BingoBoingo: The L moiety is defined such that your knight at b1 could move to a3, c3, or d2
moiety: ive been taught it wrong then. i have been trying to move c1 to d3.
BingoBoingo: moiety: They do move in an L, but only that one size of L.
moiety: i thought they went L, is that bishops
bitcoinpete: BingoBoingo: My skepticism was confusing to most of them
BingoBoingo: bitcoinpete: Then smoke a bowl with nubbins' and relax
jcpham: next they'll be planning meet ups
bloctoc: ethereum
bloctoc: has etheream been discussed in here yet?
moiety: are they really good or really bad you mean?
BingoBoingo: I think we are caught up to the current state of the game, moiety does this look right?
BingoBoingo: moiety: Collect the moves so far and put them in http://htmlchess.sourceforge.net/demo/example.html
BingoBoingo: moiety: Castling is moving the king two spaces horizontally and then the rook cuddles it
moiety: bingo but i thought castles could only move to the corners, you dont have a free corner
mircea_popescu: fucking greek means of production based on italian fisherman dishes as implemented by american kids who sleep under desks in offices because even that's more interesting than their social life.
mircea_popescu: Work on the Diaspora software began in May 2010. Finn Brunton, a teacher and digital media researcher at New York University, described their method as "a return of the classic geek means of production: pizza and ramen and guys sleeping under the desks because it is something that it is really exciting and challenging." A developer preview was released on September 15 and received criticism for various security bugs
mircea_popescu: 0-0 is the short castling ye ninnies
moiety: i don't think bingo can type from hitting his forehead of the desk rightnow
moiety: i have no idea what the board looks like
moiety: aaaaaaand did double take there at dundee lol
herbijudlestoids: moiety: if you dont finish the match we will never hear the end of it. i can wait to hassle bingo about my retardedness :)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: devise, then... elephant routing. i'm off to bed.
herbijudlestoids: this place is one of the more intellectually stimulating corners of the internet and i have become tired
BingoBoingo: pankkake: No, it is turtles all of the way down, like iran
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Why I don't use either seems like decent IT homework reading
pankkake: is the turtle on elephants?
pankkake: when I mentionned diaspora I meant projects that got hype despite being lead by people unqualified for the task, and ignoring the existing solutions
herbijudlestoids: pankkake: but some projects are still projects even though they had huge risk of becoming nonprojects. like freenet! and i2p!
BingoBoingo: They nevar did that to me.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: after the initial hype, i did some trolling and ignored it. forgot about it. but then, they subscribed me to the mailing list...somehow, i dunno even know how they got my email address. maybe i accidentally entered it somewhere bitcloud related. but i figured since they invited me to the discussion, i would make my viewpoint heard on their mailing list, reddit, irc, etc
nubbins`: she now wants tote bags printed and they're made out of weed
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo herbijudlestoids you've really been in all the shitholes huh
herbijudlestoids: pankkake: yea i feel it. there is lots of abandonware out there...some even had potential
BingoBoingo: diaspora was the worst. Inquisition was better
nubbins`: have i complained about the client who wants organic tank tops?
pankkake: I'm tired of all the nonprojects
herbijudlestoids: he already unsubscribed me from the mailing list :P
herbijudlestoids: anyway im done, i dont know if theres much more i can do
herbijudlestoids: just the ones that really get my grill
herbijudlestoids: not all the idiots
asciilifeform: '...but the pig will enjoy it.'
herbijudlestoids: if he spends an hour writing a response to my complaints its an hour he cant spend otherwise
herbijudlestoids: nah, but he is out there, and any disruptions i can cause to his presence on the internet is an automatic gain to the rest of internetdom
herbijudlestoids: then go home and hang up my hat feeling satisfied that id done something meaningful with my life
herbijudlestoids: well, except Javier the douchenozzle
mircea_popescu: everyone agrees the thing is ridiculous
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: they certainly are not. i am triplecheesecheese.
herbijudlestoids: try it out then, lots of recent improvements
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids are all the commenters your socks ?
pankkake: I really like the darknet/opennet approach
herbijudlestoids: pankkake: and when was the last time you used it?
mircea_popescu: learn to keep logs they be important
mircea_popescu: i can't believe the canonical windoze fork bomb uses goto.
