asciilifeform: not in eulora either ? also asciilzied ?
asciilifeform: possibly, i'ma have to rewalk the pertinent l0gz when i get a chance
phf: asciilifeform: i think the divergent points were a lot more elaborate than this particular reduction
asciilifeform: phf: recall, this is why asciilifeform earlier wanted a non-linecentric diff representation. then would not need special cases for clean ascii & bins.
phf: i have couple of hours tomorrow, so i'll pick up the deletions and renames code either way, and either release it, or give an estimate for how long it will take me to bake it
phf: there are three distinct options: deletions and renames (which is handled by mp algo), creations (that can be handled by e.g. <size><content in hex>) and diffing (which is top complexity, needing e.g. needleman-wunsch)
asciilifeform: also while mircea_popescu is awake : if you have the dest # for the 1-800 thing, plox to gpggram, i'ma bake it ( theoretically oughta be live in day or 2 from revv-up )
asciilifeform: ( if only deletions, than the file renameage thing will suffice )
phf: asciilifeform: i don't have binary diffing even in prototype form, if you could adaize your needleman-wunsch i could add it to vtools, the way i did with diana_coman's keccak
asciilifeform: phf: if you already have the coad for this, let's have it; otherwise i have a cl needleman-wunsch routine that i will adaize.
phf: asciilifeform: because binary we've been going back and forth on over many conversations over the past year. e.g. mp-wp was rewritten to not use binaries because around the time the resolution was to not pack binaries into vpatches and instead move in the direction of human readable formats
asciilifeform: how is it that i'm the first to notice this hole.
asciilifeform: phf: do ya think you can post the binaries-eating version soon-ish ? i'd like to regrind FG, for example.
phf: mircea_popescu: i understand, it's the height of idiocy on my part
mircea_popescu: phf i am very not happy with the situation.
asciilifeform: phf: if binariola handler is added carefully, then yes, should not break existing patches
phf: format breaks only in a sense that gnu patch won't press it. current vpatches that don't delete/rename (since the feature is not there) will never the less work with any future changes to vtools
asciilifeform: then diana_coman & mircea_popescu say 'wtf your waiting for' so thought 'so it's done...'
asciilifeform: 1 of the 2 whys
mircea_popescu: motherfucker...
asciilifeform: this is why i was not hurrying to regrind, thought (turns out correctly) that the new vdiff ain't 100% yet
mircea_popescu: phf what the fuck are you doing to me!
phf: asciilifeform is right, i dropped the ball on it. i prototyped it right after we had a conversation, and then i had the four months of fiat work, and i forgot that it was on my plate.
asciilifeform: i am testing the version given in http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-keccak-regrind/ .
asciilifeform: and i do recall that mircea_popescu specced this feature. but seems like it aint there yet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly enuff, i was right in re the current phf-vdiff . observe : a) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5ZYgF/?raw=true << example of deleting a text file. in fact uses same deletion representation as ordinary gnudiff, where entire payload is quoted. b) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vl2Ca/?raw=true << attempt to represent deletion of 1MB from FG. result : same as in oldschool gnudiff.
asciilifeform: hm did it throw out the 'deletions must be reversible' thing ? now i gotta try it..
mircea_popescu: we discussed this extensively, before phf even started. new vtools is perfectly capable of describing the deletion/movement/etc of ~any files~.
asciilifeform: recall the 'fg schematics' pain thread.
mircea_popescu: the whole fucking point of the entire new v was to be able to represent deletion of files.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, asciilifeform's pet volunteered a similar/popular engl example, 'the hookers hitler and stalin walked into the room'
asciilifeform: ( my primary objection to a hypothetical hybrid, is that i often do work on boxes with no nic, and imho builder must not rely on connectivity )
trinque: sure, vtron presses the ports tree, gprbuild builds
asciilifeform: even from existing gnu liquishit, it is fairly easy, turns out, to remove ( e.g. as i did with the mpi that diana_coman made into the 1st half of eucrypt )
asciilifeform: ( i have said before, would like to see the autoconf atrocity properly disappear into an unmarked grave )
asciilifeform: trinque: i also have visions of integration with gossipd, where the thing, given a wot key, will know how to ask owner for $source item. but this is yet a bridge too far.
