asciilifeform: go and 'dismount the tiger without being eaten'
asciilifeform: by the time these things changed - he was fully occupied in operating an obvious chumpatron
asciilifeform: decimation: nope. resources of the time.
decimation: seems like if the stuff were useful, he would have out googled google before google googled.
asciilifeform: same as the traveler thing
decimation: the '3d vlsi design' part is interesting
asciilifeform: until the real 'lenat leak' perhaps one day.
gribble: Douglas Lenat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Lenat>; Cyc - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyc>; Cycorp | Home of smarter solutions: <http://www.cyc.com/>
asciilifeform: even leaves open the interpretations 'genius scammer' or 'scamming genius.'
asciilifeform: rll-1 supplement does not settle the 'scammer or genius' question, perhaps surprisingly.
asciilifeform: scammer: it never worked really, he won the 'traveller' tourney using his brain plus a few automated routines
asciilifeform: he never published the source of 'eurisko'. each hypothesis provides an explanation for why.
asciilifeform: the schoolbook telling of the 'eurisko' project - open an encyclopaedia of computing, traditionally it is mentioned as a seminal work - suggests this.
asciilifeform: another - where he was onto something.
asciilifeform: (the facts actually favour this hypothesis. he collected $billions for 'cyc' project, never showed any useful result.)
decimation: usg asks so many questions, doesn't understand the answers...
asciilifeform: it feeds a gigantic class of folks, some of whom could conceivably be of some use, most go back to home country after they had enough.
asciilifeform: the real lol is that i had to write a report, quite like this one, when my contract was ending.
decimation: one wonders how many other useful reports lie mouldering in some gov't bin, unscanned
decimation: indeed, 'markov chain in the brain' is quite powerful at correcting errors
asciilifeform: lucky that the text is readable at all.
asciilifeform: and the original was probably put on record as a paper report, as well.
asciilifeform: another - my old lab's scanner.
asciilifeform: they mailed - paper.
asciilifeform: one - their end
decimation: some idiot intern did the scanning
asciilifeform: decimation: i tried, back in the day, was not impressed with result.
asciilifeform: and might be interesting to compare the dtic-online version to mine.
asciilifeform: used to be, these were just catalogue #s.
asciilifeform: (where do you think i got them)
decimation: sometimes they are scanned, sometimes not :)
asciilifeform: perhaps because i ordered them scanned...
asciilifeform: lol, looks like they posted it, too
decimation: ascii I have bad news. The ones with "ADA" numbers have already been published on the internet by usg: http://www.dtic.mil/docs/citations/ADA096510
decimation: obligatory: http://acrossdifficultcountry.blogspot.com/2009/05/far-out-space-nuts.html << "“We must also go there and say: ‘What are you people doing up here?’”"
decimation: yeah :( too bad the warez only ocr pdf
asciilifeform: decimation: and 1/10 the render speed on small cpu
asciilifeform: presumably (2) then (1)
asciilifeform: decimation: lol << laugh, but if these folks had balls, they'd be stereotypically dangerous loons
decimation: ascii hopefully we can share the hard-ai-god's gasenwagen
mats_cd03: run through ocr for the rest of us, eh?
decimation: you think they are cut from ceramic blank?
asciilifeform: decimation: i can only dream of them.
decimation: heh I guess it makes sense. elsewhere in the link, there are pictures of the ceramic 'screw pumps' that are supposedly of higher quality
decimation: ah so you are making tubes that screw together, not 'negative space' in the block like your link illustrated
decimation: asciilifeform: I was thinking about your piston pump today - how do you craft it with all the 'hidden' holes? In two halves? Casting?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller> i think i learn more in this channel than i ever did in school << im sure most do.
penguirker: New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/
decimation: ascii do you 'pack-rat' information on the internet? I find I am caching more and more these days
asciilifeform: please don't kill the poor bugger
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: glassing is the wholesale production of borosilicate glass out of the landscape as the side effect of a runaway nuclear reaction. << this is a great definition
decimation: subtle nonlinearities in radio systems are regularly measured with the 'two-tone test'
decimation: if the signal passes through a channel that is not linear-time-invariant, one will see intermodulation products arise
asciilifeform: decimation: if beam hits a rectifier, energy is absorbed instead of reflected or transmitted to other side of obstacle.
