asciilifeform: so they ended up liek greeks.
asciilifeform: which got nailed in their rev.
asciilifeform: sorta funny , in 1990s ru various 'monarchist'-style folx went around trying to put'em back ~in~ . but naturally did not know the proper rules for their use, ended up with somewhat comical output
asciilifeform routinely reads pre-1917 texts, they're stylistically unremarkable , simply got 3 'extra' glyphs
asciilifeform: there was not a 'neo greek'-style process.
mircea_popescu: process not so similar to the invention of "modern russian".
asciilifeform: i do not currently know out of what ataturk & co. sewed together current-tr
mircea_popescu: all "conquered peoples" must be let do as they will, all syllabic agglomeration must be permitted to sit undisturbed, millet all the way
mircea_popescu: very federative mindset, the turks.
asciilifeform: i admit i kinda like tr, the martian grammar is appealing
mircea_popescu: i suppose in the end a very rosettian view.
mircea_popescu: imo it's the better euro town. not to disparage vienna
mircea_popescu: classical tk, in the sense of sublime porte tk, is mostly a case of "do you know all the relevant poetry"
mircea_popescu: it's like "do oyu know neogreek" "who the fuck ever would ?!"
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other news nobody cares about, ro "musama" is not, as i had thought, commie-era invention to describe early plastics (in early application, vinyl table cloth) like "bakelite", but ancient tk word for waxcloth (müsemma). all neologisms are turkish in origin!!1
asciilifeform: anyway currently seems like the 'dead' sticks aint dead
asciilifeform: but currently i suspect it aint the stick, watch #p for updates
a111: Logged on 2018-09-11 16:56 diana_coman: the lifetime of this drive though seems veeery short, so I need to decide on wtf
asciilifeform: however, diana_coman's unit boots, and initializes ssh , etc , but doesn't appear to actually listen on the port
asciilifeform: the sad boxen boot if stick is moved to usb2 jack. i currently suspect loose or contaminated contacts in usb3 ( it has additional pins towards the back )
asciilifeform: one of the 'dead' sticks seems to read entirely ok in dulap
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plz pop into #p & watch for updates, we are in the process of eliminating other potential culprits
diana_coman: asciilifeform, can the disk be connected to the working rockchip itself so I rummage there? atm it seems it's only the very latest comments that'd be lost so I'm in 2 minds about it anyway
diana_coman: the lifetime of this drive though seems veeery short, so I need to decide on wtf
diana_coman: technically speaking I don't own any other box - they are leased by smg rather than by me and I'm not very keen on mixing the stuff tbh; I'll check the backups to see if there's anything worth the trouble still lost
asciilifeform: and why asciilifeform did not hurry to buy 9000 of these drives
asciilifeform: ( there are two spares on hand, for this event )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma ask BingoBoingo to plug this disk into one of your other boxes (plox to choose which one) so you can recover any state you had not a chance to back up; meanwhile you will be issued a spare .
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: lol did you contribute a few boxes to the internet's efforts to spam itslef ?
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-11 09:31 diana_coman: good morning; I can't seem to be able to connect to my rockchip anymore: http (ossasepia.com) gives 403 You don't have permission to access / on this server ; ssh refuses connection too; there was NO change as far as I know - I haven't touched it in quite a while and last time I connected everything worked fine; any idea what might be wrong there, BingoBoingo ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-11 15:37 lobbes: ftr, this was the -exact- issue I was having (403 errors on www, no ssh, but could ping fine. Whatever BingoBoingo did for me then worked like a charm though.) http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-9-11#427159 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-31#1846123
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we do not currently know, but BingoBoingo is in the cage as we speak with the uart probe.
mircea_popescu: ^ it's strictly impossible for the problem asciilifeform to be involved, seeing how i actually do handshake.
