Show Idle (>14 d.) Chans


← 2022-02-25 | 2022-02-27 →
d4 is amused fun looking at cryptonomicon
d4: s/fun//
mats: see, buying the invasion would have been a solid play
shinohai: $vwap
busybot: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 39142.77 USD
asciilifeform: ... cement testbed at 472+k.
shinohai: thimbronion: 9982 pressed fine, am fiddling with knobs and will try to connect shortly.
billymg: cgra: very cool. i think something like that would be useful if built-in to mp-wp (not for you perhaps, since you've already rolled your own, but for others in the future). something that one could point to a directory containing patches organized by vtree and have it auto-generate more or less what you have on your www
billymg: cgra: btw, how do you feel about the less-enormous pile of '???' after using it for a few months?
billymg: part of me still would like to make something out of it, but it's hard to motivate myself to work on something no one really cares about
billymg: seems that most who use mp-wp, myself included even, do so because in the mp era it was declared the standard and because it works
billymg: looking at the php internals is so off putting i can see why no one *likes* using it
verisimilitude: Besides comments, why use it at all, billymg?
billymg: verisimilitude: because i don't know what else to use instead, any suggestions? (yes, comment system would be a requirement)
verisimilitude: I just write everything by hand, and don't yet have an automatic comments system, so no.
verisimilitude: Someone less allergic to other software could probably just use a comments system from elsewhere for that, though.
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1080979 << can't say i'm too familiar with the php stack so thought i'd use that name :) but overall, i fell back to the tinymce approach (knitted together a localhost "wysiwyg" editor hack), because couldn't stand hand-cranking that many trb links and code tags as i did. another thing is not sure yet why couldn't i access the admin page through ssh-forwarded port, intending to give it
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 11:42:34 billymg: cgra: btw, how do you feel about the less-enormous pile of '???' after using it for a few months?
cgra: an another look sometime
verisimilitude: This would be easy for a website such as mine, in which the comments are on other pages.
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1080978 << as these are static pages, they don't need a server-side generator. perhaps only something for highlight-linking, say, multi-line highlights at minimum.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 11:40:51 billymg: cgra: very cool. i think something like that would be useful if built-in to mp-wp (not for you perhaps, since you've already rolled your own, but for others in the future). something that one could point to a directory containing patches organized by vtree and have it auto-generate more or less what you have on your www
billymg: verisimilitude: i like the sidebar that updates based on content as well, and that archive and category pages are generated automatically, and that it's all searchable
billymg: cgra: i hate using wysiwyg editors because they tend to spit out very ugly html with inline styles everywhere, but i have come to appreciate the select text -> ctrl-k scheme for generating links used in some editors
verisimilitude: Well, that would require much more work, yes.
cgra: billymg: oh, and one minor detail: personally i would find yearly archive grouping more suitable myself than monthly. and anyone else with 0-2 articles/month :)
verisimilitude: Internet speeds are so great, I put everything on one page, not that it's large anyway.
billymg: cgra: i agree it's a pain hand-editing though
billymg: cgra: heh, good point
billymg: how would you feel about a box that ate markdown instead of html?
billymg: that could at least be configured to spit out clean html, which you then style manually with css, and doesn't require a JS textbox
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1080994 << i had the same feeling from the earlier usage, but see for example my latest, look for 'storycontent', and it's pretty alright wysiwyg output
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 14:01:02 billymg: cgra: i hate using wysiwyg editors because they tend to spit out very ugly html with inline styles everywhere, but i have come to appreciate the select text -> ctrl-k scheme for generating links used in some editors
billymg: cgra: ah, yeah, very clean
cgra: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081000 << atm the hack i have, works reasonably well, so it's now sunk somewhat low in priority to think of a better replacement
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 14:03:23 billymg: how would you feel about a box that ate markdown instead of html?
