BingoBoingo: <lobbes> "el incendio anual" heh << Mind that before becoming a mall in a more expensive neighborhood than the Datacenter's, a good chunk of the present legislature or their parents were locked up there for being commie scum
BingoBoingo: trinque: ping me at your leisure to announce the silence
asciilifeform: ideal algo imho would carry at least 5 bit of entropy for erry bit of payload, and in such a way that all bits are 0/1 with exactly 0.5 prob.; and such that flipping one bit of ciphertext flips at least 1/2 of the output bits.
asciilifeform: but for general-purpose pgp replacement, conceivably could use something 'hungrier' but with 0 fixed structural bits. i'ma invite mircea_popescu et al to consider the subj.
asciilifeform: and hence prolly also is The Right Thing for other space-constrained applications, e.g. udptronic gossipd
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's the most economical, at the very least, algo that sorta does the job
diana_coman: my understanding was that nobody actually LIKES oaep all that much but it's (again! another one of those!) the thing we have (as opposed to the thing we might wish for)
asciilifeform: the fixed structure elements in oaep bother asciilifeform . ( initially was gonna do destructurization differently : each bit of payload turned into 4 via rng xor, then fisher-yates shuffle, then the 'deshuffling' binarysort code is appended to message. you can prove that the output is 'all or nuffin' transform. )
asciilifeform: fortunately i dun have ~that~ problem ( instead i have others, lol )
diana_coman: meanwhile the oaep got sorted better as part of smg comms really (i.e. only ada calling c, no back and forth dance and that gets rid of a LOT of confusion)
asciilifeform: it's 1 of the coupla items i dun have yet
asciilifeform: ( iirc you already ate the most difficult material )
diana_coman: the table with FFA patches looks great; I'll look into carving again some space to re-start on it
diana_coman: anyway, if anyone wants to maintain the full & detailed manual, I will happily sign their .vpatch with it,sure
diana_coman: onth I kept the quick guide and updated it to point users to a. use the bloody help of V as it's quite useful as it is! b. ask if they get stuck, wtf
diana_coman: the out of date also refers to the fact that meanwhile V has a broader scope really than trb code
diana_coman: if you notice, I said out of date at 3rd vpatch, NOT before; and yes, 2nd vpatch includes them precisely because they are at that point still perfectly fine
mod6: Anyway, *nod* looks good. I'll try to test it one of these days when I have a spare minute.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-14 10:54 diana_coman: and done: the updated .vpatch files and starter_v.zip + sigs are all up; I've checked them on my RK; genesis is the same and result is identical to V-2017; the result of 99993 .vpatch is identical to V-2018; the result of keccak_vtools vpatch is to update BOTH docs and code; re docs, I've nuked the user manual as I won't maintain it and it's becoming confusing due to being out of date; I've updated the quick_guide however, mainly for 1st t
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872191 << Totall get it that you don't want to maintain the user docs, I do disagree that they were are out date tho. I did a diff between them from the 99994K and 99993K versions and I did update it for the Feb release.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872187 << no worries, I tried to post a comment on your blog post from the train, it may have not went through.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-14 07:55 diana_coman: the genesis IS on 99994K yes, the next vpatch upgrades it to 99993K and only THEN my own vpatch changes it to use Keccak and vtools
mircea_popescu: i meant diana_coman ah i see, you redid the whole tree, that was a patch.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh i see, you redid the whole tree, that was a patch
asciilifeform: bvt: in all srs, thx for digging it up, and if anybody finds another , plox to also post, there is room in the kunstkammer .