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-11 09:31 diana_coman: good morning; I can't seem to be able to connect to my rockchip anymore: http (ossasepia.com) gives 403 You don't have permission to access / on this server ; ssh refuses connection too; there was NO change as far as I know - I haven't touched it in quite a while and last time I connected everything worked fine; any idea what might be wrong there, BingoBoingo ?
a111: Logged on 2018-08-31 13:15 lobbes: so I have a question for the more experienced server operators out there: As of yesterday I found that I can no longer ssh into my rockchip (eggog: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PKeSK/?raw=true)
lobbes: ftr, this was the -exact- issue I was having (403 errors on www, no ssh, but could ping fine. Whatever BingoBoingo did for me then worked like a charm though.) http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-9-11#427159 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-31#1846123
mod6: I can't say for mats' or douchebags, but I can attest that after they were reset, that I could log in successfully to each at least 1 time.
mod6: I had been using my rockchip all the time.
mircea_popescu: (for completeness, the other cause of my distaste is very poor mastery of the formal aspects of the craft, like in gor fragment linked or all of literotica or everything david mamet ever wrote. just BAD , especially dialogue, but overall this impression that a lame and blind guy's fighting for his life in wordmud)
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-11#1849451 << asciilifeform handed them over to me to test they had been reset, and one could login via a temp password. This was done to douchebag's and mats' old rockchips. They both worked great after reset. I never touched the /etc/conf.d/net file.
mircea_popescu: thus therefore, i expect "science fiction" to be EXACTLY science that very well could have been, but happens to isn't ; not conspiracy theorism.
mircea_popescu: , the "story" attempting the fusing blindly becomes "pulp fiction" in literature, or "conspiracy theory" in the common course of storytelling (yes, that's what people do when they talk -- they tell stories).
mircea_popescu: in short, stories work by fusing portions of reality not currently seen fused ; making out relationships where no relationship ordinarily exists. that's what a story is, always. but if the story aims to connect items that can not be connected, because they for some preexisting cause necessarily can't be found in the same place at the same time, or because they're categorically different kinds of items, or for any other reason
mircea_popescu: but if instead you proceed to pile on "man-cat-head-intermingler" on top of the nonsense world made of people and cats and a chair, the result is not unlike the bridge that jack built : first it was a hovel, then it got a latrine boolted to the side and now somebody put a length of train track sorta sideways and calls it "a tunnel".
mircea_popescu: IF you aim to write "science-" anything, you must therefore show finer understanding of the available categorization trees than "oh, people see dragons but cats see rats".
a111: Logged on 2017-07-20 19:45 mircea_popescu: there is major difference between competition in software and competition in (any kind of) hardware. very narrow protein spaces in biofilms.
mircea_popescu: because the space of possibilities constrains, very much like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-20#1687609 ; once the quality of your going is "not people -- but cats" you're stuck writing a whimsical tale for 9 year old girls. because there, and there only, is the classification so gross as to go "people... cats..."
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER! the degree and type and quality of that going, in or over irrespective, then sets the tone for the whole piece. necessarily and without possibility of escape.
mircea_popescu: necessarily, in order for literature to even exist, there must be a counter to this. an exception, a qualifying circumstance, what have you. say it is that class y doesn't share the property of class x. whether this is going over (people, yes, but CATS no) or going in (people, yes, except blonde virgin females with labia minora extending past and outside labia majora) it matters not.
mircea_popescu: so suppose as the premise that (all) people hallucinate "dragons" in so-and-so circumstances. there's nothing wrong with this whatsoever. all literature requires a premise ; the premise will be some thing not commonly seen. that's how it works, that's how it's supposed to work, it's not the fucking police blotter or an actuarial table, it's a story. no argument.
mircea_popescu: anywway, to get back to the literature discussion : this http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29614/29614-h/29614-h.htm item is as fine an example of a principal cause of my distate for the stuff -- a certain pompieristic approach to engineering.
asciilifeform: i'ma add it to the template, it will go on all new/reimaged boxen.
