BingoBoingo: And waiting seems to be the only solution to get my arm hair back
BingoBoingo: The US immingration issue is best understood when you consider that most prospective immigrants come to flee more restrictive and more socialistoid states (e.g. India, China)
PeterL: decimation no, I would get the government out of the healthcare business, but I am resigned that will never happen
decimation: BingoBoingo: you hit the nail on the head. 'health insurance' is basically 'health welfare' now
BingoBoingo: PeterL> decimation: you might be right. My employer (from what my coworkers tell me) has to go through a ton of red tape and paperwork to keep them here << Grandpa pays the same $80/month for medicare part B
PeterL: decimation: you might be right. My employer (from what my coworkers tell me) has to go through a ton of red tape and paperwork to keep them here
PeterL: Speaking of bezzle, I just did my yearly health insurance signup. makes me mad how much I have to pay now, about 4 times as much as two years ago for the same crappy plan
BingoBoingo: Right. The Usian profs, were profs part time and clinical pharmacists full time
decimation: PeterL: no doubt there are bright foreigners working in the us. I would suggest that they are here despite the existing immigration policy, not because of it
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: employers don't want to feed the mortgage, etc. bezzlatron. and this is perfectly logical.
PeterL: Don't get me wrong, the group still has plenty of smart Americans as well
BingoBoingo: <PeterL> speaking of visas, the group I work in is about 1/3rd immigrants, these are really smart people and the US is better off with them here. << This was the case when I TA'd pharm school. No AMericans apparently want to study/teach med chem
PeterL: speaking of visas, the group I work in is about 1/3rd immigrants, these are really smart people and the US is better off with them here.
asciilifeform: whether on present-day 64GB monster or pdp-10.
asciilifeform: the seeds of rot are in any deviation from 'fits in head.'
asciilifeform: decimation: turns out, these don't work all that well.
asciilifeform: decimation: the original point was 'human compilers.'
decimation: asciilifeform: you raise a good point about the h1b whining. the real problem is: how do 'tech' companies manage to profitably 'employ' legions of unskilled workers tasked with doing nothing of use?
asciilifeform: likewise, 'at the bottom' - on SR, SR2, idiot chumps' machines, etc
BingoBoingo: cazalla does the wordcounting
asciilifeform: actually, it's rather relevant.
assbot: Frank Zappa - Let's make the water turn black - YouTube
asciilifeform: whither shitfalls in nature?
gribble: Let's Make the Water Turn Black - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let's_Make_the_Water_Turn_Black>; Inventionis Mater - Wait 'till the fire turns green! (Frank Zappa) - Live ...: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-LYJSAMWTg>; Frank Zappa - Let's make the water turn black - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcsF_QkMCpQ>
mircea_popescu: ;;google until the water turns brown zappa
mircea_popescu: just make the water brown
asciilifeform: fecal << if somebody wants to do a similar job involving a 'nitrogen fixation cycle' graphic, why the hell not.
asciilifeform puts ancient 'wacom' away for another year or two.
Adlai: and there i was, reading it as "squinter"
BingoBoingo: In other news picked up a new sharp object today for pencil sharpening and protecting the starfish against less than state level malefactors.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm only doing this because you said who ever wants can use. Will then be used to put you on the cunt raw
Adlai: it almost looked like a satire of some hypothetical nice tidy explanation of how ether flows about or whoknowswhattardation
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm going to put in on qntra. List the steps under it, as list you as the author so you get the shares for the text.
dub: then I'd be slumming on exec money
Adlai: the deed system does seem like a step forwards from gribble-wot
mircea_popescu: dub i dunno, what am i, the micromanaging tyrant of a cult ?
mircea_popescu: and since the b-a domain is so powerful, you'll prolly fuck up their google fu forever.
Adlai hastily mutters something about the lack of proper impersonal pronouns
mircea_popescu: the ONLY way it can become something other than a dump is inextricably linked to getting the legal system, so.
Adlai: something like "I negrate the person known as ABC and/or XYZ, holder of passport number 123456789"
mircea_popescu: for as long as the place is a dump inhabited by mexicans and indians, its not really needed
mircea_popescu: well, exactly like there was missing a way to sue people in the western terrirories.
