bounce: <RagnarDanneskjol> essentially unrelated to aml I believe. << no, it is not. you don't get to exclude actions taken by non-government actors because of the rules because they're not government actors.
adlai: looks like without this, the SEC wasn't taking into account unexecuted offers, which is kinda laughable if they're trying to detect/prevent "manipulation"
adlai: "The system, akin to an X-ray machine for the stock market" Here we see the useless metaphor in its natural habitat, a NYtimes article
RagnarDanneskjol: rus, entirely harmful for the host
RagnarDanneskjol: essentially unrelated to aml I believe. account closure without legal action is just business discretion/risk mgmt. Of course regs preempt cautionary' corporate policies if thats what you mean. back to the original question, its all positive for regulators/prosecutors, all negative for account holders. virus is possibly a good analogy- its all warm, positive, and welcoming for the vi
bounce: that's much too narrow. people getting their accounts shut down because too much bother is also an effect of these same regulations.
RagnarDanneskjol: the definition for ML is fairly straight forward - like an arrow, it either hits a target or doesnt depending on archer's accuracy. what you're talking about there is the proficiency of individual arbiters weighing decisions to execute warrants.. I'd guess their accuracy varies rather widely
bounce: that at least gives you an idea of its visible effects, which isn't the whole picture but at least is a start
bounce: if there's no sure-fire way then perhaps the whole idea of combating needs to be scrapped. if that isn't the case, you can look at what effects the regs have and tally incidents they have an influence on, discerning "this was money laundering" and "this wasn't", tally separately
bounce: "combat money laundering" -- what is money laundering and (leaving aside for the moment why it would need combating) how exactly do you discern when something is money laundering or not.
bounce: then look at what they're supposed to do, like look at the language used to introduce the regs.
RagnarDanneskjol: hmm, I actually couldn't comprehend how to gauge the proficiency of kyc/aml, so was trying to help you clarify for me
RagnarDanneskjol: the 'stated purpose could only be trolling for unauthorized activity. it would be the same as efficiency/efficancy of any other surveillance - its much better than nothing but not as good as they'd like. there would simply be all negatives for one party, all positives for the other
bounce: those civil forfeitures for people "structuring" their deposits so their bank has less paperwork to do is clearly an effect but not, as far as I know anyway, a publicly stated purpose of the reporting rules
bounce: then you tally the side effecets and perhaps you can make a nice little table with false and true positives and negatives perhaps
bounce: the stated purpose might be a good start
bounce: so, is there any data anywhere of the efficacy and efficiency of KYC and AML reg implementations?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller so look straight in buffett's letters.
cazalla: thestringpuller, he got circumcised
assbot: Carders Cashing Out Into Bitcoin/Cash Via Coinbase & Others | Qntra.net
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Is that the original fan?
BingoBoingo: It's been a few days since my fan made the angry bees noise.
BingoBoingo: Why would I spill the precious? Also not much of a beer person. Prefer my drink closer in composition to what would be used to clean it anyways
undata: cigs are the natural enemy of computer fans
BingoBoingo: I take this one out to the garage to smoke cigarettes
BingoBoingo: undata: I had to get the screen replaced on this one under warranty << My 4 yo Thinkpad will probably be getting its third fan soon.
undata: I had to get the screen replaced on this one under warranty
undata: IBM still does the US "support"
mircea_popescu: actually i think lenovo was manufacturing them anyway
mircea_popescu: fans are so quiet the street's louder at 1 am.
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform looks forward to the possibility of the coprophagiac zoos of western eu waking up to the fact that what turned them into such was - nato. << at least the warsaw pact countries figured it out.
asciilifeform: the really sad and avoidable aspect would be if it were to leave the most deeply retarded old king with a fat stash of plundered btc.
asciilifeform: whatever kind of winblopocalypse it would take to make this statement seem perfectly reasonable to the most thoroughly retarded 'old king' - will likely happen reasonably soon.
asciilifeform will however believe the noises of 'there cannot be just one great kingdom' when mr. p starts impaling anyone caught with winblows
asciilifeform looks forward to the possibility of the coprophagiac zoos of western eu waking up to the fact that what turned them into such was - nato.
asciilifeform: the old could-vs-would
mircea_popescu: sure they could
mircea_popescu: we are making it, right here, and it specifically excludes "russia" in the sense of "putin"
mircea_popescu: Whether or not a new world order of any sort is to be built is not just Russia's decision, but it is a decision that will not be made without Russia. << this is false incidentally.
mircea_popescu: also, this is by no means the first or the most mommentuous "?speaking directly to the public"
mircea_popescu: they're pretty awful at reporting anything of substance.