asciilifeform: should be shat out by the time i'm done reading 'hour of reckoning'
kakobrekla: did you get the torrent up ascii?
mircea_popescu: glassing is the wholesale production of borosilicate glass out of the landscape as the side effect of a runaway nuclear reaction.
mats_cd03: are we on the same page? nuclear detonation.
kakobrekla: the torrent file?
assbot: The Hour Of Reckoning pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-hour-of-reckoning/ asciilifeform <
thestringpuller: someone actually used the term "glassing"
mats_cd03: some days i think about whether someone will end up glassing mecca
mats_cd03: i should do a bet about green attacks before end of the year
gribble: Upload - Speedy Share - upload your files here: <http://www.speedyshare.com/>; Free large file hosting. Send big files the easy way!: <https://www.sendspace.com/>; WeTransfer: <https://www.wetransfer.com/>
mats_cd03: pricing of the nonlinear junction detector looks quite high. is there a miser's version somewhere? made in a sweatshop perhaps?
kakobrekla: doesnt work - the link
mircea_popescu: i got the space, just, some derpy kid's idea of ai will prolly be to try and "loic" it
mircea_popescu: what's the largest filesize ?
mircea_popescu: the guy wrote 100 mn words ?!
asciilifeform: now we can finally destroy the universe by enabling any kid to build rogue ai.
asciilifeform: in response to years of prodding from various folks, and mircea_popescu reminding me that 'lesswrong' existed, i took an hour or so to digitize the old douglas lenat papers. now need a place to host
penguirker: New blog post: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/09/25/ncaa-football-fuck-it-week-5/
JuliaTourianski: i used to make cheese at home all the time. what happened to me?
mircea_popescu: sapho lived off of herding greek gals and selling the diary.
mircea_popescu: peterl women were the goats.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well... Testicles was a great warrior in the Classical period...
JuliaTourianski: OMG where are all the homos of btc? bitcoin is homophobic. must write article for tumblr
JuliaTourianski: the juice boxes ARE making you gay boys.
BingoBoingo: JuliaTourianski: don;t you worry boys, xenoestrogen & phytoestrogen will get you << You know one of the steps involved in maturing sperm cells in the testicals involves... converting testosterone to estrogen!
JuliaTourianski: +thestringpuller no mike dice
thestringpuller: JuliaTourianski: i bet the dude rocks out to katy perry in the shower. << If you're talking about Drake, I think this is confirmed...
JuliaTourianski: the dated water filter - but it looks empowering
peterl: I still drink out of the hose with my kids if outside.
JuliaTourianski: do they still have water bars?
JuliaTourianski: avian is what the new world order drinks
ben_vulpes: and nobody's allowed in the bull run
ben_vulpes: in this town we flush whole reservoirs when someone pees in them
mircea_popescu: i wonder how long before the standard moves from "potable water" to "pristine water"
thestringpuller: by drake or whoever the fuck
thestringpuller: every time I see the word fancy
mircea_popescu: which is a superlative idiomatic i've just created for the occasion.
mircea_popescu: actually it's a little jewel, just a bit of cruft here and there.
mircea_popescu: "Any alteration from the typical human brain wave pattern of the occupants of a Detector-equipped ship would boost the indicator around the dial. Even a bad dream or a case of indigestion would jar it." || "The unmoving dials." jesus pick one.
mircea_popescu: "What armor is there against thought? How do you dodge a wavelength?" << meh. why ruin it ? wavelength is not thought, and moreover easily armored against.
mircea_popescu: the premise is not bad.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this partially why he was revered in the soviet world, where he in fact died (on tour) a few years ago.
mircea_popescu: such bad writing. if something is a first then it can't be "standard procedure"
mircea_popescu: "Richard Everset and C. R. Jones had gone on the first interstellar flight. They had found an inhabited planet in the region of Vega. The rest was standard procedure."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was not limited to the loltron. plenty of 'humans' made excuses.
mircea_popescu: heck, it'll be tough to argue that they're someone at all, even.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks. << "everyone" ? the us agitprop (calling itslef "mainstream media") is not everyone just like tardstalk.org is not everyone in bitcoin.
asciilifeform: these appear to be wheel hubs.