Adlai: although still missing is a way of negrating people who aren't yet in the wot
Adlai: "outside the law" and "sue" now take on tiered meanings, with each transgression offering up a new avenue of redress. i like this.
BingoBoingo: Goes back to if there is an unauthorized Penguin edition of a nubbins' #B-A book. Penguin gets real sued.
mircea_popescu: so today, if one is in the wot, he gets neg'd. and if is not... club->head, according to what that means currently, ie, sued in a fiat court of "law".
mircea_popescu: this lasted until a year or two ago , and which point the wot became the legal system. at this point necessarily the previous, obsolete fiat cvasi-legal system became the club->head method.
mircea_popescu: centuries ago, the natural mode of administering justice was, club over head. the legal system was developed as a better alternative to this. so, if one was reachable by the courts, you'd sue. if not however, club->head.
Adlai has read "GPG Contracts" and "Complete Theory of Economics" already, although may be fuzzy on the details
Adlai: negrating is more akin to merely filing them
mircea_popescu: wot. the only law.
mircea_popescu: the contemporary equivalent of "i'll send a bunch of rogues to stab you in the throat"
mircea_popescu: then it is quite clear what it means. i'll sue.
assbot: there were about 20 FBI agents searching my neighbor’s tesla and suv earlier today in the mission. /hashtag/mystery?src=hash http://t.co/o5YZmFnKpO
Adlai: negrating doesn't hurt anybody who's not in the WoT, and a fair amount (all?) of copyrasta economic activity is done outside of the WoT...
mircea_popescu: Adlai at the very least that i'll negrate you if you do ?
BingoBoingo: <Adlai> out of curiosity, in the brave new GPG economy, what's the use of claiming "This contract is protected as copyrighted material. It may not be reused by different parties without the express permission of MPEx." ? << Basically to hurt the copyrastas
Adlai: out of curiosity, in the brave new GPG economy, what's the use of claiming "This contract is protected as copyrighted material. It may not be reused by different parties without the express permission of MPEx." ?
Adlai: Q:"what do you do?" A:"i'm a career student" Q:"damn, how are the student loans hitting you?" A:"actually, i just got tenured"
Adlai: in primary school, we had "social studies" class... let's just call them that, and the members of this field - "social students"
mircea_popescu: in the sense that f(!x) = 0.
Adlai: the amount of software needed is much less relevant than its quality, which isn't correlated to man-months in any simple/linear fashion
mircea_popescu: the market may be positive or negative-sum, it all depends.
mircea_popescu: the shortcut to this being, go work for a trader, write software to improve process.
mircea_popescu: there is exactly one avenue to do that : make it so good some actual trader starts using it, after which go work for him.
Adlai: participation in the brainstorm requires accepting into your heart the axiom that the market is a positive-sum game
mircea_popescu: Adlai waiting for them to prequalify via tits article first.
Adlai hopes you submitted one or both requests to the BitLicense committee
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes time for bitcoin foundation to issue a statement that the only thing bitcoin needs is for politicians and other leeches to stfu and go away ?
Adlai: here, we see the financier in his natural habitat, conducting the daily post-accounting scrollback review
mircea_popescu: The20YearIRCloud: proverbial cake and eating it too <<< and yet none of your renters seem to want free money ?!
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: how they convinced the masses to contribute millions...i just will never understand <<< the same way they convinced the masses that russia invaded atlanta, georgia.
mircea_popescu: everyone at the retirement home.
mircea_popescu: anyway, gotta love how the us propaganda machine studiously omits to mention who this entire "sec letters!!11" trend is trying to immitate. totally works, boyz, srsly. cuz nobody knows anything, everyone gets his informations from wired.com.
mircea_popescu: bounce: you know, if the IRS says that virtual currencies aren't currencies, how can the SEC keep on claiming they are? << you're new here aren't you.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: If the day ever comes where you want to switch professions from engineer to gangsta, I'm totally down to ride or die with you. Lets just hope it never comes to that ;) <<< if you two do that, a film is guaranteed.
mircea_popescu: dude who the fuck keeps upping ninjashogun
mircea_popescu: decimation: most folks today never learn about the complete Apocalypse that faced german people after wwii <<< i hear berlin chicks had a lot of fun in '45.
