asciilifeform: i post this turd here, to challenge the 1,000 idlers listening to us, to do so.
asciilifeform: i have so little faith in the meta-nsa that i'll drop one here.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in a world where every "idea" is in fact chewed and spit and chewed so many times by so many generations by now all that's left is the spit itself << not quite.
gribble: You are now authenticated for user asciilifeform with key B98228A001ABFFC7
BingoBoingo: Looks like Openex just processed a batch of withdrawls. Once these things confirm it will be time to shoot them over to x-bt
mircea_popescu: omfg the derpage.
benkay: plus also the animations are pretty sweet
mircea_popescu: yeah even on the internets ppl need a little time
BingoBoingo: benkay: They have processed withdrawals before, it just usually takes 12 hours or so. Now, their order matching... totally scam.
Apocalyptic: first ATC deposits will confirm in a couple of hours given the network rate, no much action to be expected until then
BingoBoingo: I'm wondering when other ATC people are coming over to Apocalyptic's exchange.
Bugpowder: you know... place asks and bids way off market at round numbers, get favorably filled at random intervals in the future.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Of course. Who really wants to use their acquaintance Brian in that way at all. Everyone knows their Brian will just flag everything as a scam and tell them to STFU n00b.
Bugpowder: I like the cryptsy system of, whatever bid you place that is over market, you get filled at asks at that exact price.
davout: deanclkclk: because you reinvented market orders, except you have the currency amount you're spending locked, not the currency you're buying
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder the bot just as soon as it manages to talk to bitcoincharts
Bugpowder: mircea_popescu: when is the MPOEbot coming back? And when will pending deposits be credited?
davout: yeah, i got that the first time
deanclkclk: so basically you could have a case where for the original $100 for 1 BTC..I get 1.02 btc
deanclkclk: and use the $5 dollars to find an additional ask
davout: i spend all the 100$ and get more btc
Apocalyptic: BTC China already has these rebates, where the fee for the liquidity taker goes to the one who put up the bid/ask
Apocalyptic: <deanclkclk> davout: basically from a trade..people get more from what they ask for // so what about it ?
pankkake: idea: when you overpay for shares, it is distributer to the seller; we would call this tipping
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i was in talks with some people to recharge your phone after bids if there's like stuff left over
deanclkclk: davout: basically from a trade..people get more from what they ask for
mircea_popescu: im going to shoot myself with the stapler gun nao
mircea_popescu: benkay Yeah, Im getting rid of all my furniture. All of it. And Im going to build these different levels, with steps, and itll all be carpeted with a lot of pillows. You know, like ancient Egypt.
deanclkclk: I'll try another irc. You guys are too playful to be taken seriously
benkay: and maybe in retrospect it's not so much a shorting as entering into an option to spend some time if the guy leaves us alone, delivery of which he'll take when/if he delivers
mircea_popescu: davout so there's 11 stock pics or w/e.
davout: the insured guys are elliptic.co btw
ThickAsThieves: just recalled the name for some reason
mircea_popescu: davout who are the 11 people ?
davout: Duffer1: looks interesting, i see nothing obviously sketchy for the service
mircea_popescu: it's there so i can ip-ban spammy rss stealers.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, pankkake you may wanna take out the OTQuMjMuMjE1LjE3NA== part.
mircea_popescu: so now that we understand ourselves, get in the wot, stfu and read the log for a while, then we can talk again.
mircea_popescu: more importantly, you aren't at liberty to ignore the recommendations i make. re-read the log, they're there.
mircea_popescu: and you are neither at liberty to judge me nor are you at liberty to make recommendation.
deanclkclk: rather than complain..offer suggestions
mircea_popescu: to have fixed answers for such low level questions at this juncture merely indicates you do not have the intellectual resources to correctly model the problem you declare./
mircea_popescu: the decision of how many months of free trade to have is a resolution of the greater issue of how to market a product, which is in turn decided and framed by greater issues.
Duffer1: if your bid matches a sell, the exchange executes the trade for however much the seller sold
benkay: deal? you stop bothering us about this until it's done, when it's done i audit your codebase.
benkay: all the audits going to say is probably something like "kinda full of holes, operationally bogus, liable to lose your coins"
Duffer1: i don't see why you would want to dean, a person can just set their price to buy until their 100 is spent
benkay: ThickAsThieves: he's convinced me to hack an allchain watcher together
deanclkclk: the site does it for you
deanclkclk: so I'm saying rather than get back $5 dollars and create another trade; which time is money and during that creation you might miss a chance on a great trade
benkay: gotta keep the brain in tip top condition
deanclkclk: if I bid $100 BTC but, I got it with 99 Duffer1 ..either the user gets back $5 dollars or they trade it for some additional BTC/Satoshis
ThickAsThieves: if i understand your idea, all it does is market buy with the rest of any money you bid, if you happened to overbid
deanclkclk: yes..that's the minimum ThickAsThieves
benkay: and i'll go through the trouble of auditing your code.
benkay: set up the simulations
ThickAsThieves: you are scratching the surface
ThickAsThieves: they explained it to you
deanclkclk: rather calling me stupid
ThickAsThieves: well the orders are always changing
deanclkclk: I just reread what you type and I think there's a misunderstanding
mircea_popescu: shut up and spend the next year reading, you're not part of the speaking crowd here.
mircea_popescu: i like the folks attention bit. who do you take yourself for dood.