trinque: just a bridge off the infected island
trinque: also questionable whether there's such thing as a republican portage, or whether it all ought to be trashed for something gprbuild-based and with far less optionality.
trinque: what I'm doing is replacing the "rsync ebuilds from server" mechanism
trinque: some other hero, can
trinque: I do not intend to boil the ocean by replacing portage
asciilifeform: trinque: was contemplating vtronic mechanism here, rather than 'cute' rename of the old emerge
trinque: the thing's far too wrapped in on itself yet
asciilifeform: ( i do not know if trinque is going with the old gentoo-flavoured terminology, but expect that process will be roughly similar )
diana_coman: in that case the "starter" is using cuntoo, sure
asciilifeform: imho ideal case is when cuntoo is mature and errybody's expected to be on it, then the q resolves itself.
asciilifeform: but even if not changes, but minor refinements, e.g. the graph plotter -- n00bs will end up with old vtron, and then gotta press a newer
diana_coman: my understanding was that the starter would be just that, fixed minimal thing to get started, I don't see the need to change it and/or keep in sync
diana_coman: the part I don't get is: what does "pressed manually with gnupatch" earn you vs "manually verify sig on this archive here"? (I assume the archive won't be 100MB of shit, ofc)
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect idea was 'make him manually gpg --verify ... and then press by hand-gnupatch a la pre-v trb, better than signed tar'. but i'ma let phf clarify.
diana_coman: well, if it's "give" then it will have to be signed tar as far as I can tell, I still don't see why one would basically import gnu patch just in order to "give n00b" anything; the options are always either "take what exists i.e. on trust " (in which case archive) or "go and make your own" in which case what's the problem
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 16:40 phf: apropos i want to move vtools to keccak, but i'm not sure what's the best way to solve bootstrapping problem. a signed tar archive of a press that can be used to bootstrap or manual press instructions using gnu patch?
asciilifeform: ... or, in same vein, the thing i ended up having to do in http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=fg case
asciilifeform: ( either its deletion, or its insertion -- therefore impossible to encode the contents of that tar, as a genesis )
asciilifeform: tangentially on-thread, it still bothers asciilifeform that he was unable to represent the diff b/w mircea_popescu's bitcoin-0.5.3.tar.gz and the genesis as a vpatch ( neither orig v nor current is able to represent the deletion of binariolade... )
mircea_popescu: what's not physically impossible is that his code would greatly benefit from another read by an alf infuriated by the chore. but anyways!
asciilifeform: even setting aside 'if phf made mistake', it is not physically impossible for bit to flip on his hdd at the moment of signing regrind.
asciilifeform: reread is great, but it is important for the work to actually be ~cumulative~
mircea_popescu: maybe the sadness of re-read forces you to fix some!
asciilifeform: this worx great for theorems, algos, but not so much for MB of coad soup
mircea_popescu: alf did not go to school of scholarly beauty, "oh, that is the best one you've made so far, here, let me break it up for you and do it again".
asciilifeform: so from that pov , if it is possible to inexpensively avoid the situation, it is a win.
mircea_popescu: which is why the joib of research scientist and science educator diverges : you teach people by permitting them to get themselves caught. women, too.
mircea_popescu: i frankly don't see much problem with it either way ; but i will say that your lie-detectors suffer from a certain naivite, whereby they're tuned to catch reality lying (ie, something that has no reflexivity, will lie regardless of your apparatus). this is not so useful with people.