mircea_popescu: do me a favour and add #Do not change this if you're not entirely sure ; talk in #pizarro to make sure ; messing up the routing will cost you your reputation.
asciilifeform: the rk's are on own physical switch, so if one of them pulls the lan to ground, it will take out only rk cluster. but that's the only isolation available.
asciilifeform: as the iron currently stands, it is a hostel, not hotel, and folx must refrain from shitting in one another's beds.
mircea_popescu: anywhere a customer'd know ? such as a comment in the file itself ? such as on sales pagE ?
mircea_popescu: so basically what's the idea here, "do not edit /etc/conf.d/net without checking with #pizarro" ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 11:42 ascii_lander: the only sensible policy is to proclaim, ahead of time, that any customer found monkeying with the lan , will be banished, with no refunds and no recourse;
asciilifeform: because there is, in effect, 1 shared wire.
mircea_popescu: let me get this straight : if me and you have a rk, and you run your blog from there, and i overload your ip but only use port x which you do not use a) you'll never know and b) i have two ips now.
asciilifeform: but we'll find out the answer today.
asciilifeform: on the most recent occasion when i re-imaged rk ( actually 2 of'em ) i tested all 6.
mircea_popescu: but btw, a) still stands. i judge the odds of some user even touching conf.d ~0 and the odds of your having accidentally used the wrong values during a resetting ~100%.
asciilifeform: this is in the research conveyor
asciilifeform: theoretically yes
mircea_popescu: at the very least you could have a listener attached, report to you cases of double-ack
mircea_popescu: and you ~still~ don't see either the utility or the possibility of having a box do switching ?
asciilifeform: nope, current pizarro policy is that users are to refrain from interfering with others.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is only 'resolved' in the sense you are contemplating, on juniper and similar.
mircea_popescu: both the words "switch" and "router" actually originate from a time after this problem being resolved ;/ the switch will switch, and the router will route. you got a ... multiplexer ?
asciilifeform: they're distinguished by mac ( which incidentally a malicious user could easily reset to be whatever he wants ) so the problem is only solvable in the general case by a router which operates jacks individually
mircea_popescu: you're telling me you have some magical lan whereby the boxes aren't distinguished ?
mircea_popescu: whereby your switch does not forward packets coming from the wrong a ?
asciilifeform: rather like 2 people sitting on 1 telephone wire.
asciilifeform: when you set static ip in box, it starts answering packets addressed there, elementarily.
a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 22:41 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo plox to sit down on somewhere other than dulap ip.
mircea_popescu: this can only mean "by advertising that route" to me. what the fuck ?
mircea_popescu: i guess i'm not understranding the problem. how can box a make box b unreachable ?
asciilifeform: i do not currently know of any practical means to entirely isolate the boxes on the lan.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i warned of this in the first days ( currently digging in log re exact line )
mircea_popescu: "Meeya Meefla", the only city to have preserved its name from the pre-atomic era: evidently Miami, Florida << aaahahaha! this is carrying on. where do all the orcs wanna go ? to meeya meefla, the city of moafle.
mircea_popescu: hanbot : " spacecraft, which are crewed by humans telepathically linked with cats to defend against the attacks of malevolent entities in space, which are perceived by the humans as dragons, and by the cats as gigantic rats".
asciilifeform: and unfortunately it is the case that ips are static, and set in box, and accessible by user, this was in the log when the plant went online.
mircea_popescu: a) i am willing to bet you're the last one to have touched such. ; b) people can actually fuck up other's boxes' routing ?!