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: certainly i dont disagree with your statement sir however i doubt any who are proponents of these anti ASCI coins are thinking that
asciilifeform: (i.e. serious mathematical advance)
asciilifeform: asics make it hard to flee to a new workfunction if the old one is somehow borked.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: well unfortunately i didnt keep logs of my efforts in the irc chan, but here is the reddit thread i started for lulz www.reddit.com/r/bitcloud/comments/1xlwp5/bitcloud_prefers_hype_to_work/
asciilifeform: herbijudlestoids: there are rational arguments against 'asicability' that don't reduce to 'one meat puppet, one vote damnit'
mircea_popescu: anyway, kinda funny that the alt was the true altcoin before there were fake altcoins
herbijudlestoids: i have been trolling the shit out of bitcloud
asciilifeform: (vizier promises to put one grain on a square, two on the next, four...)
asciilifeform: that must be one fellow who never read the chessboard-rice tale as a boy.
mircea_popescu: the little error is well... some billions.
mircea_popescu: Sorry for the little error, I changed it to 2^32, total number is 4294967296.
mircea_popescu: The Turd Bitcoin
asciilifeform: 'The True Bitcoin, Discovered!1!!'
asciilifeform: beautiful. now all they need is a media loudspeaker
asciilifeform: still waiting for the first altturd called 'bitcoin'.
mircea_popescu: clearly this coin is the solution to all centralisation troubles.
mircea_popescu: "Sorry about that. I was doing some work on the server and accidentally killed the stratum."
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: some ex-soviet badlands still use exchanges with mechanical Strowger switches. and in-band. bluebox there.
asciilifeform: eh, the way earthlings roll, that's several 'Year Zero's away.
moiety: i'm the colour of milk naturally. ok, give me a sec, gonna have to find a board to see
mircea_popescu: check it out, they decided 4gb should be enough for everyone on sunday 2694
BingoBoingo: "The Gods Must be Crazy"
asciilifeform: "Bitcoin interests me as an obvious example of a technological jewel tossed around aimlessly by the brutal hands of cave men. I cant help but picture a flashlight or a radio set, left behind in the wilderness by geologists, to be picked up later by some Stone Age aboriginals; to be fought over and worshiped. Until the batteries run out. But the batteries have not yet run out!" -- old turd of mine
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The old GTE payphone Verizon hasn't killed yet may still be vulnerable.
herbijudlestoids: i dont think any phone system has in band signalling since the early 90s, even in oz
asciilifeform: not so much colonized as dropped straight into their hands at birth, and slowly wrestled out, with partial success so far
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: no they dont work anymore
asciilifeform: that's precisely the thing. warm body rights.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the essence is, some people have a fundamental but unspoken disagreement with the basic premise behind mining. <<< exactly.
herbijudlestoids: they feel that ASICS are "unfair"
asciilifeform: or their phriends
asciilifeform: i.e. they want to parcel out new coin to warm bodies
asciilifeform: the essence is, some people have a fundamental but unspoken disagreement with the basic premise behind mining.
pankkake: I remember when deepbit was the big bad
moiety: either you choose
mircea_popescu: "Now that Bitcoin computational power is handled almost entirely by large data centers, the currency has rapidly changed from a distributed, decentralized currency, to one that is much more centralized and vulnerable. Companies such as Cex.io are routinely hitting 40% PoW computational power on a daily basis, and will soon be able to perform 51% attacks at will, if they so choose."
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids welcome to the club.
herbijudlestoids: i really dont understand what everyone seems to think the value of ASIC proofing a network is
asciilifeform: pankkake: what's with the obligatory faux-gold-coin pics, anyway
BingoBoingo: pankkake: Troll the imposter coin.
moiety: play me then BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: moiety: BSD isn't too different. If you take that route O'Reilley has a minature verion of their sysadmin essentials book which would be valuable.
mircea_popescu: what was the cmd bomb for windows ?
BingoBoingo: moiety: If that is the case just skip linux and go to a BSD or Gentoo
moiety: i am still at the same position as that day BingoBoingo. I can still see the linux CDs on top of my pc. I just never used them yet
asciilifeform: probabilistic algo. also quite possible that it will never converge (i.e. nothing useful hashes to fooXXXX... where foo is the vanity string)
mircea_popescu: ctrl-alt-tit should be a shocker then.
benkay: mike_c: using and extending the protocol is a non-starter right now. first we need a rock-solid, well-defined thing.
mircea_popescu: what's the minimum dust atm ? 54300 ?
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: ok is there some minimum youd consider? i have more but in immature blocks. willing to wait
KRS-One: I could put my dick out there and gt a few bucks for it
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There'a actually barely anything on the book preventing 10,000 satoshis as well though
KRS-One: of course becase there isnt any demand or volume
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There is barely anything stoping 645 from happening
BingoBoingo: After the time it takes to withdraw 27500 ATC from Openex I'd be willing to sell it for the same 645 satoshi bid I have nao.
herbijudlestoids: so the answer is no. nobody is willing to purchase a small amount of ATC off me for the purpose of establishing my trust on WoT
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: and how the f am i supposed to sell other shit on -otc without a WoT rating?
herbijudlestoids: since you guys all love the fucken WoT
mike_c: benkay: yes, i was just saying it is insufficient. it describes the process, but does not help you extend it or use it because you don't know any of the rationale. we worked the point over pretty good about an hour ago :)
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: No, we are discussing constraints of the system.