assbot: The Power of Friction - YouTube
gribble: Nonlinear junction detector - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nonlinear_junction_detector>; REI ORION 2.4 Non-Linear Junction Detector: <http://www.research-electronics.com/cgi-bin/main.cgi?action=viewprod&ct=products&pct=ORION%202.4&num=ORION%202.4>; NLJD - Non Linear Junction Detector Tutorial - Granite Island Group: (1 more message)
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2014 14:17:39; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu, others: re: electronics-sniffing dog << distraction psyop. in real life, hidden electronics are found with a nonlinear junction detector.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks. << just because puppets talking "ignore" doesn't mean everyone ignores
pete_dushenski: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-09-23/a-police-dog-for-the-digital-age-she-can-smell-the-usb-drive-you-re-hiding.html
pete_dushenski: looks like asciilifeform rectothermal scan will be… a dog:
pete_dushenski: <mircea_popescu> lord norwich is the english authority on venice << merci!
asciilifeform: apple << wtf is the point of 'canary' if everyone ignores, makes up justifications, when it croaks.
ThickAsThieves: had some decent plans back when there were more exchanges
ThickAsThieves: kako, I owned coinflow in the end
BingoBoingo: Eh, the new Apple stuff seems to have a bunch of built in side channels to keep syncing the device with the desktop easy
ben_vulpes: the "let me fuck your shit up" switch must be enabled.
assbot: Breaking: FBI Director says the bureau is talking to Apple and Google about new encryption settings. Story to come.
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/dannyyadron/status/515205493623898112 << Guess the apple warrant canary disappeared because... warrant
ben_vulpes: if these deals come through, i'm going to have such sweet projects lined up
fluffypony: before announcing it they should at least have a logo contest
mircea_popescu: <fluffypony> I can't take these bugs seriously without a logo and an info site << these bugs got no ux!
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user coinflow: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=coinflow | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=coinflow | Rated since: never
fluffypony: I can't take these bugs seriously without a logo and an info site
fluffypony: oh I see we're calling the Bash bug "ShellShock" now
asciilifeform: except the one where a whale sells hundreds of bitcoins << and your machine isn't buying cheapo coin in its wake?
BingoBoingo: Come on, real trading insight comes from the gut!
mircea_popescu: what could the tiger possibly do.
Darkstone1: except the one where a whale sells hundreds of bitcoins on all the exchanges where i'm active. But that probably a slim chance.
mircea_popescu: is this the famous last words competition ?
mircea_popescu: really the proposition of making a living with trading bots is the response of the engineer who confronted with the fundamental impossibility of making money picking stocks decides to write a hard ai to do it.
ThickAsThieves: another sign that chinese exchanges are all bots/washing, the books are always balanced
asciilifeform: to continue the oscillator analogy: nitwits running simple bots will show up as 'line spectra'.
ThickAsThieves: <+kakobrekla> (or maybe im just imagining) /// it wouldnt be ta otherwise
asciilifeform: berndj-blackout: nope. to run with the mechanical analogy, the system has a certain amount of 'dampening'.
asciilifeform: other people - who have hammer - should be presumed to have worked on it, as well.
mircea_popescu: Darkstone1 the point was, "how to build gt finesse bots"
asciilifeform: in fact, even if you do not know the actual strategies - you can discover the system's 'resonances' by repeated hammer blows.
Darkstone1: And i am not an neobee bagholder. I sold everything after the crash and gained +50%.
mircea_popescu: Darkstone1 a okay then
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you might not be the only one.
asciilifeform: then you can, if your 'hammer' (ability to move price) is large enough, manipulate.
asciilifeform: and you know what the thresholds are
mircea_popescu: Darkstone1 http://trilema.com/2014/the-psychology-of-the-bagholder/ read that try again ?
Darkstone1: asciilifeform: i can partialy agree on that. But if i do not have an game-theory fitness ass raping bot. I tried but failed.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony just the video :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well marketing is game theoretical finesse rape of other bots. except for some reason other bots insist on calling them people.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: are their English subs on that one at least?
fluffypony: especially people who think they've "invested" in a cryptocurrency because they bought some
asciilifeform: (in fact, i suspect that any bot whose strategy is not a game-theoretical-finesse-rape of other bots - is quite useless)
fluffypony: same as the delusion of being an "investor"
mircea_popescu: if what the delusion of being a "trader" costs is 10 bucks, plenty of takers.
asciilifeform: diametric: public trade bots are worthless << not only this; but any bot whose strategy is exactly known to others - is useless.
