thestringpuller: decimation: at any rate, one cannot consider themsleves a programmer today without knowing C << unfortunately not a lot of people learn C in what you may call "computer science education" (or is so named)
asciilifeform: '...and _does_ an operating system that forces the programmer to check to see whether the operating system did what it was asked to do every damn time you ask it to do anything actually give any relevant form of support to anyone?'
decimation: perhaps in the future it will not be so
decimation: at any rate, one cannot consider themsleves a programmer today without knowing C
mircea_popescu: arguably c doesn't do much to help the programmer not be stupid. then again, it doesn't actually force them to be dumb. sort of like asm, and nobody really hates asm.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal people generally hate c++ for reasons and c by extension.
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
mircea_popescu: sadekjake hey there.
TheNewDeal: not as bad as the usg?
mircea_popescu: <TheNewDeal> So I'm reading this conversation about programming languages from 7 days ago (28-10-2014). There is a lot of trash talking about OOPs, like C++. I don't see anyone mention C. Is C just not worth mentioning? <<< c is really not ~that~ bad.
decimation: if you search the logs there are pointers to folks who have hardware projects that interface ibm ps/2 keyboards made in the 80's to usb
thestringpuller: co workers hated the clicking but damn it was a slick keyboard
thestringpuller: yea I used one of those. I wanna get the one with the mouse in the middle (like on the think-pads) for my desktop.
Vexual: they were quickly liberated from govenment offices here
decimation: my dad had a 'real' ibm AT at work, I was impressed by the built-like-a-tank chassis
thestringpuller: decimation: http://thepcmuseum.net/comp_images/photo_EpsonEquity1+.JPG << that was mine
decimation: it was the best thing my family bought me, I learned dos, played kings quest & space quest, learned to write in wordperfect
decimation: as I recall it cost around $2k in the late 80's
BingoBoingo: <devthedev> It would be just the domain essentially. << Problem is the first 5 letters of the domain are too popular
devthedev: It would be just the domain essentially.
thestringpuller: what is there to sell? do you have contributors?
devthedev: thestringpuller: I may just sell it, I don't have as much time as I'd like to devote to it.
decimation: lol they were dinged for exporting ipsec?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: afaik they self-volunteered for gassing (for no reason i know of)
thestringpuller: devthedev: I can tell. Last article published was Oct. 17. lol
thestringpuller: devthedev: didn't you make a news site?
TheNewDeal: I took a class that was all about MIPS, but it got over my head at the end. I was a mech engr stuck in a class of comp sci students
asciilifeform: sure they were.
TheNewDeal: not mentioned in the programming discussion
asciilifeform: what about them?
TheNewDeal: But there's not hundreds of thousands of people going around writing "Can lift a volkswagen efficiently" on their CV
thestringpuller: devthedev: get your shares?
asciilifeform: 'too tough for people' is a poor angle. there are people who can lift a 'volkswagen.'
BingoBoingo: And the hardware plays back
TheNewDeal: what in the hell does that mean?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> don't look for the 'incompetent c contest.' it's right there on your desk. << It's everywhere
TheNewDeal: So I'm reading this conversation about programming languages from 7 days ago (28-10-2014). There is a lot of trash talking about OOPs, like C++. I don't see anyone mention C. Is C just not worth mentioning?
BingoBoingo: Denton writes rarely, but when he does criticizes Gawker authors for their economic liberalism.
BingoBoingo: decimation: I think of Denton more as the mirror image of the Koch Brothers, but that's a very imperfect correspondence.
decimation: BingoBoingo: so he's kinda like the walter lippmann of this era?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Worse. Drudge didn't spend the entire 1990's getting merit washed.
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> The contemporary idea of the incredibly PC media mafia after the bush election exists as a creature of Nick Denton's creation << hm. sort of like anti-drudge ?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller actually, no.
thestringpuller: Over 60 mn Ether sold!!!! Amazing!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: ;;later tell mircea_popescu did you mean to put an "https" link for the Qntra link on the prospectus on the MPEx listing?
decimation: BingoBoingo: it would be interesting to have a directory (with pictures) of those who call the shots in the media today
decimation: asciilifeform: re: verizon dns << didn't they announce that they would helpfully insert friendly cookies in your http stream?
BingoBoingo: it is important to note the present incarnation of that crowd was not sparked by HUffington, Digg, or Reddit, but in Nick Denton's constant reinvestment in Gawker media.
