mircea_popescu: dexX7 perhaps. though the rota project as originally designed proved unworkable. it'd have to be worked on.
nubbins`: ah, the rota
dexX7: mpex as sro.. would this also imply things like the rota project? http://trilema.com/2012/the-mpex-rota/
bounce: the name popped up in a wonkblog piece I googled just now; could well be the one I read earlier. name didn't stick, but he got done for insider trading.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily i wouldn't want to be in any board where the ceo goes "well icahn just offered me 50mn, what you guys got"
ReutersEmily: mircea_popescu you're right it also does affect the stability of a company's stock price theoretically when you have insider activity
mircea_popescu: Namworld this is exactly the equivalent of "why regulate psychoactives" debate. because if you can you must, and if it's legal to do amphetamines companies will start mandating their employees do it.
Namworld: Information on the market is assymetric everywhere else, almost. I don't see why force it for securities.
ReutersEmily: i guess, without offering too much of an opinion since I am a journalist and not supposed to have any, i would add that the markets aren't fair anyway
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well the better opposite view is that it's really not against the people working at companies' interest to allow that "hard work" to fruit, as opposed to the interest of the actual companies.
nubbins`: as an investor, i'd be pretty sore if an officer of the company in which i invested started telling his buddies when to sell
BingoBoingo: I rather hope the SEC decides to be friends http://bitbet.us/bet/790/mpex-to-become-sec-recognized-sro-in-2014/?ref=17sTosfHxNzGD4VUP3pjoHCEVofzSEcL95
ReutersEmily: i guess the people who think insider trading shouldn't be illegal argue that if you can work hard for the advantage--ie get contacts inside a company to leak you stuff or whatever, you deserve the competitive advantage?
mircea_popescu: Namworld but you were about 2k at the top right ?
bounce: forgot who wrote the piece I remember reading, quick google tells me john carney and dylan matthews said things to that tune not too long ago
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily the real reason you want a client is that you can then install otr, which is a cryptographically secure plugin allowing you to have private conversations safe from any snoops. and that is good quality safety, not the sort of crud normally peddled.
BingoBoingo: ReutersEmily: Right. This channel has a log linked in the topic, but for other channels and conversations you depend on your client to keep logs for you
nubbins`: thestringpuller: great for when you want your computer to freeze when opening an email
Namworld: [10:19] <mircea_popescu> thestringpuller namworld did it.
nubbins`: thestringpuller: last office i worked in used lotus notes ;D
ReutersEmily: yeah i'm using the webchat right now
nubbins`: ReutersEmily: most of us use dedicated software to connect to irc, rather than a website like you're using
mircea_popescu: pick from there.
gribble: The Top 7 Best Free IRC Clients for Windows 7 - MakeUseOf: <http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/top-7-free-irc-clients-windows-7/>; Good IRC Clients? : windows - Reddit: <http://www.reddit.com/r/windows/comments/1eezw4/good_irc_clients/>; XChat: Multiplatform Chat Program: <http://xchat.org/>
ReutersEmily: uh...they just upgraded our computers here at work to windows whatever - 7?
dexX7: look at the hostmask
Namworld: Software to access IRC channels. I suppose you're using the webchat?
mircea_popescu: there was some unfortunate guy that took out a bond in btc and paid it out early on
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller namworld did it.
thestringpuller: is ThickAsThieves the only person to issue a bond and not fuck over people?
