fluffypony: essential to the WoT is identity
ThickAsThieves: you'd need to add several fields to the db
davout: ThickAsThieves: if i wanted to argue the opposite i'd say criminals that aren't in the wot weren't part of the economy in the first place, so that would be a non-issue
ThickAsThieves: (i could spend time arguing otherwise)
HeySteve: it may be best to think of them as placeholder ratings which the entities can later assume once validated
ThickAsThieves: they have reputation that transcends a log
punkman: ThickAsThieves: well there's Paypal for example, but how is that useful http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=paypal
HeySteve: I can see the value of rating unregistered entities
chetty: <ThickAsThieves> since when do criminals register for such themselves?// great point!!
kakobrekla: fluffypony theres a chan on freenode which prints all changes
ThickAsThieves: you see, if the WoT is a punishment gazette, since when do criminals register for such themselves?
ThickAsThieves: not that this is a 'problem' but i'd also like to see a way to rate entities which haven't registered in the WoT yet
ThickAsThieves: maybe he keeps the printed log
fluffypony: I've just checked the db
ThickAsThieves: I dont think it's hard to argue that the current WoT could be improved
ThickAsThieves: <bitcoinpete> speaking of the gaming industry, looks like it's promo, promo, zaniness http://www.tweaktown.com/news/37531/bungie-s-destiny-could-top-gta-5-as-most-expensive-game-ever/index.html /// i just watched the trailer this morning, looks okay, but kinda missing some sizzle if it wants to beat GTA
ThickAsThieves: <+HeySteve> right, I get it. I am trying to finetune the WoT system without fixing what ain't broke. this is a definite point of improvement /// you are fixing it by making something, or fixing your brain?
HeySteve: right, I get it. I am trying to finetune the WoT system without fixing what ain't broke. this is a definite point of improvement
mircea_popescu: HeySteve so in those terms, it's valuable for enforcing the point 2, permanence.
HeySteve: mircea_popescu, so this then creates a more comprehensive gazette?
pankkake: lol TrustSharesIPO__ / TrustSharesIPO spamming the order book
mircea_popescu: you can read the above link too, it may clarify
DrewHorne: so i could earn trust by either performing a task for someone and demonstrating competency or by purchasing something from someone with bitcoin and just paying them immediately and correctly
mircea_popescu: HeySteve http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/ i meant that
DrewHorne: are there actually services / tasks requested of people on here?
HeySteve: mircea_popescu, Austrian economic theory mostly
fluffypony: DrewHorne: you may want to check the bitcoin-otc order book
DrewHorne: seems like there would be a way to archive tasks?
mircea_popescu: DrewHorne kinda what we're trying to work out atm. there is a wiki, but not too fleshed out yet
DrewHorne: ok so seriously though how is the best way to sort though all of this for an actual task rather than just read all of yalls entertaining multifaceted chat
mircea_popescu: DrewHorne it's in there, read up
mircea_popescu: but there was no wot in 2001
mircea_popescu: something not necessarily covered by wot anyway yet, as some people rated each other in 2011 might have known each other since 2001
DrewHorne: i guess i missed the convo on beating small children
DrewHorne: the first thing that popped out from the log was "mircea_popescu:incidentally, it occurs to me someone should do a topic summary of this channel. what have we been discussing today, music, heaters, beating small children, points of history of cryptography academic publications minutia, radiobiology"
mircea_popescu: pankkake course the canonical way around is to just ask the rater. he can tell you how far back the relationship goes
mircea_popescu: like above the history phd bit. obviously useless to you, as youre no historian by trade, but we are a diverse bucnh with diverse needs.
pankkake: 1) I'm an assburger 2) but I would rather talk to the ones with the oldest initial rating, anyway
mircea_popescu: DrewHorne you can read the logs of this chan. ocasionally things pop up for people to do.
mircea_popescu: pankkake it does have a chilling effect, because sometimes i'm hesitant to update very old ratings, and just let them be "good enough"
DrewHorne: go to the logs web address?
mircea_popescu: DrewHorne you know how to read thew logs here ?
HeySteve: or check the blockchain, pankkake :)
mircea_popescu: pankkake you can log the ratings chan
pankkake: it's too bad that you only see the last update of a rating. I feel like it has value to know when it appeared first
mircea_popescu: prolly the former tbh :p
mircea_popescu: so either gribble actually keeps track of the oldest rating oyu ever got and someone modified their oct 15th rating
mircea_popescu: it's about you not our relationship. and also, http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=thestringpuller your oldest rating seems to be from oct 17th
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user thestringpuller: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 6 via 5 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=thestringpuller | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=thestringpuller | Rated since: Mon Oct 15 18:46:37 2012
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust thestringpuller
DrewHorne: successful morning for someone not well versed in the bitcoin space, im a fast learner
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller that rated since is about my rating, not generally.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller no he's actually 0.