assbot: The guy who bought a Tesla with Bitcoin? It was the "DPR2" from Silk Road....pillar of industry : Buttcoin
jurov: http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2li3gq/the_guy_who_bought_a_tesla_with_bitcoin_it_was/ << crankbait discussed
assbot: Re: [Bitcoin-development] The difficulty of writing consensus critical code: the SIGHASH_SINGLE bug
BingoBoingo: A, well. Hard to fire people when there isn't a payroll...
cazalla: https://blockchain.info/address/148MpUsfJvgv5xGWvVqKLeVuuvy3pN8QGg one of the guy's alleged addresses
mircea_popescu: punkman shit how the f do i know which one ?
mircea_popescu: jurov da fuck do they know.
BingoBoingo: Crank bait also refers to a sort of fishing lure with parts that move in the water to increase the attention it commands of the fish
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=crankbait | crankbait. When screwing a man/woman doggy-style, you fish hook her mouth to one side so that she must look at you, then, you nut in her eye. Ohh, I just had to ...
thestringpuller: ^- there we go better than ;;ud
thestringpuller: "could you use it in a sentence" "asciilifeform: der wagen was decorated with a number of 'end the fed' stickers. apparently this is considered adequate crank bait."
asciilifeform: 'crank bait' is a deliberate (whether engineered or through sheer neglect) hole in an Official narrative, whose purpose is to do for doubters what a 'bug zapper light' does for insects.
asciilifeform: this blake guy was reguarly active... << you meant to say 'an account by the name of xxx was active...'
cazalla: this blake guy was reguarly active on github till sept 28th and then nothing
jurov: "i wont ramble here, have other stuff to do... to ramble on inkedin and twatter"
jurov: that would be good theme for oglaf
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2014/11/the-blake-benthall-complain-full-text/
assbot: The Blake Berthall Silk Road 2.0 Complaint, Fulltext /hashtag/deturdified?src=hash http://t.co/nHr1BRFFA7 /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hash
assbot: The Blake Benthall Complain, full text | Qntra.net
The20YearIRCloud: At any rate, good progress. Especially when you consider the apprasials came within close margin of what i had them valued at, cementing the fact that we're making equity on each renovation we do. No equity cashout spiral problems to think of, bank is getting their LTV rate and we're making $15k per property in fanciable equity. So, I am getting the
thestringpuller: ah. so in theory shareholders are also part homeowners? :P
thestringpuller: paid for or is there loan?
thestringpuller: so these are apartments? duplexes? houses?
thestringpuller: The20YearIRCloud what is average rent of tenant?
mike_c: quite the empire brewing.
The20YearIRCloud: Met w/ bank today, loan program(s) look good they're continuing to offer us
thestringpuller: we just have to wait for this all to explode before the go away like magicaltux?
thestringpuller: how they convinced the masses to contribute millions...i just will never understand
asciilifeform: so very necessary. (to the enemy.)
thestringpuller: Ugh Ethereum is so unnecessary.
dub: all 7 of them
thestringpuller: dub: read your comment first then opened the page. hilarity ensued by great means. thank you for that.
bounce: ``Other than Garrett Keirns, none of the companies that WIRED reached out to this week have received SEC letters. But some of them also also want to work with the SEC to make these technologies more widely available.'' -- this is going to carry a heavy price.
bounce: you know, if the IRS says that virtual currencies aren't currencies, how can the SEC keep on claiming they are?
asciilifeform: '...could affect promising Bitcoin 2.0 projects such as Ethereum, MaidSafe, and Counterparty.' << let rabid dogs breed, then shoot them. such victory.
bounce: stick your fancy "research" paper in slideshare, so it's not really readable on screen and will only download on the very latest of browsers. share and enjoy!
asciilifeform: for some reason, no one ever says 'when you suddenly switch profession to surgeon, i wanna be the first fella you cut open!' etc.
thestringpuller: If the day ever comes where you want to switch professions from engineer to gangsta, I'm totally down to ride or die with you. Lets just hope it never comes to that ;)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: as jay-z said, "Gave my life to the block, figured I get shot 'least I die on top"
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: wanna chip in, chip in for my coffin, should i ever end up in a position where forced to attempt the above.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: in practice - i am what i am.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i 'could' under same logic become an internationally-renowned violinist. or olympic athlete. or wtf else.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: well it may not be to say, Tito Lopez, or Tyrone who live in the hood.