mircea_popescu: right. then it follows, "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?". is your retort here what i imaginarily quoted, "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
mircea_popescu: "yes mp, but best used other places, it's still expensive" "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?" "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
asciilifeform: simple : that if i find that it doesn't work quite same as previous, i nao have to consider hypothesis that phf made a mistake.
mircea_popescu: i could see the direct "well -- i had read his old one ; dun wanna re-read the new one, if it's same." but... i thought re-reading was one of our values ?
mircea_popescu: kinda the "what exactly" delineation is the point of this discussion. obv the actual case is relatively unimportant.
asciilifeform: phf can, of course, release anyffing he likes, incl. to take an old proggy and make new genesis, and say 'any relation b/w this new and that there old, is happenstance'.
mircea_popescu: this is true ; but in this case there's no continuity to be maintained. phf is the sole contributor of the entire tree.
mircea_popescu: the best definition i currently have for "State" is "collection of simple mechanisms without actual function".
mircea_popescu: if "phf signed" is ~not~ enough proof to you, then why is "phf signed" enough proof to you that his vtools doesn't come alive at night andf fuck my wife ?
mircea_popescu: (notwithstanding how the narrow construction obviously reflects your own measuring tools and naught else ?)
asciilifeform: if it is actually same, this is trivially verified. but gotta have the simple mechanism there, rather than 'go write bash script'
mircea_popescu: in the sense that you suspect he might be trustworthy in general, but a liar as to that specific narrowly construed topic ?
asciilifeform: and it will be. but good chunk of the win from v, is to avoid offloading the work of 'is this the same or not' to meat, when it can be done 100% reliably by the mechanism.
mircea_popescu: ie, that there's a relationship between "old" and "new" is a tenuous point, if by relationship is meant more than "phf wrote"
mircea_popescu: but phf, who is the author of the thing, did not in fact lose his head and arm by the process of having released the "original" ie sha version. he can just as much authorship a "new" ie, keccak version. and it'll be EXACTLY as much a genesis as that was, in ALL respects.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 2 boot sequences -- one for machines with old v ( and for dedicated historians who want whole history ) and other for the rest.
asciilifeform: but also gotta have a tar, there is no reason to force newcomers to set up ancient v prior to getting hold of the current.
mircea_popescu: can i have the boot sequence ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc phf previously had a thing that pressed with old v, to create the new. imho this is proper.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i mean, what's the boot sequence here contemplated ?
BingoBoingo: I see not reason not to go with the tar seeing how gnupatch is enemy materials
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:18 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i like the new v format, but i also very strongly wish to avoid coming to resemble the urbit people, with their 'aah we restarted the universe for the 7th time'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i gotta disagree re 'nothing starts as it', there is a history, and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851660 is a thing
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, sha is historical accident, nothing starts as it, thence no boot. therefore -- just publish it self referentially and who dun like can go to hell.
mircea_popescu: i frankly do not perceive we have a bootstrapping problem. bootstrapping occurs when you have to turn a primitive into an ulterior -- there is such a thing as a bootstrapping problem of the fetus into adulthood because all adults start as foetii.
phf: apropos i want to move vtools to keccak, but i'm not sure what's the best way to solve bootstrapping problem. a signed tar archive of a press that can be used to bootstrap or manual press instructions using gnu patch?
diana_coman: phf, I've uploaded the updated keccak .vpatches for EuCrypt, let me know if there's any trouble: http://ossasepia.com/reference-code-shelf/#selection-39.0-41.16
mircea_popescu: (the "best they could" line is, who could have ever guessed, a throwback to "il joue comme il peut, le pauvre" line in le petit baigneur. because i speak french, what! and "speak" dun mean "my hoovercraft is fulla eels", not here anyway.)
phf: every "tea party" i've ever been invited to degraded very rapidly once parents were satisfied with their cursory inspection and left us alone. at the time i was convinced it was my doing, but now i realize that the cover up is the format
mircea_popescu: and thanks fucking dog for the trilema, otherwise i'd be pretty hard pressed to make that whole 2013 point in the narrow space between two irc lines. or for that matter narrow time.