DrewHorne: so thats basically saying that i am now registered on the wot but i have 0 trust thus far
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask DrewHorne!~DrewHorne@215.sub-70-193-130.myvzw.com. Trust relationship from user assbot to user DrewHorne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=DrewHorne | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=DrewHorne | Rated since: never
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask DrewHorne!~DrewHorne@215.sub-70-193-130.myvzw.com. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user DrewHorne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=DrewHorne | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=DrewHorne | Rated since: never
fluffypony: pankkake: yeah - to a large degree, investors don't *necessarily* have the knowledge to be in the space the business is operating in (otherwise they'd be in the space), so they're just proffering an opinion
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller so do i :D
DrewHorne: how do i check my trust with gribble? i saw that yall were checking me on it last night, that basically checks with gribble on the wot correct?
mircea_popescu: DrewHorne im really not interested in carrying private conversations. we don't know each other, we have nothing private to discuss.
mircea_popescu: at the very most tyhe management could solicit nonbinding opinions from holders, there's a mpex mechanism for doing this embedded in some listing agreements,
pankkake: I like the point where you'd have to trust other shareholder's opinions. I certainly wouldn't want that
mircea_popescu: these days, a website going to waste ? heh.
mircea_popescu: chetty exactly. but in the old days of imperfect economy, people actually had to have a backchannel, and take over the tractor or whatever it was
chetty: buying stock should indicate confidence in management, sell is lack of such - what better votes are there?
mircea_popescu: history has shown that their opinions weren't worth holding.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if you read the original thread of the sdice listing, the same sort of derpage was raised by the losers vocal there. amoing a pile of other "good and considered" reasons not to invest.
mircea_popescu: immaterial means of production and geographically dispersed agents reduces the corporate voting to meaninglessness. not that it worked too well pre bitcoin, either.
mircea_popescu: voting rights made sense in the old days of geographically fixed agents and material means of production. that situation changed.
mircea_popescu: voting rights are nonsense in bitcoin anyway. what the fuck are they going to do, get a confederatied majority and... what, oust you ? take over ?
fluffypony: and I'm trying to understand why it's so important to them
fluffypony: what's the rationale behind investors getting voting rights if they cumulatively own like 10% or 20% of a company? doesn't that seem redundant?
mircea_popescu: at any rate it'd be proper scholarship, rather than the current courtois-type nonsense.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, if any of you is fucking a history major on the side... maybe it's time for her phd.
pankkake: I wonder how history will work in the future. You used to have not enough data, now you have too much
mircea_popescu: i dunno that there could be a better one, should get magna.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, this could be a phd thesis for a history student in a good uni.
mircea_popescu: the lack of which is the worst problem of history, because you never quite know for sure just how important this particular bit of nonsense really is
mircea_popescu: yeah. unlike a historian, it has the invaluable advantage that people present in the deepest strata of history are still around today, and they can say either "ah, that one point is fucking stupid, forget it" or the contrary.
fluffypony: one of the two
mircea_popescu: cool. so then it should build context from present day through archeological remains,
fluffypony: yes - to satisfy the noobs and if correctly tagged and annotated it's a searchable repository of information
mircea_popescu: this thing you're making, it's intended to satisfy the needs of noobs, right ?
mircea_popescu: they would be building context in the way of the noob, rather than i nthe way of the sacred cow.
mircea_popescu: read the link you sent again!
mircea_popescu: fluffypony you didn't get shot down ? i supported it, what did you think "fluffypony on the topic of how good design begets business." meant ?
mircea_popescu: i tell you it's not my mood, that'd be like saying the girl was horny. no, no, it was in your approach, not in her horniness i tell you! he somehow, improbably, managed to whistle into the modem.
mircea_popescu: bitcoinpete: just readin logs atm, looks like drew came by with quite the edm business proposal. mp's flowers must have put him in a fabulous mood because he's !downed newcomers for less << someone should sometime do a comparative study of how noobs fare in here.
mircea_popescu: the magnificent assets have any suggestion as to what i should say to the redditard next ?