asciilifeform: he, last i saw, was of the 'you fools and your electrical toys, doomed to die so soon' school of thought
xiando: So Sweden isn't the only one? Interesting
xiando: undata: Name 1 other country where the Police can legally stop you for no reason (other than that you went outside) and take a blood sample by force
asciilifeform: northern caliphate is one hell of a loltron.
mircea_popescu: <dub> lets not forget those two women worked for the CIA << srsly, this works ?
undata: right, the third is some passphrase encrypted key
undata: cazalla: do I recall correctly that they're using one of two?
cazalla: coblee herp derp store your bitcoin with coinbase cause you face the same risk from hackers doing it yourself anyway
undata: dub: he was stupid to trust them
dub: lets not forget those two women worked for the CIA
xiando: undata: and the original procecutor refused to take the case but a totally corrupt and known criminal feminist procutor named "Marianne Ny" insisted on taking up the case
nubbins`: you guys watch the new season?
thestringpuller: i'm fucked in the head
undata: xiando: I read that in the Assange case, the women didn't even want to press the case, but the prosecutor kept at it anyway.
xiando: I live in .se where two women claimed assange "raped" them, one of them said "yes we had sex and I did that of my own free will but he said he used a condom but didn't so it was rape"
mats_cd03: like... whats his face... owner of the basketball team with a negress woman
mircea_popescu: remember all the fame-seeking ditzy bitches trying to claim assange raped them too ?
mircea_popescu: well, there's this chaining suspicion.
bounce: therefore she must be fake
mats_cd03: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/10/29/jian_ghomeshi_8_women_accuse_former_cbc_host_of_violence_sexual_abuse_or_harassment.html << looks like at least one isnt anon nubbins`
ben_vulpes: capture keyid, barf if they're not in l2
punkman: ben_vulpes: yeah just threw that together to check bundle key/address
ben_vulpes: edgar has been tuned to deliver to certain IPs before others?
ben_vulpes: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/29/us-markets-sec-traders-idUSKBN0II0DC20141029 << what the fuck am i even reading
nubbins`: so to verify deed X, i need to first generate address Y from it, in order to grab the raw bundle
mircea_popescu: who the fuck makes html clearsigned things ;/
punkman: you can get the raw bundle
nubbins`: and i can't fetch via curl because the website has escaped all the html chars inside the deeds
nubbins`: i can't copy/paste the deeds because of line endings
ben_vulpes: just put the repo into sunlight
punkman: nubbins`: problem with 6LTeLfd6Scf1sgq9qmAYCT51oqoNmGP4 is the escaped html in the <pre> you are grabbing
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: i am unable to verify two of the 5 processed deeds: <<< software never fails eh stan ? if it worked once it always works right ? :DF
nubbins`: punkman: the 4 pending deeds all verify as well
mircea_popescu: assbot: Bitcoin Foundation: We Dont Want Everyone Starting a Bitcoin Business << lmao these fucking idiots.
nubbins`: for the deed contained in kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA i generate a deed id of AUJMybt23x4ddt8xUV1NVMj6M5fuQrqzdp1PrTZDTe5Q
nubbins`: for the deed contained in 6LTeLfd6Scf1sgq9qmAYCT51oqoNmGP4k9uBp9oZtwR1 i generate a deed id of 6zUpQ65f28U8e8AHYJ1nL7tcLgNxamJg37LJCo3rxksq
nubbins`: i am unable to verify two of the 5 processed deeds: 6LTeLfd6Scf1sgq9qmAYCT51oqoNmGP4k9uBp9oZtwR1 and kLuzx7GDPg8uXRawaZG9ndU7hfTd8CBHSTCCffSdzLA
ben_vulpes: punkman: without the deed title i get a good sig
ben_vulpes: on the topic of "no more bitcoin businesses" the bitcoin foundation is finally capitulating and following in MPEx's footsteps.
bounce: he does, and it's where every single government to date is failing in their digitalistation efforts
bounce: compare and contrast ``Bitcoin Foundation: We Don3t Want Everyone Starting a Bitcoin Business'' with ``Open Letter to Bitcoin Businesses: Why I'm closing my accounts'' on the bitcoinfoundation.org forum
punkman: yeah but I gotta verify the deeds
ben_vulpes: are you willing to share the source for deedbot?
punkman: that's where the stupid kicked in
ben_vulpes: how can you possibly verify a signature without the key?!
ben_vulpes: you should really grab fingerprints out of otc db and then import those keys.
