mircea_popescu: and since i mentioned that : religion simply means acknowledgement of one's betters. it's all it is, worthip of the superior.
mircea_popescu: (and evidently, if this is not evident, the argument is not limited to culture ; theory of evolution proposes a succession of steps to arrive to humanoid, that all similarily also happened. wel...)
mircea_popescu: (lit hum includes all sciences from agriculture to string theory + philosophy, for the record)
mircea_popescu: this may be naturally occuring, of course. but if you choose to believe it's rather deliberately set-up, there's little in either res divinae or lit hum to impugn you with.
mircea_popescu: at no prior point was there a case when... no step available, shortest one is eight billion light years tall and fuck you.
mircea_popescu: evidently this is a matter of selected group, humanity only ever took thesteps it could take, so its whole stairwell will be bound by what a biosack shaped like human could overstep
mircea_popescu: now, from a strict probabilistic perspective, there's nothing evidently requiring ALL the god damned stairs to be one foot tall at the most. yet, they all are.
mircea_popescu: if you look at the history of the human thought, a certain sense of "stairwell" does become apparent -- they did x which suddenly made y feasible and guess what ? sooner or later (usually, later : see gunpowder steam engine and all the numerous examples we keep rehashing in logs) they'd y!
mircea_popescu: for instance : there is NO REASON why general relativity should be tractable with (minor) extensions on infinitesimal calculus. in other words : there is NO REASON the gap between newton and einstein be narrow enough to be closed by a guy like einstein
mircea_popescu: there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.
mircea_popescu: now, those peoples that did have iron in the environment, flourished. those that did not, became the fuckign tupi, stuck forever in stone age.
mircea_popescu: human civilisation is entirely dependent on iron being present within its early environment. while it's true that iron is overwhelmingly abundant on earth, making up as it does 1/3 of it by mass, it is nevertheless also heavy enough to not be abundant on the surface. it is abundant in the core only. the surface iron comes from ancient collision with tinier earths that, like this one, had an iron-ish core, which core then ends
mircea_popescu: there's an imbecile's view of "intelligent design" being floated about (mostly by people who are looking for a strawman, and reconstructed by them for this purpose). here's the correct version :
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno if i did this before, but let's put it in the logs at the risk of repeating self.
mircea_popescu: admittedly putting down bottle hard to do, all this self-determination and choice-having and gotta watch teh tv gets in the way. but anwyay.
mircea_popescu: it's quite fucking obvious that you don't need to computhe the 5th decimal of pi to compute the billionth, if you just put down the bottle for one moment.
asciilifeform: not clear why one 'cleverness' but other, 'fortune', could just as easily say the reverse
mircea_popescu: there's outright cleverness, like that guy's method to compute inside pi ; and then there's just sheer good fucking fortune, like karatsuba.
asciilifeform: ( imho 1 of the great finds of that century, no less )
mircea_popescu: the major advantage of ever seeing a log in the big O is that well... log promises very good returns at end tail!
mircea_popescu: if it takes 723 days, the item would STILL complete within the lifetime of the republic, which is to say roughly speaking 723 × 146 × 2 / 365 = 578.4 years.
mircea_popescu: what the everloving
mircea_popescu: why the hell not.
asciilifeform: it's just this place, where they keep 'governments in exile', lel
mircea_popescu: eh, london. fuck london, nobody is ever going there again.
shinohai: aha praise be to the logs, and a South Park episode to boot!
mircea_popescu: because obviously, why the hell not.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-16 20:41 mircea_popescu: there's a great southpark episode explaining how this false dychotomy is intended to work in practice (i'm a bit couintry & im a bit rock and roll item)
mircea_popescu: shinohai retarded brits maneuvering themselves into trying to matter. when hatman visited queen, some local fuckwits organised a buncha streetwalkers to pretend like they represent "the gypsy community" and "independently want to be called romania from now on". because http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-16#1739911 wasn't invented by ustards, they just copied.
shinohai: i still wanna know why Romania let Chad get away with stealing their flag.