Duffer1: multiple tangents and generally talking past eachother? ya
Duffer1: how long ago? lloyds is covering some bitcoin based noob vault, they may be receptive
ThickAsThieves: (the ginger beer)
gribble: Usagi: falsifying NAVs, manipulating share prices and misleading ...: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=113708.0>; Typhoon USAGI (ODETTE) Update Number 007 | Weather Philippines: <http://weather.com.ph/announcements/typhoon-usagi-odette-update-number-007>; Typhoon USAGI (ODETTE) Update Number 008 | Weather Philippines: <http://weather.com.ph/announcements/typhoon-usagi- (1 more message)
benkay: nah if any'd obtained the necessary ins
mircea_popescu: davout sure they had.
davout: i doubt any exchange found an insurance company to cover the btc deposits
mircea_popescu: the english language being employed is more an artefact of the observer than a reality of the conversation.
mircea_popescu: here on -assets we specialise in animated conversations with multiple participants all of which have no certain idea wtf the topic is, what's being said, what it means and so on.
davout: pankkake: oic the question was about btc deposits
mircea_popescu: yeah but novel stuff thus unearthed
mircea_popescu: otherwise that's grossly misrepresentative.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless do go back and add addendums wherever feasible
davout: anyway, the main point is that the money is on accounts in the name of the holders, in a financial insitution, not on our corporate accounts, and therefore legally not ours
davout: which was a mistake, i double checked with the "fonds de garantie des dépôts" and they only cover accounts called "comptes de dépôt", and not "comptes de paiement"
davout: pankkake: what about the insured deposits ?
Jere_Jones: Catching up on the last hour of conversation is depressing.
mircea_popescu: there's not this convenient cleavage of school from life irl.
mircea_popescu: the thing that qualifies a good lay is exactly the thing that disqualifies a rotten one
pankkake: probably lacked the street smarts
mircea_popescu: well it's a well known joke this, "suicide, 3 shots to the head"
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Well, the nails themselves slow bleeding. And there was no evidence he was intelligent at all.
ThickAsThieves: if youre gonna kill yourself and you are intelligent, wtf would you nailgub yourself, and when did go for it, how the hell do you make it to 7 or 8 in the body and head?
mircea_popescu: <benkay> << one could, perhaps, but defo not by persevering in the manner that got them the original reputation in the first place.
Duffer1: oh shi there's more?
ThickAsThieves: random thought, there;s no way in hell that wall st guy put 8 nails in himself
BingoBoingo: I am the n00btrap.
ThickAsThieves: ATC Trader to the Stars
ThickAsThieves: ATC Manager to the Stars
pankkake: (backups in the general sense, not losing bitcoins due to lack of backups)
benkay: whether 'all' is 9 bucks like in herbi's case, or everything everything in yours...
mircea_popescu: Duffer1 benkay it was illustrated recently by herbi. the only restraint is that people's ability to be all imperial and handwave reality be overrun
deanclkclk: well..I started the project from December but, I've been mostly on #bitcoin, #bitcoin-dev and #litcoin
benkay: losing it all is a part of the learning process
Duffer1: you're not wrong benkay, call me a hopeless optimist though, some may learn before they lose it all instead of after
mircea_popescu: which is why you want to do that early and then lurk here
benkay: Duffer1: just like people who'd benefit from BingoBoingo's advice on how not to fail in bitcoin are too wrapped up in their silicon valley bullshit to listen to him.