asciilifeform: and 'how not to crypto', pretty good illustration of the tension between 'machine proofs' and 'fits in head' (author resolved wholly in favour of the former and took a tall shit on the latter)
asciilifeform: tldr : yet-another nonconstanttime , notfitinhead piece of shit, valuable exhibit for kunstkammer of 'how not to ada'
asciilifeform: https://github.com/Componolit/libsparkcrypto/blob/componolit/src/shared/generic/lsc-bignum.ads << even the declarations suffer from advanced elephantiasis
asciilifeform: i think just his bigendian vs littlendian speshulcases (why he has any?! ffa doesn't..! ) weigh moar than all of ffa together
asciilifeform: i am impressed with the sheer volume of liquishit
bvt: asciilifeform: have you seen https://github.com/Componolit/libsparkcrypto ? their modexp code looks sad, but other components may be interesting
diana_coman: hopefully this is now finally clearly set for future maintenance of any sort, but let me know if there is any other trouble you see with it
diana_coman: and yes, my test went precisely on this path: get the .zip first and then use that to press the vpatches and then check results + whether they are the very same
diana_coman: ime users really; re .zip file: the v in there is precisely what one gets by pressing my v_keccak_vtools.vpatch
diana_coman: and done: the updated .vpatch files and starter_v.zip + sigs are all up; I've checked them on my RK; genesis is the same and result is identical to V-2017; the result of 99993 .vpatch is identical to V-2018; the result of keccak_vtools vpatch is to update BOTH docs and code; re docs, I've nuked the user manual as I won't maintain it and it's becoming confusing due to being out of date; I've updated the quick_guide however, mainly for 1st t
diana_coman: so to keep this fully aligned, I'll regrind the last 2 patches so that the docs changes are carried over as well; as a result: genesis = http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20170317.tar.gz; 1st patch => http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz; 2nd patch => using vtools & keccak instead of sha
diana_coman: right, doing the diff with the archived versions at http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/ yields: my genesis is precisely http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20170317.tar.gz; the version 3 aka after applying the .vpatch http://ossasepia.com/vpatches/v_mod6_99993.vpatch does bring in the code modifications of http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz, but not the docs changes
a111: Logged on 2018-11-14 00:20 mod6: 2) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872126 << diana_coman I tried to leave you a note on your blog. But seems that you've based the genesis off of my vtron version 99994K, but there is a newer version: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz.mod6.sig Which is denoted as version 99993K.
diana_coman: if anything, I suppose I could have gotten the genesis with an earlier version
diana_coman: fwiw the keccak-version of v (i.e. pressing the tree I published all the way to its leaf) IS the corrected one re pressing order ; later today I'll do a diff with precisely the versions mod6 has at http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/ but going by version number I really don't see what "old version" are you saying
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-14#1872169 -> as ^ ; now I'm not sure if anyone actually look at the 2nd vpatch and hence it really is an old version that's there or just got hang up on the fact that I kept to preserve some history and hence genesis+vpatch to version 3
diana_coman: the genesis IS on 99994K yes, the next vpatch upgrades it to 99993K and only THEN my own vpatch changes it to use Keccak and vtools
BingoBoingo: Completely disabling Innodb pisses off the "emerge --config dev-db/mysql" script
diana_coman: mod6, I've put the vpatch, neh?
BingoBoingo: The pain comes in settin MyIASM as a default without doing the instictive right appearing thing which is disable Innodb completely.
BingoBoingo: Anyways: Blog update - I think I've found a Rockchip friendlier mysql config. Not expanding to eat all the RAM at the moment. Compiling the rest of the moving parts.
BingoBoingo: The same sort who'd upgrade without knowing why
mircea_popescu: who the fuck would even consider such shaite.
mircea_popescu: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/ << i suppose looking there would have made it obvious (check it out btw, 20th feb 2016, july 207, 22nd feb 2018!) ; but
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 22:22 asciilifeform: said only 1 thing, sumthing like 'motherfucker, you stole my name'
a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 21:12 gabriel_laddel: MP is the MP of our generation
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-29#1744472 << heh. aaanyway, it's not that g_l had necessarily a bad grasp of priors, but he did take them to strange, sometimes contorted conclusions.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 19:48 asciilifeform: it's evidently very diff animal than the zimbabwe that got its arse handed to it in '30s
asciilifeform: this was pretty serious bugfix, really oughta be in the new one
mod6: You may not want the good, and discussed changes in version 99993K. Here's a list of the changes between version 99994K and 99993K in the ML posting: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-February/000290.html
mod6: 2) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872126 << diana_coman I tried to leave you a note on your blog. But seems that you've based the genesis off of my vtron version 99994K, but there is a newer version: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz.mod6.sig Which is denoted as version 99993K.