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: how does it get executed << euro future, settles 15th of each month, can be delivered as euros on bitcoin central.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: mpex drop? << yeah it like, plunged a few days ago. it actually does this, probably to mess with mike trying to understand the news impact.
mircea_popescu: course, it used to be made by the girl in question, but hey. "if the cake is tasty, maybe we should come to this place more often"
mircea_popescu: by the way, that's actually quite ancient chinese stuff.
mircea_popescu: i don't think there ever existed or could ever exist a functioning society in which nursing jobs are to be discounted because too little demand and too many people wanting to do it.
mircea_popescu: now granted, if the thing they want to do is i dunno, watch tv, then one could say "how about you do this instead".
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: if she speaks English, why doesn't she look at the TEFL stuff and similar? I have a friend in Cape Town who teaches English via Skype to foreigners, she doesn't have to speak a foreign language, just has to be able to speak English
mircea_popescu: the curse of being born in the best country in the world, a few decades before it became the best country in the world.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: couldn't pay for my fucking coffee. not all the coffee i drink in a week, either, just, one time.
mircea_popescu: "maybe they'll find more"
mircea_popescu: the best she could find was this deal where she took ~12 hours' worth of examinations, and they got her a thing for 3 hours / week.
mircea_popescu: because "the recession is over", yet people with valuable experience and qualifications are looking for work. this somehow makes sense.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, listen to this sad story : the mother of a friend, who has been a nurse all her life, 20+ years, and who is actually a very good nurse, and who's got a back injury from lifting people in wheelchair up to busses and so on, has been trying for the past 6 months to get a job.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, venezuela is also a federal republic. only... 30ish years more advanced than the us
mircea_popescu: in spite of the government having clearly made a rule that there should be toilet paper!
mircea_popescu: the burgeoisie, god damned them, keep making it impossible for the working man to find toilet paper in the store.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony the socialist state in its final decomposition stages has identified the enemies of the people : savers and owners.
jurov: DrewHorne: fine, thanks. you're the festival organizer?
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pineapples | what the fuck are you looking at the definition of pineapples for you stupid fuck?
frankenmint: yea which means cutting corners, some hardware hosting folks I talked to mentioned that large private mining clients want barebones power to setup their own rigs and cooling
fluffypony: I get the feeling that the only people buying GPU rigs atm are people who want to buy them cheaply
fluffypony: mircea_popescu:lol pron anal-yzation engines is where the webmoney is! <- quick! someone tell MRKLYE!
bitcoinpete: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/10/the-navys-newest-warship-is-powered-by-linux/
bitcoinpete: TheNewDeal: it is looking pretty darn sure… i'll mull it over for a day and let you know
fluffypony: bitcoinpete: I feel like I missed the action :-P
fluffypony: TheNewDeal: I'm a poor gambler, and don't know enough about it to make a commitment
bitcoinpete: why the sale?
bitcoinpete: just readin logs atm, looks like drew came by with quite the edm business proposal. mp's flowers must have put him in a fabulous mood because he's !downed newcomers for less
nubbins`: what's the word
bitcoinpete: benkay: mircea_popescu has a standing offer on the table for people to promote the cardano <<say whaaat? colour me curious
bitcoinpete: peterl: and make insurance claims! and call ambulances and police to the scene!
peterl: let's break a bunch of windows and pay people to fix them!
bitcoinpete: http://business.financialpost.com/2014/05/06/kinder-morgan-clarifies-embarrassing-oil-spill-benefits-comments/?__lsa=98ce-f45a <<kinder morgan dude, who knows what he's talking about as much as the clippers guy, apologized
bitcoinpete: “Spill response and clean-up creates business and employment opportunities for affected communities, regions, and cleanup service providers.” <<true enough. the gdp-based economy is the car accident economy, which is exactly why bitcoin is so important
bitcoinpete: "As it stands, banks fear being held liable if funds sent through money transmitters reach terrorist organizations or other criminal groups. In one such case, two Somali-American women were found guilty of sending money transfers to the terrorist organization al Shabaab."
bitcoinpete: "AML regulations are meant to stop drug cartels and terrorists from using banks to conduct criminal activity. But the strict interpretation of those rules may be causing inadvertent harm to people in Somalia — a war-torn country where large numbers of people depend on money transfers from friends and relatives abroad to cover their basic needs."
gribble: The operation succeeded.
bitcoinpete: ;;later tell ThickAsThieves speaking of the gaming industry, looks like it's promo, promo, zaniness http://www.tweaktown.com/news/37531/bungie-s-destiny-could-top-gta-5-as-most-expensive-game-ever/index.html
TheNewDeal: new to reading these types of documents. Has taken me MANY glances to understand the gist of that
peterl: if you buy it, you can trade the shares for euros on bitcoincentral, I think?