Namworld: He doesn't speak much at all usually. I doubt he'll talk to the press when he refuses to say anything to anyone.
thestringpuller: did the Ukyo loan default
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily one of the better things you can do is get an irc client and set it up. thgat way you have your own logs, highlights, tab completes etc
BingoBoingo: And that thing might be related to the Cyprus thing, kinds
LordPutin: dont forget ukyo the bitfunder scam artists
ozbot: Twitter / FlitterOnFraud: @mircea_popescu I wonder whether ...
mircea_popescu: https://twitter.com/FlitterOnFraud/status/447013452226113536 so there ye go, naysayers.
nubbins`: no cherry blossoms here, but there was a man looking confusedly back and forth between my house, the house next door, and the key in his hand
mircea_popescu: when i originally picked a date for the secret conference, it was mostly tied to when this particular walkway of cherries would likely be in bloom.
mircea_popescu: this shall henceforth be known as the mp curse, too.
mircea_popescu: Namworld it has been for a week. all the cherry trees are pink
mircea_popescu: wow this is the prettiest spring outside
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Honestly by 2015 I imagine this will be the norm
ReutersEmily: oh didn't see your handle till after i tweeted hold on i'll do another one
Namworld: No need. What I mean is, someone comes in here and ask questions, they'll probably get an answer, wether from the press or just a random stranger. Who the person actually is doesn't matter.
khersonus: Namworld: I felt the need to ask, so I asked. Does it matter that I asked?
mircea_popescu: nah im pretty sure it's the genuine article.
Namworld: khersonus, there was no proof provided that whoever is asking question is from Reuters. Someone joined and asked questions. People are answering. It could be left at that. Does it matter how or why someone arrived here?
ReutersEmily: khersonus I wanted to talk to mircea_popescu about the SEC letter
khersonus: normally I just read the logs, but this was worth hopping on for
BingoBoingo: ReutersEmily: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The first one was done, maybe an hour ago http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/03/21/the-problem-of-finding-bitcoin/
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it seems just by the time you're done with your post you can start on another eh.
mircea_popescu: (this software works so that if anyone is mentioned - or has any strings of interest mentioned - they get a signal)
mircea_popescu: if you hang around maybe topace sees the highlights.
LordPutin: i called them once and Dave from fbi answered
mircea_popescu: i hear the sichuan duck is good.
mircea_popescu: until the securities and exchange comission of panama figures out how to work with me, i guess this shitshow'll continue.
ReutersEmily: well they have numbers you can call for help or whatever
mircea_popescu: i buy that just about as much as any other flying pigs scenario.
mircea_popescu: a guy by the name topace used to, and claims he is no longer because some offshore corp bought it.
mircea_popescu: but this is what passes for "pr" these days, at least at the havelock level of things.
mircea_popescu: obviously this is not what one would read, be that one reasonable or otherwise, and obviously this point is not lost on them.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily anyway, if you're positive-constructively inclined, they probably mean "with none of the risk holding your own btc entails, such as you not having a clue and deleting the wallet"
ReutersEmily: what about the fact that neobee is collectuing euros promising customers exposure to btc "with none of the risk?"
mircea_popescu: among others.
mircea_popescu: resulting in a good 4k btc loss for their "investors".
mircea_popescu: c) that havelock has a history of allowing high rent corporations to just walk away from their obligations, such as they did in the case of virtex,
mircea_popescu: a) that while neobee collected funds (on havelock), they have yet to issue a report. this is eerily reminescent of the bitcoin foundation scam, and does not bode well
mircea_popescu: nothing too highly. to keep this short and sweet, the objections are :
ReutersEmily: yeah what do you think of them?
mircea_popescu: the neobee people bought a lot of newspaper space recently, that hat you mean ?
ReutersEmily: because i want to know what you think about some of the new businesses popping up there
ReutersEmily: what about specifically in the btc space?
mircea_popescu: well their govt collapsed and it seems messy
ReutersEmily: what is going on there, in your opinion?
mircea_popescu: just as long as they understand what's going on.
mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 well i imagine she wants to come as press rather than vip
ozbot: The conference, second edition pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
ReutersEmily: think it was a guy who couldn't run an exchange or an outside theft?