BingoBoingo: The contemporary idea of the incredibly PC media mafia after the bush election exists as a creature of Nick Denton's creation
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Basically in the 1990's Nick Denton amassed a warchest of bezzel bucks. Then he hired bored housewife to stalk celebrities for initial traffic. After that sustaining gawker was a matter of keeping the bills paid.
ben_vulpes: they're lovely
mircea_popescu: anyway, gawker, nov 4th. "But it's hard to tell if anyone is even real anymore." mp, sep 13th "I want the average redditor to understand that when he interacts with a screen name, he is not interracting with a person."
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No, the which star/starlet can we push to break the cocaine imbibed by 23 record universe
mircea_popescu: what universe is that, the soda fountain ?
BingoBoingo: decimation: Well, here in Illinois they get all kinds of powers to do warrantless searches
decimation: BingoBoingo: I hear from folks who would know in Ohio that the most competent police there are the fish & game cops
BingoBoingo: They almost always get to presume probably cause in search
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> but what of the reddit dogcatcher? he noticed? << You forget the most dangerous police variety in most US states, the fish and game cop.
asciilifeform: but what of the reddit dogcatcher? he noticed?
jurov: reddit police noticed the bitcoin foundation
BingoBoingo might have switched to write only mode. spent the morning driving distances. Brain is still recovering.
BingoBoingo: Of course they get read. It's just... luer lock being a thing with a name I could have swore was the rare s.nsa detail that in the statement could have been shelf pointed to sooner if more transparent.
asciilifeform: ferglubssake, i write the broadcasts, does anybody read'em?
asciilifeform: luer lock off the shelf!
BingoBoingo: But, still. Did asciilifeform actually reinvent the Luer lock, or was S.NSA working on darker magic already? These are the mysteries to be unveiled after the war is won.
BingoBoingo: Who seriously knew last year's ship date was a distraction while a whole fucking factory was being built in the swamp?
asciilifeform: give the man his money back.
assbot: Let’s Cut To The Chase, Is La Serenissima A Cult? | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/04/lets-cut-to-the-chase-is-la-serenissima-a-cult/#comment-4505 << lol thestringpuller calls out the cardano!
BingoBoingo: Uber discriminates in the worst way http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/11/04/uber_price_surging_on_halloween_does_it_take_unfair_advantage_of_drunk_people.html
mircea_popescu: so then ce in mircea, ce in zece, same ce.
mircea_popescu: i imagine indian kids have it the worst. i've seen some pretty gnarly shit.
pete_dushenski: historical footnote, "police" was the first word i could actually spell other than my own name
mircea_popescu: it'd be pretty rad if people were like "and then this single polic jumped me"
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski fix the an plural.
mircea_popescu: that "put some rope on them, they're imobilized now" convention doesn't really work irl.
pete_dushenski: and swallowing. cyanide or otherwise
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i can still be pissy!
gribble: Chubby Checker - The Official Site: <https://www.chubbychecker.com/>; Chubby Checker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chubby_Checker>; Chubby Checker - Biography - Singer - Biography.com: <http://www.biography.com/people/chubby-checker-9542332>
pete_dushenski: the point of this wasn't to pump your fucking tires
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski im gonna have this read weekly in the harem, outloud. just ftr.
BingoBoingo: Or there's a wild markov chain
mircea_popescu: jus' sayin' for the record.
mircea_popescu: so i was with this chick earlier, her parents had the weird idea of calling her Modesty
mircea_popescu: "Hes one of the most masterful wielders of words" << you got a ways to go foxy! check out pete's offerings!
mircea_popescu: ima steal it then, to me it sounds like something i'd say.
ben_vulpes: people cannot be saved form themselves.
ben_vulpes: <******> as long as there are tools, there will be people using them poorly << i give up
mircea_popescu: what was that oglaf with "god is on their side" btw ?
mircea_popescu: shit fuck piss motherfucker and tits! this bastard called me insane! YOU DARE SAY INSANITY OF OUR PRODUCTIVE INSTITUTION ?!?!?!
mircea_popescu: "The new Foundation, the new deeds system, a real Bitcoin news site, and more" << only the stuff of the past month gets a mention because the previous stuff is so ingrained by now it's like a skin.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> when do we get on with one of us proving p==np and the others throwing him off a boat? << I have a feeling this is like weaponized bitcoind, if you have it best to keep it concealed
BingoBoingo had in addition to math prof with Erdos of nope, an econ professor with an office in the loft of the campus's old barn
asciilifeform: when do we get on with one of us proving p==np and the others throwing him off a boat?