mats_cd03: stasi list? sounds like a good name for the courts circus project.
ben_vulpes: punkman: can you give that to me in raw format? i'm seeing ^M all over the place
undata: asciilifeform: news that stasi found their way back into power? I'll bite. News... how?
asciilifeform: in other news...
mats_cd03: interesting decision, keeping the name
asciilifeform secretly hopes that folks other than him will pick this thing up when turdatron is operational
ben_vulpes: what's the rush, anyways?
ben_vulpes: returning to my original point, please email the set of your patches and sigs to benkay@gmail.com, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: seems escaped in the body as well
asciilifeform: and what's with the '---next part'
assbot: The BTC-dev October 2014 Archive by thread
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-October/thread.html << not showing there, why not ?
assbot: The BTC-dev October 2014 Archive by date
ben_vulpes: <jurov> asciilifeform: mailman will display gpg clearsigned attachment inline if you rename it to .txt (and i don't ned to diddle code then)
asciilifeform: the text should be visible in www browser
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-October/000001.html ??
assbot: The BTC-dev October 2014 Archive by thread
ben_vulpes: but this right here http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-October/thread.html constrains the filtering problem to something vastly more manageable.
ben_vulpes: but a vast improvement over your pooping patches into the noisestream here.
asciilifeform: useless then
ben_vulpes: at the moment it's not even relaying mail to me.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how to package them?
ben_vulpes: hey asciilifeform do a sapper a favor and start emailing your patches to btc-dev@therealbitcoin.org
ben_vulpes: the site i want to serve has links to /charter.html, /v0.5.3-gd05c03a.tar.gz and other stuff
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've pushed an update to the site, but the byzantine serving mechanism isn't providing it for some reason.
ben_vulpes: i'd almost rather stick it behind a webserver running on the same host as the mailman app.
assbot: Live at the Ship | Danielle Bailey
asciilifeform: (unofficial because the only official is the original - hashed - 0.5.3 with crunch of all the signed patches)
ben_vulpes: i think i'd rather be a general key
asciilifeform: when do we get the next irigaray and a very scholarly treatise on how ecdsa privileges some curves over others
ben_vulpes: <long-day> The activist community LOVES bitcoin bigtime... the two leading female promoters of bitcoin i'm friends with, but they don't know anything about trading. << and what does trading have to do with bitcoin?
nubbins`: ^ the star has been hitting it outta the park as far as canadian investigative journo goes these past couple years
nubbins`: http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/10/28/jian_ghomeshi_cbc_releases_memo_citing_claim_of_impropriety.html
bounce: who's the support?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 3rd snowden is then, logically, invited to 'go wasp'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess, yeah. not clear what was there.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: made sure every rape victim will ALSO be a homicide victim << see also related, the (alleged) decision to quietly shoot '2nd snowden' instead of public scandal
mircea_popescu: depends how the papers are writ.
nubbins`: but it *does* allow him to file a bunch of paperwork and get his version of events on the public record
mircea_popescu: pretty much the direct equivalent of the "tough on rape" laws that simply made sure every rape victim will ALSO be a homicide victim
mircea_popescu: i wonder if the fucktard "justice" warriors realise that their constant if innefectual nipping at the heels means that anyone involved who can afford it will in fact spend the money and clobber everyone in range.
nubbins`: now he's suing the cbc for $50m (lel), hired a PR firm, etc etc
nubbins`: but as for the sexual encounters, seems like they signed up for consensual kink but messy gomeshi took this as carte blanche
mircea_popescu: so guy kinda losing it, is the idea ?
nubbins`: another was a co-worker who got her ass grabbed and "i wanna hate-fuck you" whispered in ear during a meeting
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> consensual or just off da street ? <<< my understanding is that (some of) the women consented to a bit of kink, but then guy starts punching in head/mouth, choking to point of unconsciousness, etc
mircea_popescu: wait i thought it was the evil fatcat capitalists that keep importing cheap spooks to keep the local spooks down
bounce: about as productive. seeing how labour ends up importing pathetic chumps from elsewhere to keep access to a large pool of repressed lowlifes to represent.
mircea_popescu: across gender lines and against the wall of "nobody gives a shit"
mircea_popescu: katie mcdonough is salon's timewasting chatterbox. they need someone to actually do politics writing.
bounce: then there's this ``Katie McDonough is Salon's politics writer, focusing on gender, sexuality and reproductive justice.'' -- busily dressing up the thing with seemingly relevant and respectably looking numbers that really aren't meaningful to the problems in the piece.
bounce: this "nobody believes women!!1!" when the more important bit is that they're remaining anonymous (beyond the poor reader, to whom, exactly?). this annoys me.
mats_cd03: i am always confused when i read these things
nubbins`: very popular canadian media personality beat the shit outta a bunch of women, his friend who happens to be a world-renowned composer wrote a frank essay on the subject, essay is now apparently a media item in itself
mircea_popescu: mostly run as a cheap way to find people who think they should be prosecuted.