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ty for the help, diana_coman , phf , et al
asciilifeform: ^ folx who sent in seals for the old patches, are invited to carry out press/diff/reseal and send in new, at their leisure ^
asciilifeform: aaah nm they gotta be in PATH
asciilifeform: diana_coman: vk.pl doesn't find the vpatch executable in the current dir ( this is not hard to fix tho, i'ma fix )
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 21:36 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872052 << i'ma hold off on posting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871779 item , then, so that i can link to diana_coman's vtron
asciilifeform: '20 phunphakts didja know on reddit! there was a mad d00d, tried to write a working os, despite not working at microshit or even having codeofconduct..' i picture.
phf: there's an entire archive.org of his stuff apparently. he's a hipster programmer celebrity though
asciilifeform: i could prolly get it to run on something or other, i think i still have old 'matrox' somewhere, if we ever come to where we want this.
phf: right, i think i maxed out the memory and the drive sometime in the mid 2000s, but otherwise it was "gorbushka" stock
asciilifeform wonders if anybody bothered to mirror davis's last known release
phf: i had a 300mhz amd that i brought from russia when i moved here in the 90s, but it finally gave out couple of years ago. i suspect booting templeos was one of the last things i did with it..
asciilifeform: 'FACTORS THAT AFFECT THE APPEARANCE OF A DRESS AND MAKES IT LOOK SPECIAL' etc etc
BingoBoingo: Goes with what other behavioral aspects of his neurology suggest
BingoBoingo: LoseTheOS
asciilifeform: said only 1 thing, sumthing like 'motherfucker, you stole my name'
asciilifeform: lol if only d00d had baked an actual os, instead of the run-in-vmware thingie
BingoBoingo: I took days of rumouring before the locals figured out Honored Uncle Terry's death was newsworth
a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 21:11 gabriel_laddel: rable' it is simply has no academic interests & probably spends most of their time seeking or finding sexual release (ie #tweaker nation tumblr females. Notice, very few post about meth and the read much closer to 'Ive no purpose, need to reproduce, NOW. What you like meth? OKAYSUREWHATEVERMETOOJUSTFUCKMEALREADY'). The catch however is that you've
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:41 asciilifeform: i expect to post the reground ch1-11 today; folx who read whichever chapters, will be invited to send in seals
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 21:00 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it's part and parcel of the promised write-up http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871705
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872052 << i'ma hold off on posting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871779 item , then, so that i can link to diana_coman's vtron
asciilifeform: ( the down side of it being pure-compiler internally )
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 21:19 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871787 << afaik his lisptron works to spec, and ~only exists~ because everyone harped poetic about how great lisp "would be", only to predictably return to more brackish "we use python" once someone actually made something that'd need such a wonder as the inexistent lisp machine.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872055 << the major issue with using sbcl as a scripting lang in unixland is the 3-5sec (depending on iron) revv-up time
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the lisptron was spyked
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871787 << afaik his lisptron works to spec, and ~only exists~ because everyone harped poetic about how great lisp "would be", only to predictably return to more brackish "we use python" once someone actually made something that'd need such a wonder as the inexistent lisp machine.
mircea_popescu: splendid then
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 08:10 diana_coman: fwiw I actually patched v.pl to use phf's vtools and it works absolutely fine; I guess I'll write-it up and publish the whole thing later today if nobody else does it
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, it's part and parcel of the promised write-up http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871705
BingoBoingo: If only the Graf Spee had limped to port in Buenos Aires instead of limping to Montevideo
BingoBoingo: Can't win if "try not to lose too much material" turns into "Imma impress the Kaiser by prioritizing not losing ANY material attacking"
BingoBoingo: Failure of potential actor to BRAVERY out of overweighing emperor's cautions seems like the Imperial failure mode
asciilifeform: ( until idjit 'west' came to fuck up the 'uppity yellow' )
mircea_popescu: is it worse to fail in your attempt to unify all germany around you rather than "die Kaisrin hat sich mit dem Franzosen alliiert" austrian schmucks ? or to succed only to fail a few short decades later, twice, and over the fucking failure of your admiral to BRAVERY ?
mircea_popescu: not much less, either.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> personally asciilifeform is fascinated by modern cn and wtf makes it tick << The Japs next door grew up faster than the Chinese language could protect them for a few decades. Eventually homeostatis returned because it turned out Japan was not a Prussia of Asia.
a111: Logged on 2015-06-12 14:54 mircea_popescu: Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safe
a111: Logged on 2018-04-16 14:46 mircea_popescu: buildings, however, are a very opposite attempt : the dismal resistance of air (and see also un prophete discussion of winds here) and the minimal and well understood constraint of gravity allow enough free space for design to be a thing.