mircea_popescu: children indeed do not nor ever do play "tea party" without insistent adult intervention -- and even then not long past its cessation. but children very much do play something errily akin to what today'd pass for "bdsm" accuplation, male dominated, female receptive sorta thing.
mircea_popescu: because no, it's not such an idle question as all that -- there is a whole subset of four-five ish to maybe sixish year olds who genuinely look like they're just about to fuck but for the lack of functional organs and knowledge of function.
mircea_popescu: very much apropos, http://trilema.com/2013/so-are-they-really-about-to-fuck/
phf: hehe it's true, whatever learned through cliffsnotes, rewritten "in own words", with the originals on a bookshelf as totems of learning
mircea_popescu: i kinda like the femtard rewrite of piaget. it's something i always wanted to see in my formative years, "what if there was a monastery of mongoloids somewhere, and they hand-copied the texts '''as best they cou;d''' ?". it'd have been solid gold for the anthropologist / historian of religion, back when he still cared. but... no such thing.
mircea_popescu: ahh, this article. "Some examples [limited strictly to girls&faggots styles, because forcing the sisters to play victim in some sort of injuns&cowboys game is very much not what kids do first and foremost] of symbolic play include playing house, or having a tea party. "
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 15:02 mircea_popescu: (large portion of what informs "cultural marxism" bla bla on social media today, but that's hardly their fault.)
mircea_popescu: re-reading this log, jesus everything gets jumbled by proximity. so : http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858837 they = the tartu school ; next line entirely unrelated to this thread, going back upstack to "if mp has keys" alf complaint.
mircea_popescu: which "children learn best through play" is even true, but the catch is -- children do nothing else anyway. if they learn at all...
mircea_popescu: but possibly meaning was different -- best i can tell the idea was that receptor is incapable of decoding message for substantive lack. usually applied in school context, "class bells draw some kids to class, has no effect on others" sorta thing.
phf: if it's a human who's hearing then the stress is on the meaning, where if it's a dog the stress becomes on the location (i.e. the dog would want to seek out the source)
phf: the idea is that if you don't know the particular location from which the bells are ringing you will misinterpret their meaning
phf: i'm not sure the dog part fits
mircea_popescu had heard this befoar as "the dog hears the bells, but doesn't understand where from".
mircea_popescu: the dog ?
mircea_popescu: if anyone dares talk of "mp's influence" in a century in fucking chinese, ima personally return with all my dead friends and feed them dead dumplings.
mircea_popescu: phf "influence" in the sense of some morons that spoke neither french, nor german, nor italian. piaget was fucking swiss.
asciilifeform: whereas it is the ~hindu~ who had the moar accurate picture -- that , sure, 'errybody soul', but some 70-90% have 'soul' from cockroach with 486dx upgrade pack
mircea_popescu: "what sort of blackguard would dare propose that if you give children dildos they'd put it in playdo ?! THAT IS NOT WHERE ID EVER STICK A DILDO! THIS IS WRONGOG!!!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: imho simpler. the folx in question were labouring under ye olde christian delusion, where 'errybody got a soul'
mircea_popescu: cuz smart people keep doing this http://trilema.com/2016/why-is-that/#selection-221.55-225.273 thing, whereby http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-18#1686299 : "i, the all-important lone mind in the universe, can't summon up an image of how the universe'd go if it were took somewhere it never went before, and therefore -- any nonsense i come up with is valid!"
a111: Logged on 2017-07-18 22:58 asciilifeform: whaack is quite likely thinking of the bulk of the b00k, which consists of blockcipher liquishit which is complicated for no reason at all other than the religion where 'it is confusing to ME, author, and therefore Must Be Hard To Break'
asciilifeform: recall alan kay and his proto-ipad, 'if they get tabletron, children will learn to logic'
asciilifeform: the porcine idjicy of 'mass', was imho quite evident long ago, but 'tech' folx lived in denial.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also entertaining , to read the thoughts of the folx baking early television, '20s, 'errybody will watch great theatre!'