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: And we are talking pricing. Unless you do like the candy shop and package the atc with a teddy bear, there is no room for a premium to be demanded.
benkay: mike_c: are you satisfied with <asciilifeform> the only truly unambiguous definition of a computation is the
herbijudlestoids: dude we are talking 56 of them, not 5,600,000
herbijudlestoids: sell for the midpoint between bid/ask on openex
herbijudlestoids: i have 56 of them which are mature enough to transfer
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I might be willing to sell ATC at the right price, but my drunk ass isn't buying.
herbijudlestoids: would any of you sirs be interested in purchasing a small amount of ATC off me, for the sole purpose of increasing my WoT rating from 0?
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids for the same reason you're not fucking all the floozies in your town right now.
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: No. You just said you play poorly so taking you at face value I want to know if you have a stronger color, which might make the game more interesting.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Davout is also been asking if he can get a late entry into the round robin.
BingoBoingo: Twas on the night I almost finished a handle of Vodka
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: As far as the tournament you spec'd goes my only credited loss is to namworld.
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: so the bitcoind/bitcoin-qt implementation cannot be used for its intended purpose of sending/receiving/storing bitcoin blockchain whatevers
herbijudlestoids: from a development perspective? as in unusable to modify/update the code?
pankkake: the initial code was horrible, couldn't get it to compile, full of wxwindows crap where there shouldn't be. stayed away :/
mircea_popescu: it has since been "fixed" in the hands of mediocre coders with no system design comprehension whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids the original stuff was poorly written by one unexperienced coder with a lot of system design experience.
herbijudlestoids: i was under the impression that the existing implmentation was pretty well coded (at least from a security perspective) but it seems like most on here disagree
pankkake: what about the Go implementation?
mircea_popescu: and the middle.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Also throw away the last 2/3rds
herbijudlestoids: in reference to the current bitcoin "reference implementation"?
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids the point in quesiton is "throw away the first chapter of your novel"
herbijudlestoids: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/how-the-cia-turned-american-literature-into-a-content-farm
mircea_popescu: and the guy has absolutely no idea who hemingway was.
ozbot: It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times: throwing out your first chapter - National Wri
mircea_popescu: http://www.examiner.com/article/it-was-the-best-of-times-it-was-the-blurst-of-times-throwing-out-your-first-chapter
mircea_popescu: well it's supposed to be funny by contrast. the one team that didn't need tech
mike_c: mircea_popescu: i don't get the joke, but i get your point.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that'd hardly win you the slimmest turd contest.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I am pretty sure the solution to that problem is skipping ms-dos or any other os nd just writing asm hello world
mircea_popescu: mike_c buncha teams are presenting offers to build a brige. they all start from both sides. one team has laser sensors and whatever, the 2nd satellite and whatnot
asciilifeform: birthing a parsimonious implementation of something (i.e. one that can actually be understood) is not necessarily the same as the student pissing contest of 'write the shortest hello world for ms-dos in asm'
mike_c: hmm. we're talking about different jokes. i'm talking about bob the bridge builder
mircea_popescu: if they don't, i guess you get two
mircea_popescu: if they meet, you got your bridge
mike_c: only the bridge builder one
mircea_popescu: you know the bridges joke ?
mircea_popescu: why does it have to be an either anyway ?
BingoBoingo: I can't believe B007 quit before I had the chance to drop links
mike_c: asciilifeform: ok.. so you are saying reverse engineer instead of start from the top.
mircea_popescu: mike_c i suspect the code only came because the response to the paper was a particular brand of retarded.
asciilifeform: and parts held together with tape.
asciilifeform: we've got the robot. with a warehouse's worth of extraneous junk welded to it.
mircea_popescu: why are you so focused on the building and implementation notional universe ?
mike_c: you don't build the perfect factory by starting to build the machines. you figure out the overall process first, the steps. then you build the robots.
mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of agreeing how we'd like the vase to look, but a matter of representing how gravity actually and in fact does work
mike_c: yes. and perhaps satoshi could write that. barring that, i think the order should be: we agree on the rationale, then are capable of writing the kalishnikov version.
asciilifeform: the way one understands a kalashnikov.
asciilifeform: the question is not of a 'perfect' implementation,
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, they debated Parimenides versus Heraclitus and just raped each other.
mike_c: yes, which is why i think the logic of bitcoin being organized is more important than the perfect implementation.
mircea_popescu: basically a pull rather than a push for now because we aren't yet as formalised
mike_c: mircea_popescu: wait. i disagree. how are you supposed to learn the rationale? this is why something BingoBoingo collecting satoshi's mails are useful.
asciilifeform: MisterE: they have runaway mints of their own. national scamcoins, on the other hand, are inevitable.