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally, is the scientific name for http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-16#1799837 and http://btcbase.org/log/2015-06-12#1161937 indistinctly )
asciilifeform: it's evidently very diff animal than the zimbabwe that got its arse handed to it in '30s
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right, point being "if the baby fails to grow up the house it lived in will be taken over by rats". ie, K selection failure leads to r overwhelming it.
lobbesbot: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 20:08 spyked: LordMPofTMSR, I had no idea. and looking for mihaita dragomirescu, all I found was news items a la http://archive.is/ojKnE and other cancans. if ye know for a fact this is not made-up scandal, then I believe, but otherwise... eh.
mircea_popescu: !Qlater tell spyked to continue the thing that never ends : http://trilema.com/2012/generatia-fara/#footnote_0_34776 <<->> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1802173
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> chicago is a sort of indiana. there is no other market. << It grew as a sorta suburb of Texas/Kansas/etcetera as they place they sent their standing cattle to get canned for sale and consumption out east.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 17:10 mircea_popescu: more retarded. non-anglo women still need traditional "patriarchy" dissolved out of their stupid heads, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-06#1869904
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dunno whether the shoe fits tho, afaik china is very much a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871815 kind of affair
mircea_popescu: well, apparently i can't find it anymore. is line in log somewhere, "if you understand, like ro girls understood in the 90s, that your cunt does not belong to you, the place will stay cool for slightly longer" or somesuch.
asciilifeform: i haven't the faintest idea re just how the yellow hieroglyph folx pulled it off. but apparently they did.
mircea_popescu: the item i present would be improvement, and the costs for the improvement are externalised (ie, not borne by they benefitting)
asciilifeform: it's already to the point where 'white devil' knows automagically where not to walk so as to not step on chinese foot, if he wants to keep both feet
asciilifeform: they junkyardwars'd together a working ottoman-style org system ought of sumthing like '80s su -- sorta like we trb from prb etc
asciilifeform: they do ~whatever they like, have ~99% of modern industry inside border, and look at 'west' like we look at chimp in zoo
asciilifeform: in so far as i can tell with naked eye, 'the war' 1) already happened 2) china won 3) at ~0 cost, in the trad chinese style
mircea_popescu: should have taken the fucking buildings.
mircea_popescu: respectively, russians going over to paris, taking all the huysmans building and movingthem in voronetz reservation/park.
mircea_popescu: and i don't mean, "stop feeding", i mean chinese troops marching in new york, tearing down statue of liberty to replace with huge penis, and forcing everyone to do by-hand electronics picking for the rest of their miserable woirtheless lives.
asciilifeform: ( i think of chicago as a kind of massive open air бомжатник , from own experiences there )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the advertised market ? not particularly surprised
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how useless the anglos are. do you know that in ALL OF CHICAGO 100% of the "bitcoin market" consists of this one inept fed ?
asciilifeform: shortest ever war, all they gotta do is stop feeding
asciilifeform: what i can't wrap my head around is why nobody's mass-produced a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-11#1871212 and put an end to the whole 'digital evidence' 'rule of law' pretense circus
mircea_popescu: i fucking hope there's a war already.
mircea_popescu: "our commitment to protect our citizens from child predators, terrorists, violent extremists and other illicit actors." << o look, it expanded.
asciilifeform: 'Building upon successful hash sharing efforts to further assist in proactive removal of illicit content. ... Setting ambitious industry standards, and increasing assistance to smaller companies in developing and deploying illicit content counter-measures. Building and enhancing capabilities to counter foreign interference and disinformation. ... Artificial Intelligence-driven solutions.' << lol
asciilifeform: 'Likewise, the moment Macron finished his speech, up popped a Microsoft blog post heralding the speech as a "an important step toward peace and security in the digital world."'