asciilifeform: i'm not a concert violinist either. everyone sticks to what he at least vaguely knows.
thestringpuller: xiando: the concerning issue for me is the US OTC market will become as dangerous as drug dealing. If you need a duffelbag full of cash to complete the transaction, then I'd be more worried about rival gang members.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: can always build yourself << why not build a nuke sub, then. if you can.
xiando: thestringpuller: Several US states claim that you need a money transmitter license to buy or sell BTC worth more than $300/year, search and you will find several cases of people being arrested for doing so. :-/ (not a joke)
kakobrekla: all my expenses (the little that i have) are payable in paper money.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: point is, i could (if studied, hah) trade btc for benjies. but then what.
thestringpuller: but it would seem dealing BTC is similar to drug dealing inside the US
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: aha. (rent, though, no mortgage, but right.)
thestringpuller: it's not irony. whenever you get to the trap spot it's life or death man.
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trapping | Trapping is a form of dance explored by the inebriated. It involves the elevation of your forearms above your head trapping your face into an x formation while ...
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: regarding: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-09-2014#833679 << What's so bad about a little trappin? As the first commandment of the Book of Jeezy says, "Don't get caught"
mike_c: oh.. that would be great trolling. footnotes at the bottom of an endless scroll :D
mike_c: ilikebitbet: that's actually being added to the bitbet analyzer on btcalpha, so you could check back there in a week or two.
punkman: maybe I should make the calculator work on windows
kakobrekla: well id rather not write the current estimation that changes through time under 'btc out' column
BingoBoingo: Almost like he's the aspersor Fuher or something.
bounce: ``in the last year or so, weve seen regulators such as the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) come out with guidelines. The challenge would be to not get over-regulated and kill innovation'' -- gavin. http://www.theregister.co.uk/Print/2014/11/06/bitcoin_remittance_unstable_currency_regulation/
mircea_popescu: gotta support the team.
asciilifeform: srsly, these questions.
asciilifeform: just read the damn thing.
mircea_popescu: it's how the chain is stored/processed
asciilifeform: the bdbisms are soaked into just about all of it, though
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform: db_cxx.h would have the bdb functions used across the bitcoind codebase, correct? <<< mmmmmmostly
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla thats not static :D << the alternative is actually something a la usb drive mess discussed a week ago or so
kakobrekla: what's the alternative, ship gnu/linux with predefined users for all possible programs?
z33andO_o: https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkNetMarkets/comments/2lhin9/onymous_mega_thread_upvote_for_visibility/ if anyone cares. It is not just SR2 and Hydra, (almost) all DarkNet markets are either down or showing a siezure message.
bounce: o_O what's the alternative, a dynamically allocated user?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: db_cxx.h would have the bdb functions used across the bitcoind codebase, correct?
z33andO_o: and a few others are just down
z33andO_o: Interesting: It is not just SR2, this is a coodinated. I took a brief look at the other darknet markets
z33andO_o: As I understand it they got the SR1 wallet by recovering a deleted unencrypted version of it, who knows if he learnt from that
z33andO_o: We will just have to wait for some "news outlets" to tell us how much was in SR2 escrow at the time and how much this Benthall had personally (if they managed to steal his personal coins)
punkman: how much did they take now?
z33andO_o: I do not see this mentioned here, honeypot Silk Road 2 finally taken down by the FBI. No effect on dark net markets since it's market share was dvindling but it does mean the US government has managed to steal more BTC
bounce: The Muppet Show: Sex and Violence (pilot)
mircea_popescu: a you're ok then. ever stepped on a dead wasp ?
bounce: not last I checked. my name doesn't start with an s either.
mircea_popescu: are you the dead serrorist ?
bounce: only because that other guy's name doesn't. doesn't make for a winning argument though.
bounce: the section between r and t in my dictionary
bounce: the gn00 guys also socialist. poettering not so much, though. why u no liek systemd?