BingoBoingo: mats_cd03: To my knowledge it seems the entire ID forgery business is pretty much a USG monopoly
long-day: I kinda look like a dumbass right now, I'm aware of that and would rather contain it.
long-day: well... all the stuff I told you guys are trade secrets and the fact that I'm doing horribly with the trading so far is just embarassing
bounce: so get'em both in here and have'em introduce themselves
long-day: it's too small a world to start naming names. I'm certain there are people reading this who are friends with them
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I was going off of the porcfest name drop
long-day: The activist community LOVES bitcoin bigtime... the two leading female promoters of bitcoin i'm friends with, but they don't know anything about trading.
asciilifeform studied the life and times of spammers and related fauna professionally for a while
mircea_popescu: you know how everywhere in the civilised world (so therefore, not in the US, excepot for vegas) shops employ young'uns to sit outside and invite people in ?
long-day: I know basically nothing when it comes to this. I've been awake for more than 36 hours straight trying to learn though. And many hours over the last week on top of that. When it comes video editing, marketing, writing blogs, networking and getting access to good interviews I know my stuff... Bitcoin I know very little though. I want to know though. A year ago at Porcfest is when I learned about it. I've interviewed nearly ev
mircea_popescu: lol. so there you go long-day, you can make a fortune affing for bitcoin sites.
jurov: yes coinbr does it too (there's nothing intereesting for chumps, tho)
jurov: long-day: you know there's a search for bitbet affiliate manager?
asciilifeform: mocking one idiot who shits his pants - sure. until they all shit and the world is buried.
assbot: Logged on 26-02-2014 06:23:40; asciilifeform: channelling herr naggum: 'It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an inspiration to future authors.'
bounce: nah, got kicked out. 'cuz what hot new shop fresh on the scene can possibly produce thousands of quality apps?
asciilifeform: bounce: set up a cheap shop full of "coders" in pakistan, had them churn out cookie-cutter "apps" with other people's content << lemme guess, lost out competition to the fellow with same stolen appz, but plus malware
long-day: all you do is post to the fanpage, wait 30 min, then like the post, wait 30 more min, like a comment (if someone has commented), 30 min later reply to their comment etc... paying 20 dollars for 100k youtube views is impossible. one of my youtube channels is partnered so it gets twice the adsense payout,. they pay 3-5 dollars per thousand views. 100k views on a video would make me about 400 dollars and 3 times that from the b
bounce: like this guy in -otc, set up a cheap shop full of "coders" in pakistan, had them churn out cookie-cutter "apps" with other people's content, dump on the app store, make five bucks each, sell a million before people catch on his 35k apps on the store are all crap. -- he's a real s/w house, yo.
mircea_popescu: i could start a web security business just out of the fallout of that one failed ddos.
asciilifeform: and, unrelated, whoever was asking about chain-fork alarm, that's still in the turd. the thing that was nixed was the gavintron.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform here's a fun tidbit : idiot with synflood actually used a bunch of websites to do it. so after some scriptage i'm emailing the owners to fix their bs. i had to throtle it because .. too many replies.
mircea_popescu: long-day you have to meet the power of scripts.
long-day: actually there are ways to cheat the algorithims. every time you like your own post or a comment that someone made on your post or if you reply to a comment, it refreshes and shows up on all the subscribers feeds again (if they are on FB at that moment in time). She's made an ebook on how to get your posts seen and is gonna sell it in the next month (she's great at that crap)
BingoBoingo: No, they actually seem to do the later. Insert video to be viewed before video people want to view.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> long-day 100k youtube views cost like 20 bux or so iirc. << Basically this is the thing that pays for decent streaming tv
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the former.
asciilifeform: or some other 'viral'
ben_vulpes: the feed is a facebook curated thing - not something anyone outside of their revenue extraction machine has any say in.