asciilifeform: ( radio -- welded the coffin shut )
mircea_popescu: tesla invented the car anyway, i was just making a point, ~in the structuralist style~.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, it was actually ~roll piano~ that nuked 'entertain self' music, rather than the scratchy phonograph of the time
mircea_popescu: there's nothing intrinsically black about jazz new orleans, except for the part where the black people were the only poor enough to still have to entertain themselves.
mircea_popescu: black culture used to create music at a time white culture was no longer for the same reason as the above : they were poor and retarded and didn't have music time-travel boxes.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 14:47 mircea_popescu: anyway, to put some meat on the bones of "works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only." : incorrect vintage drivers manage to literally fuck the chip, i have never seen dma errors before in teh logs, now have i seen chips refusing to turn back on and in general hardware level spew, "wrong mode d3", "error -5" etc.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, to revisit the literacy angle... "congrats on creating the music recording box, mr. tesla. the side benefit is that in a short time there won't be any musicians worth recording left, because of the competition to their craft your time travelling device produces will destroy the very economic reason for their continued existence".
mircea_popescu: well, you're reading the spew of a markov process with expectations of terminologic propriety ?!
phf: i wonder if lotman's post-structuralism is same as the french, or if it's that only in a sense that it's post. anyway, this is cool and i'm going to pick up his other shit next time i'm in moscows
mircea_popescu: but in the end -- no human invention was actually useful. just relatively useful.
mircea_popescu: this position is not without its merit. of course it also proposes literacy as the end of literature ("since they can write their shit to paper, they don't write anythingt worth remembering").
asciilifeform: imho can tie the two threads together -- when linux folx stopped giving a shit about kernel size, they went to the same hell as when the physics people ditto
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
mircea_popescu: (large portion of what informs "cultural marxism" bla bla on social media today, but that's hardly their fault.)
mircea_popescu: phf afaik the tartu school not heretical.
phf: i didn't know yuri lotman was a semiotician, back in high school i had to go to sleep with lotman literary analysis books, like those vietnam conscripts with their rifles
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik another (not as clearly delineated) change between 2.6 and >3.3, because shit "mysteriously" stops working.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun know if i have the keys to where they keep the real semiology ( if mircea_popescu says that it exists , i'll believe him ) ; as it is, i hear the word and think 'lacan' and reach for luger
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 14:33 mircea_popescu: (nobody could really appreciate all the complex flavours of the shitpie that is linux until they learn that there 's ~an automated process~ to produce "compatibility" driver bundles for "old" kernels, out of the building blocks of two kernels and a driver. now -- ask to see the design papers of that item ?)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858800 << they switched the userland abi, but 2.4 continued to live ( i've found that i still have at least 1 device in service where not only 2.4, but 2.4 that post-dates the release of 2.6 ) for many years, as it was moar compact and suitable for small iron than 2.6 ( which had better support for e.g. smp , but overall hog vs 2.4 )
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, i could see the paralel between alf's (not entirely unsuported in practice) notions of "useful physics -- turn of the century, einstein-centric" and "useless physics -- string theory" and semiology/semiotics.
mircea_popescu: anyway. 1800s tech, is the idea.
mircea_popescu: semiology, theory of signs, signifying and significance.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the situation somewhat salvaged by the happenstance that you can't be any of those under about 60 years of age or so. (with exceptions, but they're rare enough).
mircea_popescu: i almost felt like an alf for five minutes before running away screaming to the numeric method.
diana_coman: perhaps; I'm not sure though that current theorist/linguist/semiologist/gnoseologist/etc necessarily knows what they are supposed to know
mircea_popescu: anyway, to put some meat on the bones of "works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only." : incorrect vintage drivers manage to literally fuck the chip, i have never seen dma errors before in teh logs, now have i seen chips refusing to turn back on and in general hardware level spew, "wrong mode d3", "error -5" etc.