ThickAsThieves: then youll understand why it matters at all
ThickAsThieves: lear about the WoT
benkay: Duffer1: just like people who need to read "so you want to start a bitcoin business" can't get over their egos and get it.
mircea_popescu: what im the only 1 ?
mircea_popescu: the news at 5, a string of mistakes that eventually annul each other if long enough.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Apocalyptic!~Apocalypt@unaffiliated/apocalyptic. Trust relationship from user pankkake to user Apocalyptic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=pankkake&dest=Apocalyptic | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Apocalyptic | Rated since: Mon Jul 15 09:32:50 2013
benkay: you also need to read the thing you were linked way back up miles above
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user deanclkclk to user deanclkclk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=deanclkclk&dest=deanclkclk | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=deanclkclk | Rated since: never
Namworld: With that, I'm gone. Got to meet with the family.
deanclkclk: most of the problem with exchanges are tech experience
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user deanclkclk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=deanclkclk | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=deanclkclk | Rated since: never
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Apocalyptic!~Apocalypt@unaffiliated/apocalyptic. Trust relationship from user ThickAsThieves to user Apocalyptic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ThickAsThieves&dest=Apocalyptic | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Apocalyptic | Rated since: Mon Jul 15 09:32:50 2013
Duffer1: people want trust (web of trust), people want competence (any experience in finance or handling other's significant amounts of money?)
Namworld: I just wanted to go through all the details of why no one here is interested.
mircea_popescu: and Namworld comes to the same conclusion everyone else did, but after putting more effort and time into it.
pankkake: well Apocalyptic doesn't know how to configure a mail server so I'm still waiting for the activation mail
Namworld: You've just proposed x then y then z upon seeing the first things were already there so wouldn't work. If you couldn't figure it out, you're not fit to handle customer Bitcoins. Because when first thing will work, there won't be other things to try.
mircea_popescu: deanclkclk dude srsly, nobody is using the thing of an unknown. you were here in channel when this happened, openx just lost all its business because Apocalyptic.
deanclkclk: what would get you then?
ThickAsThieves: i dont quite understand the OpenEx withdrawal process, but we'll see...
Namworld: What about them? What do you want to do?
pankkake: there are fees for bank transfers?
deanclkclk: and the fees doesn't matter to you guys right?
deanclkclk: that's the preferred way I guess
Namworld: The registered ones are not typically insured.
Namworld: There's already BTC-e to not be tracked. They don't require any verification as far as I know.
mircea_popescu: deanclkclk so make a perpetuum mobile then, why you wasting your time with this crap.
mircea_popescu: how come every day there's some doofus who does nothing but parts and joins ;/
Duffer1: theft insurance
mircea_popescu: i think most people go into the press trying to make a job out of it.
Duffer1: the Haters Club, now with Bitcoin
Namworld: Others are just watching for info/news.
Namworld: Some in here are traders I suppose. Other are business owners.
deanclkclk: so if you are not traders or programmers...what the fuck is that profession?
mircea_popescu: we are the secret iluminati club of bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves at the rate we're going we soon might. you know the joke with the cadet and his horse?
Duffer1: it's highlighted in yellow in the order book and all open positions are visible below the order book, scroll down
pankkake: all of them
deanclkclk: can you cancel a trade that's partially filled on these exchanges?
mircea_popescu: funny thing is, the r3wt guy will never know what exactly he missed by not being part of things.
BingoBoingo: Sure, will take a few hours to move out. That's usually the lag on withdrawals.
pankkake: the current slowness of ATC blocks will make arbitrage annoying
ozbot: Order (exchange) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Namworld: You already get the best ask/bid.
Namworld: You CAN select to buy 100 dollar of BTC. The exchange already finds the lowest asks and gets as much BTC as possible.
deanclkclk: well that's not my experience with other exchanges folks...sorry
Namworld: You don't spend that $5 because there is a ask lower than 100 per BTC at 95.
deanclkclk: so what happens with the $5 dollars
Jere_Jones: You plan on doing this *on* the blockchain?
pankkake: if I put 100 for 1 BTC and there is an ask at 95, I'm already getting that bitcoin at 95
Namworld: How do you find such lower ask/higher bid so buyer/seller gets more? All bids/asks are all already there when someone place an order.
pankkake: it's not. they banned you?
pankkake: well then perhaps I'll understand your proposal
deanclkclk: by the bare minimum...the traders would get what they ask for....X dollars for the seller and X BTC for the buyer
mircea_popescu: sells specified in dollars, buys in bitcoin for the btc/usd pair ?
pankkake: you'd have to know the future indeed
deanclkclk: so if I put this bid and the price sinks...I'm would be a happy camper
deanclkclk: guy..do you know how market works...prices change on the fly
mircea_popescu: each transfer yields more coins i nthe recipient address than were sent
mircea_popescu: maybe there could be a coin dedicated to this concept.
pankkake: but if you want more, just ask for more. your ask might not get fully filled, so? that was the price you wanted
deanclkclk: the bid...might get more say BTC
mircea_popescu: the recipient should get X+k dollars ?
deanclkclk: people want to get what they ask for? that doesn't make any business sense
mircea_popescu: the only programmer here is benkay and we only keep him around cause his gf.
mircea_popescu: deanclkclk because people generally want to get what they want to get.
benkay: furthermore, the problem you're trying to solve is not actually a problem. it's a flaw in your perceptions of trading.
deanclkclk: why wouldn't anyone want to get more BTC if the purpose of the site is to find the least ask trade
benkay: deanclkclk: you're unfortunately trading on exchanges run by derpy web developers that don't match orders like professionals, and so you come to the conclusion that order matching is a) a hard problem and b) something you're qualified to handle.
deanclkclk: basically I just get the quantity I ask for
mircea_popescu: deanclkclk don't take it personally. i have no particular interest in the matter.