BingoBoingo: Shame I'll never see any of them since I ended Facebook.
long-day: well... 20 million people reached a week just means 20 million people total scroll past her posts on her feeds - doesn't necessarily mean they all click on her posts :-/ but if the blog/video is good enough and she posts it, it will go viral
mircea_popescu: the problem is you russian folk can't say the woman had tea without specifying if she was sitting down and how hot was it!
asciilifeform: gotta love modern spamatronic engineering terms like 'efficiency', 'reach.' they take arguments! but somehow always implicit - you can say 'reach' without saying 'reach what' ??! it's as if we were writing perl.
bounce: it's the network effect, see?
bounce: the website is at peopleofwalmart.com
mircea_popescu: o.O. the endless variety of us peoples, or how did that quote go.
mircea_popescu: James George Janos (born July 15, 1951), better known by his stage name, Jesse Ventura, is an American politician, actor, author, naval veteran, and former professional wrestler who served as the 38th Governor of Minnesota from 1999 to 2003.
gribble: Jesse Ventura - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura>; Off The Grid - Ora.Tv: <http://www.ora.tv/offthegrid>; Jesse Ventura - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/user/VenturaOffGrid>
BingoBoingo: long-day: The last serious market, MPEx, pulled out of BTC Options after the Putocolypse.
ben_vulpes: that burning feeling of imitating thy fathers failures.
long-day: some of the fb pages I manage are "end the fed" and "jesse ventura 2016" about a dozen more. My gf's reach is crazy (about 16-26 million people a week). Idk why I'm desperate.. maybe because my dad failed at the stock market and and I don't like him very much...
mircea_popescu: yeah ben_vulpes has it. there's excellent reason why i ask girls to camwhumiliate themselves. best starting point is utter shame.
bounce: what's with the desperation?
ben_vulpes: probably the best thing you could do is enter at this low point and then demonstrate the abilit to learn, long-day.
long-day: this is ttnews by the way-- i'm a journalist and my wish is to learn this and to promote it on my news network/podcast/websites/facebook pages. I know this is the future and I've got quite a large reach so I know I can do a lot of good. I'm obviously desperate coming on here. And I take it trading margin on bitfinix is not suggested by you guys... and I didn't put all my eggs in one basket but I do learn from my mistakes and
Pierre_Rochard: ben_vulpes: the opposite of gribble, not a bot. Generous on thestringpuller’s part, I’m probably somewhere in between a bot and a real person
long-day: exactly - it's not which why I don't see how most can't see that it's great that bitcoin is giving the fiat $ competition
bounce grapples with the concept
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 2 for user thestringpuller has been recorded.
Pierre_Rochard: ;;rate thestringpuller 2 “lives in atl, didn’t scam me”
assbot: The contents of the Start page are not programmatically accessible - The Old New Thing - Site Home - MSDN Blogs
bitstein: thestringpuller: I heard good things.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. Trust relationship from user Pierre_Rochard to user thestringpuller: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=Pierre_Rochard&dest=thestringpuller | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=thestringpuller | Rated since: Mon Oct 15 18:46:37 2012
Pierre_Rochard: ;;gettrust thestringpuller
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Pierre_Rochard!~Pierre@c-98-251-108-249.hsd1.ga.comcast.net. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user Pierre_Rochard: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 4 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=Pierre_Rochard | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Pierre_Rochard | Rated since: Sun Jun 1 10:18:50 2014
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net', is identified as user 'thestringpuller', with GPG key id 0FF2943DA179E169, key fingerprint 6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169, and bitcoin address None
Pierre_Rochard: ;;ident thestringpuller
nubbins`: just before the first <span class="calcResult">
ben_vulpes: undata: it's the forum, you can speak, you don't need any permission from me.
mircea_popescu: he got the charts right lol
Apocalyptic: "if I were a little more patient I'd be doing great now..." // the noob fallacy, as it there was a way to perfectly time the bottom
ttnews_: i got the charts right just panicked like a newb - if I were a little more patient I'd be doing great now...
undata: the solution is to never gamble again.
undata: even on /r/bitcoin there have been numerous, NUMEROUS horror stories about this.
ttnews_: yes - short squeeze.. i'm learning the terms. another term i'm very knowledgable on: murphy's law
los_pantalones: also, you understand this selloff is specifically targeted to squeeze ppl like you out of the market?
mircea_popescu: cue to them sitting pensively around the kitchen table. after a while, wife : "i think we shouldn't punish him..."
mircea_popescu: you know the one where two traditional parents find some pretty heavy bdsm porny magazines in junior's room ?
mircea_popescu: ask your wife/gf/so to give you 100 lashes to the bare buttocks while at it.
los_pantalones: lose it and sail quietly into the dusk
ttnews_: is there any way i can salvage the dmg caused so far. I lose everything at $321 but I'm thinking it could bounce back and rise? fml...
mircea_popescu: ttnews_ noobs have no business playing speculator with their consumer savings.