mircea_popescu: on the blkchain i mean
mircea_popescu: that's unavoidable, otherwise thing won't pass into 2014.
asciilifeform: there was some grumbling that i didn't post an auto-zapper that turns 0.5.3 into the hash manifest in 'chicken'
mircea_popescu: there IS some significant ops advantage to not running any one stock db.
asciilifeform: with the two patches << with all of my patches so far.
undata: asciilifeform: that's with the two patches, or something new?
ben_vulpes: the religious ones in salem.
ben_vulpes: the gangsters live in vancouver
mircea_popescu: and it needs all the weighin it can get
ben_vulpes: lots of russians in the area.
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps the most important, momentuous architectura decision
mircea_popescu: actually, it's perhaps not premature to start the subscription list of everyone's favourite db solution
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: can't say as i recall, the impression was formed over the course of 3 raves in quarries in the depths of oregon forests over my sixteenth summer.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: with no weird 'now please delete blkindex' crud << this is never going to happen on the current db (bdb) because it's a pos, and if the computer fails unexpectedly it messes up the state.
BingoBoingo: bounce: Did you not read http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jimmy_fatwing/Military/infantry_knife.htm the first time it was linked?
mircea_popescu: especially if it passes the magical block
mircea_popescu: undata anyway, get the current code, build it and see what happens.
mircea_popescu: hah! first, you eat the banana, thus disarming him.
gribble: Monty Python - Self-Defense Against Fruit - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piWCBOsJr-w>; Self Defence Against Fresh Fruit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_Defence_Against_Fresh_Fruit>; Monty Python's Flying Circus: Just the Words - Episode 4: <http://www.ibras.dk/montypython/episode04.htm>
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "how to defend yourself against the banana fiend" ?
gribble: At Folsom Prison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_Folsom_Prison>; Folsom Prison Blues - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folsom_Prison_Blues>; Johnny Cash - Folsom Prison Blues - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7gV5C5mB7A>
BingoBoingo: Anyone want a pdf of the Folsom book?
mircea_popescu: undata then again, mayhap you missed my point.
asciilifeform: chicken << comes from recipe, attributed to the old gypsies: 'first, steal the chicken.'
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone taking bets on the name of the chick that informed mr fox as to the intricacies of the russian soul ?
undata: mircea_popescu: I think you missed the point of my comment on open source, which was in response to "how will we ever finish the deturdification"
mircea_popescu: it's going, it's going, don't blame the relative fixed position of mountains on the ass derping in the road.
bounce would add 2d barcodes (QR or something) for the sigantures
bounce: printable text that can nonetheless be verified. that'd be interesting.
BingoBoingo: What else is practice for? Some people pull trucks with their teeth. Some people practice other feats of physical performance.
BingoBoingo: <bounce> rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol << What's the point of drinking if you un-drunk yourself so soon?
bounce: rarely drink these days, but plenty water before bed means no headache, just lingering alcohol
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo he has a point there, this "need coffee to wake up" thing is nonsense. i know this experimentally.
mircea_popescu: the us "debate", an engine wasting time and paper while going from unpolarized to polarized.
BingoBoingo: bounce: How do you become functional in the morning without coffee and cigarettes? Gotta mix your stims.
mircea_popescu: *: BingoBoingo wonders about serious matters such as will Cardano prototype factory make the eventual loper prototype << my hope is that in the 2020s. but i've been off before by an xmas or two.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things. << Wait this thing I've been doing forever is unusual? I always wash the ashtrays at least weekly
mircea_popescu: hm, i like girls that wash ashtrays. i don't mean empty them in the trash, i mean actually wash the damned things.
mircea_popescu: dude incredible how much subtext i miss. and i do read the logs!
mircea_popescu: maybe it's the hottie gf of his wife ?
mircea_popescu: undata: if only there were some way to organize the efforts of a large number of people around projects <<< there is. you're watching it. just because leadership is not in your face doesn't necessarily mean leadership is absent and it's your time to shine. it may also mean leadership is extremely good at what it does.