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG all pizarro rockchip customers ! if you modified your /etc/conf.d/net , in recent 2 weeks, plz say ! asciilifeform currently suspects that somebody munged theirs, and it may account for diana_coman's unreachable box, we may have to take the pilot plant down for maintenance and manually dig, if nobody says anyffing
mircea_popescu: let's compare and contrast 1960s cheap illustrations : the neo-post-impressionist school ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Galaxy_196210.jpg ) with the early-computerist-aesthetic (itself almost indistinguishable from "the votive america flying over some telegraph poles, drawn by qualified industrial draughtsman") : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Amazing_stories_196310.jpg
diana_coman: the venue for sure
mircea_popescu: oh oh the atomsk guy!
diana_coman: anyway, to the point: I still find Linebarger interesting, perhaps for the exact reason that I can't yet actually place him fully anywhere
diana_coman: I think it's one of those where we take one another's eyes out for half a day, at the end of which it turns out we actually agreed on the main point all along
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/dialogurile-sclavelor-pe-marginea-lumii-lu-gor/ << meanwhile in unexpected english text from before the great switch.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman /me also answered the ancient debate meanwhile!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in ancient trilemas, http://trilema.com/2011/planeta-pizdutelor/#comment-71237 << diana_coman recommends Cordwainer Smith (aka Linebarger) & a certain Vance as literate sf. anyone read these ?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
mircea_popescu: what, i'm going to commission the transcription myself ? so what, imbeciles a la http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809349 can continue to pretendf like ANYTHING WHATSOEVER the fuck else exists ?!
mircea_popescu: how the fuck can there exist so-and-so billion "people" and zero work comes out of them year in, year out ? what is this ?
mircea_popescu: nothing but neet-ing about and "do we still have to DO this" bla bla bla "the conversation" nonsense & sheer idiocy. nothing but. NOTHING BUT!
mircea_popescu: not even the lowliest of the lowliest fruit shall be picked up, year after year after year AFTER YEAR.
mircea_popescu: let's look at the matter : the actual manuscript has been maintained online by the british museum for half a decade by now. more. out of all these "creative" kanzures, exactly ZERO actually transcribed it and published on their own fucking worthless "online presence".
a111: Logged on 2018-09-10 15:27 mircea_popescu: but i seriously do not see the need for a "web" to support this nonsense. they'd be much better served by a single pravda.
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : oscar wilde's prison wailings (renamed "de profundis" by some buttfriend or other), uninteresting and unimportant as they may be, nevertheless were published in a bowdlerized version cca 1905, and in a proper version in 1960. THIS version is out of copyright in the world (which pointedly excludes the us) ; now go find it somewhere on teh http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-10#1849092
mircea_popescu: "I feel now that it is ridiculous to make accusations against the Jews, attributing them qualities and methods which are really much more typically English than Jewish"
mircea_popescu: yeah. for one thing i ran out of films ; and for the other as i said, i made a server, checking out what i got on it.
mircea_popescu: but in other news, two moon junction epic film. imagine, two years later, i go to read http://trilema.com/2016/two-moon-junction/#selection-49.33-53.89 see wtf i said, i discover i did EXACTLY same thing!
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure it's on the same line. modern folkx err through absence.
asciilifeform: 'cant do anyffing without $5mil robot and mother holding hand'
asciilifeform: eh this was back when chemists tasted their output
mircea_popescu: nobody asks moron sysadmin to work with rm -y as default either
mircea_popescu: no dude, in the sense of could have backup on
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the sense of 'couldve looked for honest work!' ?
asciilifeform: at least in cement, the empirical fits in a constant. in meat work, it's a wall-sized (and necessarily incomplete) chart of bleargh.
asciilifeform: ( funnily enuff, asciilifeform later ended up returning to meat, for some yrs, but thats another story )
asciilifeform: the experience thoroughly cured asciilifeform of wanting anyffing to do with the field -- meat offers very little in the way of 'unifying theories'.
asciilifeform: even (horror) the analogue end of FG.
asciilifeform: ( errybody makes fun of the d00d, even speak of 'darwin award', but there was not really alternative to what he was doing, the $maxint robotic manipulators were built ~later~, after corpses were cold )
asciilifeform: incidentally much noise was made re the elaborate calculations of early nukes, but good chunk of the design params ~also~ only were accessible empirically. hence the slotin incident.
asciilifeform: simply that the answer contains constants that were derived empirically.