mircea_popescu: if /me ran the whole thing, item'd be used for all it's worth (less importantly, give promising kids a chance to learn what critical safety is ; more importantly, give promising kids chance to exclude themselves on grounds of can not keep a secret. "big hush" the secret thorium reactor would be lynchpin of the whole thing)
asciilifeform: hey betcha somebody in ro even knows about the beta thing.
mircea_popescu: anyway, ro maintains very lively solid state physics programme at universities (mostly, buchjarest/magurele), i would not be surprised if they had one on the grounds.
asciilifeform: funnily enuff pre-zombiefication PG mentioned that his father had come to usa from britain to build breeder-reactors. and then driven into sad-retirement when pantsuitisml
BingoBoingo: In other news, on January 5th or 8th tentatively penciling in an appointment with the data center to hammer out more details, pricing information, etc. By that point there should be a business to do contract signing even if banking continues to be a challenge.
asciilifeform: is there ? su afaik did not build any
mircea_popescu: (they're about 10TJ for lifetime, so whole factory makes say petaJ/year)
mircea_popescu: anyway, 10-20k rods a year. this is not a lot objectively, but it keeps the item going
mircea_popescu: bulgarians were enthusiastic over the idea.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: Bulgaria opens dry spent nuclear fuel depot - Reuters: <http://www.reuters.com/article/bulgaria-nuclear-waste-idAFLDE74A13D20110512>; Will The Russians Become Fuel Supplier To U.S. Nuclear Power ...: <https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/05/31/will-the-russians-become-fuel-supplier-to-u-s-nuclear-power-plants/>; Cracks found in protective casings at Bulgaria nuclear plant - Phys.org: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: well, you know that time the caer came up with idea of making eastern europe agricultural zone, and ceausescu threatened to quit the warsaw pact ?
mircea_popescu: there's a nuclear fuel factory and everything.
mircea_popescu: imbecile austrians, that DID convince the world hitler was german and mozart austrian, NEVERTHELESS DID NOT!!!! figure out why they come to bucharest to seek money in 2007.
asciilifeform: long in the tooth, and with american ersatz fuel by ge co. -- but running.
mircea_popescu: and nobody wants to look at why both a) romania became industrial power and b) romania was the only above-water state during crisis.
BingoBoingo described US agriculture to the Brasileros. "In Estados Unidos, corn is grown and converted to sugar. Anything else costs too much to do. All of the livestock subsist on fermented corn chaff."
mircea_popescu: the thing with these is they self-support. WAY the fuck more expensive to have 1st nuke power plant than to add the 1001th to a 1000 fleet.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 16:12 asciilifeform: then next wk 'tell us who is trying to be philosophical, and getting in the way...'
BingoBoingo: Kind of how I was telling other people at hostel that when you make eye contact with everyone you come across on your walk, you tend not to get acosted
mircea_popescu: it's like saying "the reason 1990s girls are emo is that 1950 style vinly and kitchen aprons are expensive"
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform isn't it interesting how agricultural applicaiton ends up giving an anti-intellectual sheen to ANYTHING it touches. << anti-intellectual sheen is part of the appeal of having named castle thusly, scares those who need it.
asciilifeform: for the chemicrud
asciilifeform: they... do. simply takes a while.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: AHA, yes, the corn thing
mircea_popescu: the sadness of agriculture being of course that old story of http://trilema.com/2013/the-corn-thing/
asciilifeform: ( ports are in all the wrong places, and no room for any cabling, ditto heat spreaders )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759406 << guaranteed no-go. it's rather like trying to sew a squirrel into a rat skin and expect it to live happily as rat.