cgra: if i had to guess though, long link texts might still throw your concentration annoyingly off from actual writing
cgra: ah, but i'm already adding links as a last, separate step, so may not apply
billymg: cgra: re: the code viewer, i was thinking of server side vpressing, i think like what whaack describes here but only for what the blog owner puts there
bitbot: Logged on 2022-02-19 15:53:16 whaack: http://btcbase.org/patches <-- phf are you around? this is a great tool. i think that updating this site shoul be made automatic. there should be a way to submit a vpatch , and if it has a sig from the host's l1, then the vpatch is automatically submitted and the version graph is automatically updated
billymg: cgra: i also do that, i wrap the words i want to link in [] and come back to it at the end
cgra: i'm not sure if vpatch volume is high enough that it needed server-side automation, while phf's chart certainly is neat
billymg: also a fair point
cgra: ah and if blog owner puts it there anyway, not his l1, what's the difference if the html generator runs on his desktop?
billymg: yes, true
billymg: you're right, it could be a separate set of tools that one runs locally, then uploads to some directory on their server. doesn't need to be stored anywhere in the mp-wp db
cgra: billymg: gives you more choice in picking your favourite sewing needle. and even if pages are stored in the db, prolly still applies. if wanted multi-line code highlight, then you'd likely best off with a minimal mpwp tweak on top of that
billymg: i think i'm trying to solve problems for users that i imagine exist but don't actually. as in, turn v into something like github so that "anyone can use it". but who is this "anyone" that would select v over git in the first place, and what would they do with it?
bitbot: (trilema) 2016-01-18 ascii_butugychag: btw i hope everybody understands that life with 'v' is always going to resemble dark age blood sports like cvs, etc. far more than modern greased poles (e.g., 'git')
verisimilitude: I'll eventually choose V over git, but I wouldn't use vhub.
billymg: verisimilitude: exactly
signpost: what's needed is a decentralized mechanism where I can say "give me the vpatch which yields the antecedent I need for $hash"
signpost: not a centralized item.
signpost: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1080973 << every major market collapse has bull traps the whole way down. are you telling me you know how high they'll bounce?
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 09:41:32 mats: see, buying the invasion would have been a solid play
signpost: swing trade, sure, but you're speaking in finbro memethought
verisimilitude: That almost seems like Bittorrent, signpost.
signpost: couple of things wrong with bittorrent, but it's not a terrible analogy.
signpost: relies on centralized "bootstrap" nodes even for "trackerless" torrents, for example.
signpost: all peers being equal is another problem.
verisimilitude: If I were to remark on how asciilifeform has educated me in three ways, I'd note random number generation, flaws with the Internet, and a good attitude to have on computing in general. Be there truly no good way to send a large packet without fragmentation through the Internet, asciilifeform; it must require splitting it into chunks somehow?
verisimilitude: Doesn't the DHT mechanism only require knowing of any node, similarly to DNS, signpost?
signpost: there is a "don't fragment" flag in the IP header, but admittedly I am not an expert on how it's handled.
signpost: naively, I'd expect that DF header set, plus MTU discovery by increasing packet size, plus a signal back from the far end, would tell you how large you can go
signpost: perhaps this DF field is ignored somewhere along the way
signpost: verisimilitude: I believe the clients carry along their own bootstrap nodes hard-coded, though perhaps some of them allow configuration
verisimilitude: That flag can result in an ICMP error response, signpost.
signpost: right, that tells you the maximum transmission unit, when you get an error, right?
verisimilitude: I don't recall.
verisimilitude: The reason Pest uses its size is because that's the minimum transmission unit.
verisimilitude: Still, that's too small for many interesting protocols.
signpost: yeah, it puts a limit on the rateless code for example
signpost: gets much slower with smaller block sizes.
signpost: though there is likely lots of room for optimization in my implementation, and even without it was doing a few megabytes per second on one core
verisimilitude: For something in the future, I'd prefer to be able to use packets at least a few kibibytes in size.
verisimilitude: IP fragmentation was easy to ignore in the IETF RFC, but it's clearly broken after asciilifeform explained the issues.
signpost: I provided a knob in mine.
signpost: yeah curious to hear from asciilifeform why one can't use MTU discovery with don't-frag
signpost will be entirely unsurprised if there's a good reason
verisimilitude: I'd recognized by myself why the top secret security clearance IP header feature was stupid, but not fragmentation.