berndj-blackout: thanks mircea_popescu - just figuring out the cloak&dagger stuff :)
Darkstone1: (totaly idiotic platform by the way...)
punkman: Darkstone1: no I just meant they'll never get to handle any serious amount of BTC
Darkstone1: punkpan: i use doubles. It's bad, i know. But it does not really matter as most exchanges send you the amounts in json floats anyway..
mircea_popescu: <Darkstone1> but my parther thinks that selling the thing with source code is useless. << so let the partner run it'
punkman: Darkstone1: yeah I doubt any of the hosted tradebots handle integer BTC amounts
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> not equating the two, just saying similar tone. << we are kinda inhaviting a cartoon world atm
mircea_popescu: we know the name of the rose verse to come from bernardo of cluny, 1000 years ago. but keeping track who shat in the repos is too hard over two decades.
mike_c: hm, i suppose the average teenager is.. 16?
Darkstone1: perhaps opinions of the masses differ.. but there is no way i'm going to insert my API keys in an online platform.
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> 20 year old bug, good luck figuring out author. <<< right, because nothing ever can be documented past the lifespan of the average teenager.
Darkstone1: I think there are too many -bad- platforms where people can put in their own stratety already.
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform is just unendingly entertained that вредители are allowed to not only keep living, but contributing code to whatever. <<< not quite whatever. currently the fashionable idiocies du jour still hold currency with the crowd, that "not the man, but what he's saying" and "we're all equal" and similar socialisms. they won't last the evening.
BingoBoingo: <Darkstone1> can i ask you guys a question? I have an relatively succesfull trading bot (multi-digit bitcoin gain since the beginning of this year) but i an starting to lose intrest in further development. << Sounds like keeping it in your pocket until it interests you again may be the best option
mike_c: the only thing worthwhile is the automation. make it easy for non-programmers to put in their own methodologies.
punkman: Darkstone1, that's where the WoT helps
Darkstone1: it will just end up somewhere in the internet next week.
Darkstone1: that i you shouldn't buy anything that you can't inspect the source for i can certainly agree with.
diametric: and i'd never run a trade bot i couldn't inspect the source for.
Darkstone1: One of the questions i've been unable to answer is weither should sell the source code or only the product.
Darkstone1: it certainly works, but as i said, i'm starting to lose intrest in further development. And i have a full-time job to attend to.
Darkstone1: I'm strugging in what the best way to 'commercialize' this thing is.
Darkstone1: can i ask you guys a question? I have an relatively succesfull trading bot (multi-digit bitcoin gain since the beginning of this year) but i an starting to lose intrest in further development.
thestringpuller: not equating the two, just saying similar tone.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay. << This sounded like a cartoon. Like the Family Guy cut away where the dude throws him a parachute with an anvil in it and says, "That one is probably okay"
asciilifeform: easier, in some cases, then modern piles of shit with 1000 authors
asciilifeform: and still it was paraded as 'bug' - disembodied 'bug', that was placed there by the hand of god, or whatever
atcbot: >> No data returned from CoinMiner.net << [PityThePool Hashrate]: 102.62 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.51 TH/s [P2P Hashrate]: 1.70 TH/s
mircea_popescu: Transcript for 24-09-2014, 1337 lines <<< we've done it, everyone. i hereby call the end of the #b-a party. thanks for all the lines, it's been a hoot etc!
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud: the joys of people making money off of memes << nah, the hodl stuff is sa folk getting bitter butthurt at bitcoin's continued existence.
mircea_popescu: lobbes: and the paper wasn't even peer reviewed << in that guy's case, peers can be a misnomer :p
mircea_popescu: certainly right there.
mike_c: if you start with security in mind, then audits can be useful process during development.
mircea_popescu: in a security environment, security is auditable provided the comittment to security is not compromised in order to listen to some ziggler impersonator.
mircea_popescu: it is impossible if one allows runaway complexity for "ux" and other idiotic reasons. but then again so is any scenario of chasing two rabbits.
rithm: fuzz the captcha!
asciilifeform: for human body, death is the unambiguous spec
mircea_popescu: doctors have been doing ok auditing the human body w/o any spec for a while now.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: is there a trustworthy wot-signed document of an auditor saying any version of bitcoin is safe? << the most there is is me going on the record that .6.* is probably okay.
mircea_popescu: they have a specially printed bag
mircea_popescu: their card has nothing but their name on it, which is kinda generic. nothing else. the boxes have NOTHING. no phone. no address. no website. nothing whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: so i just got totally outcarded. i find this nice chocolatier, buy three pounds of mixed chocolates in three boxes, ask for their card, and leave.