mircea_popescu: the drawback is that most nobles dun wanna upkeep their castles for some reason. i'm hoping it's mostly misunderstanding teh future in the benign sense of "really, didn't give this much thought"
mircea_popescu: so yes, the move to conscription is a matter of when, not of if.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 00:29 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758743 << this historically worked CONSIDERABLY better than 'let's throw the reddit toilet into reverse gear and see what crawls out of the pipe'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1758896 << i have this vague memory that both phf and trinque were originally introduced in this sense by ben_vulpes ; whereas you were introduced similarily by hanbot. by comparison the pantsuit "evidently correct & only method" of herdemocracy has produced a whole lot of indiancandies and other self-choice delusionists.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 06:12 mircea_popescu: in other rapetrucks, i watched die hard. the russians are germans back then ; the terrorists still terrorists. the "career woman" still very much homely gun moll, wink wink nudge nudge. the dumbass "technology" ie cameras on every wall more of a curio than anything, deemed eccentricly harmless (see also above discussion of parasitosis).
asciilifeform: nuffin there re noncrapple tho
BingoBoingo: So last night I returned from una cita con una chica to discover a concert on the roof of the hostel was winding down. While I rehydrated drinking copious agua buena other guests at the hostel consulted me for answers to "What's good in Montevideo"
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> incidentally, the fresh blood you (and trinque ) pumped in trb ecosystem made a lot of secondary nodes gain lots of speed too. << Aha, since the aggressing started and some trb nodes changed ver string my nodes have had an easier time staying at the tip
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Perhaps you fill a 1U tray with them and pack it into your checked luggage? If you worry about their conenctivity it is very possible to negotiate them their own dedicated or asymmetrical line.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: they are widely sold as surplus today, about fiddybux ( naturally diskless )
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> !~later tell BingoBoingo where was that hoster that'll host peculiarly small boxes , that you were using back in the day ? i have a buncha http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754247 that fit exactly those dimensions << I looked at "Mac Stadium" but ended up going with Joe's Datacenter before the payment portion of Joe's website went full NameCheap retard.
mircea_popescu: yet by comparison to the femprop the pantsuits are pouring out this decade, brainless "action" movies of the 90s are grandiloquent cinematic accomplishments.
mircea_popescu: to quote tlp, "half of america said hell ya, let's kick some ass and the other half rolled its eyes and was totally like don't you guys know we suck now ?"
mircea_popescu: in other rapetrucks, i watched die hard. the russians are germans back then ; the terrorists still terrorists. the "career woman" still very much homely gun moll, wink wink nudge nudge. the dumbass "technology" ie cameras on every wall more of a curio than anything, deemed eccentricly harmless (see also above discussion of parasitosis).
asciilifeform: pretty slow rapetruck... ( is the rape phree if the truck is late ? like american pizza in 1980s )
mircea_popescu: anyway. let them "could be" and "we said to ourselves and then believed" and so on until the rapetruck comes.
asciilifeform: ( they must've asked buffett... )
shinohai: http://archive.is/VuSSm <<< Autists literally made this happen. Their logo is a fidget spinner, ffs
shinohai: ah mircea_popescu lookup has been there a while, but i think i forgot to have pete_dushenski push it to his bots page updates.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 00:26 shinohai: http://archive.is/EwgIC <<< US must wire $5000 via western union before the sale can proceed tho
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 19:43 asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing what ain't in there, lol
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759277 << any actual history of bitcoin, as opposed to the usual "and then hillary clinton really won the elections and global warming etcetera" ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 18:06 phf: i'll definitely document it though, because the process is arcane, and not at all automated.
mircea_popescu: rather.
asciilifeform: ( much has been written on subj of how post-mongol ru continued same administrative style etc. there's sumthing to it. )
mircea_popescu: this is the fundamental counterintuitive coernerstone of civilisation : always better to beat the wife and children than to beat the walls and fields.
asciilifeform: if not , then 0 agency, like corpse. and fat will be rendered
mircea_popescu: russia idem had to. much less profitably, because turns out torturing your fellow countryman is better for the country than torturing the environment.
mircea_popescu: this is an open issue. "on the pipe" also not voluntary txn
asciilifeform: re t cell -- not all parasites are perceptible. point was that stealth is not the only strategy used by parasite
mircea_popescu: dog, maybe. then again dog eats shit does not perceive ascaris etc
mircea_popescu: and no, t-cell doth not perceive hiv virus, nor fish the polyp on its gills etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 01:51 mircea_popescu: obviously parasite exists irl specifically and strictly because the victim fails to perceive it, in other words the organism's existence is simple proof of the other organism's failure to perceive and no more.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-28#1759338 << dog very much perceives the flea. just like zek perceives the louse. but what exactly is he to do? either of them.
