random_cat: blame the wet pussies
davout: thestringpuller: reading fine print is a good thing, why not rate it as such? :D
davout: thestringpuller: ~paris
fluffypony: thestringpuller: new idea for a Bug Bounty program?
gribble: CVO: Summary for Cenveo Inc- Yahoo! Finance: <http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CVO>; Cascades Volcano Observatory: <http://vulcan.wr.usgs.gov/>; CVO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVO>
gribble: Chief visionary officer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_visionary_officer>; Chief executive officer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_executive_officer>; What is CVO (chief visionary officer)? - Definition from WhatIs.com: <http://searchcio.techtarget.com/definition/CVO>
gribble: Chief visionary officer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_visionary_officer>; What is CVO (chief visionary officer)? - Definition from WhatIs.com: <http://searchcio.techtarget.com/definition/CVO>; Chief Visionary Officer | The Black Man Can Institute: <http://tbmcinstitute.theblackmancan.org/leadership-team/chief-visionary-officer/>
davout: ;;rate random_cat 1 reads the fine print
bitcoinpete: levine is also doing this humint.is thing. he's the "cvo"
cazalla: maybe the editor just copy/pasta'd without proofreading
fluffypony: someone needs to tell MaidSafe and this "Dark Market" crap that they're reinventing the wheel; Tahoe-LAFS over I2P already has a web client and is a distributed data store etc.
bitcoinpete: "The MAIDSAFE project specifically and these types of crowdsales broadly have a great future ahead, but it’s a bit like launching a boat – careful thought, diligent planning and rigorous construction must all come together or the whole thing sinks." <<such derp
fluffypony: did they think it defeated journalistic integrity?
bitcoinpete: so ltb head adam levine tried writing about maidsafe for techcrunch and they pulled his article cuz it had a tip widget
fluffypony: without thinking that maybe someone mined some coins in the pool, withdrew them, and then used them
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: yep, but then some bright spark traced some coins back to BTC Guild and accused Eulethria of being complicit
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: and if you go to http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewgpg.php you should be able to just search the page for a key
bitcoinpete: fluffypony: saw that article about the mt gox coins flowing into maidsafe. that thing is more crooked than a chicago politician
fluffypony: can you search the WoT for a specific gpg key id?
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: The entire world is Italy. <- true words
HeySteve: I'm more interested in the malware and where the coins are going, I wonder if they preserved a specimen (sort of thing)
HeySteve: but they've taken action, cleaned it apparently
HeySteve: well I have no idea if they caught this early or late
HeySteve: call of duty and bong hits? who knows. but would monitoring load prevent this sort of thing occurring in the first place?
fluffypony: that just points to shitty sysadmins; if they're not monitoring load what are they doing?
HeySteve: the web lately, with malware attacks of this nature being reported by customers of AWS and the Iowa State University."
HeySteve: "This week, SingleHop engineers noticed an increase in the number of customers reporting compromised servers. As we investigated these reports, we were able to identify a common malicious software program installed on many of the compromised servers. The malware is specifically designed to siphon the server’s computing power into mining bitcoins. This has been a growing trend throughout
punkman: you can make another one for fiddy cents
fluffypony: if the Bank of England stands....England stands!
MrWDunne: We have had one bank open in the past 100 years
MrWDunne: fluffypony: In the UK it is almost impossible
fluffypony: bounce: licensing is the issue, I think
MrWDunne: Naphex: Once we have the volume we will be doing just that.
bounce wonders how hard it is to set up a bank and have it talk to other banks
fluffypony: bounce: 100% - I wasn't arguing for or against it, although I do think that the best non-AML route will always be otc/face to face
bounce: fluffypony: just scanned a bit, but we need less AML, not more. so if the rules allow for this, that's positive.
Naphex: who will mange them full time?
Naphex: MrWDunne: are you going to do the tehnical monitoring as well?
