diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-12#1002339 - btw the reason why I pointed out this particular bit is precisely because from what I read - since not yet actually seen - of you, it stuck out as not-you (more like something still sticking to you).
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-12 17:06:35 diana_coman: shrysr: my pointing out to you the "make money from" was a bit of mirror-holding and pointing out what you didn't seem to have noticed.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-09 13:43:29 diana_coman: shrysr: so come and visit Reading, have a talk face to face at least, then.
shrysr: diana_coman: my general understanding of the feudal code goes like - theres an ... emperor of all the 'land', but then there are kings or leaders of various provinces (who are either conquered by force or via deals - eg getting stuff they usually cant find without great difficulty or enticements) - kings n leaders pay tribute (possibly in forms other than money) to the emperor, who supposed to protect em
shrysr: to some extent atleast. Each king/leader shd have their own lil army ... cd even be a coalition of sorts there i guess. emperor got his own army. during war - presume the lesser lords supposed to supply men/stuff to emperor whether they agree with the cause or not.
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-12#1002371 hmm i was thinking in any relationship with master whether slave or knight - there is still an opportunity to evolve?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-12 17:15:46 diana_coman: dunno, some prefer to be slaves, you know?
diana_coman: shrysr: that's more of a rather confused description of the situation at some point in the Dark Ages, than anything to do with the feudal code itself
diana_coman: tbf, I suppose I should have said page or at most squire since that's the proper title for knight-in-training; at this rate I'll end up drawing a flag and writing down the whole thing, ha.
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-12#1002334 << i believe this is important. I am not immune to what seems to be some kindda inherent jealousy..(he got that wtf and i gotta hav that n fuck loads more.. because i .. am better?). while the predominant drive is becoming better for becoming better - there is also a sense of competition. Well this rears up head sometimes without control, but
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-12 16:42:22 diana_coman: and yes, the advantage of striving to fulfill exactly what you are made for is that you'll be better at that than at anything else; but *all* of this is really by comparison to yourself (potential versions, let's say), not to someone else.
shrysr: passes as well without too much damage. The good thing is that i am aware of it ... and try to immediately course correct because I think such comparison.. is well orcish-ugly and not even sensible.
diana_coman: shrysr: anyway, the core of the code was essentially what you'd call now a "code of conduct" but otherwise and more to the point, an attempt to state the relationship between lord (liege/master) and knight (as lower, trained nobility)
diana_coman: for one thing, not just anyone could even train to become a knight
shrysr: classification based on profession + lineage ?
diana_coman: for the other, it was quite a lot of training anyway and only the last stage was effectively direct training with a mentor
diana_coman: as for the feudal relationship of vasselage - the core of it would be that : a. the lord offers protection and guidance, possibly also a fief b. the vassal in return pledges unconditional loyalty and support when asked for it (in pretty much whatever form is asked for)
diana_coman: vassalage*
diana_coman: shrysr: now if you want to go further back to get to a working slave system aka pretty much the Romans, there were plenty of freed slaves that went on to become ~everything, yes
diana_coman: the crucial difference is that a slave pledges himself *entirely* as in fully, to the master to do with him as the master considers best (the expression is "pleases").
diana_coman: and whether/when a slave is freed is entirely up to the master too - basically when and if the master considers that the slave deserves it.
diana_coman: normally after granting/receiving freedom, the relationship simply moves on to a different stage that is effectively closer to vassalage above though less formal perhaps
diana_coman: shrysr: there is very little new under the sun, in other words: people have always needed mentors to learn from and as such, the relationships are still essentially the same, under one name or another and more explicit or less, depending on the age.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002391 - one cure to this comes quite naturally when you are too busy with your own shit to have time for jealousy :D
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 11:37:43 shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-12#1002334 << i believe this is important. I am not immune to what seems to be some kindda inherent jealousy..(he got that wtf and i gotta hav that n fuck loads more.. because i .. am better?). while the predominant drive is becoming better for becoming better - there is also a sense of competition. Well this rears up head sometimes without control, but
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-12 16:42:22 diana_coman: and yes, the advantage of striving to fulfill exactly what you are made for is that you'll be better at that than at anything else; but *all* of this is really by comparison to yourself (potential versions, let's say), not to someone else.
shrysr: i guess thats how i meant it 'passes'... i'd just... forget. Sometimes it would linger I would need to wrestle, but a lotta times, it was more like.. forgotten.