asciilifeform has seen 'anything even remotely like #b-a.' but they're all dead.
mircea_popescu: Then, as always happens when one is freed from the banality of the familiar, I found myself with some spare time during a vacation in Mazatlán. Then, there, just like that, the pieces began falling into place. I actually sat down to read the #b-a logs and there I saw conversations unfolding before my very eyes that gave context to Trilema, that gave context to Bitcoin, and that were were so tearfully, blessedly, beaut
assbot: Let’s Cut To The Chase, Is La Serenissima A Cult? | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
mircea_popescu: http://www.contravex.com/2014/11/04/lets-cut-to-the-chase-is-la-serenissima-a-cult/ quoth pete_dushenski the acolyte :
assbot: Erdős number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo: <jurov> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number << mathematicians' wot << My two math professors in Undergrad were a 3, and a Nope
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah, "the hungarian number"
assbot: Erdős number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: knapsack. << When restricted to a knapsack I dunno that digging anything bigger than a hole to bury turds should be a bigger priority than evading the force restricting you to a knapsack
mircea_popescu: PeterL use example, dude tries to open a door by bashing his head against it. bystander "that's not how you open doors" other bystander to first bystander "you don't understand how the world works!"
gribble: Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper ...: <http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/johnharrin117920.html>; Treason - Wikiquote: <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Treason>; John Harington (inventor) - Wikiquote: <http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Harington_(inventor)>
asciilifeform: ;;google treason never prospers for the reason
asciilifeform: 'is it still a cult if the comet is parked in orbit and the magical juice will take you there?'
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu well if i came back positive in my assessment, i'd send myself down the post-partum path. wasn't really in the mood for that.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: actual shovel, like actual computer, is not field-portable. << Depends on the size of field, and on whether or not portage enhancers are available
mircea_popescu: PeterL it's an expression, referencing the case when putin handed obimbo's butt to him for the nth time and the english propaganda yelled "putin doesn't understand how the world works!"
mircea_popescu: PeterL you don't understand how the world works!
PeterL: mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: look at Detroit: high taxes, city is crumbling - Detroit Suburbs: lower taxes, flourishing
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: avoid the ones with folding handles.
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/20/software-doesnt-fail-socialism-does/#comment-4498 << saf is on a roll atm. loving these comments
mircea_popescu: summary of pete_dushenski last piece : "cult member casually examines the possibility of being in a cult, comes back negative."
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> if everyone gets that tattooed, say on their butt, is the b-a more like a) a cult with weird body mod overtones ; b) a gaggle of ditzy teenaged girls (and therefore, a buncha fags) ; c) none of the above ? < b
asciilifeform: at the risk of bringing everyone back to childhood msdos 'hello world': what's the smallest bitwise recognizable porn?
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> if sim city has taught me anything: cut taxes to 0 << srsly, you too ?!
mircea_popescu: pubic qr codes, with porn in them
mircea_popescu: if everyone gets that tattooed, say on their butt, is the b-a more like a) a cult with weird body mod overtones ; b) a gaggle of ditzy teenaged girls (and therefore, a buncha fags) ; c) none of the above ?
mircea_popescu: question for the group :
asciilifeform: even the successful crackpots (at least, the ones publicly known about) were never more than a few steps away from a 'trunk line' wot mentor.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> (spoiler: pretty much everyone who is known to matter, is in leibniz, gauss, etc. 'wot.') << in this sense, the hungarian number = crude wot.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the maniacal fuhrer position is, afaik, open at the moment << was shockley's transistor a cult ?
pete_dushenski: lol i meant the cult expert bit. a well
asciilifeform: i suppose this was inevitable. the moldbug generation wants to run for u.s. office...
asciilifeform: old posts load, but no way afaik to find them now.
thestringpuller: if sim city has taught me anything: cut taxes to 0, make factories everywhere and have them pay the bills
asciilifeform: but was filled in the past (e.g., pythagoras)
asciilifeform: cult << incidentally, mathematics (as a professional or even amateur pursuit) fits more or less every extant definition of 'cult'
mircea_popescu: make them out of plastic!
mircea_popescu: teepees are better for the environment!
mircea_popescu: !up themediator
jurov: what is the domain exactly?
ben_vulpes: plz do then tell mircea_popescu what they are and (pretty please) he will configure records appropriately
jurov: ben_vulpes and what about the move to 0xdeadbeef.org or such?
