a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 04:52 trinque: why not have one file, manifest, and you edit it, then vdiff the whole shebang.
asciilifeform: i.e. when was the accusation ?
asciilifeform: or .... [accusing ... in the early 1990s] ?
asciilifeform: [accusing ....] [in the early 1990s] ?
asciilifeform: 'Tina Johnson, who first came to public notice for accusing Senate candidate Roy Moore of grabbing her in his office in the early 1990s' << how to parse this sentence ?
asciilifeform: ( yes there will be a mips32 etc )
asciilifeform: os.ads/adb is to corral all of the unix-specific uglies
asciilifeform: ( 'int' reflects that it gets used strictly in the c ffi , was orig idea )
ben_vulpes: caftans for the caftan god
asciilifeform: now he can look at the 'official' answr in ch5.
asciilifeform: or rather, feed to pehbot
asciilifeform: dunno, this item is in principle accessible to the n00b
ben_vulpes: nah, dun expect such of me; i draft plans for field construction of catapaults i don't invent them
asciilifeform: i thought ben_vulpes was speaking of a soln to the branch thing
ben_vulpes: oh sorry sorry, i meant a solution to the ch4 puzzle
asciilifeform: consider describing it here then
ben_vulpes: i haven't bitten off the patch yet, and might not get to it by the time you release ch6, this all takes me a lot longer than phf or lobbes
ben_vulpes: well, gonna reread vpatch for ch04 and then submit with my seal but sure, gimme a sec
asciilifeform: so {[foo]}{[bar]} would then instead look like {[foo]}~{[bar]}_ grrrrrr
asciilifeform: and trigger on the negation of that selfsame selector.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-03 17:17 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763202 << i've been thinking of abolishing the artifact where a 0 stays on the stack after the 'else' branch. it'd require only 1 extra state variable ( a WBool )
a111: Logged on 2018-01-03 17:07 phf: using the boolean we execute an if/else branch which either swaps the two numbers and drops the top most '_, or drops the top most without swapping _. the final drop _ is an artifact of conditional implementation that always leaves a value on the stack.
asciilifeform: and btw i gotta take back http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763202 -- in that i have nfi how to 'abolish the _' while making nested conditionals still work.
asciilifeform: a { takes a value off the stack and, if it is 0 : ignores further ops until it gets a ~matching~ } , then leaves a 1 on the stack; if it is a 1, proceeds to the next op , and when a closing } is found , leaves a 0 on the stack.
asciilifeform: ( what we have right now, is that we have no 'if-clause' or 'else-clause', physically, they are exactly the same thing, simply happen to be a pair of'em )
asciilifeform: however the _ can be made to disappear, at the cost of an added moving part. i will ask ben_vulpes to draw this moving part, as exercise.
asciilifeform: this is an engineering tension, ben_vulpes ; i'll grant that the trailing _ is ugly. however it makes the mechanism simpler, all { are handled in exactly same way, and ditto all }
ben_vulpes: a modern IRC client that keeps you connected, with none of the baggage
ben_vulpes: dude The20YearIRCloud the fuck even is the point of a bouncer that's constantly disconnecting
a111: Logged on 2018-01-03 17:17 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763202 << i've been thinking of abolishing the artifact where a 0 stays on the stack after the 'else' branch. it'd require only 1 extra state variable ( a WBool )
asciilifeform: neato mod6 . thx for putting in the sweat.
mod6: then ill dig into the tmpdir thing. i want to ensure that the bug fix i've made is correct before I proceed.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 15:40 mod6: I went through each one, looks to be doing the sane thing. I'm probably going to write it up in a little post that can be looked at, as opposed to trying to explain all of that in 3 lines of irc.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764988 << good idea. << fwiw, i'll be working on this to ensure that the bug fix is correct.
ben_vulpes: the important thing is that it not be the same tempdir every time so that interrupted executions don't block the next execution
ben_vulpes: it is fine to leave the tempdir in place so long as it is uniquely named
mod6: in the case of failure, i could try to remove the tmpdir during the 'Death()' call or something. But with interrupted execution, there's no way to know when the interrupt is coming. Nothing to do about it here.