mircea_popescu: the soviet-ness of this epic wastage of resources is mindblowing.
mircea_popescu: so everyone who has any clue as to how any of this shit works and why is busy derping about "intersectional queeritude" among the DD/lg crowd of paci sucklers,
a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 22:58 mircea_popescu: mod6 he has no idea ; it's not expensive considering what the actual cost per round is. add in all the capital costs, including the fact you're wasting your time there rather than diddling the local highschool girls' volleyball team...
mircea_popescu: all the problems of computer "engineers" would be directly evident to any literary theorist / linguist / semiologist / gnoseologist / theorist of language / historian of philosophy / etcetera. except for the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1780289 problem, where they all preferred to chase the cuntherd instead of paying any attention whatsoever to the nonsense dribbling off the red stapler guys crowd.
mircea_popescu: in the end, "foss" is not any more coherent, or intellectually respectable, than christianity.
mircea_popescu: which makes the whole item self-contradictory.
diana_coman: more like they don't have a notion of "working indefinitely" or even of more than tomorrow
mircea_popescu: now, why the fuck they'd use an implicit grammar-lexicon bundle like this, i have no fucking idea. but the fact that they ~shouldn't~ (which they should not) is NOT opposable to me! since they do, i have my argument!
mircea_popescu: it's seem to me that by the semantics of the bizarro world these gnus inhabit, something working is a promise for that something to keep working. because the criteria by which they use things is "hey -- it works" ("we believe in rough consensus and working code", in in-universe terms), and therefore... everything that ever works thereby promises to keep on working indefinitely and for any possible usecase.
mircea_popescu: "but mp, you don't understand how the world works" "what is the meaning of '''new''' in the context of '''similar enough to old for this scheme to work''' "oh, it doesn't PROMISE to stay that way! this pile just works as long as it does!" "which isn't a promise ? and if it stops working, what, time for linux-backports-compat-compat, a set of scripts to update the set of scripts that updates...?" "YES!"
mircea_popescu: (nobody could really appreciate all the complex flavours of the shitpie that is linux until they learn that there 's ~an automated process~ to produce "compatibility" driver bundles for "old" kernels, out of the building blocks of two kernels and a driver. now -- ask to see the design papers of that item ?)
diana_coman: I'll soon do the regrind of eucrypt to move it on to keccak hashes; my plan is to keep the patches precisely as they are otherwise (i.e. including NO manifest until I actually added it at the end); the way I see it, it's just a swap-in-place of one hash for another; if anyone sees this sort of thing differently - since I'm hmmm,first to regrind a big project? - yell now !
mircea_popescu: now, why the fuck would chamberlain choose to only publish a dozen or so of the compat modules, i couldn't guess. but the list there is woefully incomplete, the story goes back at least to 2.4 kernels.
mircea_popescu: by the looks of it, wireless cards on laptops work with os wireless drivers from a 3 to 6 months period around their release. gotta get teh right timing.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-26 00:18 mircea_popescu: in the end, useless hp box found new life as heroes 2 playstation.
mircea_popescu: brought about by y.t. fixing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-26#1854603 through generous application of sewed out linux-wireless-compat-blabla. turns out the aeteron pci board included (mysteriously dubbed "revision 0032") works with cca 2015 vintage drivers, and them only.
phf: Mocky: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/gmsRV/?raw=true you could set these options in firefox's about:config (there's probably a way to do it through gui), they are self explanatory. the last one ensures that dns is routed through socks. the first one can be either 1 or 0. i usually just go into about:config and toggle that to 1 when i need socks (there are probably extensions, etc. etc.)
mircea_popescu: o yeah ?! WELL THE OCEAN CALLED...