asciilifeform: the inheriting of the master's house by a gaggle of idjits , former bootlicks, was a palpable thing, and with palpable consequences incl. the cn split.
asciilifeform: can debate styles of management , etc. but for instance stalin did not sell natural resources. successors -- sold. even today, ru runs 100% 'on the pipe', like saud
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:52 asciilifeform: entirely possible that the man's chief sin was simply the failure to find worthy successor. he left tex to the maggots, and the result is exactly the typical result. ( just as e.g. stalin ended up leaving his 'tex' to the maggots, with similar result )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759241 << it's not altogether clear to me soviet union wasn't continued exactly in the spirit and direction of "the great father".
mircea_popescu: i am convinced that all these useless foreigners had not an inkling of an idea that they're trading their ancestral land for the sack of shiny baubles, simply no conception whatsoever. "what, there's something wrong with codebase increase ?" they might ask, with all the endearing pathetism of well meaning senility, in the same tone as they might ask "where am i ? could you take me home ?", lost at a crowded crossroads.
mircea_popescu: obviously parasite exists irl specifically and strictly because the victim fails to perceive it, in other words the organism's existence is simple proof of the other organism's failure to perceive and no more.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:49 asciilifeform: ( and i gotta wonder whether lamport himself was an active perpetrator, or passive victim similar to knuth himself, when the 3GB of liquishit began to form )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759237 << have you ever wondered, like prepubescent mp wondered, why all these various animals on nature show never fucking kill the parasytes like you'd squish a flea ?
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:48 phf: it's hard to say how much knuth changed over years, without knowing the man, and i don't think "for which knuth is famous" is any kind of measure. he's certainly gotten old, but i think he might also be constituionally incapable of participating in a consensus.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759236 << the problem is rather the ability to tell people [as a fine example, one's own sons] that they have failed miserably, and here's the small stiletto that'll wash somewhat of the miserable stain they placed on your name.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather piss it in fresh snow.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:39 phf: but to answer the question, i think i don't particularly mind the subtrate. man does computations, i wouldn't be too concerned if he were to switch to ipad even, because he'd still be hand writing algorithms with a certain detachment to the concerns of extras
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:27 phf: ircii questions are also by the way impossible to search for. no way to tell either google or ddg to not be helpful and also mirc, irssi, etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:19 asciilifeform: somehow, on their planet this is considered acceptable.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759208 << i consider it perfectly acceptable ; if crapple software were improved to swallow 100% of their luserbase's output as opposed to merely 1% or w/e it is now it'd be even more acceptable.
mircea_popescu: can offer it in the logotron as a [?] item, ie message is "blablabla http://someu" and next line goes "rl.com/hurddurr" and your log shows the line as "blablabla http://someu [ http://someurl.com/hurddurr ?]" or perhaps in shorter format, "blablabla http://someu [<a href=http://someurl.com/hurddurr>?</a>]"
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 17:14 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759185 << i sometimes wonder if there's some clever way to link back split posts (i mean in cases where urls are lost, perhaps by looking at cases where 250 byte message, followed by same person within ~~<3s or somesuch)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759198 << look at cases where a message that overflows the buffer has the last word leading by http of any line and the first word of the next line include any /
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 15:47 asciilifeform: they are widely sold as surplus today, about fiddybux ( naturally diskless )
asciilifeform: !~later tell BingoBoingo where was that hoster that'll host peculiarly small boxes , that you were using back in the day ? i have a buncha http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754247 that fit exactly those dimensions
mircea_popescu: i dun think anyone intellectually honest still holds any notion that the prb crew is in any way working to fix or improve bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the fresh blood you (and trinque ) pumped in trb ecosystem made a lot of secondary nodes gain lots of speed too.