jurov: ben_vulpes: but i added the rules only yesterday
ben_vulpes: it worked so i didn't poke at it further
pete_dushenski: ^ thestringpuller
pete_dushenski: he's from around here and i recognize the name...
mircea_popescu: police breaking down door, which obviously imperils someone - such as the random bystander, is a-ok. naming agents however MIGHT imperil someone, such as an asshole abusing his offical status to powerplay. this is very un-ok.
mircea_popescu: The government tries to minimize publicity about the names of agents investigating cases involving potentially violent criminals. "The information (about agents) he gave out might threaten somebody's safety -- the information that he broadcast could imperil somebody," Ashman said.
pete_dushenski: and one with a structure quite unfamiliar to the western reader
assbot: Let’s Cut To The Chase, Is La Serenissima A Cult? | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
bounce: yeah, but "packets" with modulated fax signal in a sampled-and-compressed voice channel is rather tricky to get right. better to demodulate the fax and send the data.
bounce: IIRC they demodulate the fax and send the data over voip, then remodulate on the other end (or just hand you the fax data, if they can)
mircea_popescu: which is why the "terrorist" members of the public don't want the government to have "capabilities"
asciilifeform: (gone are the days when a live monkey had to plug a tape recorder into your pair)
asciilifeform: incidentally, these are usually accessed via www now, and quite a few have been loudly pwned
asciilifeform: even the automagic bugging machine mandated at every telco switch is specified, in grindingly pedantic detail, in a dead tree standards doc
asciilifeform: 'POTS' (voice telephone) service exists pretty much at the decree of usg, mainly for its own purposes
asciilifeform: although, on second thought, not sure if it was pumping the full 14.4. there's auto-rate in there.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think that's mandated, buried in the license language somewhere 500 pages deep
assbot: Parallel Port Interface to the Private Eye P4 Head-Mounted Display
asciilifeform: (similar to this one, also theirs, http://www.loper-os.org/vintage/paralleleye/eye.html )
bounce: there's a bigger pattern here though
dub has had to fax in the last couple of years
bounce: more reason to support it then
mircea_popescu: by the time you explain what you want you could have drawn it five times over.
mircea_popescu: bounce that's because their language fucking sucks.
mircea_popescu: the "i don't plan to use the capability" thing makes me wonder : isn't it strange that "infertility" isn't the leading thing in dating sites and comedian's routines re dating sites ?
bounce: I don't *plan* on using that sort of thing, but if I'm building a phone it's gotta have the capability
asciilifeform: i bet they're just dying of boredom. won't somebody help.
asciilifeform: incidentally, i bet there's still a battalion at ft meade in charge of curating a library of sploits for fax machines.
bounce: carries law protection and the receipt is valid in court
bounce: instead of waiting in the queue, write letter, fax, get reception receipt
asciilifeform: afaik no one else bothers with fac
mircea_popescu: bounce you seriously duly received an actual fax in the course of business ?
bounce: but having "an app" to talk to such a gateway would be on the list
bounce: sure. though +/- 30v is a bit of a pain. and anyway, nobody does that these days, you'd interface through a 'net gateway somewhere.
bounce: so I'd have modem and fax support as well as voice and sms and whatnot. whether you use it is up to you.
bounce: 'sides, the point of building a phone is to have access to all the capabilities on offer with the networks it gives access to
mircea_popescu: i dunno, maybe i'm weird, but the only actual point of calling, ie voice, would be a woman, and rather than call (ie, on phone) i'd always prefer to call (ie, bitch get on plane)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but you'd use the "phone" to push text anyway.
bounce is initially thinking of something like the 6310, only updated hardware. can easily still be b/w lcd. no need for fancy shit there.
ben_vulpes: i want to hook into the cell network from my laptop; make/receive calls etc
asciilifeform: closed firmware though. but they take 'hayes modem' commands and present a pcm device for voice.
bounce: well, that's why you order the things built in shenzen
ben_vulpes: why should there be a "phone" object instead of a thing one plugs into computers that provides a /dev/phone?
mircea_popescu: bounce afaik there is still no good phone os
bounce: of the feature phone OS kind, no full linux and shit
asciilifeform: on the moon, perhaps a piece of fine roquefort cheese exists.
asciilifeform: johntraveller: and own logic cell library, own synthesis toolchain.
mircea_popescu: they exist.