mircea_popescu: of course, if the place you're in makes this necessary, it is MUCH better to set ssh on port 80 on the local machine and just proceed.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 22:25 Mocky: a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858751 << my preferred method is to `ssh -D 8080 host` which sets up a socks proxy with port 8080 on your local machine and outbound on the `host`. you can then configure e.g. firefox to send everything through that proxy
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox then to gpggram, i'ma setup when i wake
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 22:25 Mocky: a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
asciilifeform: the tunnel thing is for if you find yourself in some fascist bananistan that blocks fleanode etc
asciilifeform: 'screen' proggy is handy there.
asciilifeform: Mocky: fwiw i very rarely use tunnels as such, usually makes moar sense to simply use browser etc on the remote box via ordinary ssh
asciilifeform: Mocky: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uKGVw/?raw=true until the damn thing moves off shitazon
asciilifeform: for moar complex/auto-restarting example, see also http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000252.html article
Mocky: a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mod6: trinque: Looks like the date that your auction closes I'll be busy and not able to settle with you myself.
asciilifeform: they took it to even moar ridiculous heights in 'plan9'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: bell labs invented exactly 1 os pheature, and it became 'the hammer for all screws'
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's the 'unix philosophy' sad.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858557 -> heh; kind of why I tend to do the replies all at the end rather than as I read them though it's less convenient
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 16:40 asciilifeform: diana_coman: there really aren't so many things that legitimately call for 'streams', i have nfi what the standard authors were thinking...
BingoBoingo: And remember how as the anglotards were growing up, all their schools "focused" on teaching cross cultural literacy
mircea_popescu: recall when they "all agreed" then all didn't do, and every anglotard was surprised at this outcome, and every sinoderp was surprised at the surprise ?
BingoBoingo: The Chinese pool operators agreeing to every different course of action during the Gavinassassinen fork wars, etc
mircea_popescu: "Sadly one can't mend a tear in the space-time continuum with needle and thread, and similarily one can't repair the fundamental immorality of christianity by superficial moralizing."
BingoBoingo: Anyways, Chinese language explains Avalon's Cartman moment when they began shipping ASICs among many other things
mircea_popescu: (this was true, at the time, btw.)
a111: Logged on 2012-08-13 03:08 mircea_popescu: mtgox from what i understand is losing money, but even so they prolly have more in cash.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 17:24 mircea_popescu: cheap "cleverness" of the male virginarium aka monastery ; in same vein see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-08#1499583
a111: Logged on 2016-09-14 18:43 phf: people who can't clearly visualize a cause and effect graph trying to do science. dogen is laughing at them all the way from 13th century
mircea_popescu: whereby i protested specifically the idiotically adolescent onemanship, "oh, bla bla bla".
mircea_popescu: the cn one specifically. was discussion with phf, im trying to fish it out
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this may be ; but as far as i can see, chinese is 100% "insurance-against-future" by mass. specifically : if py yi shi ki comes to mean the bad, then it never meant that in the first place. but until it does -- it means!
mircea_popescu: consequently, i don't trust a single word they write down to mean anything in particular, exactly like "how do you know democrat is lying -- his lips are moving" and "why do you have no faith in the xtian church"
BingoBoingo: Gotta make sure you are an honored ancestor for passing down which black spice makes the rice taste better and which black spice kills the old folks as they drip spacekitten pig balls
mircea_popescu: the euros attempted a ~similar thing with http://trilema.com/2018/the-problem-with-christians/#selection-61.0-65.669 but the chinese had longer to do it.
asciilifeform: as i understand their language consists more or less wholesale of... l0g refs
asciilifeform: they achieved it from opposite end tho
mircea_popescu: the problem discussed in http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/#selection-297.0-297.795 the chinese have managed to bake ~into the language~.
asciilifeform: and, maddeningly, they seem to be aware of it, and prize it.
asciilifeform: me neither.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc the records use term 'black fragrance'. which at least later came to refer to subj.