asciilifeform: that's even worse. if my nodes were failing to give EACH OTHER their best known blocks, i'd skin'em alive until found why
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 15:50 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : i think it is worth elaborating what it means when saying 'my node is behind N blox'. what it means, if spoken properly, is that you know of some node, somewhere, that appears to have moarblox than yours. focus should be on 'did my node ask it for nextblock? what, if anything, did it answer? why ?' rather than the quite uselessly unspecific 'mah nodez are behind!111'
shinohai: http://archive.is/EwgIC <<< US must wire $5000 via western union before the sale can proceed tho
lobbes: but so it goes, those on that ship will 'unhappen' into their watery grave
lobbes: <asciilifeform> [19:42:10] in other vintage heathen lulz, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin apparently. << "Before disappearing from any involvement in bitcoin, Nakamoto in a sense handed over the reins to developer Gavin Andresen" lol, didjaknow?
phf: hmm, dis ircii keeps losing connection and then not telling me anything. this like some girlfriend shit
asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing what ain't in there, lol
asciilifeform: in other vintage heathen lulz, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_bitcoin apparently.
phf: i'll definitely document it though, because the process is arcane, and not at all automated.
phf: knuth managed to do a lot to keep tex what it is, given that he's essentially a pacifist academic. there aren't many other examples (common lisp, ada) where preservation has been taken to this extreme.
asciilifeform: BigTexasBingo: the art of 'drowning like a gentleman', i.e. to behave honourably and with grace in the face of certain defeat, death, obscurity -- is largely lost in modern folx
phf: asciilifeform: well, be that lamport, or someone else, the memo wasn't missed, but made to disappear through consensus. everyone knows that there's only one TeX, but of course "modern" "tex" is latex with luatex engine, etc. etc.
BigTexasBingo: Not much to do then except present carrot/stick/africa trilemma
asciilifeform: afaik knuth did not grow any , at least none such that would suffer from the delusion that they are fit to succeed him
asciilifeform: hunger is motivator for the young, who have good battery charge
BigTexasBingo: When I consider what the next right thing is, hambre or the threat thereof provides motivation to not be stupid and Windows
phf: asciilifeform: he did though, by making it very explicit that there can't be a successor.
phf: well, really, the problem has been discussed here many times, that you can't tmsr without wot. "successor" is just a special case of that, which, again, lacking mechanisms, is likewise lacking
asciilifeform: the problem of trying to be 'millenarian' with earthling human lifespan...
phf: we'll he's a millenarian, he's primarily documenting the fundamental findings of computer science
asciilifeform: entirely possible that the man's chief sin was simply the failure to find worthy successor. he left tex to the maggots, and the result is exactly the typical result. ( just as e.g. stalin ended up leaving his 'tex' to the maggots, with similar result )
asciilifeform: phf: given specifically as i do not know the man -- all i'm left with is 'the mathematics for which he was famous'
asciilifeform: ( and i gotta wonder whether lamport himself was an active perpetrator, or passive victim similar to knuth himself, when the 3GB of liquishit began to form )
phf: it's hard to say how much knuth changed over years, without knowing the man, and i don't think "for which knuth is famous" is any kind of measure. he's certainly gotten old, but i think he might also be constituionally incapable of participating in a consensus.
asciilifeform: iirc knuth showed first sign of fatal weakness when he failed to put up resistance against what the latex people had done.
a111: Logged on 2016-04-22 04:34 asciilifeform: rmans really got to England my acquaintance of the Cafe Royal would soon have found his painting deteriorating, even if the Gestapo had let him alone. And when the lid is taken off Europe, I believe one of the things that will surprise us will be to find how little worthwhile writing of any kind -- even such things as diaries, for instance -- has been produced in secret under the dictators.'
asciilifeform: ( see also the not wholly-irrelevant http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-22#1455456 item )
asciilifeform: the interesting bit is that this disconnect, 'can use ipad but still do honest mathematics', doesn't show any serious symptoms of existing
phf: but to answer the question, i think i don't particularly mind the subtrate. man does computations, i wouldn't be too concerned if he were to switch to ipad even, because he'd still be hand writing algorithms with a certain detachment to the concerns of extras
asciilifeform: but gotta say, there is not so much distance left, to winblowz.