Namworld: On Bitcointalk forum. She tends to be very accurate, yet most often dismissed. In the end, she is usually proven right, sadly for those who didn't heed her warnings.
mircea_popescu: rather than six montrhs after, like your run of the mill overworked, overwhelmed, sclerotic bureaucracy.
mircea_popescu: and if the sec was at my april 2013 conference, they could have known about mtgox nine months in advance,
mircea_popescu: we could have together avoided a shitton of loss and misery.
mircea_popescu: now, if the sec had actually had a gpgkey registered with me in april 2012,
ReutersEmily: so...perhaps you don't want to discuss it here but i would love to know what you think of the new cyprus-based 'bank'
mircea_popescu: and a lot of numerous other cases.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily anyway, some highlights include calling out the pirate scam in april 2012, at a time everyone thought they knew better,
mircea_popescu: there you go.
gribble: View the profile of MPOE-PR - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=52741>; Latest posts of: MPOE-PR - Bitcoin Forum: <https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=52741;sa=showPosts>; MPOE-PR, almost two years in the swamp. An anthology. pe Trilema ...: <http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-pr-almost-two-years-in-the-swamp-an-anthology/>
Namworld: MPEx at its core was made to be simple, secure and without any extras. Designed to be a true exchange. Other places so far dealing with Bitcoin securities have both the issuing and official trades of share, and the web interface. It makes them vulnerable to hacking and meddling with the list of holders.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily not other than the limits of how many shares there exist in that company.
ReutersEmily: but when you say there are people who are trying to prevent bad behavior, how do they do that?
ReutersEmily: so that would be similar to the SEC's reporting requirements for public companies
mircea_popescu: tho i tell them to. but what's in a telling ?
mircea_popescu: there's a lengthy list, and all this is strictly a mpex thing, nobody else does it.
ozbot: Accounting for the nonzero asset corporation. The MPEx standard. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Pope
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/accounting-for-the-nonzero-asset-corporation-the-mpex-standard/
mircea_popescu: and help with the process of limiting those.
mircea_popescu: what mpex does is for fiat institutions to recognise there are people who understand how things work and are currently working to prevent such corner cases and bad behaviour
Namworld: One can buy a registration with MPEx and then actually provide the brokering service, complete with actual web interface. Such as what coinbr.com did.
ReutersEmily: so do you think exchanges like MPEx will eventually need regulation the way NYSE needs it - to prevent corners and other bad behavior?
Namworld: The fact it works like it is makes communications for trades and information very secure, using strong encryption. It works like one would make orders digitally with an actual stock exchange. Low fees per trade too. But high entry fee and no interface.
ReutersEmily: I can understand how you could verify BTC holdings but not quite how you could verify the share holdings
ReutersEmily: like, i can see how you would be able to verify the btc holdings
ReutersEmily: and how do you verify the share holdings of an individual seller?
mircea_popescu: again quite exactly as the nyse works.
mircea_popescu: and then whenever someone orders a crossing sell or buy, the trade is executed and reported to the parties.
ReutersEmily: like, if someone wants to sell something, MPEx is the buyer, and then MPEx turns around and finds a buyer?
ReutersEmily: Thanks. And the way you just described the public key crypto, in trading terms, it sounds like MPEx is the counterparty to all trades?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily the advantage of being here. i gain about 15 iq points when surrounded by these folks.
ozbot: The many ways available for talking to MPEx pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/the-many-ways-available-for-talking-to-mpex/ that part is detailed here
mircea_popescu: and in fact you can actually put orders in mpex right from here, by talking to the bots.
Apocalyptic: anyway I contacted that guy just for the lulz, if he was willing to pay for such a platform
mircea_popescu: if you have the 17×119×5×3 set (ie, the private key) you can do some things which someone only having the 30345 (ie, the public key) can not do.
mircea_popescu: now it turns out you can use this disparity for great mathematical accomplishments, in the sense that
pizzaman1337: (not off the top of our heads)
mircea_popescu: ok. can you tell me the prime factors of 30345 ?
mircea_popescu: ok. so let's first look into prime factors. the prime factors of 12 are 2,2,3,3
BingoBoingo: A bit related to the fact this conversation is happening at all http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/03/21/the-problem-of-finding-bitcoin/
mircea_popescu: pizzaman1337 well there's this dastardly ambiguity in working for mp/working for mpex.
mircea_popescu: that is easily over a billion dollars in today's market, but at the time btc was valued a lot lower
pizzaman1337: in the feb report the expenditure was 8.262335 BTC, how does that cover a hundred people?