asciilifeform: this of course in barrett reduction variant. ( otherwise most time spend in fz_div )
asciilifeform: and i'll add that the name 'intel format' for the SANE asm syntax, is misnomer -- i had an assembler for e.g. c64, that ate an' shat sane form, and no intel was involved in any shape
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:09 ave1: then in the inline assembly code, you do something like: mov %0, %%x0
asciilifeform: ( in sane langs afaik this distinction is quite clear right off the page )
mircea_popescu: (art here is used in the classical, and only proper sense. same cognate as "artificial", not "artistic". there is no such fucking thing as "artistic" not anymore than there's "tech industry" or "nation of africa" -- broken abstractions borne of "perceived need" of the ignorant)
mircea_popescu: everything requires maintenance. that's the difference of art : man made, requires maintenance.
asciilifeform: but i see the point
asciilifeform: i'd naively think that the iron drill would be quite exciting find for current-day carpenter
mircea_popescu: the reason "roman art treasure lie forgotten" was specifically that what the fuck is german peasant to do with it lmao.
asciilifeform: i recall thread with BingoBoingo re old iron electric drill. i see'em at flea markets routinely, nobody buys, and then the idjits go to 'home despot' shop and load up on chinesium that breaks in half after 17 uses
asciilifeform: folx cling to the old, working gear for dear life
asciilifeform: asciilifeform worked in places where 1980s e.g. mass spectrometer, and not because no budget for 1+$mil to replace it, but because nobody wants the 'upgrade' with win vista
mircea_popescu: i visited this jewish doctor here, and he looked at my retinas, with this old set he had. i asked him how old it is, and he said "maybe thirty years". "yeah, thirty years counting from the 90s ?"
asciilifeform: felt just about like you could get on the thing and fly.
mircea_popescu: and, amusingly, everyone's now a "designer", that design's so fucking dead... do you ever look at classical soviet oh of courese you do, the buran discussion right ? that item had a line to it, and you can tell from a glance it was made by humans.
mircea_popescu: the fucking line. pen on a paper.
mircea_popescu: lots of that. but really it comes down to http://trilema.com/2015/what-was-the-lomax-any-why-was-it-there-and-who-could-have-lifted-it-to-take-it-somewhere/#selection-67.0-67.13 versus https://www.amore.ng/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Leonardo-Da-Vinci-Jesus-YouTube.jpg and guess what the fuck wins.
asciilifeform: they come with pedigree papers, too, like picasso ( with the diff that typically if you buy mispedigreed picasso, you dun get jailed for 20y )
asciilifeform: asciilifeform ~decade ago went to a traditional american festivity, gigantic flea market where small arms bought and sold in open air. found it interesting that the most valuable wares were not even antiques in the usual sense, of century+, but 1970s-80s : apparently the 'peak' of the tech, modern calibers and 0 zamac.
mircea_popescu: wheel -- turns -- ALWAYS THE SAME WAY. exept sameness visible only retrospectively.
mircea_popescu: funnily enough, a) he thought he had found "the west indies" and b) he landed on some skirting islands, never found mainland.
mircea_popescu: an obscure man named something or the other sorta-landed on the shore of crypto a few years ago.
mircea_popescu: either that or 1492 and cinquecento about to turn in
asciilifeform: seems that we're already in 'late rome' in re 'best tech lives at antique shop', just about across the board
mircea_popescu: some guys draw correct lines, that's all there is to it.
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as an incorrect line -- proven by the fact that the overwhelmingly vast majority of them are.
mircea_popescu: "fuck you, i'll burn your fambly in da vinci's oven to heat him while he draws another"
mircea_popescu: "but mp, why do you think these squigglies are worth millions, there's not even color on them"
mircea_popescu: the problem of art is that the freehand line is the hardest thing i nthe world. put pen to paper, and draw it, and see.
mircea_popescu: nfi, but i'm not even discussing that. i am discussing THE LINE
mircea_popescu: i'd rather have bayernische body hammered back into an approximation of its original, genotypic shape, than mexican body as its mom made it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes. this is the fucking problem, if faced with the choice of the crashed bmw or the new toyota i'd still buy and fix the crashed bmw.
mircea_popescu: (and this, for the record, is also why i think very little of eg pete_dushenski's private committments : http://trilema.com/2015/very-bad-things/#selection-37.0-37.32 female misbehaviour exists ~specifically~ and strictly and only because they're covering up for this fundamental "between boys and walls daddy chose walls, don't upset him".
asciilifeform: seems that mircea_popescu still prefers the anglo chix as raw material in refinery tho
mircea_popescu: so in a very specific, and very purple and meaty sense, the moronic lartinos are way the fuck ahead of the moronic anglos.