TheNewDeal: what is the x.eur?
peterl: hmm, not a real hot seller, I don't think that is where the mpoe action is going
BingoBoingo: Could be a reduction in enthusiasm due to lack of MPEX chatter in mainstream press and X.eur and F.MPIF having whet the appetite for new listings
peterl: change in mpex price is just mircea_popescu having fun messing with the people trying to daytrade his stock
benkay: start there.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user benkay to user Drew: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=benkay&dest=Drew | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Drew | Rated since: never
mircea_popescu: the gals im seeing tonite.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is all for me. see you ~guys~ in the morning.
asciilifeform: it's a shaped charge. so, your luck depends on the fragments flying, among other things.
mircea_popescu: mike_c the soldier *may* survive.
asciilifeform: in comments to the parade film, people asked, 'why toilet plungers?!'
mike_c: asciilifeform: does the soldier survive? it's not a kamikaze thing is it?
asciilifeform: (that 'lance mine.' there's a vietnamese film, of a parade, 1970s, where merry cadets march around with... them. presumably spoils of the old war.)
mircea_popescu: ok. so this was for the lunar thing ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: works better from safe distance << not everybody gets the luxury of a safe distance. some folks have to make do with, e.g. -
mircea_popescu: land of the <del>brave</del> fucktarded.
mircea_popescu: can you believe, dear assets, that the ticket mafia gypped him for almost 40% of the rent of the venue ?
Drew: Cost of Goods Sold Artists463,350 Marketing184,600 Production92,300 Security46,150 Ticket Fee20,470 Venue52,775 Other0 Cost of Goods Sold859,645 Gross Profit (Loss)778,133
asciilifeform: when the glass breaks.
asciilifeform: sorta like the earthquake machine.
benkay: <Drew> but while buying an idaho bun may taste different than a florida bun, a meyer subwoofer rented from idaho would be the same as one rented in florida << the tastes and social mores differ wildly across the different regions. f'r instance, you'll have a mighty hard time displacing red cube in portland (but again don't ever do anything in this town)
asciilifeform: this is called 'heighten the contradictions'
mircea_popescu: already working on it in the us to a distasteful degree.
mircea_popescu: maybe with too many incentives stacked up, they'll figure out a way to do it, and that'll be a horror worse than any other.
mircea_popescu: "Let the trolls try to collect danegeld from a hundred million consumers!" << this may be dangerous, in that putting too much weight on something "that will hold anything" never works. like you know, 19th century poliution and the ideas of "send fumes in the air, it can take anything" or "water will wash anyhing away"
TheNewDeal: ... re god help us if we end up executing code off the data
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal to ?
mircea_popescu: benkay i dunno, that's why the producers hire research depts yo uknow ? not my jobsworth :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the horror with which nearly every reader (who wrote in) reacted to that piece, is indicative of the true depths of the hole we are in.
benkay: <mircea_popescu> why portland and not boston ? << generally there is only one reason to locate in portland and that is low-cost 'engineering' talent.
mircea_popescu: then i'll consider it
mircea_popescu: let's have the equipment first
asciilifeform: with the correct equipment.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the same way that jumping out of an airplane can be a good idea.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal no im just saying switching nicks is a very expensive operation for everyone else
mircea_popescu: "I really would like you to contrast that with what you have to do with HTML on the Internet. " asciilifeform re your article, god help us if we end up executing code off the data
mircea_popescu: flatron tv set in hole in the wall ruin sort of thing
mircea_popescu: punkman favela if memory serves is the precarious squatting living arrangements most south america enjoys
punkman: "Favela Chic is when you have lost everything material, everything you built and everything you had, but you’re still wired to the gills! And really big on Facebook. That’s Favela Chic."
asciilifeform: life of the feral animal is hard, sure.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well that's my pov. i mostly care about, interact with and experience the world through womenz.
asciilifeform: this is sorta like using alley cat as illustration of the biology of felis silverstris
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: somewhat tangentially, i notice that your illustrative examples of the ragged and starving are always grlz.
mircea_popescu: Drew that was the shittiest summary in recorded history. try again.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically it boils down to, your sorting algorithm of evil not matching theirs.