diana_coman: shrysr: rounding up the feudal code, knights, slaves and all that: progression is always possible, of course, like in any human relationship; however, there are some bits that normally (ie unless catastrophic breakout) remain quite fixed, namely protection+help+advice from the master and loyalty+support when and as asked in return
diana_coman: shrysr: don't wrestle with it, study it; look at precisely what and where and why it affects you, because there is always in fact some hole in *you* that resonates out in that particular form; btw, it's the same thing when you "feel insulted", since it came up quite a few times in your writing
diana_coman: every time you "feel insulted", it's in fact some insecurity of your own that comes to light; nothing to do with the "insult"
diana_coman: shrysr: all the above being said, competition and being competitive is absolutely FINE and PROPER
diana_coman: just don't get bitter over it - get instead better!
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002409 - this should be in fact either help+advice for loyalty+support when and as asked or protection+help+advice for obeisance (as in doing as told, not courtly gestures only) + loyalty+support
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 11:57:56 diana_coman: shrysr: rounding up the feudal code, knights, slaves and all that: progression is always possible, of course, like in any human relationship; however, there are some bits that normally (ie unless catastrophic breakout) remain quite fixed, namely protection+help+advice from the master and loyalty+support when and as asked in return
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002396 - no, not just a classification; a way of life.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 11:40:19 shrysr: classification based on profession + lineage ?
diana_coman: shrysr: note that beyond the definitions/codes/whatever and like with each and any relationship, the outcome and actual experience always and inevitably depends on the people involved, nothing else.
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002399 << /me likey sound of fief :D. i think after reading above description of feudal code - slave could become quite boring.. i see a *lot* is dependent on both nature of master and nature of slave... and thats why you described it as a choice? hehe knight gets to fight 'off' frustration and go off on quests... (eventually after training wheels get
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 11:27:31 diana_coman: as for the feudal relationship of vasselage - the core of it would be that : a. the lord offers protection and guidance, possibly also a fief b. the vassal in return pledges unconditional loyalty and support when asked for it (in pretty much whatever form is asked for)
shrysr: off).
diana_coman: knights were mounted cavalry, yes, mainly because that's what "heavy fighting machine" meant in that particular age
diana_coman: shrysr: yep, all of it really depends on the people involved, absolutely; that's why there is no such thing as "x is happy to be a slave/knight" but there IS such a thing as "X is more than happy to be a slave/knight to Y"
shrysr: i see what you mean here.
diana_coman: shrysr: heh, fief was part of vassalage and not always/mandatory; again, a matter between X and Y.
shrysr: lol ok
diana_coman: shrysr: other than fief-interest and quest-likes, any trouble with the rest?
shrysr: still digesting tbh.
diana_coman: take your time
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002412 << i am inclined to believe this is true. w.r.t insult - i tend to think that... boss or not - human with functional brain shd be well... atleast rational, esp at professional env. i guess at that point, encountering clear non-sense - there is a 'loss of respect' towards the other person, and a thinking that boss or whoever shd be displaced or put
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 11:44:46 diana_coman: every time you "feel insulted", it's in fact some insecurity of your own that comes to light; nothing to do with the "insult"
shrysr: into place atleast, but i know i cant *do* shit...punch till unconscious.. and many times - even different words seem to be wasted as well. well mostly cannnot do anything on the spot, unless i am terribly cunning (dont seem to be when i need to, and terribly shrewd at *also* judging 'current' mood + awareness of other parallel influencing events, in addition to 'basic nature' (which i guess I am not bad
shrysr: at, given time)) and most of the time the 'long-game' doesnt seem worthy of effort or even sensible... i think the end result is rage over my impotence something.
shrysr: and i guess I call it insult... because perhaps i also translate it to the other person being irrationally stubborn is because they think in turn I am an asshole.... or more likely.. a threat. whereas - afaik i never approach with an objective of threat/insult.. i think to truly grow - boss needs my help, and i need his help... and proper growth is fucking together... i aint looking to eat you - but you
shrysr: are blind to see it, no matter ... how many work-arounds in words i devise. There is trust after a point in work output / judgement sure - but accompanied by perennial fear of being displaced - but no recognition of loyalty that i take even extra effort to show, despite said 'loss of respect' in my mind. I guess translates to rage over impotence and just 'unfair, wtf d00d'?
diana_coman: shrysr: by the sound of it (and fitting previous accounts from you), you tend to construct too much on thin air ie in your mind only; all those translations you made don't have a very solid basis.