mod6: So here's what I'll do: I'll revisit this, and try to come up with a unique tempdir. This tempdir is to be used exactly once. Created at run time. Removed at the end of run time. If execution fails or is interrupted, nothing will be done. It'll be left hanging there until the user removes it manually.
mod6: It seems that asciilifeform has been saying the same thing all along.
mod6: ok. asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, phf, all others interested, here's the orig thread (as ben_vulpes also found earlier): http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/76gSk/?raw=true
asciilifeform: 'A TLV (type-length-value) structure is parsed and copied on to the parent stack frame. Unfortunately, there are missing bounds checks, and a specially crafted certificate can lead to a stack overflow...' etc
asciilifeform: however with the 0day -- might be doable.
asciilifeform: '... stack-based overflow in the function EkCheckCurrentCert. This function is called from TPM2_CreatePrimary with user controlled data - a DER encoded [6] endorsement key (EK) certificate stored in the NV storage....'
asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2018/Jan/12 >> ahahahahahaha the amd fritz chip, apparently finally killed
asciilifeform: this one -- went the 2nd.
asciilifeform: there's 2 ways those go.
mircea_popescu: why should he give a shit in either case.
asciilifeform: old bureaucrat, unpopular ( perhaps ) at office, picked as scapegoat for the infector leak of that year
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 15:40 mod6: I went through each one, looks to be doing the sane thing. I'm probably going to write it up in a little post that can be looked at, as opposed to trying to explain all of that in 3 lines of irc.
mircea_popescu: goes well with the "didn't even afford paralelconstruct". this is some seriously low effort "job".
mod6: lemme break off here for a minute, i'll keep digging up the logs to prove we talked this over.
mod6: anyway, i appreciate all the feedback. its obvious that there is passion to get this part of my vtron right.
asciilifeform: in fact, if we weren't planning to take gpg behind the shed and shoot it, i'd publish my keyring-abolition patch ( gpg then DEMANDS pubkey FILE on cmdline for any op that uses one. ditto privates. )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764975 << very sad fucking item, i would fire the producer. contains "if he were" boilerplate verbiage copy-pasted in there, for utter shame.
mod6: i gotta find these logs. im actually now convinced that we've discussed this very item not just once, but maybe even 3 or 4 times.
asciilifeform: see, asciilifeform's orig trick with tmp was ~specifically~ to abolish the gpg keyring nonsense
mod6: it's the ~keyring~
asciilifeform: rather than rubbish left in tmp
asciilifeform: afaik the best known solution is the one i used -- use the script lang's purpose-made lib for the item
mod6: the good news is, hopefully, your pgptron will be built into any new vtrons
asciilifeform: for so long as vtron uses gpg shell-out, it's stuck with the tmp dir crapola
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: afaik this dun actually happen on any known unix << this the rub tho. have to make sure that it actually /NEVER/ happens. i can't have people failing in anyway with this thing.
trinque: I don't think there's ever a case where , yeap
mod6: sorry, lemme read back here. was just trying to type there.
mod6: maybe mktmpdir is sound for that. however, i remember discussing that before as well..and one fear that i had is that if you use mktmpdir, then you have a /tmp/23429adfsew32 dir.
mircea_popescu: mod6 why not use the system logs instead ?
mod6: now, for the concurrent part... now that's something I never did consider.
mod6: anyway, if you see a .gnupgtmp, something failed. either the software failed, or the user interrupted the thing. either way, the responsibility has been on the user to determine if he should delete ~/.gnupgtmp or not.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i suspect the idea is sound, but maybe the posixism of "single fixed file" dun serve
asciilifeform: mod6: imho a good debugism would be a flag that forces the printing to stderr of all external proggy (gpg, gnupatch) invocations , and their args
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 13:34 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764882 << i'm quite tempted to give the archive another combing and make a sequel to my http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165 item
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764935 << prolly worth it, "re-examine history with new theoretical framework"
mod6: i shouldn't say a lot. from time to time, one of alf's previous key ones would creep into ones flow or whatever, and you may want to check for yourself weather it verifies or not. or what gnupg might have been up to while executing v.
mod6: and if it did fail, then perhaps one can go and look at what went on -- at the time, there were a lot of seals that didn't verify for instance.