Naphex: mike_c: check is simple cause bash shouldn't run anything in the env
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: I was just thinking the same thing
mircea_popescu: Naphex no thaths the 6271 one
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall how self-proclaimed (or accused...) alchemists were treated. do you mean to say that, if they were put through the right punishments, they would have discovered neutron bombardment synthesis of Au at economical price?
nubbins`: debian = ubuntu in the sense that england = usa
kuzetsa: ubuntu dragged their backside too
gribble: CVE-2014-7169: Bash Fix Incomplete, Still Exploitable | Hacker News: <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8365158>; What is the CVE-2014-6271 bash vulnerability, and how do I fix it?: <http://askubuntu.com/questions/528101/what-is-the-cve-2014-6271-bash-vulnerability-and-how-do-i-fix-it>; (CVE-2014-6271) bug introduced, and what is the patch that fully: (1 more message)
rithm: then it'll get fun
kuzetsa: the initial "fix" was for a parsing flaw described in CVE-2014-6271 (shellshock) which a lot of distros patched but then didn't get CVE-2014-7169 as well (a different type of issue with bash)
mircea_popescu: rather than dedicating yourself to being friends with idiots, dedicate yourself to being enemitous to idiots.
mircea_popescu: bounce: plenty money hiring people to do the reading and lots of lawyers to paper over the obvious problems with threats of large fines << alternatively skip the lawyers thing and hurt people that fuck up.
mircea_popescu: that is the thing. they only seem complex to the lazy and to the stupidly vain. but otherwise, the mechanisms are damned simple.
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: there's 2 different patches
asciilifeform: this is the fundamental reason why 'software sucks'
asciilifeform: unless you can actually build 'borg' that share a mind, rather than just army or clan, the organization cannot understand mechanisms too large for the cleverest member to understand. for any useful value of 'understand.'
mircea_popescu: Naphex wasn't the patch bad ?
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves: i often think about that, how the hell can someone who cannot/willnot read code, ever be the steward of a software project safely? <<< you know i don't actually read all that much code at all. i guess i could, more or less, but i wouldn't trust myself to understand it. by which i don't mean "what it does", but i do mean "what we can absolutely say about this program"
asciilifeform: but the analogy falls apart here. what we have, in organization, is cray's 1024 chickens.
Naphex: rithm: even if you're spam filter is roll your own, if SUBJECT gets passed in Env along the pipeline, and if on the pipeline something hits /bin/sh / /bin/bash it will run
kuzetsa: mike_c: I'm certain that the public-internet-facing daemons on the system in question don't pass stuff around using environment variables
asciilifeform: one can chop heads if job is not done, but if it isn't doable given the available constraints - you just end with a tall pile of heads
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is where you're wrong. because consider, what is your definition of "human mind" ? could you in fact have two human minds that are identically the same one mind for this purpose ? turns out you can, it's the most important field of research of the vory.
Naphex: mike_c: no, you can change env regardless, its just that if bash interpets the env it runs
rithm: my testing alligns with what Naphex just said about authentication
Naphex: and pass it around, if corrupted env hits bash it runs and the end
asciilifeform: until the entire machine stack (chemical, electronic, os, etc) fits in a human mind - doesn't have to be that of alcoholic bum off the street, could be six people alive - then you have a system a reasonable man will sign his life under.
kuzetsa: Naphex: I don't have any mail daemon on that particular system either
Naphex: kuzetsa: mail servers will pass through env as well, on the pipeline while filtering them mails
mircea_popescu: if the process of figuring out what is safe worked, we wouldn't have the bug in the first place.
Naphex: but it should be no problem unless thet env hits apache
mircea_popescu: mike_c notice how little beating is actually needed, among civilised adults that interiorise the wot model.
kuzetsa: mircea_popescu: but... I don't have any cgi on the httpd, nor are any of the other daemons the sort which use environment variables to pass stuff around (using bash or otherwise)
mike_c: if i wrote a new btc wallet (or managed development thereof), it would be secure for fear of above methods
mike_c: these methods (beating, wot, etc) could be applied to new software