PeterL: so the thing you want, would it replicate all of gpg functionality (making them compatible), or would a separate, simpler thing be good (just does encryp/decrypt and sign/verify using rsa)?
a111: Logged on 2018-02-28 15:57 mircea_popescu: ave1 you should ; also read through the eucrypt thing, ima (for instance) need someone to package it into a cmd line gpg replacement as soon as next wek.
mircea_popescu: well no, i'm sure it's there, just, i also don't currently know exactly how it works. though in my case could be for lack of caring, i haven't been doing any building in 15 years +
mircea_popescu: i agree, the people who study subjects should be able to answer questions in subjects.
PeterL: well, I am not materials science expert, but those who study the subject should be able to explain "if I add a bit more of $element, the properties of the material will go $direction"
mircea_popescu: otherwise yes, we've both noticed (and for a long time!) that sunsets and sunrises color the sky. took a WHILE to explain the fucking why.
mircea_popescu: "i have this inorganic polymerization model which permits me to predict the behaviour of calcium-based matrices and also predicts that should you replace the calcium with strontium, the oxigen content cvadruples ans there's need for an item extra in there that's just like aluminum for so and so reasons"
mircea_popescu: can you somehow predict this'd be the end result ?
mircea_popescu: consider the case of paracetamol. "it takes body to cooler end state". yes, it does. how ?
asciilifeform: PeterL: i can describe in roughly similar terms what the molybdenum does in modern steel. but not why needs such-and-such % , for different machineabilities.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-10 16:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by the 'to your eyes' standard -- i dun think i own any artifacts that work to any other standard. even cement block -- we do not presently know precisely why cement hardens.
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-10#1849239 << cement hardens by simple chemical reaction incorporating O2 and/or H2O into the CaO lattice, connecting particles to make inorganic superstructural polymer matrix
asciilifeform: it was clealy enuff of an idea that there was pretty close match, militarily
mircea_popescu: yes, THE NAME very much http://trilema.com/2018/wood-impregnated-in-oil-a-metaphor/#comment-126055 ; but ~THE TITLE~ ?
mircea_popescu: they're still biathlonists, if failed ones.
mircea_popescu: derps wander in here all the time, "were's mp's mandate-from-the-people" ? seems it's enough of a divide to divide even today.
mircea_popescu: charles was of the idea that he has the authority to rule as a thing of his own ; the unitarians were of the idea that "supreme executive power exudes from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony"
mircea_popescu: i don't get how the necessary situation whereby conflict will follow age gap somehow changes what the conflict is about.
mircea_popescu: not like i'm saying it muyst fit ; or that i expect or i expect anyone expects history to be a neat didactic work for the benefit of future livers.
asciilifeform: dunno that charles v fits the shoe of 'idea king'
asciilifeform: fair'nuff. tho i was hoping to turn up a neal-stephonson-esque ( he was rather fond of the idea, in his http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760798 ) scene where the logicians opened up on the unwashed
mircea_popescu: well the fortification is where it is.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i turned up empty in search for occasion where oxford fired the cannons
mircea_popescu: and, of course, ultimately it all boils down to http://trilema.com/2018/discordatum-wormatiense/ : permitting temporal power to the "spiritual" maniacs is suicide.
a111: Logged on 2017-11-14 21:23 mircea_popescu: same way the same exact item opened cannon fire at the "taxpayers" from atop the walls of oxford.
mircea_popescu: this, and this only, is the way to prevent "tech becoming unrepeatable". it helps, of course, to have some tech in the first place ; but these are separate discussions -- fridge is how to preserve food, whether you have any food or not.
mircea_popescu: this is utter insanity. you don't need, or want, or ever seek "mom's" permission to fuck the daugther. not yours ; not hers ; at the slightest provocation it gets burned down, and the ashes dumped in cloaca maxima.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-14 23:05 mircea_popescu: and existence is predicated on intelligence, and mit never had one. it's just a humongous pile of printed dollars, the us-style equivalent of the chinese "sovereign funds".