ReutersEmily: and how many individuals do you think suffered when those other sites blew up?
mircea_popescu: which at the time worked out to well over half a billion.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily it varies wildly. currently in the 20-30k btc range. during one month it handled 400k btc in notional options exposure
ReutersEmily: What is the volume of trading on MPEx?
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily about a dozen, it varies. they review public communications, keep track on the status of various purported btc companies, make regular statements etc.
ReutersEmily: how many people in your scam-outing dept and what do they do?
mircea_popescu: people booking the traditional 50% losses in half year.
mircea_popescu: no, the ones besides havelock are dead.
ReutersEmily: are the rest of those (besides havelock) NYSE-type exchanges as well?
mircea_popescu: there has been a lengthy list of wannabe-mpex websites to date, it all ended bloody.
mircea_popescu: best anyone can determine, the sec is merely trying to cope with the serious problems of fraud enabled by unscrupulous operators
ReutersEmily: like, some other sites that deal in bitcoin have tried to stay out of range of US regulators by not letting people with US IP addresses log on
ReutersEmily: I'm just trying to figure out how the SEC would argue it has jurisdiction
mircea_popescu: there are websites that purport to do this for you, if you can trust them. canonically bitcoin is obtained by mining it.
mircea_popescu: no, i am saying their debate as to whethet to come out and say its not in their yeard or not ended up in fishtails last tiem they tried to come to a declaration.
ReutersEmily: You were saying the SEC already discussed whether they could have jurisdiction over bitcoin exchanges?
mircea_popescu: you may want to pick up the glove she failed to identify.
mircea_popescu: so then good.
ReutersEmily: yeah it is really cool from my perspective (i cover SEC enforcement, etc) to get to see how they operate like that
ReutersEmily: that is unusual, to say the least
ReutersEmily: So I see you posted the SEC letter on your site
ReutersEmily: like, what are the disqualifiers?
mircea_popescu: if you just let anyone randomly registering you end up with the pink sheets, basically.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily well, again just like the nyse. you have to satisfy a due dilligence process.
mircea_popescu: s.nsa is a fine example of one company that succeeded. the owner there came up with the idea of making an actually cryptographically secure gpg gizmo
ReutersEmily: as in - some make it through your registration process and others don't? or can anyone register, and then it's just sink or swim, it's a matter of whether they can attract funds?
mircea_popescu: people try all the time, some succeed, some don;t.
mircea_popescu: it aspires to be the same.
ReutersEmily: so Havelock is the same, right?
mircea_popescu: you put your orders in, it executes them.
mircea_popescu: ReutersEmily mpex works exactly like the nyse, if nyse worked as intended.
mircea_popescu: don't worry about the etiquette, it fell off.
mircea_popescu: who knew, mpex is 50% better than the best investment in the history of venture investment.
ReutersEmily: I am completely unfamiliar with the etiquette in here
mircea_popescu: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjMajHFCUAAaocD.jpg < this explains who gets hurt if the us keeps on yakking.
nubbins`: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/19/science/flies-that-do-calculus-with-their-wings.html?hpw&rref=science
nubbins`: and btc, the opposite
nubbins`: with the caveat that tits are better squeezed now than later
mircea_popescu: bitcoin's made for spendin' like them tits are made for squeezin'. not all the time not by everyone.
mircea_popescu: i would say moore's law officially solved the problem of slashdotting, permanently.
