BingoBoingo: decimation> BingoBoingo: I suspect most of them were destroyed rather than sold surplus << I imagine problem is more akin to why everything Alpha is still as expensive as fuck
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've looked at the SGI octane
decimation: surely those are available surplus for cheap these days
asciilifeform has desk covered in perfectly ordinary, off-the-shelf mips workstations. none cost > 10 usd.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: 'can't go to the moon by stacking chairs'
kakobrekla: yeah i have it on the counter.
asciilifeform: there's even an expression, 'сухари сушить' - 'to dry [your] breadings' - meaning to prepare for prison
decimation: asciilifeform: did the zeks eat melba toast
BingoBoingo wonders if asciilifeform is a sufficient masochist to try building Loper on the back of his MIPS or if MIPS workstation will be an intermediate product...
assbot: Zwieback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
decimation: it goes on to say that apparently Leibniz researched a method for producing a hard biscut for feeding soldiers on the march
decimation: asciilifeform: Der Werbeslogan lautete 1898: „Was ißt die Menschheit unterwegs? Na selbstverständlich Leibniz Cakes!“ "The 1898 advertisement: What does humanity eat while on the move? Why Leibniz Cakes of course!
asciilifeform: 'We have established what you are, madam. We are now merely haggling over the price.'
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform it's just thatr i can't locate any data showign they are succesfull to any degree. but anyway. << crickets i tell ya crickets
gribble: Harry Potter and the Vibrating Broom - Top 10 Dubious Toys - TIME: <http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1927306_1927313_1927329,00.html>; 15 Unintentionally Perverted Toys for Children | Cracked.com: <http://www.cracked.com/article_18494_15-unintentionally-perverted-toys-children.html>; Amazon.com: Harry Potter Broom: Toys & Games: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> perhaps there is even a 'socrates' dildo. << Sure, sold in the under 12 section in the toy store
asciilifeform: perhaps there is even a 'socrates' dildo.
ben_vulpes: different points on the trajectory
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> he also doesn't need as much to pay for the space, emotionally, as asciilifeform doe << I do, but on a different standard. asciilifeform's blog has been going much longer than mine and with greater sustained excellence
ben_vulpes: he also doesn't need as much to pay for the space, emotionally, as asciilifeform does
ben_vulpes: see BingoBoingo's looking at the long term. patience, stamina...
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> -ev (for me, naturally. can't speak for anyone else) << Between the benevolent Kakobrekla donation and the MP seeding on the Van ads first month, if I hold long enough maybe I'll be able to wrest Alpha from Intel and host the blog on 22nm chips of a not shitty heritage...
decimation: ben_vulpes: seems like a cool system, but would Leibniz decorate his Theodicee with ads for cookies?
ben_vulpes: mind you van still takes 1% of your baseline pool, even though the rest goes back directly to you.
ben_vulpes: but you can run your own ad whatever fraction of the time you're willing to pay for...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there was mention of user-tweakable minimum bids at one point ?
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I remember stumbling into asciilifeform's hypercard post well before I did the same into bitcoin... Through /. of all places
decimation is depressed about usg beating the new new new iraq war drums
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: actually, you don't know the people.
BingoBoingo: In considering ben_vulpes ad platform we knwo the people who have advertised on the blogs established in #b-a's life and wonders who will come of of the shadows to advertise on Loper... because unexpected figures may emerge...
ben_vulpes: all i know is that the house is on fire
ben_vulpes: <BlueMeanie4> thats how a money supply expands << i'm quite excited about this monetary system without insane expansion all the time.
asciilifeform: deliberate reversal of the 'arrow of causation' is a favourite tactic of academtards
gribble: The operation succeeded.
TheNewDeal: ;;later tell mike_c what's going on with the War, man?
decimation: asciilifeform: this is true, it does seem to beg the question
asciilifeform: decimation: not that this can be ruled out, but it smells of the same logic that would have us all move to japan to extend lifespan
decimation: all kinds of fiat research has shown improvements in multiple cognitive traits in the multilingual
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pederast | Used incorrectly in the media as another word for pedophilia, pederasty is commonly confused for the obsession or desire for child pornography. Pederasty is ...
