asciilifeform: !w poll
watchglass: Polling 16 nodes...
watchglass: 205.134.172.26:8333 : Alive: (0.069s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
watchglass: 205.134.172.27:8333 : Alive: (0.086s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.6:8333 : (172-6.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.083s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
watchglass: 108.31.170.3:8333 : (pool-108-31-170-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net) Alive: (0.098s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804 (Operator: asciilifeform)
watchglass: 205.134.172.4:8333 : (172-4.core.ai.net) Alive: (0.084s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
watchglass: 54.39.156.171:8333 : (ns562940.ip-54-39-156.net) Alive: (0.121s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
watchglass: 143.202.160.10:8333 : Alive: (0.237s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
watchglass: 208.94.240.42:8333 : Alive: (0.205s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
watchglass: 176.9.59.199:8333 : (static.199.59.9.176.clients.your-server.de) Alive: (0.285s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=391662 (Operator: jurov)
watchglass: 185.85.38.54:8333 : (tlapnet-38-54.cust.tlapnet.cz) Alive: (0.358s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
watchglass: 213.109.238.156:8333 : Alive: (0.274s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650565
watchglass: 192.151.158.26:8333 : Alive: (0.244s) V=70001 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.7.0.1/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Blocks=650804
watchglass: 205.134.172.28:8333 : Alive: (0.168s) V=99999 (/therealbitcoin.org:0.9.99.99/) Jumpers=0x1 (TRB-Compat.) Return Addr=0.0.0.0:8333 Blocks=618273 (Operator: whaack)
asciilifeform: $vwap
BusyBot: The 24-Hour VWAP for BTC is $ 10884.88 USD
watchglass: 84.16.46.130:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
watchglass: 103.36.92.112:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
watchglass: 185.163.46.29:8333 : Violated BTC Protocol: Bad header length!
gregorynyssa: is there a plan to re-write TRB from scratch using some language other than C++?
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: but this does not yet add up to 'rewrite trb'.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: the principal difficulty in 'rewrite trb', historically, is the massive bag of bugs an' warts, where omitting any particular item risks an exploitable (quiet 'fork') break of compatibility in unspecified future
gregorynyssa: I knew that the semantics of PRB were not airtight, but what you are describing is worse than I had imagined.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: indeed, most n00bs to the subj are quite astonished when faced w/ the depth of the hell.
gregorynyssa: when I have the time, I would like to create a sort of catalog of all of those glitches.
gregorynyssa: that way, we can finally reduce Bitcoin to an instrumentable system rather than a "user experience."
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: not all known, sadly.
asciilifeform: ( behavioural spaces of e.g. bdb, openssl, are ~infinite pits of ??? )
gregorynyssa: true, but to some extent, the same argument could be applied toward running Bitcoin on
gregorynyssa: different archs. such as x86 vs. x64 vs. ARM.
asciilifeform: to this day afaik not much bitcoinism happening outside of x64.
gregorynyssa: "to this day afaik not much bitcoinism happening outside of x64." then that basically seals the problem.
gregorynyssa: I respect Ethereum for having a spec.. have you tried using that platform?
gregorynyssa: or is the "there can only be one chain" argument sufficient to deter you?
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: eth is usg's Official 'replacement' for bitcoin. see logs.
gregorynyssa: will read. thanks.
asciilifeform: subj was beaten to death elaborately in '16-18, in #t.
gregorynyssa: I have yet to comprehensively examine #trilema.
asciilifeform: upstack : a proper adaization of trb would turn bitcoin from 'piece of shit written by some anon and variously barnacled on since' into actual specced item. the problem is that there is massive risk (of exploitable 'silent fork' behaviour) , substantial effort req'd, and reward -- is zero.
asciilifeform: so 'don't hold breath'
gregorynyssa: it looks like there is no way out of this mess. oh man..