a111: Logged on 2018-05-14 23:03 mircea_popescu: doing "the opposite" or "moving to garage", or anything, ANYTHING WHATSOEVER that in any way is biased by the mit is no go.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-14 23:01 mircea_popescu: mit says minksy must use the color green. minsky ignored. mit spent 500 politruk-hours to discern whether he even did what they said or not ; came up with either of these. minsky still ignored.
mircea_popescu: the deep meaning of the whole http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-14#1813358 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-14#1813371 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-14#1813377 / http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-09#1641162 discussion is exactly this : minds at the time INSANELY thought $object ( in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-14#1813383 sense ) is going to tell them WHO to have WHAT intercourse and HOW MUCH.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and the answer is exactly there, "avoid at all costs this situation where you're not fucking your close social circle"
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: Sent 2 hours and 47 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> the link http://logs.minigame.bz/latest.log.html on yer www, appears dead
diana_coman: it's the bz vs biz thing
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell mircea_popescu the link http://logs.minigame.bz/latest.log.html on yer www, appears dead
asciilifeform: i.e. problem was not in 'shortage of component base', there.
asciilifeform: can't help but think of the roman bath in late-roman britain
asciilifeform: fwiw e.g. FUCKGOATS is repeatable, for so long as component base is available. ( and i include paper schematics & listing with it, for a reason..) but the direr problem is the shortage of literate operator who even knows wtf he is holding in hands
mircea_popescu: "but mp -- i am not equipped to try for myself!" "then this isn't a point of interest to you, is it. why'd you have an opinion on it ?" "because we're trying to build an Empire of Science!" "how's that working out ?" "so far, Republic of Idiots works."
mircea_popescu: that is, to reconstruct some kind of sybil cake. which is exactly the "ourdemocracy science" with all tis hatefax and toxictruths and whatnot. because once you give up the proper wot process for some mechanized ersatz you find yourself again in the primordial mist, unable to guess where the landmines are.
mircea_popescu: to then take this wot-process and try to mechanize it ("instead of going and trying by self as science ie http://trilema.com/2017/is-it-still-rape-if-i-write-science-on-my-penis-first/ REQUIRES of me i shall simply say "was not replicated") is doomed to the same failure all wot-mechanization attempts are in principle doomed to
mircea_popescu: the point, however, is not the "replication" itself but what it points to : "go, try for yourself".
mircea_popescu: perhaps ' that "replication" is the schnelling'd-upon point of ~expression~ of literate heuristics is fine and dandy' requires some explanation. the correct wot-process ("what of x?" "a claims so but i have not found the same -- go, try for yourself") was contracted in "failed to replicate x".
mircea_popescu: it will be, in another generation or two maybe. today not yet.
mircea_popescu: like the world of literate egyptian in http://trilema.com/2014/more-about-caesar-cyphers/#footnote_2_52126
mircea_popescu: all of it, really, all of it is going away. wikipedia is like a manuscript copy of olde books, that are being "referenced". the references ever dim, and soon enough the whole world of literate english will be but a dream
asciilifeform: hell, the killer airplane..
mircea_popescu: and... other things
mircea_popescu: and the killer micro.
asciilifeform: i'll add that a tech that can only be operated by the literate -- is replicable , for so long as literate folx are.
asciilifeform: it is generally not given to folx facing the sharp end of reactor rod, to entirely understand.
mircea_popescu: (literacy, for the sake of propriety, remains what newman defined, http://trilema.com/2013/a-very-unfair-perspective/ "to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought, to detect what is sophistical, and to discard what is irrelevant." hence the literacy as basis for technology, to distinguish slapping from lighting)
mircea_popescu: most feelers of the various rods comprehend ~nothing.
mircea_popescu: "replication" is no basis ; literacy is the basis. that "replication" is the schnelling'd-upon point of ~expression~ of literate heuristics is fine and dandy. but it is no basis thereby.