verisimilitude: Another thing about the Internet is how it's really not designed for anything but messages. It can't really provide a stream like the telephone network could, because the telephone network effectively established a physical line. A packet-switching network could do this, by reserving buffers and establishing a chain of reserved buffers, but this would need some way to restrict the reservation to avoid issues, such as identificati
signpost: reasoning through it, one reason higher MTU might be dangerous is allowing the enemy to cause you to rediscover MTU, say by changing routes on you, or whatever else.
signpost: I could still see reason to opportunistically blast bits at a peer as fast as one can in certain cases.
signpost: not with pest packets, no need, but for things which can degrade with less harm.
signpost: mats: what do you make of the increased s&p put volume since last year, for example?
signpost: "hedges only cost money bro!"
signpost: and I'm not beating you up here, just having the thread.
signpost: one place I've been looking is commodities. they appear to have done pretty well after the other recent large crashes.
signpost: I know next to nothing about investing in commidities, so I'm just saying I'm reading about it, not giving advice.
verisimilitude: Why not learn how to count cards and visit the casinos instead, signpost?
signpost: because casinos are for taxing the poor, and capital markets are for taxing the rich, of course.
signpost chuckles
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081033 << 'don't frag' simply means 'drop rather than frag' ftr.
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 16:15:33 signpost: there is a "don't fragment" flag in the IP header, but admittedly I am not an expert on how it's handled.
asciilifeform: i.e. will get dropped if somewhere along transit sumbody would've have normally fragged it
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081034 << this'd work if could assume that it'll always traverse same route. which often enuff aint the case (even if neither yer own station nor the other side's is on a moving train etc)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 16:15:58 signpost: naively, I'd expect that DF header set, plus MTU discovery by increasing packet size, plus a signal back from the far end, would tell you how large you can go
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081042 << well if yer using luby, turbo, etc. can set it up so some % of the packets are 'fat', but will still converge if these dun make it to other side, cuz redundancy
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 16:18:31 signpost: yeah, it puts a limit on the rateless code for example
asciilifeform: ... simply will take longer.
signpost: yep yep
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 16:22:18 signpost: yeah curious to hear from asciilifeform why one can't use MTU discovery with don't-frag
signpost: ended up reasoning out the "MTU ain't fixed for all time, stupid" matter slightly farther on
asciilifeform: if the dice fall a certain way, you can indeed reliably send/receive 'obese' packets. problem is, can't know apriori, and can't rely on the dice to fall thusly
asciilifeform: the other thing, afaik we dun currently have 'don't reassemble' turned on anywhere, so can't even reliably test (atm you'll see 'obese' packets go through as if they actually had, whereas what actually happens is that os reassembles, and this is a ddosable mechanism , cuz frags aint signed )
signpost: sounds like best move is to pack several check blocks of min-UDP size into the fatties, such that they can be used with the smaller ones.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081061 << capital markets still for (indirectly, via pension scams etc) 'taxing the poor' lol
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 16:34:56 signpost: because casinos are for taxing the poor, and capital markets are for taxing the rich, of course.
asciilifeform: signpost: well several luby quanta at any rate
signpost: right
signpost: if they arrive, hooray, maybe they unlock a few xor chains of data for ya. if not, just wait longer for enough tinies.
signpost: one'd have to reason about making sure you're not biasing parts of the distribution into fat dispatches too
signpost: such that you're harming the rate at which the tinies converge.