MrWDunne: Jurov: unfortunately that is every UK bank. 3% is every bank though. That is the currency conversion discrepancy
MrWDunne: Punkman: two bank accounts known to be for a bitcoin exchange, with the bank explicitly saying that is okay for us to use.
Naphex: outsourced tech is the most problematic imho
MrWDunne: Anyhow, I do now need to go. So please send any questions to me on BitcoinTalk and I'll answer them as soon as
fluffypony: yeah, and on the topic of reinventing of wheels... https://alphapoint.com seems...interesting if you're going that route
Naphex: so it depends a lot on what the tradeengine is going to do
Naphex: you're gonna need too attach lots of other components, for reporting, monitoring, and keeping track off
fluffypony: (well, an epilogue in that I don't think anything further needs to be written on the matter)
MrWDunne: Also the actual business plan is a 25 page PDF, but it has details about an additional project planned to launch in a year. And Naphex: yes we certainly do.
fluffypony: good starting point: http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/
Naphex: do you have a contract with the development team? too keep extending/bugfixing after release?
fluffypony: listing on an "exchange" that anyone can list on with zero due diligence or even an email address verification makes it doubly challenging...I suggest leveraging the -otc WoT and GPG contracts (http://wiki.bitcoin-otc.com/wiki/GPG_Contract) to build trust and tie yourself down to shareholders
punkman: so you only have quotes at the moment?
MrWDunne: Fund raising requirements are really rather simple. We already have quotes on all of the costs
fluffypony: tbh, an exchange is a REALLY tough sell given the regulatory hurdles and the track record of many past exchanges (gox etc.) - you're going to need a far more fleshed out business plan and a LOT of details about how you're overcoming the technical and legal challenges (and about how you calculate your fundraising requirements)
MrWDunne: Anyhow, I have to leave in about 10 minutes to visit another bank (looking to get additional accounts for redundancy). If you have a few questions you want me to get a proper answer to just put them here and I'll get an answer as soon as possible
MrWDunne: I believe I would be correct to say the frontend logic is simply done in PHP, but the trading engine is C++
Naphex: what's it written in? the project?
MrWDunne: The third party is doing that as they go, but prior to launch we are paying for a full security audit of the code. Also the person who referred us knows them personally, and its an interesting project.
Naphex: do you know what you get with the product you're paying for?:P
Naphex: are you doing regular code checks, security audit on the source code?
fluffypony: there wasn't any
BingoBoingo: If only these things hadn't been said so many times before.
MrWDunne: BingoBoingo: In future we will be moving to another exchange - post launch. However I will happily provide ID to a trusted member of the community in order to verify who I am - and I am willing to meet people IRL
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user fluffypony to user MrWDunne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=fluffypony&dest=MrWDunne | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=MrWDunne | Rated since: never
MrWDunne: The main thing that doomed UK ventures was the banks not knowing what they were doing, also if we sell 10,000 shares at the second tier rate (once software + servers are ready) we will have enough to take on a compliance officer from the getgo
BingoBoingo: Opening first and doing compliance later seemed to have been what doomed the other UK ventures.
MrWDunne: BingoBoingo: Our financial adviser worker at a high street bank for 25 years. He knows several people who will work in compliance once we have the volume to support them.
MrWDunne: Yes I can imagine, I'm not the one handling the most technical matters. But by the end of the month I will have the technical details available
fluffypony: probably a bunch of other things Naphex can ask
fluffypony: what the software will be written in, who the team is and what qualifies them to write the software, what database platform you're going to be using, how you'll handle consistency, etc.
HeySteve: I suggest engineering for provable deposits from the getgo, multisig control of cold wallets also good
MrWDunne: I can get those details available by the end of this month
MrWDunne: We're having a KYC/AML policy not to be legal, we don't have to do it to be legal. But to keep the bank account.
fluffypony: so there seems to be a lack of technical details about how you'll accomplish this (and Bitcoin is generally a technical audience, investors doubly so)
MrWDunne: The bank have been quite clear with how they expect us to use the account. They don't want large amounts of cash deposits
HeySteve: I suggest stating it not as "lax" but rather "minimal"
BingoBoingo: MrWDunne: Why not go full measure and take Western Union and other retail wire transfers?