BingoBoingo rememebers "There's no such thing as a standard deal" bandied about here before
TheNewDeal: the book*
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: even if you don't care for languages at all - learn it, and it's as if copyrasty never existed
TheNewDeal: russian would be a good language to learn. Some of the best authors wrote in russian
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yes. just explaining the mechanics.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i think we all understand where your ask is and where the bids currently are. as much as i'd love to have the slot, you have to want it as well for the deal to make any sense for both of us.
asciilifeform would ask for the ads, if he had any reason to think that some weirdo would bid enough right away to recompense for 'my site ever had ads'
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: I'm rushing to get to speaking, but dictionary assisted reading is like a nice puzzle
ben_vulpes: every day has a pool, the sum of coins bid on it for that day
ben_vulpes: ah well you see people bid what they're willing to pay for a day
jborkl: Ben_vulpes. Explain how it pays? Not sure on the pool btc
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: You've never chewed on strange languages before?
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: engrish version << library?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the purist
asciilifeform: not that those are umbers that really matter << they matter.
eightyeight: ben_vulpes: to seek the holy grail!
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: They don't matter beyond telling fluffypony to STFU and blog moar
BingoBoingo: BitBet is going to win the impressions race
ben_vulpes: its a pretty dumb-dumb implementation of impression tracking too - bitbet's numbers are only going to go up for the next 5 days or so
TheNewDeal: couple thousand coins sitting between 500, not the ten thousand there were before the dip
decimation: dsherm: there is some point to this, but as long as the state has a 'monopoly on violence' this isn't much of a limit
jborkl: ben_vulpes how is the advertising going?
asciilifeform: (visitor to faraway planet takes forbidden 'sobriogenic' pill, notices that no robots, only idiots who think they're robots; takes a yet more forbidden pill, notices other things are absent as well... etc)
gribble: The Futurological Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Futurological_Congress>; Stanislaw Lem, The Futurological Congress and the Future of Illusion: <http://www.transparencynow.com/introlem2.htm>; The Futurological Congress: From the Memoirs of Ijon Tichy ...: <http://www.amazon.com/The-Futurological-Congress-Memoirs- (1 more message)
dsherm: decimation: it was limited in the past by an inferior form of hard money called gold.
asciilifeform hallucinations are default in us << was not supplied with the correct drugs by warden, reduced to sobriety
BingoBoingo: jborkl: I believe everything sold above the advertised price
jborkl: How did the mike_c IPO go? Did not keep up enough lately
TheNewDeal: asciilifeform he's a usg scientist inasfar as he believes he knows the cures to all the problems in bitcoin, but in actuality, he only thoroughly understands what makes the USG machine so shitacular
dsherm: decimation: 'libertarian' has always been a losing ideology. the idea that the state will choose not the pirate what it can pirate is silly....why is lib silly
ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> there's a dick surgery song about this very thing << where's the dick surgery album?
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: wtf is a 'usg scientist' in this context? something akin to 'christian scientist' (TM) ?
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2014 01:01:27; *: asciilifeform digs in archive for the little story about the wall street 'hft' folks who omit all (!) crypto because 'speed.'
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user Jborkl_: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=Jborkl_ | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Jborkl_ | Rated since: Tue Nov 6 13:11:21 2012
decimation: as moldbug would say, the pro-state element survives on the promise of getting an ever shrinking shard of 'power'
asciilifeform: TheNewDeal: they like the status quo just fine, in most aspects. just not the present allocation of the loot.
decimation: TheNewDeal: good point. it would be a mistake to attempt to analyze pablum with logic
TheNewDeal: obummer ran on the pretense of "Change"
TheNewDeal: many of the pro-statists don't like the status quo. Haven't you seen all the hippies complain about the 1%?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what's the deal with your rating of bluemeanie4?
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user bluemeanie4: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=bluemeanie4 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=bluemeanie4 | Rated since: Tue Aug 26 15:52:35 2014
decimation: TheNewDeal: the pro-state element (most of whom you named) certainly are not fans of hard money, insofar as it upsets the status quote (state controls money)
dsherm: TheNewDeal: i suspect those crypto were also libertarians
dsherm: TheNewDeal: well then a greater percentage of anarchists seem to have more than 5 brain cells
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: Well, a difference is who it appealed to and when
TheNewDeal: sure, but it appeals to democrats, republicans, and anarchists, and anyone on the earth with more than 5 brain cells and a computer
dsherm: TheNewDeal: Bitcoin is hard money which appeals to libertarians
decimation: dsherm: 'libertarian' has always been a losing ideology. the idea that the state will choose not the pirate what it can pirate is silly
assbot: The problem of too much money pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
dsherm: TheNewDeal: bitcoin and deflation
TheNewDeal: what was the contravex blog blagging about
dsherm: TheNewDeal: i will probably be one of those guys. i gotta learn how to use this irc thing
TheNewDeal: have there been a larger than normal amount of random names dropping by for a day as of late?