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2022-02-26#1081051 << you dun have control over latency at any juncture, important to note. (in olden days existed e.g. 'frame relay' where in fact reserved timeslots. but we dun have this on general-purpose internet)
dulapbot: Logged on 2022-02-26 16:25:58 verisimilitude: Another thing about the Internet is how it's really not designed for anything but messages. It can't really provide a stream like the telephone network could, because the telephone network effectively established a physical line. A packet-switching network could do this, by reserving buffers and establishing a chain of reserved buffers, but this would need some way to restrict the reservation to avoid issues, such as identificati
asciilifeform: i.e. you can't actually emulate circuit switching over a packet network, any moar than you can 'push a rope'
asciilifeform must bbl, very short on time, but hopefully answered basic q.
signpost: appreciate it, take care
verisimilitude: Well, what I described assumed the packet-switching network could make guarantees, but this requires each switcher to communicate with each other; it doesn't apply to the Internet, no.
verisimilitude: Here's a fun fact, asciilifeform, I came across ``a priori'' not long ago, and realized it was wrong; the Ā PRIŌRĪ is dative, whereas Ā requires an ablative; the correct form is actually Ā PRIŌRE. Isn't that neat?
verisimilitude: I don't believe the creators of the Internet would've cheered letting the telephone system literally rot to be replaced by it.
mats: signpost: people seeing frothiness and subsequently hedging, but also a general rise in options contracts vol due to retail shmucks
mats: hard to find think of anything novel or interesting to say about something so broad
signpost: so help me see the difference between your permabull comments and what was said before and during any previous major crash?
signpost: https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm << seems like the demo with peloton subscription money is dwindling.
signpost: https://app.koyfin.com/cmty << gotta explain why the inputs to manufacturing and food skyrocketing are actually good, too.
signpost: at the very least, they compress profit margins, assuming companies can eat the higher input costs. so then you have to explain why P/E will increase forever, rather than mean-revert.
signpost is hearing quite a lot of "hopeless if true, so can't be so" from meatwot. reality doesn't care.
billymg: "if true" meaning if market crashes?
signpost: take it as broadly as you like.
billymg: well doesn't "crash" mean relative to USD? so if you're
signpost: s&p is already down about 10%; that's not froth.
billymg: sorry, ...if you're "bearish" you're actually bullish on USD
billymg: hard for me to be bullish on USD these days
billymg: seeing as how the collective west is trying to win a war against russia by #cancelling putin
signpost: billymg: I mean, the central bank definitely can yank enough liquidity out of the system to crash both assets and prices of whatever slop is left on the grocery shelves.
verisimilitude: Putin will buckle any day now; he can't just ignore criticism.
signpost: verisimilitude: you know, "unprecedented" may be the most american of the adjectives.
verisimilitude: I see countless people on Twitter, Reddit, and Hacker News looking to bring Putin to heel.
verisimilitude: He's just like Voldemort, as we know.
billymg: verisimilitude: you had me there for a second, thought you were being serious
signpost: hahaha, me as well.
signpost: billymg: https://app.koyfin.com/share/4eb13db5fc << "this time is different"
signpost: then later they'll say "unprecedented drop in equities!"
signpost: "unprecedented inflation/supply-chain issues/shortages"
billymg: would be lulzy if equities drop and btc moons
signpost: btc seems pretty vulnerable to the money printer mid-cycle
billymg: so they can queue up the "holders are literally terrorists" headlines
signpost: but '24 is not too far away.
signpost: yeah, I'm glad I have no BTC.
billymg: yeah, same
shinohai: verisimilitude: Here's how the West will defeat totalitarians like Putin: http://btc.info.gf/uploads/TROONS1.png
billymg: lol, are shinohai and i the only ones here who browse the shitposts on 4chan for entertainment?
mats: i wouldn't characterise what i said as permabull
shinohai: Only worx if you use 4chan-X
billymg: shinohai: what's that?
verisimilitude: Oh, I'm not the only imageboard user here?
shinohai: billymg: It's a userscript for tampermonkey that let's you filter bait posts, expand images, etc.
billymg: shinohai: ah, neat, will have to check it out
mats: moreover, plenty of people have been predicting crashes for years, while losing money for years, like einhorn
mats: its very edgy and drives clicks, but unless you're einhorn and putting money where your mouth is, it rings hollow
verisimilitude: So, be either of you users of 4chan's /pol/, billymg and shinohai?
signpost: mats: I gave an alternative to btfd in stocks.
signpost: will gladly eat my hat right here if it eats shit.
shinohai: verisimilitude: occasionally browse it when bored.