MrWDunne: Not to mention we can see which bank account the money comes in from, so if 100 accounts are getting money from the same bank account it is very obvious
MrWDunne: Technically speaking we have no legal requirements to have any KYC/AML policy. We will require them giving us an address just not "proving" it. Also that is meant to be per month. I need to proof read better
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: You also have to consider the problem of actual vs. imagined volume
fluffypony: (they have a sliding fee scale dependent on volume)
fluffypony: which means their earnings are between 37.364 BTC and 93.411 BTC daily
MrWDunne: I have no idea. And I know what GLBSE is, the guy who ran it owns coinfloor
Diablo-D3: MrWDunne: why the fuck is anyone letting him run something again
MrWDunne: (The man who ran GLBSE)
BingoBoingo: I honestly don't know if the English, Scottish, Welsh, or North Irish have it in them any more to run anything
BingoBoingo: GLBSE was a UK exchange, and that killed it along with the operator not taking it seriosly enough until it was too late
MrWDunne: Well there is no true UK bitcoin exchange, but yes I will make it more specific. One moment
fluffypony: rather than "The UK is the world's 6th largest economy, but so far they have no bitcoin exchange"
MrWDunne: It was thanks to our main adviser we have the account. The banks are all turning everyone down however an exception was made essentially.
MrWDunne: SEPA incurs a 3% hidden cost + £15. Also in the UK it doesn't normally take a day for a SEPA, more like 3.
fluffypony: except that if Kraken, Bitstamp, and CoinFloor all chose to have bank accounts outside of the UK (presumably not for lack of trying) how do you propose to overcome that hurdle?
ozbot: Faster Payments Service - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MrWDunne: In the UK we have "Faster Payments" which are free and instant bank transfers. CoinFloor take international wires which cost between £15 and £25 and take up to 5 days
MrWDunne: They have a polish bank account
MrWDunne: We have of course already secured the bank account
fluffypony: like them?
MrWDunne: That is the primary difference
MrWDunne: Bitstamp isn't really in the UK. Its mainland Europe and as such very expensive for those in the UK
fluffypony: "The company initially operated in Slovenia, but moved its operations to the UK in April 2013"
ozbot: Bitstamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
fluffypony: Bitstamp is already in the UK?
MrWDunne: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583262.0 has the relevant information, essentially I am currently working on a UK bitcoin exchange
MrWDunne: Anyhow, I thought this would be an appropriate place to announce the IPO
DrFluffyPonyPhd: I know some other people who were being drilled until about 5am, just not with questions
DrFluffyPonyPhd: how goes the shower-cap-wearing Satan worshipper colleague of yours?
HeySteve: CCN editor scooped me on the China Ban #4 story
HeySteve: it's a bit pricy but the low weight is a plus
HeySteve: fluffypony, I recommend a portable Honda generator like the EU20i
fluffypony: feeling so left out without a title amongst all the Mr's and Dr's
fluffypony: between the MrWDunne guy and DrGregMulhauser I'm seriously considering becoming SirFluffyPonyPhd on bitcointalk
fluffypony: I loved the comment by theMiracle - "Protip 4 U 2: Take it slow. Start off by snagging a few extra newspapers from a vending machine when u pay for one. Practice stealing rolls of toilet paper from public restrooms. Get the hang of the basics -- then you can come back to looting bitcoiners."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2014/the-scum/ here, that is what you made me do.
mircea_popescu: sure. it's one of the principal tasks mpoe-pr had
decimation: one can see a business opportunity: summarize the gazette in a trustworthy manner, like a monk-scribe and not like a "journalist"
decimation: This reaction being fully played for everyone in the WoT to judge, of course
mircea_popescu: decimation depends on the reaction of the corporation. if they fire him, him. if they don't, both.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: ;;later tell mircea_popescu how does the idea of the Punishment Gazette interact with the common law idea of corporate personhood? When you are wronged by an idiot employee, is it he who takes the hit on the WoT or his employer?