asciilifeform: mod6: the most serious bug is not even the failure to delete the tempdir, but that every run of the vtron uses ~same one~
mod6: the idea behind leaving the .gnupgtmp around after execution, is there because i wanted it to be there. not weather this is the Right Thing or not.
mod6: so previously, and im still digging in the logs...
asciilifeform: soo analogously 'plaintext' would be 'the integers'(tm)(r) whereas asciilifeform's conception would then be the finite-bitness integers one actually gets to use on a comp
mircea_popescu: which is why the whole "with mine owne eyes" screams were all about re previous pass of this, gpg-plaintext.
mircea_popescu: that is the "plaintext", that comes out as the other plaintext, displayed (via the ~yet other~ plaintext, the html)
asciilifeform: it's rather like... ffacalc, lol
asciilifeform: ( or heapless. consider, where do the external symbols get pulled from . )
asciilifeform: dunno that the meat parser is stackless
asciilifeform: in asciilifeform's head 'plain text' means strictly v100, i.e. this convenient (too convenient) item 'the customer Got Accustomed To'(tm)(r) in 1950s and is old, tired, being asked to do all sorts of contradictory things like sane diffability, structure-preserving edits, etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform neh! i have a magic box, into which i pour the transcendent substance that makes trilema. it comes out as ascii yes, but how is it plain.
asciilifeform: trinque: i'd bet d00d has spells of sobriety, he has afaik already outlived the expected life of a serious meth aficionado
trinque: wiser folks hitting you on the head is a kindness.
asciilifeform: ( and given that i ain't his personal physician , i dun even care if he does the job while tripping , or while sober, so long as he does )
asciilifeform: there we go.
trinque: I lived in Portland among the pantsuit cunts
gabriel_laddel: I never got a chance bc fighting all the idiots in CA myself. Same with archiver.Got banned before was able to host in house someone OK'd me for.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: didja ever download the 1GB example FG bin ?
gabriel_laddel: training a NN on FG output to see if it trains faster so I can sell them
gabriel_laddel: the order I was anticipating was: M release for tmsr (free, obo), then NNFG, then RSA. lobbes has done/ is doing archiver
trinque: either to affirm some nonsense or surface against which to act out
ben_vulpes: point also is not absolute age but years bouncing off the republic
asciilifeform: asciilifeform also had not produced anything useful to the republic, at 25
trinque: asciilifeform: I don't need extra reasons to hate the useless
trinque: to date the guy has produced zero anyone uses, and I dunno why anyone entertains the larping and dick-pulling
asciilifeform: trinque: out of curiosity, do the two of you know one another from meatspace ? and hated for 20yrs ? or how
asciilifeform: the misfortunate thing is that he labeled it 'lispm'
ben_vulpes: mod6: it's not a personal attack, i disagree that i agreed that v.pl was doing the Right Thing in leaving ~/.gnupgtmp hanging around
asciilifeform: trinque: barf all you like, the d00d nearly made a working cuntoo
mod6: my vtron has been discussed very much over the last 2+ years. i remember many disucssions where rules popped out.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> logs save us from the "but i thought we agreed" floppy meatsack memory. << i feel ya. if you wanna help me dig, that'd be awesome.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which part of trilema is plaintext ? the part where it says fuckyoui or the part where it says fuckyou((norly)) ?
a111: Logged on 2015-12-25 23:10 asciilifeform: because, again, the whole 'plain text' jwzism and the attendant retardation. somehow 'lines' are a thing.
ben_vulpes: logs save us from the "but i thought we agreed" floppy meatsack memory.
ben_vulpes: mod6: you gotta quote chapter and verse from the logs to support "outcome of that discussion".
mircea_popescu: and there is no such thing as fucking "plain text"
asciilifeform: it's the only thing that works.
asciilifeform: it does however mean letting finally go of the vt100.
mircea_popescu: as i say -- i see no way out here ; we'll end up with the v-code + blog-commentary ostrich-camel and god help us./
asciilifeform: it's the gordian cut.
asciilifeform: sorta why i favour the structure-editor and store-EVERYTHING-as-sexprs approach.