Duffer1: other's fortunes
Duffer1: you clearly don't understand enough of what's involved to be put yourself in a position of responsibility for other's money
deanclkclk: how am I loosing people's money when I said ..the objective is for folks to get more
deanclkclk: what's the main one?
Duffer1: when you lose everyone's money for them it will hurt more than when you lose everyone's memecoin
mircea_popescu: well there are many fundamental points you're unable to consider.
mircea_popescu: deanclkclk you may not like to hear this, but nevertheless it's a fact : you're really not able to do this. for your own sake do it for something light, like a play crypto.
benkay: HE'S INVENTED THE ORDER BOOK
deanclkclk: the algorithm goes through the list and find the best price for both buyer and seller Duffer1
deanclkclk: and in some cases..they can get more dollars ..as in the case of the trader and more btc in the case of the buyer
deanclkclk: buyer wants more ..seller wants less...the trading will be automated where we try to get the best price for both buyer and seller
mircea_popescu: it's not something to be started to fill an idle hour in the afternoon, like wittling.
deanclkclk: but, what's WOT by the way?
mircea_popescu: exchanges currently seem to have a lot of problems, but if you trust any one you are best served by asking them what they can process
deanclkclk: are there any alternatives to okpay which accepts fiat on behalf of exchanges?
asciilifeform: everyone likes to imagine that there lives a hero.
asciilifeform: not terribly actively in recent times, got, well, other things on me plate.
mircea_popescu: gedankenexperiment : you are the usg.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me ask you this : are you gathering lots of information about the early days of bitcoin by extensively watching the altcoin chain, tracking txns etc ?
mircea_popescu: who knows these things.
benkay: not moving to argentina, i gather.
mircea_popescu: i was going to go "oh, the blessings of romanian living, i just drained a bottle of tuica out of my barrel in the cellar now i have nicely cold tuica", but i guess i should pass.
mircea_popescu: wow. ok nm then!
benkay: it's a low-rez jpeg and they're small!
mjr_: mircea_popescu: i thought the fee was 10 bitcoins for VIP, not that I am complaining, I just haven't looked in a while
mircea_popescu: benkay you know i have the exact bowl ?
benkay: the tikooni
ozbot: Bet on: Ethereum talk > 10.000 views on YouTube
pankkake: https://fairlay.com/bet/registered/new/ethereum-talk-10-000-views-on-youtube/ how can this be approved :/
benkay: although if you foot the bill for travel to romania you can have a go at talking her into your dungeon.
mircea_popescu: speaking of lays : benkay take the girls pic, post it, have her come by i'll give her a bitcoin so she can build her independent wealth.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform keeps giving us these immortality pills, we'll be here forever.
mircea_popescu: francis_wolke you'll ahve to put that in the form of a question.
mircea_popescu: the only difference being that in the 2000s humanity is fed by technology, whereas in 1900 it was fed by politics, which meant, of course, deploying the force of arms to acquire wealth.
mircea_popescu: ie, could we say the same things we say of our current fashion (ie, large scale tech project) about yesteryear's fashion ?
mircea_popescu: now, can we transpose the manhattan argument in terms of novemberverbrecher argument ?
francis_wolke: mircea_popescu: I read the logs. My wifi died.
mircea_popescu: Dolchstoßlegende is the notion, widely believed in right-wing circles in Germany after 1918, that the German Army did not lose World War I but was instead betrayed by the civilians on the home front, especially the republicans who overthrew the monarchy. Advocates denounced the German government leaders who signed the Armistice on November 11, 1918, as the "November Criminals" (German: Novemberverbrecher).
ozbot: The conference, second edition pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: mjr_ the conference you mea n?
mircea_popescu: "Even if the initial miners in the "Satoshi Gang" were not initially part of the USG - they would be hunted down and forced to turn over their Bitcoin at gunpoint." oh for the love of christ.
mircea_popescu: "it's disposal" that's not how you spell the possesive.
mjr_: went public on the pink sheets...as i was recommending bitcoin companies do a year ago
benkay: you could've jumped straight to the mockery!
benkay: if you'd read the gist it woulda saved so much time mircea_popescu
benkay: i think the ltcmgmt is great!