verisimilitude: I'm just wondering if either of you be ``election tourists''.
mats: i bought the bitcorns and don't invest in equities, except i guess the few low four digit index fund accounts over the years, but i don't think it'll be immune to crashes, they are risk-on assets
signpost: yeah, agreed. bitcoin will have a near-term crash if the rest crashes.
mats: there have been so many crashes i stopped counting
billymg: verisimilitude: yeah, i load the catalog now and then when i'm bored
verisimilitude: I no longer use 4chan much, but it's how I wound up here. I seem to recall seeing Loper-OS around a decade ago on 4chan's /g/, and reading it over the years.
verisimilitude: There are much better imageboards, however.
mats: pton's free cash flow numbers are very good, from what i remember in their last report
shinohai: /g/ is about the only sane board left. /b/ generally gets filtered to single page
signpost: mats: just looks like an exemplar of "luxury good"
signpost: maybe the techtard class is large enough for them to sustain it.
verisimilitude: That board was garbage back when I still used it, shinohai.
mats: same thing with resto hardware, its a veblen good and will resist declines during a prolonged market rout better than most
shinohai: Well to be fair, it's *always* been garbage.
signpost: mats: yeah, quite agree that e.g. Square is a good company.
mats: veblen makers are a decent inflation and rising inequality hedge
verisimilitude: It's been mentioned before, but care for a link to a decent imageboard?
signpost considered going there after last $megacorp job, but farting around with own projects for a bit first.
signpost: my last company was restaurant online ordering, started right after 08-09 crash, was timed well.
signpost: that industry churns over continuously.
mats: is anyone earning money yet
mats: i haven't watched that segment at all, but i noticed uber only recently turned a profit
signpost: we did fine, but we were tiny, and didn't touch fulfillment, just facilitated it with other providers
mats: after losing uncountable billions for, like, a solid decade
verisimilitude: If only I'd the opportunity to lose billions of US dollars.
signpost: cash incinerator
signpost: and they can't stop, because the driver incentives are the only way to keep capacity
signpost: delivery sucks; I would never touch it
verisimilitude: I've been in awe at the behaviour these companies have inspired.
verisimilitude: ``Noooooo, I can't talk to a person on the phone to order my food, I have anxiety, noooo!''
mats: there were a lot of these in taipei, food couriered around by kids on mopeds
signpost: I hear it works okay in India too, comparable culture of food-runners.
mats: kids who regularly got serious road rash and externalised the cost onto the national healthcare system
mats: privatise the profits and socialise the losses!
signpost: right, I don't know about taipei, but in india also vast subculture of poor who are willing to do the shitwork for nothing.
signpost: certain businesses are just going to need slavery or socialism (or both) to make the numbers "work"
mats: everyone with a car has shitty window tint, can't see shit
mats: but they also all have dash cams so i guess it works
mats: lul
signpost: speaking of dash cams, jesus christ the auto-tuned slav-rap.
verisimilitude: I don't eat out much, but I'm still human enough to pick up my food for myself, or even eat at the restaurant.
verisimilitude: The bar keeps falling.
signpost: verisimilitude: when I lived in Houston there was a nice old-school restaurant run by a Romanian gent, used to love going there.
signpost: at the end of the evening he'd come by the tables to say hello, chat
signpost: human interaction is the only reason to be alive.
verisimilitude: I personally enjoy Chinese buffets.
verisimilitude: Does interacting with dead humans, that's called reading, count?
verisimilitude: Still, even I've noticed I get the most long-term enjoyment out of something when I do it with others.
signpost: yeah, I'd say it does.
verisimilitude: I suppose I'm a recluse, but this newer group is getting ready to get in the pods.
verisimilitude: Care for a joke I wrote years ago, yet have had no context in which to use it so far?
signpost: if you like
verisimilitude: AI is Artificial Intelligence and IA is Intelligence Amplification, but amplifying humanity as a whole would be HA meaning Humanity Amplification or Humanity Amplified.
signpost: not my favorite
verisimilitude: It's an acquired taste.
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