phf: he was using unix up until early 2000s, and then switched to mac (i think for old people reasons)
asciilifeform: but heart did not break then ? why not? i'm curious
phf: early tex papers knuth talks about putting this or that formula into macsyma, but then from some point he fully switches to mathematica. breaks me heart
asciilifeform: wolfram surely deserves whipping post regardless. ( he is to be counted, imho, right up there with the greatest american charlatans, with josephsmith, edison, gates, et al )
phf: ircii questions are also by the way impossible to search for. no way to tell either google or ddg to not be helpful and also mirc, irssi, etc.
asciilifeform: dunno, all of the artifacts i recall from those days, made it easier for operator to avoid this accidental bankruptcy , not harder.
asciilifeform: somehow, on their planet this is considered acceptable.
asciilifeform: specifically thinking of the crapple ones (e.g. 'palaver')
phf: the other thing that i wanted to do is add xref for those inline quotes `phf: asciilifeform: grrrrr ... << kek` that people like to do
asciilifeform: ( with each other, and with naive logs that everybody keeps on own hdd )
asciilifeform: elaborately diddling logs is not The Right Thing. for one thing, it will cause logtrons to fall out of sync.
asciilifeform: phf: imho more correct pill would be to patch e.g. znc. or better still, the client, to warn of splits
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759185 << i sometimes wonder if there's some clever way to link back split posts (i mean in cases where urls are lost, perhaps by looking at cases where 250 byte message, followed by same person within ~~<3s or somesuch)
asciilifeform: congrats to PeterL, the first (and currently only) ch4 graduate.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://www.worldtruth.mx/mathematics/link-id_34145/ << pinoys neversleep(tm)(r)
asciilifeform: in other lulzy backlinx from asciilifeform's www, http://forum.6502.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2944&p=57778#p57778 << 6502 enthusiasts , presumably some were not awake in the '80s-'90s , try to rederive carry-bit formula. d00d links asciilifeform's. which is hilarious because on what, do you suppose, asciilifeform originally studied...
asciilifeform: don't be the fisherman who, say, 'i washed my hands after shitting and that day caught no fish, i think i'ma not ever again wash hands' etc.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 22:48 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the sea is rich ; but the fisherman's stuck playing a loser game.
asciilifeform: i get it, in the 'organic' system that is a live p2p net, proper controlled experiments are quite impossible. this however does NOT mean that one oughta freely give in to urge to climb back up the tree, becoming a monkey again, and think in voodoo criteria. even if the circumstances heavily encourage this , by failing to reward rational thought ( see mircea_popescu's thread with the italian fishermen !! , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-
asciilifeform: so that questions like 'did it even have net access for that week', to 'has it ASKED anyone for the next block, or just sat there with mouth open? ' and 'did anyone ANSWER, when asked, or just shat forth mempool crapola and bastards 50 blox ahead' can be answered.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes et al : i think it is worth elaborating what it means when saying 'my node is behind N blox'. what it means, if spoken properly, is that you know of some node, somewhere, that appears to have moarblox than yours. focus should be on 'did my node ask it for nextblock? what, if anything, did it answer? why ?' rather than the quite uselessly unspecific 'mah nodez are behind!111'
asciilifeform: as for nodes at the 'tip', the path of chinesium through layers of prb is a lottery, and i suspect that attempting to measure the effect of a trb patch on said behaviour is doomed to astrologize over noise
asciilifeform: the old behaviour was indefensibly insane, wtf, why is boot time 'special', for fuck's sake.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 05:36 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: let me know if your aggression patch was enough to stay at the tip of the chain, as it wasn't for my node.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759152 << not up to 'tip' yet. it did walk 3000+ blox in the night, however. which before patch sometimes took week+.
BingoBoingo very much enjoying the Lode lulz
BingoBoingo: The accountant is giving me the expectation the the process of transforming my self into a business will compelete this week allowing bank access to follow soon after.
