: I'll think it over a bit longer and then add to the discussion at the spec if I still have something to say on it.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: in principle i agree -- it dun add anyffin useful. but i wrote orig bot for mp and so tried to implement his spec literally
diana_coman: shrysr: how's it going with your mine work too?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: sure; as it is, it's perfectly to spec and therefore absolutely correct.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: tbf it aint entirely as pictured in his spec (e.g. i took the liberty of citing each link on own line, to reduce truncation)
thimbronion: diana_coman: My first post to younghands.club will address http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-22#1003475. Is that what it's for or is there a more formal spec for it's use?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-22 19:28:51 diana_coman: thimbronion: so write then first the fuckup thing; by Weds if you say that's enough time; think of what constraints would bring the WoT piece to something manageable over a 1-2 weeks term and state those/ask.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: if you want to make the toggle, don't hesitate, i'ma read & sign patch
asciilifeform: imho this really oughta be an operator knob
asciilifeform: ( prolly best way to implement it, is e.g. cited_bots=...,..., and then if speaker is a bot, citation is enabled only if said bot is in cited_bots )
asciilifeform: ... this way, it would be possible to, for instance, disable citation strictly for some bot that has fallen out of sync
diana_coman: thimbronion: since you have your own blog, I'd say it serves you best to write your stuff on your own blog so you have it there at any time later and use younghands.club for weekly plans+reviews.
asciilifeform: cited_bots = bots would give the current behaviour.
diana_coman: you are always welcome to write other/more posts on younghands.club too, there is no limit and no problem
diana_coman: but essentially since it's your content, you'd naturally want it on your own blog, no?
diana_coman: younghands.club is meant to be helpful 1. for keeping track of progress & getting timely feedback as I follow it 2. when/if one doesn't have own blog
thimbronion: diana_coman: ok makes sense. I will post planning only on younghands. First post will be my plan for tackling the WoT piece.
diana_coman: thimbronion: sounds good.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: at the risk of off-topic -- how has been your experience of that moldavian hoster ? asciilifeform has been hunting for some places outside of piz to park certain things ( incl. own www, which is presently on a moribund heathen thing ; additional trb ; and potentially a pilot irc noad for trying to make a go of mp's 'motherfuckers, why are we on fleanode' thrust )
asciilifeform: while on subj, it seems odd to me that we have already 3 ( 4? ) independent logotrons but at same time all sit on fleanode. these boxes really oughta be relays , then the problem of 'sync logs' evaporates. and then can actually attempt the social engineering to link up with older irc nets ( mp raged that 'no one even tried' but atm there aint anyffin to link up, no one has relay )
lobbes: diana_coman: hmm, I noticed that younghands.club doesn't show any of the "Visual" knobs when composing a post, at least not for me. I composed a chunk of it on my own blog with all the formatting and figured I could just paste the html in the "Html" window, but I can't seem to select that either. Is this a known bug or is this something wrong on my end?
asciilifeform: lobbes: i was under the impression that mp-wp jettisoned the 'visual' knobs
diana_coman: lobbes: let me see, I think I disabled it; 1 min
diana_coman: lobbes: it's actually enabled; do you mean you don't see the bar with the buttons ? or just the buttons or what?
diana_coman: if you have it html, you need anyway the html tab - is that not working or what?
lobbes: diana_coman: I don't see the bar with the buttons at all. But yeah, more importantly the html tab dun seem to work
lobbes: as in, I click it but it dun 'switch'
diana_coman: lobbes: I just logged in with your user and it ..does work
lobbes: odd.. I'll try to log out then log back in
diana_coman: fwiw on "visual" the icons on the buttons don't show; but switching the tabs works and buttons in html mode do show the icons etc.
lobbes: weird, still won't 'switch' to html tab for me
lobbes: maybe just a browser failure. I'm using chromium fwiw
diana_coman: asciilifeform: re moldavians, they have been reliable and *very prompt* so far; they have only Intel dedicated servers though but for what I need them I'm happy with them;
diana_coman: they *need* to be told /corrected basic stuff at times
diana_coman: but they are happy to do once asked and without any weird airs or anything
diana_coman: and I just paid for 1 year with btc straight to address given too, no problem so far
diana_coman: asciilifeform: re multiple networks, I'm looking to help someone step up to that plate, but they need to be ready too; it will happen though.
diana_coman: lobbes: I'm using firefox here.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i've actually yet to see heathens offer anyffin but intel boxen, in last decade or so
lobbes: diana_coman: I just tried with "iceweasel" but still to no avail. odd
asciilifeform: diana_coman: from my pov , moar concerned with quality of connectivity , and cost, in that order
lobbes: In any case, I've got my working draft saved over on my personal blog for now. I guess we have time to figure it out before Oct
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can plox elaborate re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003764 ?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 14:00:10 diana_coman: they *need* to be told /corrected basic stuff at times
diana_coman: lobbes: what does it mean exactly "won't switch"? what happens, what's the state of the thing?
diana_coman: !o uptime
ossabot: diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 3d 0h 2m
diana_coman: asciilifeform: ossabot lost connection only once really (and that time iirc it was after a netsplit)
diana_coman: so I'm really quite happy so far; cheapest dedicated machine is 49 euros/month iirc ;
asciilifeform: diana_coman: notbad.
diana_coman: re basic stuff: they initially sent credentials plain-text via email, no server fingerprint either; another time they messed up one invoice twice (first hilariously charging 1 month fees for a whole year of service, then upon me pointing out that yo, silly, they just did *12 instead of *10)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: initially -- and then agreed to pgp ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: yep; I told them ahem, re-generate and encrypt, here's my public key and they simply did it, directly and without further fuss or anything.