Drew: in all likelihood we won't need the whole 1.25 million but there is a cushion of about 300,000 built in
Drew: talent buying, venue rentals, sound / lighting equipment, staffing, security, other event related costs
Drew: the 1.25 million would, in summary, be used for the following over approximately 3 of the 5 years mentioned for the plan
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform frame the question better : you've not had any decent sleep in a week, you gotta make it in time to work cause else it's your ass.
asciilifeform: and know quite a few others who feasted likewise.
mircea_popescu: unless it's on obamacare they can't afford it.
asciilifeform: yes, viet cong had to fill bamboo stalks with half-dead batteries to power a radio. but the average shaved ape today is drowning in cheap hardware.
mircea_popescu: the world over.
asciilifeform: innocent of the resources to get a spare disk << india? zimbabwe?
mircea_popescu: yeah, seriously, it is so very difficult to understand. couldn't have even predicted it, either. o.O
mircea_popescu: "It is likely that the success of LZW and its thousands of implementations, especially among small developers, caught Unisys unprepared. Otherwise, it would be difficult to understand how Unisys could first allow a very large number of small and big developers to use LZW for years, and then, after the establishment of various standards based on LZW, change its attitude."
mircea_popescu: no, just, innocent of the resources to get a spare disk.
asciilifeform: i suppose 'people' are also innocent of the concept of backup.
mircea_popescu: or else they put up with whatever nonsensical demands expectations and assorted nonsense someone with a chicken coop available may wish to put forward.
mircea_popescu: so they either do it in the bushes, with the constant risk of a stray dog taking a piss on the couple during,
mircea_popescu: think of it this way : most women alive today can not afford to enforce the privacy of a room to fuck in.
mircea_popescu: people are poor, and while the little they own is still all they own, the security they can feasibly deploy is nil
mircea_popescu: people keep "everything they have" in reach of the government, and i nreach of a woman they met two weeks ago while drunk, and so on.
asciilifeform: and, who, exactly, keeps anything they cannot afford to lose, on a Pnohe?
asciilifeform: wonder if they serve any purpose but... this.
mircea_popescu: they change about every 2 years, which consequently is the experimental period of law enforcing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you seen the earlier bit about the php/objective-c key mismatch issue ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, the guy explained romanian ethnogenesis in those terms. he meant dacians and thracians, not that that version'd have been any more sensible.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you want the license, visit a used book store, buy the question set, memorize, pony up the fee. at no point will you need to use brain.
asciilifeform: ducks/trucks line wasn't there
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'don't touch the mustache.' (どういたしまして)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the words of romania's first 3rd republic president, "we come from the ducks that come from the trucks"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not quite to the degree, but god help you if you seem to think there's no such thing as "thracians", as distinct from whatever sarmatian cloud
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in it, do the dacians build rome?
Drew: mircea honestly if you are willing i would love to shoot you over the complete financials to check out
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: US amateur radio licensing << there is an exam, multiple choice, concerning basic physics and law (as it pertains to radio in usa). the questions, if i recall, are... published. just like the joke that is u.s. 'citizenship test.'
Drew: well i'm glad there is hope for me yet
mircea_popescu: casual examination would indicate otherwise, but hey. you're a millenial aren't you ? got plenty of time.
mircea_popescu: of course, the us college hasn't been giving people thinking tools in 50 years, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: Drew the problem of not having completed formal education is that you don't end up with a structured thinking process. this is not so bad for people like engineers, who don't really need it quite to the degree, but you're trying to go into business.
mircea_popescu: airbnb to this day doesn't realise that it's much more successful in canada than in the us, or why.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: So I've heard. I'm just thinking of a local venture that has run into the localization issue hard as it expanded
mircea_popescu: perhaps excusable on the grounds that few higher level thinkers end up in busienss school
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo about half the case studies in us business school are actually this or applications of it, if memory serves.
Drew: but sometimes there is no good reason why no one has figured out how to use a stove yet, if we go back in time to that point
mircea_popescu: sometimes there are reasons nobody else is cooking by holding the stove on their head.
Drew: but while buying an idaho bun may taste different than a florida bun, a meyer subwoofer rented from idaho would be the same as one rented in florida
mircea_popescu: see, a good chunk of mcdonald's corporate expenditure goes to making sure that mcdonalds hamburgers are the same in atlanta and lincoln
Drew: if the brand identity was rooted in quality live music of a few main genres, and the acts were tailored by city for maximum effect, what brand identity problems would you be mainly speaking of/
mircea_popescu: do you comprehend the problems of creating brand identity over 100 geographicallyh disparate items ?
mircea_popescu: "we have 90-100 events associated with the brand across the country throughout the entire year to build promotion around, using each event as a social media hub and continuing to expand our presence. This will create the most unified EMC related brand that has existed so far, making it the literal perfect company"