mircea_popescu: this is the problem. you can't disagree with my theory and i have no practical solution for your pain.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> second , as in the case discussed in the thread, if a run aborts, it creates a mine for next run to step on. << try to realize that this is on-purpose. im certain that we've had this discussion before and what exists is the outcome of that discussion.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> no good. first of all suppose there are 2 concurrent runs of the vtron ( say this is a cuntoo pressing itself ) << yeah, concurrent runs of my vtron are a no-go.
mircea_popescu: it's actually SO BAD that people go re-implement the same damned X thing for the 90th time as a substitute of commentary ; and nobody looking understands wtf that is.
mircea_popescu: until this is resolved, the perennial results will repeat.
mircea_popescu: in any case, here's the logic : the proximate cause of the failure of "computer science" to amount to 0 (not epsilon, 0) since its inception is strictly due to poor treatment of comments as 2nd class item in code.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform somehow you jump from "my printer is shit, doesn't work properly" to "either magic number or throw out printer"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway you turn it, the concept of magic number's not defensible.
mircea_popescu: except that day will be rather sooner than that.
asciilifeform: so far the folx who code on paper, wrote ffa, and the folx who wrote on display -- wrote what.
asciilifeform: in the end man can lose out to cockroaches also.
mircea_popescu: there's a reason your father+grandfather haven't amounted to as much of a fart as a workable os.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and write too little of them and too sparse and lose out to the other variant in the end.
asciilifeform: i'ma carry right on wrapping comments to 80, like father and grandfather did and like the gods intended.
mircea_popescu: this is a sad state of affairs, as it limits v utility drastically ; neverthless -- commentary will be ok, long predated either v or code. code is more fragile.
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's no possible solution here ; i expect the defacto result will be that patches will consist of code, wrapped 80, including 0 comments, plus blogposts, consisting of commentary, with some haphazard code reference.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if true, this is == "code is not worth either writing or reading"
ben_vulpes: the mega-clue is "any seven numbers"
asciilifeform: ( whynot, is not a bad question, it reduces to the absence of a solution to the tednelson problem -- how to point into a structure unambiguously, other than by line # )
asciilifeform: i'ma disagree that the use of paper is 'bad habit'
mircea_popescu: code and comments do not, actually mix ; the fault is entirely of bad but entrenched habits of code writers.
mircea_popescu: seems atm we uncovered the deep limit on literate code.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 09:56 diana_coman: which is perfectly fine with me for code; it's still grating for comments and I'm not sure how this will resolve, it sort of pushes comments out of code (to a place where one can read them as text not as code-which-they-are-not)
asciilifeform: or for that matter any record kept of old instructions , that the thing could jump to ?
ben_vulpes: then at that point the historical perspective was obviously necessary and i've simply never seen modern arch's as anything other than complexity madness in search of itty bitty performance gains on systems nobody can actually reason about
asciilifeform: ( upstack : dma, interrupts, pipeline, instruction reorderer, 'hyperthreading', multiple buses, 'bridges' -- all are epicycles ( hey mircea_popescu ! ) from vonneumannism , where instructions 'push' (unrelated to stack concept) outputs, rather than 'pull' inputs as they oughta )
ben_vulpes: it all strikes me as so very silly on the surface but i have a weird lens of not having thought about any of the related shit until ~2013 and even then only through republican eyes
asciilifeform: on the other hand, pipeline idea per se was a mistake; same kind of failure to invent dataflowism as dma
asciilifeform: ( on vliw, there was a pipeline, but proggy was expected to fill it 'by hand' . a kind of 'stick shift'. if a sub-instr stepped on another's toes, it was a eggog, like div0 is on x86 , abort . )
asciilifeform: semantics-changing optimization belongs in ~compiler~ (if even there), not in iron.
ben_vulpes: yeah but fuck them in particular
asciilifeform: it's a gnu coreutil. so theoretically yes
asciilifeform: second , as in the case discussed in the thread, if a run aborts, it creates a mine for next run to step on.
asciilifeform: no good. first of all suppose there are 2 concurrent runs of the vtron ( say this is a cuntoo pressing itself )
mod6: the keyring that gpg needs to run
mod6: now, i can add an attempt to remove the thing before we even begin main(), but i thought we had discussed this. i'll have to dig up the old thread.