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002434 - that "boss needs my help" is dubious at best.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 12:48:25 shrysr: and i guess I call it insult... because perhaps i also translate it to the other person being irrationally stubborn is because they think in turn I am an asshole.... or more likely.. a threat. whereas - afaik i never approach with an objective of threat/insult.. i think to truly grow - boss needs my help, and i need his help... and proper growth is fucking together... i aint looking to eat you - but you
diana_coman: for that matter - what are you looking for as "recognition of loyalty"?
shrysr: not dubious imho based on salt-mines i have seen... if you mean without me - business / boss wd not die : agreed. However, to solve problems - yes, simply because i had skills / able to learn stuff that they cdnt touch with barge pole and necessary to solve problem!
shrysr: brb 10 min
diana_coman: shrysr: eh, sounds like "problem needed my help".
shrysr: recognition of loyalty -- something akin to partnership? i.e recognition that i aint talking with sole goal of rising in ranks or saying 'u are wrong', but that 'isnt this way more sensible/easier/better quality?', if yes - lets fuckin do it together... or you direct me how to do it even better with your exp (if not brain)? or if you wanna do it alone... fine! but if you counter saying - 'always done other
shrysr: way... donno why.. dont really care, willing to be inefficient..rather than either me or you put in work.. lets suffer together.. but yea - you are right though.. now fuck off and lemme twiddle thumbs'?
shrysr: diana_coman: lol ok. well its not a problem if you dont have a solution to it is it? you've lived with a problem cause you didnt bend your mind to solve.. or didnt have skills.. etc. but i have a proposed solution, and you recognise its a problem... then what next?
diana_coman: well, for one thing and regardless of all the rest, you still *are* challenging the authority there so not much loyalty *to the person*; sure, you are loyal to the business; at any rate the whole thing does sound like "working with idiots" so ...not worth banging head over it
diana_coman: solution is simple: don't work with idiots.
diana_coman: for that matter, don't spend too much time with idiots either, it's unhygienic.
shrysr: :))
shrysr: i have often wondered if *i* was the idiot. ok.. not so much loyalty to person. i admit trying to compensate by lying to soothe egos...holding door open etc servile acts..to 'display utter admiration'.. as a part of a 'game'. but my impression is ...mostly seen as a ploy... or game to thwart even then.
diana_coman: that's the trouble with not having a solid structure and clear processes to rely on: you are left wondering just who is the idiot.
diana_coman: and well, you were playing a game and it was perceived as a game, not that surprising; people are quite good of this sort of perception; as to "why", that is not perception but reason + applying it to you specifically so forget it, ofc they couldn't be arsed.
shrysr: it was also hard to do... constantly felt defaced by self and perhaps was not truly consistent either due to lack of belief in gaming and sense of getting corrupted + waste of little brain power available. fwiw. i guess the 'thinking' style anyway shows everywhere else as you say... you discuss negotiation/strategy on 'how to win a job' or customer.. or solve a problem..etc ppl get a sense of how you think
shrysr: i guess... they get more cognizant (and biased) with exp as well. i believe gaming cd work with ppl you don't interact with all that much...
shrysr: diana_coman: returning to task (1) due sunday: i think sufficient has been shared with me to say that - job needed for subsistence+savings till i find my way here, and further questions can be tackled as i progress/refine shit-in-head? Current env being extra toxic + plus justification / thought process necessary to switch to data-hag is established..also that the direction is aligned to potential tasks on
shrysr: eulora. I dont think i have any major points to add to draft...other than referencing some portions of chan discussions. Seems more like it has to be a continuous effort/thought in bg to eventually find freedom?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-12 03:06:19 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-11#1002157 - inb8 shrysr wants to unleash machine learning on such data to extract precious knowledge out of the fudge :D
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 22:35:59 lobbes: I've lost count of how many times the 'reports' are changed/fudged before release, or how completely constructed ALL of the data is, or how many times I've heard that the various audit agents of the 'OCC' (office of comptrollers of the currency) literally just look for some % of issues boxes to tick on their sheet. It is all pretend, to make it *look like something* is happening. To justify the printing
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002453 - that's on the slippery slope of self-excuses, pay attention.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 13:54:49 shrysr: it was also hard to do... constantly felt defaced by self and perhaps was not truly consistent either due to lack of belief in gaming and sense of getting corrupted + waste of little brain power available. fwiw. i guess the 'thinking' style anyway shows everywhere else as you say... you discuss negotiation/strategy on 'how to win a job' or customer.. or solve a problem..etc ppl get a sense of how you think
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002455 - that + more concrete data on subsistence options ie where & how much; don't limit here to can/india either - or if you do, say why.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 14:32:31 shrysr: diana_coman: returning to task (1) due sunday: i think sufficient has been shared with me to say that - job needed for subsistence+savings till i find my way here, and further questions can be tackled as i progress/refine shit-in-head? Current env being extra toxic + plus justification / thought process necessary to switch to data-hag is established..also that the direction is aligned to potential tasks on
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002456 - the more of it that comes to foreground and is made public, the more others can help perhaps; other than that, yes - continuous work on it until you are there; note though that a plan is needed.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 14:32:33 shrysr: eulora. I dont think i have any major points to add to draft...other than referencing some portions of chan discussions. Seems more like it has to be a continuous effort/thought in bg to eventually find freedom?