Namworld: The finest counterfeit Picasso's alongside $1 store paintings?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Roughly when did you start lawyering up and working on the MPEx/MPOE legal contingencies?
nubbins`: TBF i was buying btc and pushing them into SR as fast as i could, and pascale said "maybe we should sit on a few k's"
nubbins`: avg price for the ones i still have was around $22
nubbins`: i spent most of the early ones
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i like bothering people with that figure :D i imagine all the assholes buying 10k for a pizza are long gone so nobody can bother me.
nubbins`: really making the rounds this time
Namworld: Well the official details are entertaining.
Namworld: Gox has now 202k BTC, officially. They also officially don't know how much they have at all.
mircea_popescu: unless it's a naked karpeles dancing in the streets of tokio for nickels i ain't interested.
mircea_popescu: lol @the notion of gox still publishing pdfs
mircea_popescu: benkay: at 12, there was a man ranting in ##econometrics about mortgaging himself to the hilt and going long btc. <<< this has long been the practical bank killer.
Namworld: Have you seen the latest gox?
Namworld: But they want me to code an exchange regardless.
mircea_popescu: no but usa != the people living at any given time in the areal. just like cccp != the poor russian and other nationalities engulag'd.
BingoBoingo: This was especially true at the peak of McCarthyism, since Johnson though there's gradually been a little less denial though every generation.
mircea_popescu: the chief difference between the usa and the cccp being that the usa is in denial about building socialism.
BingoBoingo: They always kind of were.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell benkay http://trilema.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/#comment-98630 hapoy now ? :D
kakobrekla: did he check under the couch cushions?
Neil: Missing huobi; the one with highest vol.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Izzy_: don't want to clog the forum w/ my tech support needs
benkay: are the assettes being helpful with building?
benkay: oh lord does os x not ship with gpg these days?
benkay: Izzy_: the terminal?
chetty: benkay: I haven't time for scfi reading much in a while, anyway real life seems to have caught up, the newspaper is mostly scifi
benkay: ha i was sticking something in the fridge, BingoBoingo.
gribble: PGP/GPG Guide | Bingo Blog: <http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/pgpgpg-guide/>; Signature Thursday: Geany a GUI text editor for GPG tasks | Bingo ...: <http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/31/signature-thursday-geany-a-gui-text-editor-for-gpg-tasks/>; October | 2013 | Bingo Blog: <http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2013/10/>
BingoBoingo: ;;google the drinking record GPG guide
cazalla: i could've had hundreds instead of the plebeian amount i now own
benkay: or man gpg, rather.
benkay: type gpg -k at the console
cazalla: the rush is that i only appreciate now what i wish i appcreciated 2 years ago
benkay: eh what's the rush.
benkay: now might not be a bad time to do the same thing.
cazalla: i'm not knocking off the old man
benkay: at 12, there was a man ranting in ##econometrics about mortgaging himself to the hilt and going long btc.
benkay: what do you plan to do with the hoard?
benkay: and the gig is planned for 1.25 months from now.
cazalla: he's kind enough to give my brother and I a windfall
benkay: oh, I see. you're going to off your father.
benkay: cazalla: how does the inheritance play?
benkay: chetty: i'm reading a splendid little space opera set across the solar system. war between mars and the belt, with big rocks waiting in the wings to get tipped down the well.
cazalla: i need it to stay down for another 5 weeks :\
Izzy_: @mircea_popescu g'night - thx for the contact w/ your scottish friend
chetty: the phrase reminds me of 'social justice'
mircea_popescu: well then i can go to bed
mircea_popescu: no man that can't be bothered to fuck the woman cares if she goes astray, srsly nao.
cazalla: given they are xenophobic beyond what i could ever be, i expect them to put up a little more resistance to cultural enrichment than the west has to date
mircea_popescu: if they didn't bother to grab the soap so far, why'd they muddle with the rope henceforth ?
Izzy_: so now they have a cryptocurrency?
mircea_popescu: then people complain about condomacare.
benkay: "leverage". the word i was looking for a few minutes ago. "leverage".