decimation: presuming that only %46 of Americans can qualify for a mortgage, it seems likely that a subset of that %46 will end up owning %100 of the homes
Apocalyptic: amazon is not the only one with this business model
decimation: The CFED calls these folks ?liquid asset poor,? and its report finds that 44% of Americans are living with less than $5,887 in savings for a family of four. The plight of these folks is compounded by the fact that the recession ravaged many Americans? credit scores to the point that now 56% percent of us have subprime credit.
benkay: get out of this shithole somehow or make it tolerable until the us comes crashing down about my ears.
decimation: well, people "need" "their" "stuff"
benkay: in one way or another i've been standing by and squirting grease on the thing since i was a bairn.
benkay: shipping finely spun plastic widgets that should never have been made to the herds who should never have been granted credit in the first place
decimation: heh well that's a plan I guess. It's honest work at least, keeping the internet goblins at bay
benkay: decimation: if i burn all my bridges here, i'm moving up to seattle and working in the server mines for a year to reestablish my capital base.
benkay: kinda hoping to get the tax situation dialed before btc legs up
decimation: I suspect a large crash would signal another leg up for bitcoin though
decimation: re: amazon, I've heard it's a tough life working there. Look at the glassdoor reviews: they cheapskate on everything. Yeah, the salary is okay, but you better enjoy being on call
decimation: but the "recovery" is great guys, just some snow, no problems here
decimation: In the first quarter of 2014, mortgage originations at Citigroup Inc. (NYSE/C) declined 71% from the same period a year ago. The bank issued $5.2 billion in mortgages in the first quarter of 2014, compared to $8.3 billion in the previous quarter and $18.0 billion in the first quarter of 2013. (Source: Citigroup Inc. web site, last accessed April 14, 2014.)
ozbot: Dead-Cat Bounce Over for the Housing Market?
benkay: that's the short of it, BingoBoingo
benkay: BingoBoingo: what, you want me to perpetuate the mystery in a blog post or three? ;)
ozbot: WWII Propaganda Billboards From The United States' Secret Atomic City
BingoBoingo: benkay: As best as I can tell with Amazon is that they have done nothing other than reinvest in their history. Like the Poker Player who doubled down 21 times in row and won.
benkay: i haven't looked at the actual books but i'm imagining that each spend on one side is balanced by an acquisition on the other. maybe just of engineering time, but w/e.
BingoBoingo: Bitch to scrape off of the floor, but... learning
BingoBoingo: benkay: Mosin was one option, some sks variant was another with the particular variant left in the air, so long as it wasn't chinese
BingoBoingo: benkay: Amazon burns all the capital, because growth.
benkay: oh wizards of high finance and running companies - what the fuck is up with amazon?
benkay: BingoBoingo: couldn't say i'm a rebel cascadian hiding in the hills
ThickAsThieves: the sky, it's at my feet!
BingoBoingo: Poor assbot, the BTC-TC collapse has kept it so quiet
BingoBoingo: Narrative: Innexplicable offense, still moar inexplicable offense, dissapointement by regression to the mean.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If you want a shortcut to understanding baseball the 2011 world series game six and 2012 StL vs. Washington NLDS game five paired with the 2013 NLCS makes a nice summary of the entire contemporary game
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Reminds me of a conundrum. Every US Infantry officer gets the chance at ranger school after graduation, but many officers deployed to ostentiably infantry assignments will not be infantry officers.
benkay: 's why i'm in mgmt these days
benkay: mircea_popescu: dun think i got any credit for popping the recent sybils.
BingoBoingo: Otherwise we could suppose infinite shitty alternate artillery games where one side produces a grunt who climbs a hill and stabs the cannon to death.
benkay: <mircea_popescu> and i'm not gonna give stan any more credit than i gave benkay either << wot ch2 omission smarted
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Actually I am thinking the Apple II version, but yes, that artillery game
BingoBoingo: Vs. artillery where the opponent merely needs to hit you once
BingoBoingo: Well, a pitcher to get an out either has to throw three strikes or get the hitter to put the ball in a location favorable to one of their fielders.
