Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans
← 2022-07-26 | 2022-07-28 → ↓
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: are you saying that 32 Opteron cores are required to decrypt Serpent at line-rate?
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: I do not have anywhere near that. (=
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: signpost: I regret not having purchased and devoted time toward learning LispWorks and/or Allegro Common Lisp back in college.
gregorynyssa: asciilifeform: signpost: there really seems to be no substitute. how are your experimentations of those two platforms coming along?
gregorynyssa: thimbronion: I meant to tag you as well.
crtdaydreams grinding out his impl. in sbcl/android repl
crtdaydreams: haven't played around with lispwercs or any of those fancy proprietary dists. are they really worth it?
shinohai: crtdaydreams: You're using arm64 sbcl on Android? Lemme know if you get past the `save-lisp-and-die` strange. xD
crtdaydreams: shinohai: not using specifically sbcl on android, using cl-repl or whatever the existing android app is
crtdaydreams: I haven't messed around much with implementation-specific functions (and don't intend to for portability reasons)
crtdaydreams: using sbcl on desktop
shinohai: ah ok. sbcl & ecl both work great for me in termux, but you know the caveats with Android over processes, etc which kind tie hands.
crtdaydreams: ecl, aha that's what the damn things called again lolz
shinohai: *kind of
crtdaydreams: only just installed termux today, was just using ecl before to hack while cooking dinner :P
crtdaydreams: dunno if I'll need it much, it's really just ftp files back and forth
shinohai: termux nice for running a gentoo chroot when one is in the field and doesn't want to lug a lappy around.
crtdaydreams finds touchscreen typing insufferable for running shell, programming w/ ecl is forgivable
crtdaydreams: because of the parens and nav floating buttons
crtdaydreams: you'd need to lug around a usbc kbd or somethin to really make use of a remote chroot like that
crtdaydreams: which then "wai not laptop, bigger screen and trackpad anyway"
shinohai: I have one of those chinesium bluetooth kbds ... so vim+slimv+paredit makes tinkering on the go tolerable.
crtdaydreams: like the 40% kbds where it's a super key to type numbers etc?
shinohai: crtdaydreams: This thing, cost like $5 but suits my needs: http://btc.info.gf/uploads/KBD.jpg
crtdaydreams has one exactly like that, shelved
crtdaydreams: Forgot I had the damn thing tbh
crtdaydreams: battery blew up in it before got to use it for any practical purposes
shinohai: There were 2 models, the bluetooth kind and the 2.4 GHz one, I got the bluetooth one so didn't hafta fuss about with a usb dongle.
crtdaydreams: I got the dongle one, I think I used it for xbox360 keyboard at one pt
crtdaydreams: lol, but after like 3 charges the batt expanded and I couldn't put it in properly anymore so it wouldn't make contact
crtdaydreams: still would be useful for direct-connect kbd in emergency
shinohai: Yeah the batteries are straight junk, I think I got a pack of 3 replacements on Amazon that have been going strong year+ now.
crtdaydreams: yeah righto
crtdaydreams: when I looked at them I struggled to find one from a non-botnet site for <$15
crtdaydreams: that was some ~2 years ago now
crtdaydreams: that was just for a single batt mind you
crtdaydreams: dunno if it's worth revising
crtdaydreams going to return to the repl now o/ shinohai
shinohai: o/ be well
signpost: gregorynyssa: I've never used one of the commercial lisps. asciilifeform and phf have, I believe.
signpost: fielded a hardware product that used clozurecl and some web services that used sbcl though.
gregorynyssa: signpost: nice. that is much farther than I have gotten.
gregorynyssa: I have read many books and papers regarding the LISP languages without really using them.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: asciilifeform not used the commercial lisps 'in anger' (at any serious length anyway)
gregorynyssa: in anger over what?
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: i.e. for actual work
gregorynyssa: I recall that Erik Naggum said some good things about the commercial implementations.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: phf used, commented at length
gregorynyssa: I remember trying to use Armed Bear Common Lisp briefly while in college.
gregorynyssa: then I read the "Thumbs Down for Clojure" post.
gregorynyssa: so much work has gone into the JVM over the years, but it remains hard to solve basic problems using that engine.
gregorynyssa: * to solve some basic problems.
gregorynyssa: IMO, if you just need TCP/UDP and file-processing, JVM is decent.
shinohai: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112365 << The comments section of that post have always been a fave of mine, with the "Hacker" "News" apologists showing up to defend.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-27 10:03:55 gregorynyssa: then I read the "Thumbs Down for Clojure" post.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: maybe easier to understand e.g. clojurism if you realize that there were then (and still nao) 'over9000' wretches condemned to life in java salt mines; items like 'armed bear', clojure, were rather analogous to the pin-ups seen in prison cells, folx were trying to make their imprisonment slightly moar tolerable.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: asciilifeform's objection was re 'this is the Troo Modern Lisp!' etc. nonsense.