TheNewDeal: then some asshat could just give you a large neg rating
gribble: Request successful for user TheNewDeal, hostmask TheNewDeal!b861d201@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.184.97.210.1. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/DFBEC17DF96DFB77
TheNewDeal: ;;eauth TheNewDeal
gribble: Nick 'TheNewDeal', with hostmask 'TheNewDeal!b861d201@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.184.97.210.1', is not identified.
TheNewDeal: authed
asciilifeform: 'can you fart a thermonuke?' --- 'sure, just this one time, only for you'
decimation: he seems less likely to be a tool of usg than others, but maybe that's what they want us to think..
asciilifeform: as they did on rsa's.
decimation: asciilifeform: which is why elliptic key systems still have doubt cast upon them (plus the patent issues)
asciilifeform: decimation: not that we're necessarily stuck with rsa for all time, but the burden of proof on anyone suggesting an alternative is bowl-loosening, if you apprehend it.
asciilifeform: !s karatsuba anthem
asciilifeform merely argues that mental rsa is not the total absurdity it appears to be on first glance
dsherm: decimation: well they're gonna try. soon i suspect? i also wonder if bitcoin is the black swan that causes the next crisis
asciilifeform: which is not to say that one could not, hypothetically, compute a numerical solution to something-or-other by tossing balls.
decimation: dsherm: I agree with you, I don't see how the world 'reverses' bitcoin as an invention
asciilifeform: and/or, the several known mental arithmetic systems, like the kind invented by trachtenberg (while starving in auschwitz!)
asciilifeform: consider the methods 'mnemonists' (a kind of stage magician) use to memorize multiple kBytes of, e.g, the digits of 'pi'
decimation: like the 3-d calculus required to catch a ball?
asciilifeform: if you could somehow harness the considerable mass of neural tissue devoted to various 'everyday' tasks for this purpose - it is certain.
decimation: asciilifeform: this is true. putting the 'weak link' on the human's shoulders puts a spotlight on his foibles
asciilifeform: but if captured by the enemy, you still confess the plaintext when hanging upside down over a nice hot fire
asciilifeform: decimation: i and perhaps a few other people did suggest, half-seriously, that people could learn to carry out, e.g., rsa, using mental arithmetic shortcuts of some variety
decimation: asciilifeform: right, but in the current computing world that exists, you must reveal your secrets to some von nuemann machine
dsherm: decimation: i think hard money specifically crypto/btc is the tool that will drive us towards a better social structure
asciilifeform: decimation: and the keys << nope. go encipher an rsa message to me and then break it without my priv key
decimation: asciilifeform: thus leading to the logic that someone must create a useful 'secure terminal'
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, and the keys
decimation: asciilifeform: yes that, but even more - you must keep the tools to 'break' it yourself to make it useful
asciilifeform: bats_cd03: the subject has very little to do with cryptography in the usual sense. it touches on what can only be described as a philosophical confusion (a deliberately-propagated one, at that.)
asciilifeform: (where the only thing that matters is the difficulty, for the enemy, of obtaining prior knowledge of the bits, and not any measurable mathematical attribute per se)
asciilifeform: and quite another for cryptography
decimation: asciilifeform: it reads like mathematical masturbation to me
thestringpuller: bats_cd03: i dunno. i guess i rate things on a scale of lupin the third to cowboy bebop
asciilifeform: bats_cd03: that is - the implicit endorsement of the pseudoscientific concept of 'random'
asciilifeform: bats_cd03: the most interesting part of such articles is, as often the case - what isn't said.
bats_cd03: 'the quest for randomness'
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user BlueMeanie4: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=BlueMeanie4 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=BlueMeanie4 | Rated since: Tue Aug 26 15:52:35 2014
decimation: at some point the dollar/bitcoin price becomes a bat-signal that psychologically overwhelms the "it's not money" derpage
decimation: asciilifeform: there is a point there. when bitcoin ramps up another order of magnitude in price, the "plunder" signal is plain for all to see
asciilifeform: a national 'shadow treasury' for the loot to end up in - is not a necessary hypothesis.
decimation: danielpbarron: I don't mind doubters, I just want one with the ability to provide points that rate above the "derp" level
asciilifeform: decimation: no need for fuhrer's orders. plenty of usg viceroys, on various levels, are in a position to plunder coin. some will wake up and understand that this gives them a shot at living slightly longer - and do it.
decimation: asciilifeform: no but someone in charge needs to issue the proper orders, I doubt even this exists
asciilifeform: which brings us back to >> I suspect that the number of USG employees who understand money is too small to coordinate a mass bitcoin theft << does one need to understand the structure of Au atom to plunder gold coins ?
asciilifeform: and rounding off with the 'greatest good for greatest number' crapolade.
asciilifeform wonders what gear these folks will change into when it dawns on them that -all- of their gods are being pissed on, vs. an arbitrary selection thereof
mircea_popescu: these borken ideas ARE capitalism.