BingoBoingo: In chess there is a tremendous advantage to anticipating lines your opponent might try to put forth.
asciilifeform: anyone here other than BingoBoingo - gets this?
BingoBoingo: Though on the same team and Albert Pujols becoming a legend first, this is the exact machanism that made Pujols fungible with Carlos Beltran et al. while Molina was and is irreplaceable.
BingoBoingo: Normally the answer is the catcher calling pitches, as a great catcher is a slightly better source of entropy than the batter
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well I mentioned this in another post, but it goes back to baseball. Who carries half of a ptcher's success and why?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
benkay: ;;later tell decimation i did indeed and would be pleased to help you do the same although i'm sure you can figure it out
mircea_popescu: what are you going to say, "herp", because you already used the proper expression in april 2014 ?
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> asciilifeform: It is well within the specs I set when I raped herbi and his wife's future. << dude srsly.
BingoBoingo: Read on, you saw it the first time.
BingoBoingo: You were at points in the conversation.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The conversation is attached to here http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/04/24/my-role-in-s-mpif/
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It is well within the specs I set when I raped herbi and his wife's future.
BingoBoingo: There are some practical restrictions. Like my preference for menthol cigarettes.
BingoBoingo: The beautiful thing is this doesn't much matter.
BingoBoingo: The only people IRL on OL with similar issues were notorious epileptics so I guess being more functional than that is a plus.
BingoBoingo: I also throw a bowling ball with alternating hands given situations favorable to one side or the other's strengths
asciilifeform: folks in the Dark Future of Hello Kitty (TM) splitting their brain, so they can literally (in their head) fuck themselves.
BingoBoingo: My left eye tremendously overpowers the right, but my right hand tremendously has dexterity over the left.
BingoBoingo: I have an admitedly odd neurology. I throw a baseball right handed but have to shoot the rifle left handed.
gribble: MPTP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPTP>; Opiophilia: The Frozen Addicts: A Cautionary Tale: <http://opiophilia.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-frozen-addicts-cautionary-tale.html>; Heroin, MPTP, and the key to Parkinson's Disease - Everything2.com: <http://everything2.com/title/Heroin%252C+MPTP%252C+and+the+key+to+Parkinson%2527s+Disease>
mircea_popescu: anyway. i'm kinda up to here with the smoking addiction thing. i've been smoking since ~16. that's two decades ago. i still smoke, i average a pack a month. prolly less these days. it takes all the willpower of a tomato as far as i can tell, it's never bothered me.
BingoBoingo: Keep in mind my experiences prolly don't map onto to many others. I'm missing 1/2 to 3/4 the D2 receptors most people have in the general population)
BingoBoingo: Over 15lbs even, if we are going arbitrary and 16 hours, 5-15 lbs, The unpredictability of load has value.
BingoBoingo: 16 hours of lifting arbitrary things about nicotine cessation for the habituated
mircea_popescu: suddenly the hot fucking hell is like...
mircea_popescu: after six weeks of that, the choice is never smoke again and never have to crate it up again
BingoBoingo: Well, you have to consider what receptor is involved at the intersection of skeletal muscle and the neuro
mircea_popescu: get a special bed rigged where you get pricked with a pin. all the time. somewhere.
asciilifeform: teeth? what'd you have? the fabled 'radio amalgam' ?
BingoBoingo: Imma prolly miss the shocks.
mircea_popescu: people just conveniently pretend like their experiences matter out of all proportion.
mircea_popescu: it raises the most minor of inconveniences conceivable.
BingoBoingo: Nicotine is the perfect model of an addictive drug because tremendous excess is tolerated by the peripheral neurons, but its absence after tolerance raises holy fucking hell.