mircea_popescu: undata: if there's an existing stripped down client the deturdification process is a waste of time <<< what are you, new ?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: a good rng will aid the process. << srsly, how do you keep this dry ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
undata: BingoBoingo: articles like this are hard; they're trying to integrate two sides of a debate, where likely neither party is being fair
BingoBoingo: See, my reading of the story is that the Silicon Valley management style is even more broken than typical 'Murican MBA bullshit.
jurov: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.encryption.general/12588/ << i'd like to have turdatron ready for the anniversary, but it's unlikely
undata: "What they found instead was a confounding array of rules, structures, and systems imposed by Omidyar and other First Look managers on matters both trivial—which computer program to use to internally communicate, mandatory regular company-wide meetings, mandated use of a “responsibility assignment matrix” called a “RASCI,” popular in business-school circles for managing projects—as well as
BingoBoingo: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/10/30/inside-story-matt-taibbis-departure-first-look-media/
BingoBoingo: !up twistedether
BingoBoingo: !up The20YearIRCloud
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Thank you for pointing me to the Folksom book. The practice drills are the best.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user dignork: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 4 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=dignork | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=dignork | Rated since: Fri Oct 18 12:20:18 2013
BingoBoingo: Oh, there's a coup in Burkina Faso
ben_vulpes: "we understand that you want these things. we will work on them in the agreed upon and prioritized order. you authorize unlimited budget in hopes that we can get it all done."
ben_vulpes: maybe the next time i actually laugh at a scope/timeline combination in a meeting and the potential client still falls all over themselves to sign our no deliverable, best effort contract my internal warning flags should go up
PeterL: why would they do that?
ben_vulpes: client signed a no-deliverable, best effort contract with us and then made promises to their client executives.
BingoBoingo: U can't measure apple color with tools, because Apple is beyond measuring with tools http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/10/why-is-the-new-imac-5k-instead-of-4k-its-all-about-the-video-baby/
BingoBoingo: Os X is the weird one
undata: nubbins`: what I meant to be asking is whether gentoo was weird by putting it in /usr/include/db4.8
undata: bounce: neg, was not led by the patch name "chicken" to believe that that one cleaned up the project
bounce: though might not need the latter, dunno.
undata: that and unix survived. I was using the unix one
chetty: Are they using 'wish' maps maybe?
BingoBoingo: This is more interesting with the other side's context http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/10/30/why_do_russian_jets_keep_buzzing_european_countries.html
undata: stating the obvious
undata: ben_vulpes: statement behind the question is 95% of this build crap can go
ben_vulpes: the -assets build is realnix only
gernika: undata to the ovens with techies?
undata: "Fuck techies" << to the ovens with you
BingoBoingo: bounce: Well, executive director of the CoinLab Foundation for the promotion of scams and Redditurds
bounce: so, the guy that's going to actively support unleashing lots of onerous gov't regulation on this bitcoin thing is now executive director of the bitcoin foundation
BingoBoingo: Fucking white people http://valleywag.gawker.com/heres-what-the-mission-riots-looked-like-after-the-gian-1652846299/+tcraggs22
PeterL: question: my scoopbot dumps links from posts into the chan, should I ask to have assbot ignore it or provide the title of each link?
cazalla: BingoBoingo, it's up now https://bitcoinfoundation.org/2014/10/the-next-chapter/
undata: or we can get to the point and get something done
undata: the same value applies to communication.
undata: asciilifeform: were we not talking about the kelvin way of versioning code?
undata cuts the knot in half
asciilifeform: straight to sword then.
undata: the grinding out code was a general statement of what I value
asciilifeform: undata: might want to investigate why the original does not, in fact, work.
thickasthieves: maybe the foundation should take it over
asciilifeform: the mostly-empty wiki?
thickasthieves: undata this is sorta started in the b-a wiki, which anyone with voice can add to probly
mats_cd03: a game of catching the falling knife?
asciilifeform: do i need to explain why i asked for the book?