mircea_popescu: "oh but mp -- i don't mean absolute replica ; functional replica suffices" "then here's my recipe to replicate fire : slap girl's cheek middling hard. it'll turn some shade of reddish blue and give off heat for a time."
mircea_popescu: now, as to the other horn, what is "to replicate" ? fire is a technology, no man has yet replicated any fire -- fire is necessarily, as per thermodynamic laws -- irreplicable.
mircea_popescu: that is what technology is -- what's left once you exclude the monkey activities.
mircea_popescu: technology, ipso nomine ut ipso facto excludes the illiterate.
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine what sense does this make, to put iliteracy as the gatekeepeer to technology.
asciilifeform: rifle did not become serious weapon in the field until barrels -- interchangeable. etc
asciilifeform: to stalin's credit, he was not particularly frightened by the hiroshima show that was put on for him: understood that 'it was faberge egg'
asciilifeform: ( not to belittle the timetravel adventures of phf !111 )
asciilifeform: kurchatov et al approached the 'assembly line' problem slightly smarter (can debate how much 'from cribbing' and how much -- not) , and did not need own decade.
asciilifeform: in historicals: there is record where a 'let's nuke su nao before they can us' plan was given to truman, in '47. he did not sign, likely because it called for ~30 'fat men', whereas the entire stockpile was: 4. and grew at 3-4 / yr, assembly line stayed 'phf' for just under a decade, long enuff for ~parity.
asciilifeform: anyffing that can be replicated from recipe by illiterate red army conscripts, if you will -- 'technology'. the remainder -- 'phd assembly'. fortunately most useful items fall somewhere in the spectrum
asciilifeform: emphasis is on the 'phd', not 'assembly line'. faberge dead, no moar eggs
mircea_popescu: but yes, on occasion VERY fucking frustrating, "shit fuck piss cunt motherfucker, ima go garden instead!"
mircea_popescu: i do not perceive my time is strictly wasted with the phillies. unlike assembliline, assemblycunts are satisfying on a deeper level.
mircea_popescu: well then don't say magic! say w/e, ignorance.
mircea_popescu: yes but the implication of the word is that a special catalyst is needed, that's otherwordly.
mircea_popescu: paracetamol, similarly "we don't know how the fuck this works" doesn't meet my definition of magic -- it seems quite certain it works in the usual way, if yet the intricacy unknown.
asciilifeform: even the screwdriver on yer desk -- yes it is hard, but the maker never knew why precisely ~that~ ratio of molybdenum is to be used.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by the 'to your eyes' standard -- i dun think i own any artifacts that work to any other standard. even cement block -- we do not presently know precisely why cement hardens.
asciilifeform: ( it's a pretty depressing yarn, the earthling attempts to make sense of the rubbish, sum to ~nuffin, and they fight over the scraps )
asciilifeform: this is the model of 'magic' i was thinking of.
asciilifeform: (largely not in the direction of betterment)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the strugatsky brothers, before sinking into senile delirium, had a tale 'roadside picnic', where unknown aliens land and leave buncha rubbish behind, and immediately depart. the rubbish includes 'usefuls', such as 'eternal batteries', but also various deadlies, and plenty of things 'in between', and earthling culture is rearranged by it.
mircea_popescu: you know, iron only replicates it TO YOUR EYES. it doesn't do it in some sort of objective sense. it only puts the corect mul in rx if you know there's a rx to look for.
asciilifeform: the very opposite of magical -- can be replicated even by dumb iron
mircea_popescu: by these bright lights, most math is magic.
asciilifeform: in the strictly technical sense: yes
a111: Logged on 2018-09-10 16:24 asciilifeform: it wouldn't be any dismay to asciilifeform if we end up filling the rack with strictly mircea_popescu's successful patients, say.