ben_vulpes: ah over is the key!
asciilifeform: let's quote ftr : 'Creates a temporary directory in the most secure manner possible. There are no race conditions in the directory’s creation. The directory is readable, writable, and searchable only by the creating user ID. The user of mkdtemp() is responsible for deleting the temporary directory and its contents when done with it.'
asciilifeform: however the external 'tempfile' item, made gensymtronic dirs. so this never became a headache.
asciilifeform: did not attempt to catch ctrl-c or any other signal.
asciilifeform: well, let's reread http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-releases-v-for-victory then :
ben_vulpes: mod6: i don't actually recall any agreement on the topic, you did yours one way and i another, and i cannot recall how asciilifeform's original handled this
ben_vulpes: had to go beat self with everything i was never beaten with starting in my early twenties when the republic kicked off
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: odd! are they so rare today ?
asciilifeform: esp if it gets in the way of a subsequent run
asciilifeform: mod6: the temp dir is primo example of an always-ok-to-kill item. i.e. one which the vtron run itself created and would never otherwise exist
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: while you're in there can you get your vtron to cleanup its tmp gnupg directory when it catches a ctrl-c? << if you CTRL+C the thing, it really can't get rid of it. you're expected to clean this up on your own so the vtron doesn't remove something it wasn't suppoesd to.
ben_vulpes: only the artsy fartsy guicrap
asciilifeform: there's a stray MustNotZero(Stack(SP)); in ffa_calc.
lobbes: In other incidental preguntas: mircea_popescu, can you recommend good "introductory" reading on the subject of thought classification? It seems like the obvious fundamental to improving my cognitive processes
asciilifeform: ( have a gensym. there is no excuse ever to be hosed by a previous unsuccessful run. )
asciilifeform: nah the tmp thing definitely ought to clean up
ben_vulpes: ah k nm then
asciilifeform: but other unixland utils do not do this, so it is possibly a bridge too far to expect it of this one
asciilifeform: ideally a vtron oughta unhappen, to the extent possible, everything it did to the world, if it gets a ctrl-c
ben_vulpes: mod6: while you're in there can you get your vtron to cleanup its tmp gnupg directory when it catches a ctrl-c?
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 06:21 mircea_popescu: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3129644482406982@naggum.no.html << this exchange with fare is pretty amusing/informative both wrt "who is this francois-rene rideau character ?" and as an early "bitcoin improvements from the sewer" sampler/potputre.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764882 << hah, i read it and didn't notice that it was with fare. there's more fare interactions there of similar nature.
mod6: that's later tho. first, just gotta get this fixed, then we can move on to greater things.
mod6: so goal is to fix this problem. then carry on and document all the rules the thing has in place. this way, others can try to build in those rules we've discussed in here to their vtrons without having to fish them all out of 2 years of logs.
asciilifeform: aaa this is the vtron
mod6: wanna see the experimental patch i'm workin on?
mod6: There are better error messages, or averting a silent fail that will also help here. I haven't gotten that far on that part yet.
mod6: yeah, i actually did add a 'check_required' routine that is semi-related to this. for instance, when that error happened, it was because some guy didn't have `sha512sum'. so the check_required subroutine will now run first, and check to ensure that a list of system biniaries are available before anything happens. and if not, exits.
asciilifeform: rather than simply ignoring inputs.
asciilifeform: and 'wild chain found: ...' when there's a missing seal
asciilifeform: e.g. 'beheaded chain found: [list of patches]' when there is a patch with non-null parentage but parent is absent
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's main pheature-request for mod6 is to print meaningful eggogs, rather than silent 'new jersey' failure
mod6: I went through each one, looks to be doing the sane thing. I'm probably going to write it up in a little post that can be looked at, as opposed to trying to explain all of that in 3 lines of irc.
mod6: Since now the press path is calculated slightly different now than blindly shoveling in the flow, those tests needed some adjustments on their assertions of expected output.
mod6: not bad! i implemented the pill to calculate the press path from a given leaf. seems to be working pretty well. i ran all my automated tests, passed 50/54 without incident. Four of the tests are pretty complex test cases where we basically yank one of the vpatches out of the middle of a vtree, then test to ensure that we avoid that where required.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-21 14:02 asciilifeform: funny how they put the 'cloud storage' in the bail denial affidavit, but have not yet even bothered to parallelconstruct some reason ~other than it~ for how the d00d could have been caught.
asciilifeform: ( spoiler : best part is re how evidence remains seekrit, plus the usual claptran in re how e.g. usg not obligated to do anything in return for the confession )
asciilifeform: in other noose,
BingoBoingo: Except no "nao" doesn't read as the same thing it did pre Uruguay
BingoBoingo: And the registrations are starting to trickle in. I R SRS BSNS NAO!