asciilifeform: the bare naked minimum worthy of nubbins` book, is a gadget that functions, reliably, on current network
asciilifeform: my next patch was going to be a removal of the magic strings (seed ip table, etc) and replacement with ascii configs, as suggested by mircea_popescu.
undata: but poking the thing is desirable
ben_vulpes: dark mirror images of each other in some aspects
asciilifeform: if you approve of another fellow's patch after honest study of it - you sign it as well
asciilifeform: undata: standards << ben_vulpes and mod6 started, at instigation of mircea_popescu, a 'foundation', where somebody (them?) will sit as mergemaster
ben_vulpes: i halfway think the gpg signature turdatron blocking merges and discussion needs to be nuked and implemented by some eager beaver later
ben_vulpes: undata: we're currently blocked on a mailing list thinger that may or may not see the light of day anytime soon
asciilifeform: undata: but i have very little to do with it otherwise...
undata: what are the standards for "this goes"
ben_vulpes: grab those patches, review, add sig if you want to put your ass on the line.
asciilifeform: no one, yet, saw it fit to comment at length on them
asciilifeform: ^ other patches thus far
undata: there are myriad bugfixes that will need to be backported
asciilifeform: undata: earliest (lightest-weight, least lines of gavin) version that is known to be compatible with the extant net.
undata: how was the 0.5.3 choice made?
asciilifeform: undata: http://therealbitcoin.org contains origin tree. 'chicken' lists the remaining files after first trim. rm_... is ben_vulpes's patch;
BingoBoingo: undata: No, you do things. You just have to understand the obstacles as you make your cue.
undata: BingoBoingo: lets do nothing then
BingoBoingo: <undata> asciilifeform: that is a problem of the artists and not painting << No, this is a problem of no one fucking reading and the world burning because the entire stacks sucks because unread. Worked until it didn't
undata: asciilifeform: where's the source
asciilifeform: undata: yes, we know the ru/jewish saying 'the bad dancer is hindered only by his arse.' this should be seen as an invitation to the good dancers.
undata: asciilifeform: that is a problem of the artists and not painting
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> why am i even telling this, go run it << sir you are a gift to the logs
BingoBoingo wonders about serious matters such as will Cardano prototype factory make the eventual loper prototype
asciilifeform: undata: this is how we got the extant bitcoind. if you like it - you know where to find it
undata: I'm not going to argue the merits of open source
undata: there's ample evidence in the market that one can reduce cost and increase quality by open sourcing the things not directly in your moneymaking pipeline
asciilifeform: undata: the orthodoxy wants to be proven wrong. don't wait! fire.
undata: there's an absurd orthodoxy around here
asciilifeform: the idependantly wealthy - straight to sword.
undata: receiving money isn't the only way to invest in your own goals
undata: everything is shit but the speaker
undata: if only there were some way to organize the efforts of a large number of people around projects
undata: I'm not going to bother.
undata: BingoBoingo: that metaphor has no resemblance to what does and does not benefit the functioning of a decentralized network
BingoBoingo: undata: Alright. Spz you're a Jew in olden times coming onto the battlefield with your nifty bronze sword. Now the Assyrians emerge from the horizon, but instead of bronze they have Iron!
asciilifeform: i will answer the secret question which i can answer. 1) i personally can't pay rent with btc without giving up every other one to usg. 2) cost of extrication from gravity well is inconceivably high. 3) no one crowned me hero to begin with, why even ask.
undata: it's a bit difficult to steer the direction of a decentralized network with no offering.
asciilifeform: perhaps his only runs on gurlz with arithmometers, how the fuck would i know
chetty: curiosity killed the cat
assbot: Logged on 24-10-2014 20:24:45; mircea_popescu: maybe once it's over in the sense of, we're all drunk in the retirement home.
asciilifeform: he made it clear that didn't want to, why pester the man
asciilifeform: undata: afaik mircea_popescu doesn't actually need the weapon - already has own
chetty: I would go after that sword if eulora wasn't in the way
undata: asciilifeform: perhaps the wealthier among us have reason to offer bounties
asciilifeform: undata: 'this' being the overall affair of transmuting the 0.5.3 turd into a usable weapon
BingoBoingo: I'm still catching up to there
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: these die during initial blockchain pumping
BingoBoingo: thickasthieves: pankkake says .9 is where it's at << My 0.8.x node I run is rather low on memory consumption, runs with full txindex
asciilifeform: who the fuck is in New York << afaik most of 'verizon' ends up 'new york'
BingoBoingo: Except who the fuck is in New York?