BingoBoingo: Ah, such a gloriously obvious pattern emerges. Waterfalls when the banks are closed. Turns out the speed of the crashing is limited to a somewhat sane pace by the difficulty of getting rid of non-ecu fiat takens
mircea_popescu: o the fuck he is!!! ie, the world's heavyweight champion. ayer explained that he's the ex wykeham professor of logic, and since they're both pre-eminent in their respective fields, how about they indulge in discourse rather than intercourse. oddly enough tyson accepted, and naomi campbell slipped out -- apparently undamaged enough by the experience to actually do those not-even-terrible shots with madonna.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other humanities : a. j. ayer was once in the livingroom of one fernando sanchez on west 57th st, hanging out with a buncha young hussies/models when one girl came arunnin' complaining that her friend was being assaulted in the bedroom. ayer went in, where he found mike tyson atop an obscure south london model. when the (at the time 70yo) oxford professor asked him to quit it, mike tyson wanted to know if he knows wh
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: let me know if your aggression patch was enough to stay at the tip of the chain, as it wasn't for my node.
trinque: if an automatic manifest comprised of hashes of all items in project, it reduces to the $concatHashBefore and $concatHashAfter
trinque: can have a tool to edit it sure, but then that's the file that's being edited no matter what else is edited, and there's a coherent history based primarily upon a list denoting what's considered a thing at time of patch
ben_vulpes: oh you said "patch # and the codebase hash is..."
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: okay, i geddit. do it as the first step of vdiff, so the mutation shows up
trinque: my cuntoo installer script requires some what, 500mb of wads of other items that are not text, or useless.
mircea_popescu envisaged the genesis.manifest as wholly mechanical item, just a patch-per-line count of patches, no space to adlib.
trinque: but specifically, blobs not included. "and you will need the debian 2002 iso; go find"
trinque: hm. the manifest also gives you a place to name blobs.
ben_vulpes: putting the codebasehash in headers doesn't work then, as there is no 'file that will always be touched' that is a part of v to participate in the toposort
ben_vulpes: how is a4 to indicate that it needs both a3 and a3' otherwise?
ben_vulpes: (it's an urbit, and presumably others crackpottery)
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 02:03 asciilifeform: or, on other end of the possible, a vtron that somehow understands that a call of foo necessarily depends on the patch that birthed foo... and requires disambiguation only if >1 foo exists in the tree
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 01:58 asciilifeform: i'd like to encourage trinque to put some of his 'crackpot' algos 'to paper', as articles. the hypertext thing was interesting imho, for instance, and so was earlier trinque pill for 'mining is a bug', and possibly other occasions. dun be afraid to write down conjectures, trinque , gauss did
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1758974 << very much so ; and especially on a blog. there's utterly nothing wrong with being wrong, and discover it over time, especially if gracious about it. not like you sign the damned things, nor like the distinction isn't very fucking clear a a matter of public policy.
mircea_popescu: phf asciilifeform diana_coman & others awake ^
mircea_popescu: otherwise what, we rebuild africa, "sonny we sat here and marveled at this mud for 955 generations"
trinque: and yet, I can see the entire thing from the other perspective still, that cpp is broken, trb itself not a single concept but a mud, etc
trinque: "let it be known that there are these files, with these hashes" "I have changed these; their hashes are now ..."
trinque: manifest can be the patch header nearly as is
mircea_popescu: no, it's signed. it simply is not used in the one spot where the codebase hash is calculated.
ben_vulpes: well then it's out of band, unsigned
trinque: orobother
ben_vulpes: hash of the patched codebase including the patched manifest with hash of patched codebase in it?
mircea_popescu: this has the advantage that you can readily understand what any press is made of by looking in root.
mircea_popescu: how about a convention whereby all new genesises must contain a manifest.genesis file, which file will be constantly patched on each patchj, no exceptions, by adding a line which reads : "This is patch #x and the codebase hash is blabla".
mircea_popescu: trinque you need the file hashes per file though.