mircea_popescu: w, nevertheless, NEVERTHELESS!!!! they are way ahead of the anglotarded chicks who http://trilema.com/2018/an-examination-of-conflict/ ie try to enforce "the elders". oh, john, daddy said "sit down, sit down, sit down you're rocking the boat", we'd better sit down!!!
mircea_popescu: i and my slaves might laugh at stupid local girlies, "20 in her mom's tow" and at stupid 50yos who are trying to ~now~ be slutty, as if time somehow waited for them to take the 35 years they "needed" to achieve 35 months' worth of intellectual maturation. but as troglodyte as http://trilema.com/2017/the-day-of-failure-trilemma/#selection-423.0-423.517 readily marks all of latino morons in the eyes of any euro whore i ever kne
asciilifeform: i guess could rewrite the eqn into the q of whether people are actually smarter than prikoke the pig, or no
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's q wasn't 'whether 4th reich is ripe for the visigoths', seems pretty clear that it is. but whether the entire cycle, where manchu horsemen , 'free and manly' , invade, then turn into fat and idjit empress cixi, is escapable or not
mircea_popescu: consequently, boys gotta be bois lest they break down the walls. and that was that for anglo culture.
mircea_popescu: consequently, boys gotta be boys lest they break down the walls. and that was that for anglo culture.
mircea_popescu: change, objective and unyielding, of the wheel coming cycle and the up being now down and the shoe on the other foot, "the elders" sat and thought for a half second and decided between boys and walls they'd rather have the walls.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the whole fucking point of http://trilema.com/2012/anonimity-or-the-urban-versus-rural-dispute/ (especially as coupled with http://trilema.com/2015/strategy-for-the-antisocial-struggle/ ) is that the world has substantially changed, and there is ~no further win~ to be had from cityism, and a WHOLE lot of cost to be eaten. which is ~the fucking point~ of http://trilema.com/2017/the-world-has-changed/ : given the
asciilifeform: 'city' seems to inescapably produce huge qty of such 'fouling'. i find interesting the q of what is 'carnot efficiency' of city, what if anyffing worx to keep down the waste product ( of the most toxic type -- bipedal )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you recall ancient trilema piece , about some derp working in (iirc) google, where you had 'if industry were a rifle, he'd be the fouling on the barrel' ?
mircea_popescu: it's a matter of columnae lucum, whereby ~THIS~, and this and only this and this only is the epitome, and everyone around is closer or further to that epitome, and at the outskirts it becomes unclear if there's even a relation at all or not.
mircea_popescu: (hey, you can't prove it isn't a party!!!) and other such http://trilema.com/2011/voi-ce-ati-facut-in-viata-asta-ba/#selection-119.375-119.430 nonsense.
mircea_popescu: anyway, but the important point can't be overstated enough. it's not a matter of terra-ad-limine, whereby the county is from this limit to that limit to that other limit, and as long as you're not past the limits therefore you're inside and thereby anjie is "in tech" (hey, you can't prove she's out, right ? therefore she;s in ?) and also thereby http://trilema.com/2012/generatia-fara/#selection-145.61-145.72 stands as a party
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 17:32 mircea_popescu: circero's certainly was, man had the diseased of comfortable middle class men.
asciilifeform: i suspect that a good chunk of the 'organizational win' from cityism can be cut away from the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871872 , to interesting result
asciilifeform: selective tech adoption is imho a fascinating thing. even the amerinds, for all their miswired heads, picked up horse and rifle and carried on 300+ yrs past their expiration date. ( picture if they had also had radio ! )
mircea_popescu: "why does he ?" "because maybe they're doing it right, and that's fucking binding, on the entire world."
asciilifeform: ( where cultivate poppy with ~barehands and the only 'modern' tech held in any esteem is kalash )
asciilifeform: there's definitely factual substance to the archetype of 'farmer ready to pick up weapon and defend his not-needing-the-city-for-anyffing', hence the festivities in '20s ru re tambov rebellion ( where the reds pretty much brought back ivan iv's methods, incl. mass impalement ) to put down
mircea_popescu: and that's yet another fine example, see ? french men go to louisiana, produce us south a century later. dutch men go to transvaal, produce south africa a century later.
mircea_popescu: circero's certainly was, man had the diseased of comfortable middle class men.