asciilifeform: neato.
lobbes: diana_coman: here's a screencap https://i.imgur.com/Cg7pBkk.png (i.e. I click on "HTML" tab and it remains "greyed out")
asciilifeform: this is 1st time i hear of a heathen vendor seeing reason re pgp
diana_coman: asciilifeform: I don't know if they saw reason beyond "she's paying nicely and she asked this of us" but I'm happy with that
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'm still chaffing from the time when i flew to europistan and met mp's barrister fella , and for no amt of fresh 100 $ , nor in 3 languages, could i get him to pgp
diana_coman: asciilifeform: I suppose I'll actually do a write-up post on them, why not advertise them for tmsr anyway
asciilifeform: a++ idea, will read
lobbes will also read
diana_coman: lobbes: the weird thing is that shrysr initially had the same trouble iirc ; http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-07-24#999260
ossabot: Logged on 2019-07-24 09:45:00 shrysr: yes I see both tabs. HTML is greyed out. presuming the visual mode is active - but there's just a text input box, with no formatting option.
lobbes: I also wonder if I was dumb for *not* requesting the heathen vendor I deal with to encrypt, or also dumb because I paid in heathenbux instead of btc
diana_coman: shrysr: how did the visual/html thing get sorted out for you on younghands.club in the end?
diana_coman: lobbes: as a rule - always ask
lobbes: makes sense
diana_coman: lobbes: hm, let me actually disable the visual mode, maybe you get just the html and be done with it
lobbes: roger that
diana_coman: lobbes: try re-login now
lobbes: diana_coman: seems to do the trick!
diana_coman: lobbes: good then, I'll put it on the list to disable it on all new accounts.
lobbes: tyvm for your help troubleshooting
diana_coman: yw
shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003794 << you disabled visual editor ..that works for me since I write in org mode markup and export to html for younghands posts. Visual mode had no formatting options iirc.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 14:34:44 diana_coman: shrysr: how did the visual/html thing get sorted out for you on younghands.club in the end?
ossabot: Logged on 2019-07-24 09:47:00 diana_coman: I've deactivated the visual editor for you so hopefully you get only the html one
ossabot: Logged on 2019-07-24 09:45:00 shrysr: yes I see both tabs. HTML is greyed out. presuming the visual mode is active - but there's just a text input box, with no formatting option.
shrysr: ah ok
shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003732 << lol. Okayish. The activity level/balance is still not as desired... but I've been making sure to have 'something decent' to show / explain for 'spot-whaddya-doing-questions'. I've also got the erp consultant doing some init work to jumpstart me into 'jinja' templating or whatever..to enable custom print formats of docs. I guess it will be useful
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 13:45:42 diana_coman: shrysr: how's it going with your mine work too?
shrysr: as exposure... fwiw (considering volatility) had brief run in with head orcs yest, it would seem that despite their init stupid remarks - my message did get across and they appear kindda satisfied. I guess, i'm a little surprised. fwiw - i am expecting activity level to reach the desired level once the plan to address skill deficit becomes clear as well.
diana_coman: shrysr: ok.
diana_coman: shrysr: just in case it wasn't clear - I asked you re work-at-mines just to make sure you are keeping on top of that too, that's all; from what you say, you are, hence ok.
shrysr: diana_coman: yes I understood it as you just said, and totally appreciate you asking tbh. its definitely a danger point for me esp in current env, i.e neglecting it.. previous mines usually had somebody looking into things and better definitions of tasks... or lol, cd be said had some buffer against being shredded.. sure i align a reason for everything i do, but i guess I havent exp this extent of
shrysr: mine-orcs-blindness perhaps.. its hard to keep up morale.
diana_coman: shrysr: well, you need to keep an eye on it and not neglect it until you can move on.
shrysr: yes. I will.
shrysr: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-24#1003718 << to some extent perhaps. I guess I've faced this particularly w.r.t data-hag - therez no 'standard' way of doing things.... and bucket-loads of hype.. It was terribly unsettling for a long time and thankfully much less so now. It's taken a long time to identify shit as shit and filter it and feel reassured that i'm not entirely on the wrong path
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-24 13:37:23 diana_coman: shrysr: fwiw, it may be that you don't feel comfortable working with uncertainty essentially; it is curable, mainly through practice.
shrysr: in terms of prep/thinking. Good example of filtering, which is how I found Matt Dancho.. and got a jumpstart in R through his courses and interacting with him. I've literally seen that 80-20 package list work via the erp project.... helped as well that he has a mech engg bg like me and is quite honest in interactions.
diana_coman: shrysr: as a basic rule, the "our quest is to prove these theories" is ~= "we are idiots"
diana_coman: shrysr: I know the appeal of "data-based approach" and "scientific analysis" but the substance is not at all solid just because "analysed data" or "it seems to work";
diana_coman: basically the danger is that by the time you get to understand enough to even be able to see the ways in which the thing you bought from them is broken, it's way too late to not get hurt by it.
diana_coman: this is why it's actually *safer* to ignore all of them *especially* when you don't know anything about the domain; it's counterintuitive and possibly depressing, I know; it still is what it is.
shrysr: i see your point. fwiw i don't think it is counter intuitive, if approached with sense ( and a great deal of it). However, it would also seem that not getting hurt/ being able to 'see as not solid' is largely abt keeping wits/open mind and not getting sucked into what is being bought right? You can ignore them all, but to learn - you need to find either a master, or a book or course.. or of course job.
shrysr: Books /course are obv easiest to find... and even there it takes time to filter.