BingoBoingo: With L-Dopa the Blood Brain Barrier plays a role, but convulsions play a bigger one
asciilifeform: eat L-DOPA and broadbreans << nope. kinetics are 90% of the fun
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And I sat through literally 2/3rds of the PharmD curiculumn, half of it twice. But as a TA so I get no credit for having done such a thing.
BingoBoingo: If dopamine for its own sake was the desired effect, junkies would skip heroin and just eat L-DOPA and broadbreans
asciilifeform: one of the things i used to do is model action of oximes (as an antidote to anticholinergics)
mircea_popescu: and i'm not gonna give stan any more credit than i gave benkay either
BingoBoingo: And of the major addictive drugs of abuse only cocaine and amphetamines hit any type of dopamine receptor primarily
mircea_popescu: dude i love this chan. i shall now write yet another great trilema article on the basis of shit i ran into here.
BingoBoingo: There are different dopamine agonists and antagonists that don't all hit the same types of dopamine receptors
BingoBoingo: Well, think of dopamine (which the pharmacologically illerterate posit fuels all addiction)
asciilifeform: the little plane that goes to timis. from germany is astoundingly bus-like.
mircea_popescu: well... they're kinda similar.
BingoBoingo: And the literature reveals nicotine excites some, but not all cholinergic receptors.
gribble: Nicotinic acetylcholine receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinic_acetylcholine_receptor>; Acetylcholine receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetylcholine_receptor>; Nicotinic agonist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinic_agonist>
mircea_popescu: "If you /are/ the majority and I am in the minority, how could you possibly believe that I have not already and many years ago figured out exactly how you guys work? If you had the brain to do it, this would be a grave insult, but you do not think ahead. You do in fact not think at all, because the things you say can only be uttered by a mind closed shut long ago."
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Your link on nootropics reminds me of why the alcohol/caffine combination is my prefered and only regular combination from that toolset.
BingoBoingo: Pine tar is spiking the plane (The F-16, a wily old pitcher) amphetamine is spiking the pilot (B-2 crews, Barry Bonds)
asciilifeform: basic boojum here is, however, 'first ecstacy, then laundry'
asciilifeform: one can easily think of the design boundaries here (spiked fellow in ww1 sopwith, vs 'clean' one in modern jet)
BingoBoingo: Of course. It is better though if both the pilot and plane are spiked.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo but the one thing that makes the plane "more responsive" is spiking the pilot.
asciilifeform: i can hardly think of pine tar without tasting in my head that crap the greeks drink.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Or rocket with boosters. The sauce only provides benefits for so long.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Pine tar. So the sticky stuff pine leaks basically. Batters use it to not throw the bat into the crowd. Pitchers use it to add precision to the point they release the ball.
mircea_popescu: this is what, tar like on their hands ? like oil ?
asciilifeform: mandatory reading for the 'better living through chemistry' aficionados.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: And this is baseball so there are nearly as many balls spent in the game as outs.
BingoBoingo: It was rumored that in baseball clubhouses leaded vs. unleaded was how they refered to amphetamine spiked coffee
ThickAsThieves: lol forumite says to me "What would it possibly take for you to remove the negative trust you left me?"
BingoBoingo: But the distinction between leaded and unleaded coffee isn't caffinated vs. decaf.
mircea_popescu: the se;f confidence thing sounds just like greenspun's problem
BingoBoingo: And is the reason many high level players don't want to see olympic chess.
BingoBoingo: (This sidesteps the part where all of the good batters have ADHD diagnoses because amphetamines are the best performance enhancer for a batter)
BingoBoingo: Basically there are reasons it is mostly aging hitters taking steroids, but every pitcher is doctoring the ball.
BingoBoingo: Steroids do little in baseball beyond decreasing the time to recover from injury and maybe adding a bit of power. Doctoring a ball though is nearly essential for a pitcher to excel.
ThickAsThieves: pitchers argue its only to prevent totally losing the ball into ttghe crowd
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Different from steroids in that the results are more quantifiable.