BingoBoingo: adlai: bounce: so you could theoretically "chemically print" the composition of any drink, medicine, poison, drug, explosive, etc << Very hard problem when you want to print anything protein
kakobrekla: a good rng will aid the process.
ben_vulpes: the notes on bdb lock size are hilarious
ben_vulpes: why thread does not show the same as date and author is a mystery to me.
undata: asciilifeform: is there a new client mailling list yet?
mircea_popescu: anyway, gotta go, bbl. don't eat each other ye hear!
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> ripping usg crud out of the thing is a recipe to endanger any coins i'd have if i were not eating ramen so that the dog might eat << dude that's touching, srsly.
undata: ben_vulpes: at least the dog would kill a guy for you; my girlfriend's cats would just watch
ben_vulpes: ripping usg crud out of the thing is a recipe to endanger any coins i'd have if i were not eating ramen so that the dog might eat
undata selfishly wants the stripped down daemon for his own experiments
bounce: patenting war to win the patent war
mircea_popescu: gtfo, i hear they got 3d printing now and errything.
asciilifeform: and anything other than a stone age opponent can blind the machine. or, if usa continues to insist on unsigned control signals, take it home.
mircea_popescu: if plane could fly w/o ground installations, captive pilot may make sense. as it is, pilot belongs with the airbase not with the plane.
mats_cd03: although the 101 airborne was converted to an air mobility unit recently, so theres that.
asciilifeform: the driver?
mircea_popescu: fwiw, the current us doctrine of "don't put the most valuable part of the plane in the most fragile part of the plane" is sound.
mircea_popescu: tho they were an utter and total waste of resources
mircea_popescu: well, half a day. but they didn't fly wortha shit at night anyway.
mircea_popescu: anyway, those were the days. gasoline + 5 man crew for a day, 100 bux.
mircea_popescu: you know they weren't THAT bad a design.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the men called those, affectionately, 'тушка' (little sorry carcass)
gribble: TU-46 | Game 2 Play Online - Silvergames.com: <http://www.silvergames.com/tu-46>; Tupolev Tu-75 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-75>; TU - 46 | Miscellaneous Games | Play Free Games Online at Armor ...: <http://armorgames.com/play/12702/tu-46>
asciilifeform: military tupolev << lol. my father rode in those for phree.
asciilifeform will probably get there soonish
mircea_popescu: jurov lettuce get this show on the road shall we ?
asciilifeform: lol, http://therealbitcoin.org/treasurer_contract.html signed with '1blablablalblbalbalba' ???
ben_vulpes: curl http://therealbitcoin.org/charter-B71EADAF.asc | gpg --verify
nubbins`: perhaps i'll put it on the cover
mircea_popescu: punkman so nao i want to verify things, but i can't, because no bot and i dun recall what the website is ;/
ben_vulpes: therealbitcoin.org/charter.html
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the charter is signed, right ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: no checkpoint there.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "old for the sake of old" right ?
asciilifeform: 'hero' would be the fella who submits to carrying out this mission gratis, and can stay alive long enough to chop down a critical mass of foes.
mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 not in the next five years.
asciilifeform: turd on lathe requires liquid helium refrigerant to stay solid.
mircea_popescu: 17 // How many times we expect transactions after the last checkpoint to
mircea_popescu: just for the lulz :
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform don't laugh, greeks conquered them too :D
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:09:54; asciilifeform: in other news, turd firmly wedged at block height 252450.
mircea_popescu: i *think* the maximal lock count a block may possibly need is somewhere just south of 600k, but i don't have the shithandy.