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002457 - my own sort of inb4; see urban dictionary I guess.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 14:37:34 shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-12#1002195 inb8 means?
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-12 03:06:19 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-11#1002157 - inb8 shrysr wants to unleash machine learning on such data to extract precious knowledge out of the fudge :D
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-11 22:35:59 lobbes: I've lost count of how many times the 'reports' are changed/fudged before release, or how completely constructed ALL of the data is, or how many times I've heard that the various audit agents of the 'OCC' (office of comptrollers of the currency) literally just look for some % of issues boxes to tick on their sheet. It is all pretend, to make it *look like something* is happening. To justify the printing
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-12#1002347 : that does sound interesting.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-12 16:59:13 diana_coman: shrysr: the big current opening and the one that I thought might be interesting to you is re graphics: not necessarily making the art yourself but rather building up and running the needed infrastructure for the art market
diana_coman: shrysr: so then... aim for it.
shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002463 ok. also re: foreground.. yes. I understand. will work on it.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 14:51:02 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-13#1002455 - that + more concrete data on subsistence options ie where & how much; don't limit here to can/india either - or if you do, say why.
ossabot: Logged on 2019-09-13 14:32:31 shrysr: diana_coman: returning to task (1) due sunday: i think sufficient has been shared with me to say that - job needed for subsistence+savings till i find my way here, and further questions can be tackled as i progress/refine shit-in-head? Current env being extra toxic + plus justification / thought process necessary to switch to data-hag is established..also that the direction is aligned to potential tasks on
shrysr: re: alternatives - just found out that there are 'remote work-from-home' consultants for the company serving the erp s/w. I have asked my contact there abt how it works/feasibility.
diana_coman: shrysr: can't hurt to ask, for sure.
shrysr: diana_coman: Re: urgency of mine shift -- shd this be re-eval despite everything established? -> heard some indications yest that business slightly picking up. Had already planned to ask for raise (more like revision) long ago. The thought was: show some carrots (1-2 aspects of ERP prolly functional (to be confirmed) to be used pronto) + ask for raise and show glimpses of some future carrots (was asked
shrysr: suddenly today whether a 'QR' code cd be slapped onto products - so customers get tech specs pronto) --> gauge 'firing' mood via response. if deemed favorable, reduce urgency and shift focus back to V/eulora - ride out some more months? .... env established as toxic + volatile fwiw. above seems... sub-optimal for long term (except asking raise).
whaack: hola. i'm going to be in transit for a week starting tomorrow (setting up lease in CR) and will therefore be sending any messages from a travel-handle.
lobbes: safe travels whaack. (and congrats on the escape)
whaack: tyvm lobbes. and if i may - judging from your blog your escape may be on the horizon
lobbes: still in the early plotting stages, but yes, I don't think I want to die in the US that is for sure
lobbes: going to take a trip to UY in the early spring to visit BingoBoingo at least. Start feeling out potential landing spots
whaack: sounds nice, i'm going to want to visit there at some point as well. where im going in CR is somewhat of an emergency escape pod..the place i'm trying to close is a cheap place with nothing around it
whaack: it's inconvenient for anything save surfing and having peace and quiet
lobbes: peace and quiet is nice, at least. you got yourself one of those remote work gigs, right? That's my main concern for myself atm; steady income
whaack: yessir. it's a good gig but it only lasts until February.