BlueMeanie4: the problem is that the countries who didnt benefit from capitalism have a tendency to buy these broken ideas
mircea_popescu: hard money however does not. it will convince you right into the ground.
asciilifeform: just as 'are you paranoid if the gasenwagen is actually on its way,' -- 'are you still in a cult if the alien comet ship is actually parked in orbit, and waiting to pick you up?'
mircea_popescu: see, the nude emperor system does depend on everyone staying convinced.
BlueMeanie4: "all the cool countries do it"?
decimation: BlueMeanie4: you realize your argument of "all the cool countries do it" is not convincing?
mircea_popescu: "you got exotic priors" "they're widely accepted on my island" "so ?" "so you're a cult" "what's your island again ?" "Easter island."
bats_cd03: careful consideration is a characteristic of a cult. jeez, what isn't these days.
BlueMeanie4: and strangely you believe you are the position to scoff at these points when they correspond fully to how our system works right now
BlueMeanie4: youre advocating something that is not only unsupported in principle, it doesnt exist in reality either
mircea_popescu: well what do you expect. come here with exotic priors, expect everyone to accept them or else you gotta go watch cat pictures ?!
BlueMeanie4: as most of these dicussions go
mircea_popescu: the point of bitcoin is to make equality impossible and life miserable for the majority.
mircea_popescu: <BlueMeanie4> gold backing has historically reversed wealth equality << of fucking course. what gave you the ridiculous notion that we're about equality ?
BlueMeanie4: these questions are reminding me that I need to look at cat pictures
mircea_popescu: <BlueMeanie4> this gold back currency people are most ppl with no real economics background who believe they have some 'fix' to our economic problems << you know you're repating this like it's the hail mary of your faith.
BlueMeanie4: this gold back currency people are most ppl with no real economics background who believe they have some 'fix' to our economic problems
asciilifeform: BlueMeanie4: if city hall were to bring in a truck full of wooden coins, would this cause the requisite trainload of produce to materialize ?
assbot: The problem of too much money pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
gribble: Cast, nuanced writing keep Peninsula Players' 'Tin Woman ...: <http://www.jsonline.com/entertainment/arts/cast-nuanced-writing-keep-peninsula-players-tin-woman-compelling-b99296580z1-264240141.html>; Playwright Sean Grennan Talks About "The Tin Woman," a Medical ...: <http://www.bykennethjones.com/playwright-sean-grennan-talks-tin-woman-medical-transplant-comedy-heart/>; The Tin (1 more message)
asciilifeform: BlueMeanie4: no one, afaik, finds this particularly offensive. but how does it follow that the farmers will require a growing supply of the wooden coins?
mircea_popescu: <BlueMeanie4> they are not places you would want to live << amusingly, the state says this of anarchy all the time. yet i've lived in anarchy and much prefer it to any kind of currently available state.
BingoBoingo: bats_cd03> BingoBoingo: brilliant << Not a construction of mine. An event that happen, recorded in my wetware and entered into the public record
mircea_popescu: this is what the average tardstalk forum scammer says, too.
asciilifeform: BlueMeanie4: this is not an uncommon thing, and exists even here in usa (my local vegetable merchants at the market often trade with each other in primitive wooden coins they've agreed on)
mircea_popescu: <BlueMeanie4> Mircea - because so far no one has produced any sort of cogent response to my point << you would think that in either case.