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 17:24 mircea_popescu: all latin classicity bemoans the loss of agricultural tradition, their hightly regarded source of intelligence and manliness.
asciilifeform: i do suspect that http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871847 was 'admiration from a distance' rather than factual tho. sorta like marie antoinette's milkmaid career.
mircea_popescu: that there's a bunch of moronic kids over at hot topic in the mall doing "the industry" of things men do... what the fuck of it ?
mircea_popescu: it was proposed he was a fucking farmer, in the proper and only sense, like fucking carlyle. farming is a thing BECAUSE cincinnatus farfmed, and bdsm is a thing because MP bdsm's.
asciilifeform: then sure
mircea_popescu: but it wasn't proposed he's "typical" or "normal" or in any way reduce his person to some kind of http://trilema.com/2016/the-herd-of-independent-minds-or-has-the-avantgarde-its-own-mass-culture/#selection-87.551-87.706 falsity. when i call my slave "a slave" i do not by any possible read propose that "she has some kind of slave nature" like nail polish or something.
mircea_popescu: your whole argument is essentially seinfeld's "oh, my parents having sex... i dunno... i haven't seen it... as far as i know they could maybe be just really, REALLY good friends!"
mircea_popescu: history doesn't exist because grandchildren wanked it in the bed at night ; history exists because grandfathers fucked grandmothers.
mircea_popescu: diogenes pushed his tub, cincinnatus ploughed his field, i... i dunno, took weird pictures of myself put them on trilema.
asciilifeform: there's a reason he's a quasi-mythical figure, tho, like diogen
mircea_popescu: sounds exactly like 1700s pennsylvania. and the reason it does is because it is.
mircea_popescu: no, i believe the story is factual. man was out ploughing, with own two hands, senate legati came to talk to him, asked him to go put his toga on.
mircea_popescu: all latin classicity bemoans the loss of agricultural tradition, their hightly regarded source of intelligence and manliness.
mircea_popescu: not originally. the might as well as the power of the republic was ~entirely~ agricultural. cincinnatus is not famous for "turning down the purple", but for ~turning down the purple to go back to ploughing."!
asciilifeform: didn't they staff it mostly with zeks tho
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not really. the romans were agricultural folk, just as much as the alwa or the indians making wootz steel.
mircea_popescu: and hence "Pangloss was professor of metaphysico-theologico-cosmolo-nigology. He proved admirably that there is no effect without a cause, and that, in this best of all possible worlds, the Baron's castle was the most magnificent of castles, and his lady the best of all possible Baronesses."
mircea_popescu: it's not agriculture per se. it's not the land, it's that the land both fosters and nurtures a certain mindset among those troding upon it. too much "all is well" and way the fuck too much "nothing could ever change" and so on. hence, "my mom's just as good a master as could ever be had!" and hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-12#1871537 : in rural environs kids too dumb to find their own fucking holes on their own fucking
mircea_popescu: the reason "all good things flow to the city" is, and for 3k years has been, "i'd rather hang out with thieves than with farmers holy shit you lot are moronic. really, go to bed at 5pm ?"
mircea_popescu: precisely. but it is not ~with agriculture~. it's with... the people involved in agriculture!
mircea_popescu: n the south if you're not stupid.)
mircea_popescu: (a matter little discussed in the abundant "literature" was the implicit brain drain southern economy imposed on southern us. ie, intelligent boys in the newyork-london sphere migrated rather towards new york (hence all the jews, at the time monopolists of intelligence, hence the hatred but different line all that) ; whereas intelligent kids on the st louis-paris line migrated rather to paris. because nothing the fuck to do i
mircea_popescu: and even then
asciilifeform: i dun see how it could possibly be worth the effort, lacking cotton for'em to pick
mircea_popescu: fact of the matter is i need 1800s style southern us slaves like i need genital warts.
mircea_popescu: i make a lot of noise about dungeons and chains and whips and etc ; but it is a kind of a society game. i am not prepared, neither mentally nor for that matter materially, to ~actually~ apply all that. because yes, the convertor exists, kidnap among the moronic 3bn, but i mean literally, not play-pretendingly, self-delivered "kidnaps", and then torture them into being enslaved orcs rather than plain orcs.
