thimbronion: Anyone here understand what mp meant by 'opposable' as discussed here: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2016-12-28#1592313 ?
snsabot: (trilema) 2016-12-28 mircea_popescu: anyway, phf 's notion of "recourse" is a lot more important than directly obvious in context ; it's a direct restatement of the "opposable" concept used in discussing deedbot payment design, and altogetgher the trestlework of sanity in operations.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: 'opposable' in this context is simply inverse of 'deniable'. e.g. a pgp sig, displayed publicly, is opposable -- cannot be repudiated by the signer
asciilifeform: ( see also his original argument for 'don't sign ratings' )
snsabot: (trilema) 2016-12-02 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-02#1576521 << they are ?! why ? i have no intention for my rating of X to be opposable to me. it is information i provide free of charge and on an as-is basis, literally saying "if you're trying to eval X i may be able to help". it would be the height of impudence for y to demand something on the basis of "i have this here signed thing".
thimbronion: asciilifeform: I'm having trouble with this concept. It seems self-contradictory at least in the example given. He wants to rate somebody, but be able to deny that he rated them?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: aha. his notion was that publishing signed ratings help the enemy by making wot machine-traverseable object, rather than a conversation b/w already friendly parties ( dispute was re 'ideal' wot, rather than the then -- and current -- all-in-one www page )
asciilifeform: thimbronion: thinking further about it, he was rather reluctant to sign things (afaik never signed a single vpatch, for anyone, for instance) and had very strong 'once signed x, you certainly can't unsign, and it might be used against you somehow years from now' flavour of paranoia
asciilifeform at one pt suffered from similar, but for wholly diff reason, i.e. the suspicion (unfounded but difficult to shake) that rsa leaks key bits into sigs
asciilifeform: ... the other argument i can think of for authenticated (at the moment of entry) but repudiatable (third party cannot prove that they were authentic after the fact, even though mechanism at the moment of entry, could) ratings , is to give incentive for those making inquiries to ask for a fresh copy from the rater.
asciilifeform: this is a counter against the obv. attack where, supposing signed ratings, malefactor creates a deliberately outdated copy of said ratings and presents to some third party as 'the wot'.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: all of this was originally discussed in the context of a hypothetical system (in mp's sketch, 'gossipd') where, among other functions, stations could issue wot queries to one another.
thimbronion: Along those lines wrt ratings why not just skip the number and text and just leave contact info for future inquery?
asciilifeform: thimbronion: this was as i understand the intent. 'want x's rating of y? ask x's station, get today's answer'
asciilifeform: thimbronion: fwiw imho the weight on both sides of the scale for this engineering q, is about even. and if i were implementing today, would specifically ~not~ do it as mp described: forcing people to sign things opposably is arguably an effectual and inexpensive bugspray against narcissists.
thimbronion: I am not clear on what exactly is the menace of narcissists, though I can see how if one considers mp to be a narcisist opposability would be effective in preventing him from using such a system given his reluctance to sign anything anyone else might use.
asciilifeform: thimbronion: not even speaking of him specifically. but imho the psychology of 'mustn't sign anything, must not commit to a statement unless absolutely unavoidable' is destructive and in fact symptomatic of 'dark triad'
thimbronion: !s "dark triad"
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