BingoBoingo: B007: But a laundry maker in your pooper, write Bingo on your left asscheek and Boingo on your right asscheek. I'll pay 0.01 BTC for the picture.
MisterE: I dunno why countries that want to break the dollar hegemony already like S. American's who have been fucked by the US / CIA for decades don't start their own cryptocurrency
mike_c: the problem is bitcoin has no competition. so we get away with doing a crappy job.
MisterE: if it goes back to $1k I'll go in there and retrieve it :d
MisterE: too bad I missed out on the ponzi
BingoBoingo: MisterE: Well, in Bitcoin polite is neither asking now answering exaclty how much BTC one holds. If you must ask, Roughly or Publically how much BTC do you hold is on the line of acceptable. As far as answering though even saying "I hold between zero and inside your mom right now BTC" is still polite.
mircea_popescu: mike_c there's no particular requirement that people who don't already know the rationales sould be involved in writing any code.
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/TomHoepfner/status/431739694250856448 << max keiser offloading the support task for his shitcoin upon freenode staff :D
asciilifeform: mike_c: i'd love to read 'Bitcoin, the book.' with rationales. but it would be of little worth without a strictly-minimal, brain-loadable reference implementation.
mircea_popescu: for the lolz of it : mpex actually discontinued withdrawals first
mike_c: feature freeze is fine, write PEPs for the features already existing :)
benkay: mike_c: is that a reference to the Python Enhancement Proposal?
MisterE: anybody who says they know shit about BTC should be ignored
MisterE: the best investment in BTC is infrastructure provider, who got rich on ever gold rush? not the miners, the people who sold them gear. BTC network infrastructure for transactions is the future of financial transactions even if BTC is not the coin / currency in use
MisterE: they sure do fill up my timeline with tweets a lot though
MisterE: not sure exactly what they are doing
MisterE: if you transfer within CB it doesn;t show in the blockchain
MisterE: they will
BingoBoingo: MisterE: Exchanges don't have their own internal chains. They just handle the actual chain poorly
MisterE: so exchanges have their own internal chains
BingoBoingo: The Gox, if they are reliable narrators, problem is they rely on txid as a primary key in their databases. txid makes a poor primary key
MisterE: transactions must move out of the blockchain it cant grow forever
MisterE: eventually this is the future
MisterE: a couple breakthroughs such as hiphop and the hip hop vm jit compiler saved their ass by like weeks
BingoBoingo: MisterE: Seems if they are are honest more of a problem of picking the wrong values to use as database primary keys.
MisterE: FB almost went dark because they couldn't scale their php to run in huge distributed environments well
MisterE: the BTC malleability bug has been known for better part of a year
MisterE: BingoBoingo: the problem is Gox's own fuckedup internal wallet system that allowed double spending.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu2: Well, if they serve you a suspicious IP at least you can know it isn't the meta-nsa
nubbins`: got two round loaves in the oven now
B007_: is mircea_popescu2 even the real one
nubbins`: behold the bounty of nubbins`
ozbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
Mats_cd03: I think it'd be easy, I might even start writing the code now just to see it happen
decimation: mike, I think the "why" can only be conveyed in plain English, like an RFC
mike_c: A formal definition for protocol is necessary, but also insufficient. So now you know "how". But if you don't know "why", you are still going to end up fucked. The why is more important.
herbijudlestoids: decimation: someone was complaining earlier that the number of nodes in the bitcoin network running the actual "reference implementation" that avoids this transaction malleability issue has dropped from ~10,000s in 2011 to ~1000 today
BingoBoingo: So long as the coins are one's personal coins
mike_c: yeah.. not about understanding the notation. i can read assembly too, but i'd rather read C. but perhaps for something like the network protocol you're right.
B007_: digitalocean will lock your accout automatically if they recieve abuse complaints about you
benkay: BingoBoingo: yeah, like the part where you buy 'em.
Mats_cd03: everytime you hit $n dollars another one gets spun up for y days
BingoBoingo: benkay: Some parts of bitcoin are friendlier to dilettantes than others.
benkay: arguably, if you can't figure it out you shouldn't be fucking with it, and if you can't spend the time to learn the notation ditto.
benkay: algebra is entirely acceptable for the spec of both network protocol and blockchain parsing.