asciilifeform: ( relatedly, i vaguely recall from some old lit that the turks amused themselves by cauterizing beheadee's stump to see if he can be made to chicken, i.e. not bleed out right off, but dun recall source or whether it worked )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, it's latino "culture" so to speak, tho it has entirely nothing to do with culture, much like "they fuck mud with sticks all day" isn't "african industry", it's just african nothing.
mircea_popescu: every civilised female has the same reaction, utter disbelief, "omfg i'd have been too ashamed to do this at 15"
mircea_popescu: do you realise girls here are ~so fucking moronic~ they will hang out with their mothers IN THEIR TWENTIES ?
asciilifeform: does seem like 'nature abhors vacuum' tho, the usa folx got reformatted heads but immediately filled up with ???.
mircea_popescu: the choice is literally "this ~half bn or so of english speakers, who have been so neglected as children as to practically emulate classical africans" or else "these ~3bn women, so fucken retarded they will die in http://trilema.com/2017/in-scams-today-disk-less-terminal-sa-dba-laesquinadelamazmorra/#footnote_3_72501 trap without batting an eyelash).
a111: Logged on 2018-11-06 18:12 mircea_popescu: the whole usgistan thing is a ~necessary~ solvent for the otherwise even-more-imbecile "nation of kings" bullshit.
mircea_popescu: more retarded. non-anglo women still need traditional "patriarchy" dissolved out of their stupid heads, as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-06#1869904
mircea_popescu: "hey fellow africans, i wonder what those strange forms in the mists across the ocean might be" "that's just the way the horizon's painted, brother joshuah"
asciilifeform: gotta wonder what they're using for a terminal
asciilifeform: lol another 1 of those !
mircea_popescu: PrincessVH "It's due to the fact that your title of the message has been cut in half and the only part that is readable is "How about you drop whatever it is you're d..."" LordMPofTMSR "Intelligence is specifically this (seemingly "magical") ability to find one's way out of a paper bag."
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the lulz farms, PrincessVH 25F Princess "Not kidding about what?" LordMPofTMSR "Not the sharpest tool in the shed, I take it."
asciilifeform: btw phf i am enjoying your new logtron feature, with the paste snapshot
asciilifeform: and that gpg1/2ism has 0 to do with the eggog ( i removed the custom gpg invocation line to 0 effect )
asciilifeform: btw i confirmed that phf's v98 ( when patched to remove the subkey handler thing ) successfully presses ch1-11, with bitwise-correct results ( compared with classic vtron )
asciilifeform: ( has ~nonexistent error handling; and misbehaves on oddly shaped trees, this is plentifully described in the l0gz )
asciilifeform: it defo should not be considered 'the' vtron.
phf: v.py unfortunately requires a bunch of work (unrelated to yesterday's issue), it was very much a poc, and i suspect you and i are the only people who actively use(d) it
asciilifeform: i'd like to be able to put a link in the 'ffa regrind' article, 'and you can press it with ~this~'
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 14:21 asciilifeform: when i started ffa, i did not plan to bake any asm speedups at all. but there's 2 reasons to do it, eventually : one is that on e.g. x86/x64, getting the upper half of a word-sized multiplication, without asm, takes ~four~ MULs plus a buncha additions : http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/w_mul__adb.htm#95_14
asciilifeform: btw http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871763 is somewhat misleading, let's correct : this is the case on ALL known archs, gcc is retarded and does not supply a ready-baked inline word x word mul function
asciilifeform: ( i still gotta come up with a fix for the comment box on my www; until then , i'll take seals via p.bvulpes.com etc )
asciilifeform: i expect to post the reground ch1-11 today; folx who read whichever chapters, will be invited to send in seals
asciilifeform: fwiw i worked around last night's ugh in phf's variant, but i'd much rather use a properly polished item than my kludge
asciilifeform: it got enuff battlefield test that he ironed out afaik all the significant bugs
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 08:10 diana_coman: fwiw I actually patched v.pl to use phf's vtools and it works absolutely fine; I guess I'll write-it up and publish the whole thing later today if nobody else does it
asciilifeform: ( scroll to the bloody leg illustration )
ave1: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/hypertext/ch11/w_mul__adb.htm#33_13, this is the egyptian mul?