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: it's exactly same bind as for other opensores products.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: no one is going to ever massively profit from writing a better (for any sense of word) btc client. imho the reason for this is quite obvious, does not need elaborate explanation.
gregorynyssa: I am not looking to profit from the endeavor by itself.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho there aint anyffin wrong w/ trying ( jfw, for instance, went off to sell trb. i have nfi, however, what became of this.. ) but be aware of the history of folx trying to profit from 'better compiler' and similar .
gregorynyssa: the greater tragedy is that new operating systems in the future won't be able to support Bitcoin.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: why exactly not ?
asciilifeform: e.g. nintendo's os already 'does not support bitcoin'. in what sense is this interesting ?
asciilifeform: ~any~ os for which can be said 'does not support xyz..' is variant of nintendo.
gregorynyssa: since Bitcoin is implementation-defined, it is tied to C++, "bdb," and so forth.
gregorynyssa: so a future version of Terry Davis (RIP) or Chuck Moore wouldn't be able to create
gregorynyssa: his own system which plugs into Bitcoin's network.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: so, what? to write emulator (for whatever current or future irons) in which these can live, is trivial exercise .
asciilifeform: not to mention, absolutely nuffin stops anyone from writing own btc client. at own risk. simply no one gives a shit.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform expects, if lives another 5-10y, to publish ada client. will use for own needs, does not expect anyone else to, and specifically uninterested in potential whines re 'what if breaks compat.!1111'
asciilifeform: it would not even astonish me to discover that folx have already written, simply did not bother to publish, such a thing.
asciilifeform: there is very little reward for publishing softs.
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-01#1022692 << emulation diminishes the possibility of instrumentation, so it is not my preferred approach.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 19:08:15 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: so, what? to write emulator (for whatever current or future irons) in which these can live, is trivial exercise .
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: now i'm thoroughly confused. diminishes ?!
asciilifeform: if anyffin -- is the only truly effective means of instrumentation .
gregorynyssa: I think I am using the term "instrumentation" differently
asciilifeform: a good % of what asciilifeform knows re mips arch., gcc, and linux kernel -- in fact learned in the process of writing 'm' .
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-01#1022694 << I am please to hear that you will attempt this. I would like to try as well.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 19:10:00 asciilifeform: asciilifeform expects, if lives another 5-10y, to publish ada client. will use for own needs, does not expect anyone else to, and specifically uninterested in potential whines re 'what if breaks compat.!1111'
gregorynyssa: * pleased to hear
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: i expect at least handful of folx not only tried, but succeeded. simply, found no incentive to publish .
asciilifeform: there are (imho -- ~incurable) perverse incentives at work, which ensure that most of extant softs is liquishit, while the good stuff -- you will ~never hear about .
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: not only 'attempt', but , as noted earlier, most of the req'd pieces already on asciilifeform's desk. simply, haven't currently any reason to hurry to glue'em further.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 15:00:29 asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: there's not a thing that'd rise to the level of 'plan'. asciilifeform in particular wrote 3 things: 'nqb', a largely-complete coder/decoder for the formats used in trb; ffa, with which possible to perform the cryptonumerics; and 'cryostat', to implement a o(1) db .
gregorynyssa: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2020-10-01#1022707 << I want to note that this is similar to the allegation made in the past that many companies are using elaborate Common Lisp systems in secret -- not denying this is true.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-10-01 19:19:53 asciilifeform: there are (imho -- ~incurable) perverse incentives at work, which ensure that most of extant softs is liquishit, while the good stuff -- you will ~never hear about .
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: several such co.'s were revealed (e.g. 'orbitz') at one time or another
asciilifeform: usually the 'unveil' happens when the firm is sold and 'delisped'.
asciilifeform: see also .
gregorynyssa: are Orbitz and ITA the same company?
gregorynyssa: the ITA example is well known, yes.
asciilifeform: same co., iirc 'orbitz' was the trademark for the product itself.
asciilifeform: gregorynyssa: imho it is not even deliberate (as in commercial works) secrecy that explains 'you will not see quality softs'. simply the fact that garbage is what becomes popular by attracting 'fixers'.
snsabot: Logged on 2020-09-25 13:51:31 asciilifeform: verisimilitude: interestingly, not only money. piles o'shit attract 'fixers'. working systems -- not so much.