mircea_popescu: hey there desi.
mircea_popescu: by default a DB_CONFIG file in bitcoin root fixes the problem.
bounce: so... what is in there? cocoa powder, cocoa butter, some sugar?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: bdb locks initialisation issue << my current study suggests malformed txes in the mempool also.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: those 12 errors look like 6-10 different holes << also please remember that there is no deterministic full-walk test for this turd orchestra.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: does anyone know the cause of permanent blockchain wedging in 0.5.3 ? << i am pretty certain it's the bdb locks initialisation issue.
joecool: hitting a wall with pinentry not drawing a pin dialog (using the curses form)... just bails out
asciilifeform is not thrilled with the fact that poroshenko owns most of the remaining supply chain for proper 'soviet' chocolate, and the latter may soon be in short supply
asciilifeform: (for n00bs to the subject, ussr never invented erzats chocolate, except towards the very end)
mircea_popescu: how much of a buggy half implementation of a garbage collector is there in bitcoind ?
assbot: Logged on 30-10-2014 17:54:25; asciilifeform: the other thing is, i'm fairly certain this is not the end of the story:
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that something being me, further down in log?
asciilifeform: to finish off my 'sword into the stone' speech - yes, i can do this. (turd lathe.) but - if i were to put in the time required, the hour would soon come that i could not pay electric bill. and then s.nsa, and turdatron, will have to summon the gnome rumplestilskin to work in my stead. while i boil in whatever pot in hell moiety and pankkake are cooking in.
mats_cd03: i can't tell if we're on the same page. but yes.
los_pantalones: the short is payin up right now
mats_cd03: is there a linter for iptables?
mircea_popescu: then gunk starts piling up, and before you know it... you're praying nobody notioces.
thickasthieves: well i do have pm experience, itd be my only tool to tackle the job
mircea_popescu: you're in the position of the wooden plank that's straighter than a bridge crossbeam. yes, now.
asciilifeform: whatchawaitingfor then.
mircea_popescu: not what i mean tho. incidentally : that's rms gnu. he lies when he says that's foss. it's not. it's a particular attempt at a middle way, with him as the "modest" hero.
asciilifeform: but if it turns out that i am the only one here who even knows how to operate 'valgrind', 'gdb', etc. - you're SOL, fellas.
asciilifeform: don't get me wrong, if there liveth among us a hero who can piss out the required diamonds in his spare time, let him pull the sword out of the stone.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i confess i'm one of the sinful looking for a golden middle way
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, others: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html << basic intro to 'open source doesn't work.' --- 'we' have steaming heaps of shit instead of software because that's what 'we're' willing to pay for.
asciilifeform: if proposed 'benefit' is contributions of 'fixes' from strangers, that's a joke right off the bat
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they aren't published for the mundane reason of 'i paid $maxint for skyscraper, why should others live in it for nothing'
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2014/10/matonis-to-resign-from-vessenes-bitcoin-foundation/ << Fuck me, of course CoinDesk gets the exclusive and the foundation blog has nothing.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not enough to be willing to go on the expedition. also need pitons, tents, dogs, pemmican.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the argument "no benefit, some risk"?
asciilifeform: 5) if you think you have 'bitcoin career' or whateverthefuck, derping around with financitrons of whatever variety, and at the same time you're at the mercy of phoundation's turds and whatever direction they'll take them in, you're the goose waiting for christmas dinner.
asciilifeform: (functional in our sense, not merely in the technical sense of 'appearing to work')
asciilifeform: 4) everyone remember the thread where mircea_popescu explained why none of the people who, through necessity, arrived at a functional bitcoind workalike, have shared it.
thickasthieves: he could just as easily post the walls as Asks too, using margin
asciilifeform: 3) gavin & the phoundation gang boobytrapped the blockchain in a number of ways that appear to interfere with reliable operation of classical nodes, these will have to be ferreted out
thickasthieves: xiando, yes it is DrewR, but it's more like 15k+ coins, and he took the walls down
nubbins`: LET THE HERO STEP UP