mircea_popescu: trinque kitten trying to get into the backseat so i can play with her tits ever so briefly kissed my new suit pant's leg, now i have a typically indicative white spot on it. tbh i knida like the look of it.
trinque: mircea_popescu: yep, concatenate every single item in the path diff processed, use *that* hash as antecedent and that recalculated as expected.
ben_vulpes: moreover i want to bring up another overlooked point which is that it is illegal to press a tree with these two patches side by side
mircea_popescu: anyway, and the proposed fix for this is to actually add a hash for the whole filebase in each patch ?
mircea_popescu: hey, i spent most of the intervening day revelring! i have circumstrances!
a111: Logged on 2017-12-25 22:56 ben_vulpes: the specifics of this case is that increase_aggression_levels touches *only* net.cpp and excise_hash_truncations touches a whole lotta stuff but *not* net.cpp
mircea_popescu: because otherwise, touching entirely different filesets, their precedence can not currently be established as per extant v
mircea_popescu: the ~only way to establish a lineage among these two so a3` is properly a4 is if the patch is spuriously modified to add a "hey v sucks" comment in Fj
mircea_popescu: so the idea is, you got up to a2, which consists of files F1... Fi ; now one patch call it a3 touches file Fj, and another patch call it a3` touches file Fk
ben_vulpes: so then for a3' to be an a4, it must touch an unrelated file in a3, forever crufting up the codebase with v artifacts.
trinque: "I edited the networking code and added better logging statements which requires the better logging code on fray, but I didn't edit the logging code."
mircea_popescu: it doesn't matter which files they touch. a4 will build upon one of them, and then a5 on a4, and the unbuild upon one is left as a "fray" on the rope.
trinque: yes, but the method of inclusion by diddling unrelated file is frivolous and less meaningful than explicitly denoting the relationship
mircea_popescu: (this results in an immediate reimplementation of eg's linus torvald's linux codebase management, except properly and per protocol rather than ad-hoc and in a manner nobody can explain or meaningfully defend)
mircea_popescu: because the tree will continue and NOT upon it.
mircea_popescu: if the patch tree goes a1->a2->a3/a3` your position is now to choose which of a3 or a3` counts, and which doesn't count. the discarded one may be scavenged for useful content, but it will never be a proper patch.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-26 18:26 mircea_popescu: so as the reconciler, you get to pick which of ~either~ a ~or~ b to count in your considered oppinion as the republican and which as the heretic.
trinque: that is what I mean by a merge, and has the same result.
mircea_popescu: trinque there's an ambiguity here i'm possibly responsible for though not intended : to "regrind", ie to take a pile of patches and make them into one single patch ; as opposed to re-genesis, which is what happened with eg mpi.
mircea_popescu: whereas the pantsuit psychotic cleaving, where ~some kinds~ of spam are spam (ostensibly because they came from russian hackers as per their bayesian filters ?) whereas some other kinds of spam magicaloly "aren't spam" somehow, because pravda said it, or some "transgender" schmuck said it, or whatever.
trinque: specifically what people have been doing when "regrinding" is adding comments to unrelated files and thus including their patch in the tree.
mircea_popescu: somehow the voice model makes spam such a rarity in #trilema, people actually have the mental vigour to evaluate it!
mircea_popescu: so on. because "it's spam" and that means "it shouldn't be read" and they actually have a consensus on this, which they idiotically but universally misrepresent as somehow different from any other cultish behaviour, such as believing "racism" or "global warming" or "witchcraft" are things.
mircea_popescu: and in unrelated lets-suck-our-own-cocks-we-utterly-deserve-it : consider that the whole l0de thing started because someone from here checked out a SPAMMED item. the fuctard/pantsuit "engineers" in name only in EVERY OTHER fucking channel ~think~ themselves all open-minded and intelligent and whatever, yet i can make a very obviously correct and banal prediction - they wouldn't have followed it, nor in any case escalated and
mircea_popescu: trinque which is a valid thing to do, but NOT if one wishes to at the same timeeschew regrinding/genesising
mircea_popescu: is there a different reason ?