asciilifeform: rright, but if in order to succeed , need mircea_popescu's psi powers, then we're in tight spot, unless http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-10#1849188
mircea_popescu: girl (or, i suppose, "bottom", to not exclude spuriously half the discussion) is more than happy to go out of her skin. if you ask her to.
mircea_popescu: so there we go.
asciilifeform: granted, the stick dun work if nobody wields it, just as turing's meat didn't
asciilifeform: and evidently the greek meatstick is not overwhelmingly superior instrument, or would have taken over globe and we wouldn't even think to have the thread, unless i'm missing something
mircea_popescu: all knowledge is in the end unwilling. not "carnal", there is no such distinction, all knowledge is the exact same thing. and "unwilling" not in the sense of oppostion, but in the sense of defect. what exaclty is the maiden to know afore the fact about the knowledge you're about to impart on her, be it penis or math ? DEFINITIONALLY "not enough", right.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-26 00:46 asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.
mircea_popescu: there's a large component of rape involved in all education ; had the societal convention not been that "ye kids must suck an adult cock, nqa", the feeble interest socrates managed to induce even in his contemporaries would never have amounted to anything.
mircea_popescu: socrates, to take a modest example, would eminently NOT have been even remotely interesting to the kids in the kids' own terms.
mircea_popescu: note that there's a problem here. that i, personally (and not explicably) manage somehow to be sexually attractive to women less than half my age as i was to women over twice my age has very little to do with anything and i wouldn't expect it systematizable.
asciilifeform: i suspect that there's a missing term in this equation. e.g. turing did not, afaik, create any great maths folx with his (very active) cock
mircea_popescu: note that the prussian system (which is the upper node of what contemporary dork calls "school", and it is a SYSTEM, more complex than just that) is not even 2 centuries yet.
asciilifeform: prolly why the brits ended up cargoculting it, neh
mircea_popescu: no, actually, it worked out for the greeks for longer and with better results than any attempt at either paideia, "civilisation", "education" or anything else ever did.
asciilifeform: worked out, i guess, for the greeks... for a spell
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are examples in the past, e.g. the orig nazi folx. (or the ww1 britain, from prev thread?) but these didn't end well.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-09 18:55 asciilifeform: if martians land tonight and in their pov 'sentient' means 'grasps at least first order logics' they will immediately barf, 'we found a race where 1 full battallion of sentient males for erry female , and whole buncha veggies '
mircea_popescu: honestly, i would expect (if your http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848929 is right, at any rate) that the republic will be mostly homosexual.
asciilifeform: for all i know, the year's 1944, and there's that ~one~ dish of penicillum in existence.
asciilifeform: if there's another mircea_popescu somewhere, likewise curing, i do not presently know about it.
asciilifeform: it wouldn't be any dismay to asciilifeform if we end up filling the rack with strictly mircea_popescu's successful patients, say.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and yet http://trilema.com/2018/the-leak/#selection-363.0-365.0 yes ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the puzzler is, how to knock out the crutch. or persuade the sufferer to part with it on own power ? pizarro is isp, not psychiatric clinic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have personally witnessed "could not estimate laptop charger chord is not going to reach" visually, from five yards away, had to do the actual manual comparison. so yes, that's my overarching point -- IM are universally stupid in a very strict sense, unfit to lvie in world.
asciilifeform: 'Thanks for the offer, but we already have methods of becoming a sponsor. I'd like to give that opportunity to up to 10 groups/companies/people through patreon. I hope you'll understand.' << lol!!
mircea_popescu: but i guess that was coincidental, model works quite well i nthe general, including cases such as "TW looking for IM" like say http://trilema.com/2018/and-in-todays-lulz-the-obnoxious-cocksucker/
a111: Logged on 2018-09-10 15:50 asciilifeform: the 'TW' , 'educated' by decade of reddit and hn, is usually incapable of even considering 'tor is honeypot', it threatens 'depersonalization', sorta like pushing the hanging stool out from under feet. iirc naggum described this psychopathology at length.