BlueMeanie4: these days maybe not
BingoBoingo: <decimation> I suspect that the number of USG employees who understand money is too small to coordinate a mass bitcoin theft << Even my FBI agent admitted holding some bitcoin... The Treasury agent though was silent on the matter
BlueMeanie4: true, but the employment opps didnt necessarily exist
decimation: BlueMeanie4: your story of paupers proves nothing. if they had to skills to bulid houses, they have the skills to earn money to build houses
BlueMeanie4: nubbins, that exactly what they did
nubbins`: they said "hey man, help me wire my house? i'll do your plumbing"
bats_cd03: after you have, read some austrian theory. write a 10pg open response.
nubbins`: they didn't say "let us all go into financial debt to each other! you all owe me $100/hr for my plumbing services"
asciilifeform: BlueMeanie4: nothing stops a btc user from lending to another
bats_cd03: maybe we should rewind and assign a reading list. have you read keynesian theory, BlueMeanie4?
nubbins`: <+BlueMeanie4> but the money and debt allowed them to be specialists <<< you're 100% misunderstanding what happened, by virtue of trying to view it in the wrong frame of perspective.
BlueMeanie4: they are not places you would want to live
BlueMeanie4: there are mnay places that do have this
BlueMeanie4: what you fail to see is how the world would be if loans werent available
decimation: I provide our present trollish company as proof of the widely distributed ignorance
BlueMeanie4: if im not mistaken, it's impossible to produce enough gold to account for all the wealth in the world
mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 how do you know it's not your understanding of how money works that's the problem ?
mircea_popescu: sure, for as longas there's money to be made, why not.
decimation: I suspect that the number of USG employees who understand money is too small to coordinate a mass bitcoin theft
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the first hour with the whore suggests one's "pickup skills" aren't entirely unsuccessful either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's just thatr i can't locate any data showign they are succesfull to any degree. but anyway.
asciilifeform did (along with probably everyone else) predict this turn. i.e. - usg separating as many coins as can be turned up from their owners, by whatever means can be brought to bear
mircea_popescu: anyway, so fucking ludicrous to see the stone soup argument repackaged by people who five minutes earlier complained of ignoramus land.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where do you suppose the fuel to stoke the 'btc at 500 within 1%' engine comes from?
BingoBoingo: bats_cd03> an early silk road entrepreneur living it up on southern california after exchanging btc for fiat; authorities spy, notice new camaro but no regular employment since 2010... questioned, gasenwagen, perhaps USG confiscates some coins along the way. everything is gravy, republic lives another day. << And I bless Jebus I am but a midwestern pauper
bats_cd03: an early silk road entrepreneur living it up on southern california after exchanging btc for fiat; authorities spy, notice new camaro but no regular employment since 2010... questioned, gasenwagen, perhaps USG confiscates some coins along the way. everything is gravy, republic lives another day.
mircea_popescu: i guess he doesn't wanna addres it, but let's take a stab anyway. BlueMeanie4 suppose two people wanted to fuck, and both liked to fuck. in scenario A, they fuck. in scenario B, they exchange obligations to fuck, then fuck.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Who said anything about scaling. Sewers were a problem for the Spanish because of the scaling involved...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo doth not scale outside the dunbar number w/o a wot.
BlueMeanie4: if you have enough gold. these people didnt each have enough gold to buy a house, but collectively they had the skills to make houses
BingoBoingo: <BlueMeanie4> but the money and debt allowed them to be specialists << Fraternities at universities do this without the debt. With beer, a good, they manage to trade the good for pledge's dignity.
BlueMeanie4: decimation- try building your own house then
mircea_popescu: BlueMeanie4 okay, how would the proof that what i say is actually correct and your view mistaken look to you ?
BlueMeanie4: its similar with mortgages, requires capital to get all the specialists together to make a house
BlueMeanie4: where there was once no houses, or even individual ability to create houses, there was not a usable house
BlueMeanie4: of course they had to work
BlueMeanie4: sure it is, I met these people
bats_cd03: lol not an expert. anyway, i speculate: it could be a combination of due diligence combined with the USG trying to acquire as much btc as possible, theretofore held by citizens not entirely faithful to the fiat gods (e.g. tax evasion, other 'illegal' activities)
mircea_popescu: decimation no, they're saying that the betas should be better betas already. i agree with the sentiment.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform suspects we're being trolled << It seems many of the danielpbarron invites elicit this reaction
decimation: asciilifeform: I don't get the liber-tards argument, are they saying that women ought to be able to slut at the sluttiest parties without attracting unwanted male attention?
BlueMeanie4: well the people didnt have houses before
BlueMeanie4: either in principle or in practice
mircea_popescu: but if it does a lot of it it ends up like the us.
mircea_popescu: now, a little empoverishing itself for the sake of stroking its impatience may be okay
mircea_popescu: looky : the mortgages make society poorer not wealthier.
BlueMeanie4: this money system allowed them all to have nice houses in belgium