scoopbot: New article on A Syndication of Verisimilitudes: An Ada UDP POSIX Sockets Binding
gregorynyssa: shinohai: if he is not on Pest yet, he will be soon.
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-29#1112633 << leaky abstraction. IRC only allows /me at start of line, does not recognize concept of replies/citations.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-29 10:01:59 shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-29#1112624 << /me was unaware vex had ever stood up a pest station.
gregorynyssa: one of the worst leaky abstractions in history is, of course, WWW's lack of built-in support for back-links.
gregorynyssa: does "asciilifeform" have any ideas for how WWW might have been fixed?
gregorynyssa: should every page be required to declare all outgoing links in a header-section?
gregorynyssa: do you disagree with plaintext-nature of HTML? should there have been a compilation-step
gregorynyssa: between the raw HTML page and the published page?
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: see also.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-30#1112643 << what would that give ?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-30 03:56:51 gregorynyssa: should every page be required to declare all outgoing links in a header-section?
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-30#1112647 << it would allow links between pages to be known without parsing/executing the body of the document.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-30 11:11:25 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-30#1112643 << what would that give ?
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-30#1112646 << this is Alan Kay's hypothetical approach but there are disadvantages.
gregorynyssa: also, I don't think that provides built-in support for back-links.
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-30#1112651 << replace the word "this" with "the application-delivery model of the web"
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-30 17:41:18 gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-30#1112646 << this is Alan Kay's hypothetical approach but there are disadvantages.
gregorynyssa: the disadvantage of this approach is that webpages cease to be documents.
gregorynyssa: the WWW is built upon an application/document duality.
gregorynyssa: also, tracing references between objects is a separate taxonomy from URLs.
gregorynyssa: unless you want to impose a strict transformation rule between them, such that www.news.com/read/article/23 must first fetch the "read" object then the "article object"
gregorynyssa: in one of Dr Kay's talks, he actually implied this.
gregorynyssa: ie. he wants every segment of every URL to be the name of an object.
jonsykkel: gregorynyssa: i see your messages
gregorynyssa: jonsykkel: great. I guess that I need to run my own Blatta to diagnose the problem.
jonsykkel: not familiar with the code but might wana look at its behiavor on recving selfchain=0
jonsykkel: only unusual thing i can see with ur messages anyway
gregorynyssa: jonsykkel: yep. I am aware that the self-chain field is currently zero.
gregorynyssa: even if they reject invalid messages with invalid self-chain fields, the first message of the sequence should have gone through.
gregorynyssa: edit: even if they reject messages with invalid self-chain fields, the first message of the sequence should have gone through.
jonsykkel: indeed