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-07-27#1112373 << of course. the ejection of Java stack-traces whenever a program crashes ruins the utility of the system.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-07-27 10:32:08 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: asciilifeform's objection was re 'this is the Troo Modern Lisp!' etc. nonsense.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: rright, but afaik no one went 'hmm, i wanna write the perfect modern lisp, where shall i do it? hmm jvm'. orig. audience was folx already condemned to jvm
asciilifeform: i.e. thing was a kludge
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010729 << the use of "Lisp" (uppercase L, lowercase "isp") to refer to CL, Scheme, etc. collectively is a "Paul Grahamism."
dulapbot: (pest) 2022-07-27 phf[asciilifeform]: asciilifeform, i have no idea if the man does things, i thought that particular quote was a little gem. refering to language as “LISP”, read many papers /and books/ not written any. if we had an eqv of bashorg, ought to put the quote there
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010753 << Maclisp/MacLisp was the name of a particular language, not the class of languages.
dulapbot: (pest) 2022-07-27 phf[asciilifeform]: from my reading of relevant papers, you start seeing e.g. MACLISP refered to as MacLisp or Maclisp around 79, although in private correspondce even earlier
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/pest/2022-07-27#1010754 << Paul Graham was not the first to use "Lisp" to refer to the class, but LISP was also prevalent until his 2000s essays, which settled the matter.
dulapbot: (pest) 2022-07-27 phf[asciilifeform]: my '84 edition of lisp machine manual refers to various lisps as "Common Lisp" "Zetalisp" "Maclisp" and in general "Lisp"
gregorynyssa: the cult-following which developed around Paul Graham and Arc shot down the usage of LISP.
asciilifeform: mats: not 1st time iirc
asciilifeform: mats: rather typical: in 'banana republics' (both with and 'without bananas') they dun have the fine-grained reich infrastructure for censoring twatter etc.; so fuhrer is stuck ordering the plug pulled
mats: they've shut it off at least three times this year
asciilifeform: mats: recall the famous cn response after 'tiananmen' -- 'we're a poor country, and dun have usa's fancy humane riot gear'
mats: i remember reading almost a decade ago that the internet shuts off during national university exam day
mats: which is hilarious
asciilifeform: isuppose the 'modern' way to cheat is w/ pnoje in arse, rather than old-fashioned crib sheets
asciilifeform: '3 buzz ringtones, pause, followed by 5 means answer to q no.3 is 'e' or sumthinglikethat
asciilifeform recalls a scandal in early 2000s on usa's 'sat' exam involving conspirators w/ phones on both coasts and marked pencils smuggled into toilets
mats: and i thought i was smart putting notes in my calculator
asciilifeform: ^ extra lulzy for folx who know that at that point in time the thing was already watered down into being effectively a test of 'do you have a fucking pulse'
asciilifeform: for overseas folx -- this re usa 'sat', which features strictly basic arithmetic and english lang
asciilifeform: ( well, and a bit of simple euclidean school problems, 'what is the missing angle in this triangle' etc )
mats: i read that the sat exam is being changed again, with a 2h test and adaptive questions
mats: it was 4 hours when i took it
asciilifeform: iirc was mechanized in mid 2000s, but nfi what's in it nao
mats: its also optional in application packets to many universities
asciilifeform: mats: lol! what do they take instead nao? photo proving yer skin is black enuff ?
mats: grades and activities probably
asciilifeform: lulzy given how whole orig. impetus behind 'let's have a standard exam' was that schools vary
asciilifeform: afaik in erry half-civilized country there is sumthing resembling a standard entrance exam for uni
mats: demographics are changing quickly, and if trends haven't changed from four years ago when i last looked, every year high schools have steadily graduated increasingly more hispanic and black students
asciilifeform wonders what kinda exam in mexico
mats: who are less likely to afford university enrollment, or be competitive during enrollment
asciilifeform: in usa not even much point in such exams, as unis are run as commercial orgs and 'moar meat, moar moolah'
asciilifeform: (elsewhere , where limited # of seats, and students still get stipends, rather than paying 1e5$/y, exams)
mats: >As cited in a Wall Street Journal article, “in the next few years, two women will earn a college degree for every man, if the trend continues.”
mats: interesting
asciilifeform: mats: iirc u of md already ~65/35% f/m
asciilifeform: casual visual inspection on street seems to confirm
mats: if only i was 18 again
mats: man
asciilifeform: not necessarily a valhalla, if mp was to be believed most of these chix may as well've'been sewed closed
asciilifeform: (and the remainder are all fucking the same 6 local mp lol)
asciilifeform not zoophiliac, so cannot comment concretely
mats: you would destroy them emotionally
mats: "didn't you learn how to use vinegar properly? they teach this in kindergarten" followed by spitting and spanking
signpost: why so down on spanking
signpost: but no, I don't want any 18yo american bitches either, tyvm.
asciilifeform: mats: that was mp's thing, rather than asciilifeform's, lol
asciilifeform: ( and iirc the queue lined up to 'get destroyed emotionally' was measured in kilometres )
asciilifeform: sadomasochism is evidently an actual thing.
asciilifeform: signpost: asciilifeform often wonders if there in fact is a 'seekrit' exodus of 'surplus' males from usa into the 'free world'
asciilifeform: ( can't imagine it'd be 'on front page' if were happening )
asciilifeform: republikflucht(tm)(r)(ddr)
asciilifeform: these folx can't ~all~ be 'escaping' into vodka/reddit.
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