BingoBoingo: And the crashing resumes
shinohai: Seems another scripting language would have been chosen, but meh.
shinohai: "GPS provides several levels of customization, from simple preference dialogs to powerful scripting capability through the Python language" <<< why?
asciilifeform: it comes with the binariolade gnat. if you're using gcc gnat, will have to compile it, a little bit gnarly.
diana_coman: I'll have a look at gps then
asciilifeform: but then again why the everlivingfuck would i run with defaults on a ~configurable~ tool that i use 14+ hr/day )
asciilifeform: emacs per se is nothing to write home about, it is full of gnarly archaicisms , and the default keymapping will, as naggum described, destroy your hands , unless you fix it
asciilifeform: the meaningless shitwork ratio, lacking slime, moves from 0% to ~100%
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 06:21 mircea_popescu: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3129644482406982@naggum.no.html << this exchange with fare is pretty amusing/informative both wrt "who is this francois-rene rideau character ?" and as an early "bitcoin improvements from the sewer" sampler/potputre.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764882 << i'm quite tempted to give the archive another combing and make a sequel to my http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165 item
diana_coman: are you saying that 50x improvement is really due totally to emacs being to any other editor what pen is over feather? because otherwise Nx longer is exactly "nothing else" when N is large enough
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 05:03 mircea_popescu: in other antiqua entomologica arcana, https://www.xemacs.org/About/XEmacsVsGNUemacs.html
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764878 << aaah, the prb of emacs ! it lives on, yes
asciilifeform: and i 'can work' with other editor, just as can write with goose feather and ink also, and can saw with hand saw instead of electric saw... so long as it is understood that everything will take 50x longer.
asciilifeform: the only item i use that has no equiv whatsoever outside of emacsland, is slime
diana_coman: no, in the sense of "80 cols or NOTHING ELSE"; same thing there: can work with emacs or NOTHING ELSE
asciilifeform: in the same sense as e.g. mircea_popescu is 'crippled from' eating at wallmart .
asciilifeform: not sure how it'd cripple , aside from cultivating the 'unreasonable' expectation of sanity (i.e. extensibility) of editor
asciilifeform: ( though if you intend to do any commonlisp, you're more or less doomed to either use it, or emulate it )
diana_coman: as a side note, that's precisely why I did *not* adopt emacs in the end despite liking it quite a lot when met it at uni: it was VERY useful indeed but the sort of useful that was too close to addictive for my liking essentially
asciilifeform: recall the famous 'lions book', was printed in this style
asciilifeform: there's no way around it. ( some people resort to printing 90 degrees to get more cols.
asciilifeform: back when i had a horizontal display, most of the time i had it column-split and emacs 'followmode' to flow proggy between them
diana_coman: I suspect it's more the investment in the habit really; printer might be *one form* but it doesn't convince me much in itself
asciilifeform: i suspect the key difference b/w 'x columns or bust' folx and the others, is the habit of using printer
diana_coman purposefully gets used to all sorts of different things, makes it easy to switch between them really
diana_coman: ah, should have been precise there: they don't make a difference for me at this stage; I can stick to 80 just as I can stick to 76 really
asciilifeform: they make a difference, diana_coman , those 4 chars. just like if you suggested to a railroad to take 4cm from the rail gauge.
asciilifeform would not insist that a vpatch ~itself~ oughta be 80col, as that would constrain the contents even further, to 76 or so
diana_coman: which is perfectly fine with me for code; it's still grating for comments and I'm not sure how this will resolve, it sort of pushes comments out of code (to a place where one can read them as text not as code-which-they-are-not)
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764721 <- so I gather the 80 cols habit won the day for code