mircea_popescu: i don't know they were doing opium.
asciilifeform: ... whereas the 'dens' that europeans ended up seeing, were fulla folx who had problem standing up, much less fuck...
asciilifeform: i suspect there's something to the 'fractional distillation' hypothesis -- there's ample record of chinese emperors, officials, & their concubines, doing opium 'to amplify fuck', which as i understand is not compatible with morphinism as it is known to modern industrial dopeheads
mircea_popescu: nor does anyone. they azns are terrible at ancient record keeping.
asciilifeform: possibly. dunno how they were used tho.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the indian balls of black spice travelled before 3k bc.
asciilifeform: prolly not quite oldest, the sublimator pipe was a 17th c invention, and preceded by tobacco
mircea_popescu: i dunno about the stupider angle. principal function of indian opium in chinese society was civilised (by their lights) old man gc.
asciilifeform: btw according to 1 source, the opium people were actually 'class-stratified' in that poorfucks smoked 'recycled' crud, containing moar morphine , and got stupider ( vs the elite, who took in 'prime' material, never heated previously )
asciilifeform: aha. there's a reason herbivores have mega-liver
mircea_popescu: there's 2 dozen in eggplant, also, and in everything else.
mircea_popescu: well yes. it's a fucking plant. that's what they do.
mircea_popescu: entirely possiobly. i never cared enough about pot to break out the thin layer cromatographs and shit.
asciilifeform: i.e. different processes give diff combos of the orig vegetable's poisons, and result in diff effect
a111: Logged on 2018-10-03 19:52 asciilifeform: ( pharmacologically also interesting : old-school opium 'smokers' ( wasn't actually smoked, it was sublimated in a device resembling today's 'crack pipe', and pretty 'high tech' procedure, look at photo of the kit some time ) -- the moar active components of the vegetable -- morphine & relateds -- didn't make it out of the pipe bowl, broke down, so theoretically the chinese were actually doing a somewhat different dope than today's j
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu : re the pot extractors -- i wonder if an effect similar to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857757 is in play
mircea_popescu: but how hard is to break the mother mula conditioning, and always put hands on your tits under the shirt, rather than always try to remove same.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> they import german stuff i've never seen outside of germany. << The one I've been using is a local product. Thoroughly composted and fluffy with ample perlite. Has a mariuana leaf on the bag even.
asciilifeform: btw i seem to recall that we had one of these, briefly
asciilifeform: ( seems to me to be a) doable b) quickly c) good , potentially , bang for the bux -- which is rare combo )
asciilifeform: i'ma dig up the reqd detail tonight.
asciilifeform: is how they avoid being raped by orc telco charge
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: 800 phone -- the only headache i foresee is that it needs good 100%-uptimed net pipe
mircea_popescu: they import german stuff i've never seen outside of germany.
BingoBoingo: On the plus side if you want to do non-narcotic houseplants or balcony vegetables in Uruguay, the quality of potting soil here is extraordinary compared to the shit in old country
asciilifeform: moreover, i suspect that the fixation on, and abuse of, 'streams', really flows from the orig unix retardation where 'errything is a file' and otherwise ~0 useful abstractions available at all
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 17:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858549 << trying to universalize incorrectly. i think the greater part of design problems come from people picking the wrong "universal" to hitch on to.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the point is the cannabis forum wankers essentially invented their own Monsanto in the same way Linus and the men alone invented their own Microshit
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc ethanol extracts various impurities along with the desired oil; hence various liquid-gas exotica
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 08:48 mircea_popescu: in other ideas : anyone wanna get a toll free us number & redirect it to here ? seems the better way to work that whole "or call xxx" angle.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 16:40 asciilifeform: diana_coman: there really aren't so many things that legitimately call for 'streams', i have nfi what the standard authors were thinking...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858549 << trying to universalize incorrectly. i think the greater part of design problems come from people picking the wrong "universal" to hitch on to.