johntraveller: asciilifeform: maybe some chinese kid will try and build his own lisp machine. sadly they’re not there yet
mircea_popescu: bounce spite is the only real engine of human progress.
mircea_popescu: THIS will be the next step in b-a terrorism.
asciilifeform: they'll be retrofitted with mumetal shields, at ruinous public expense, i bet
asciilifeform: bringing the inevitable chaos
asciilifeform: at some point, some joker somewhere will build the one that latches onto and inductively charges from aerial mains cables
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform better yet, thing should know where the batteries are kept, fly over, change ITSELF. let the spare charge.
asciilifeform: then, 4-5 hrs. of charger.
mircea_popescu: bounce but one specifically optimised for the role of following you around taking pictures of things. like a sort of gopro with ai.
asciilifeform: chetty: rather than serious enemy
asciilifeform: chetty: afaik the 'fingerprint' pnohes are intended to keep the common pickpocket out of your cached logins, until you can send remote-zap command
mircea_popescu: you know, ever since the photo debate with bounce a few days ago, i'm kinda curious to see this photography drone gadget. imagine all the YOLO picutres taken by this orbiting drone thing.
asciilifeform: the kind which contain login creds
johntraveller: bounce: a dutch entrepreneur in the city I’m moving to had his own tablet built a few years back
asciilifeform: but original thread was about the perils of pNohes
mircea_popescu: you really should own the box.
asciilifeform: even in the most elementary case, using none of these, pwner can lock you out of own mailbox
mircea_popescu: ah, the blessings of not actually using any of those.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: esp. given all the idiot www gadgets that don't use pgp, and allow mail-based pw resets
kakobrekla: it seems i found 'the no guy' > http://bitbet.us/stats/14wqgUXyHpuzyuwfYssfeLuL1YtZpeVkcR/
mircea_popescu: "There is no motherfucking reason conceivable or inconceivable that x.org should depend on netbase." i say!
bounce: and do a network side that isn't as full of holes as the current crop, and do proper separation, and provide a full off of the wireless side while leaving the other functions available, and so on.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if mail is used correctly (send/received armored gpg blobs) this yields no further information than already available.
chetty: true, but we do what little we can ...(mostly I use the off button atm)
bounce: yes, and to fix that you'd really need to redesign the protocol
asciilifeform: chetty: the only exception, really, is the 'pwned phone listens at all times' and 'pwned phone dumps www/mail logins to pwner'
asciilifeform: chetty: much of what folks object to re: phones happens on the tower end.
bounce: more like, have a couple drafts laying around, should probably try and merge them
johntraveller: sadly not that exciting. mostly stuff around mobile marketing. my friend is the kind of guy involved in multiple pies though
jurov: johntraveller: the qntra writers are rewarded by shares
johntraveller: mircea_popescu: so I’m moving back to china in a couple of weeks. (working with my russian friend on a bunch of mobile-related projects). depending on how much money there is in it, my 1st thought is find a local finance student who could research/write part-time?
mircea_popescu: also i wish it entered into the record that romania was at no point during its ~2500ish year history sane. not ever.
jurov: today is the ipo, tomorrow is GLORY
BingoBoingo: Definitely a glory hole in qntra's coverage there
mircea_popescu: johntraveller one major thing is that qntra doesn't/can't quite follow chinese language news atm. if you can bridge that gap there's glory in there.
asciilifeform: johntraveller: outside of the anglo world, there is (or at least, until recently, was) a bacchanalia of xenophiliac idiocy ('let's copy usa! they have cadillacs and we have trabant, they must be clever')
mircea_popescu: on the plus side, it's very easy to see the craziness of romanian o wait. nope. listen, somehow english speakers had a lot of trouble figuring out exactly how and exactly where ro nonsense was broken, back in the 90s.
johntraveller: asciilifeform: oh yeah, you’re right. my theory was that people like MP or taleb, who grew up in somewhat sane cultures, instinctively see the craziness of anglo-american ideas. if you grew up in the english speaking world it’s harder to see that
asciilifeform: johntraveller: afaik his stepfather, usg diplomat, dragged him to several places around the empire
johntraveller: asciilifeform: yeah. I also get the sense he hasn’t travelled much. living abroad makes it much easy to see your own cultural matrix, so to speak
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i have this earlier convo burnished in my memory, me: "you know, it's quite possible you'll die there" op: "eh, fuckit. i'm too old anyway." me: "you're twenty four!"
mircea_popescu avoids starting a rant on the topic as he's ranted recently and is well rantsated :D