mircea_popescu: which is why its replacement figured majorily in the prev discussion of bringing pgp implementation up to snuff
mircea_popescu: anyway, re the thinkers : i'm pretty sure the symmetric cypher is currently the weakest link in our entire crypto stack.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bounce anyway, i don't think we've really managed to talk of the same thing, so i guess this entire quesiton will come back in teh futures.
asciilifeform: where are the 'thinkers'
bounce: even with the shorter key the symmetric cipher is thought to be stronger than the asymmetric cipher
assbot: CiteSeerX — Generating ElGamal signatures without knowing the secret key
mircea_popescu: for one thing, dsa/elgamal uses dsa key for signing not encryption. for the other, the symmetric block cypher is not so very large anyway/
asciilifeform: the h1b folks are brought in mainly to churn out pseudoscientific papers (the ones i personally worked with at one point) and to crank out 'ruby on rails' and 'java' crud.
asciilifeform: to round off my argument (i'm about to drive off for a spell) the 'pliant, obedient people who gotta suck it up or the lights won't turn on' aren't the h1b folks. they're the phactory gurlz in shenzhen.
bounce: er, AIUI it ought to work just fine most of the time, but I did it more to see if I could do it than anything else.
asciilifeform: 'The Dirmngr is now part of GnuPG proper and also takes care of accessing keyserver.' << ahaha, we just luv new lib deps
punkman: "Creation of X.509 certificates has been improved. It is now also possible to export them directly in PKCS#8 and PEM format for use on TLS servers." << anyone here tried to generate ssl certs with GPG yet?
bounce: the cloud maybe? (see new --extra-safe-honest flag)
punkman: " The file "secring.gpg" is not anymore used to store the secretkeys." << so where did they put them?
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: i'm not seeing anything i actually want in there...
mircea_popescu: the proposition that "all things that are carry purpose equally so" is fallacious, and for that matter gnoseosocialism!
bounce: inasmuch that a random motor block conducts electricity. sure, but that's not really the point of it being shaped like a motor.
mircea_popescu: so now : all these run entirely on quantum mechanics. the box and the cpu. this is directly equivalent to saying "stinks of running entirely on chumps, chumpatron". so ?
mircea_popescu: i have a computer here, it runs this irc session. right next to it, i have a wooden box. it is ALSO MADE OF MOLECULES. it runs nothing. they form a society of the items in my house. they're all molecules. i wouldn't fucking notice if the entire fucking wooden box went away.
bounce: leaders that can't lead lead to nowhere. if you can't anything but the meekest you're no good as a leader.
bounce: that's an easy one to shoot down. if they need that they're no good themselves and you need better people who matter no matter what.
mircea_popescu: harkens back to the entire "how come 300 milion usians living in the best world ever don't produce about 500 renoirs a year ?"
mircea_popescu: in any case, whatever they need they get, and that means you'll issue hb1 visas to obedient indians if those are the only obedient people to be found.
mircea_popescu: to try and heal this utterly scattered conversation : if you properly ignore most of society, the whole shebang depends on keeping the few that matter huming. if they hum too slow it cools and dies entirely. if they hum too fast it explodes, and you get a golden age.
mircea_popescu: rare as shit, but for the sake of argument.
mircea_popescu: myeah, 150k the lowest. aite...
asciilifeform: 'A few years back, one dreadful boy ran up to me and said, Mr. Bradbury? Yes? I said. That book of yours, The Martian Chronicles? he said. Yes, I said. On page 92 where you have the moons of Mars rising in the east? Yeah, I said. Nah, he said. So I hit him. Ill be damned if Ill be bullied by bright children.'
mircea_popescu: might be there a loooong time tho.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, and in the sense that all uranium decays, all people are people and matter.
mircea_popescu: neither. for the purpose of the above, "doped uranium" = natural uranium ore. inert uranium with traces of radioactive uranium.
bounce: we're talking about upping the u238 content, wasn't it?
mircea_popescu: not the best word.
mircea_popescu: what the DUP does is entirely irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: to better understand this, consider doped uranium. some doped uranium is shaped in pellets, other doped uranium is shaped in bars. the only thing that actually matters is whether the uranium is doped with radioactive material or not.
mircea_popescu: and so : technology has nothing to do with it. if the technology is "have 10 people do dances" or if the technology is "stay indoors and pile things"
bounce: quite a few rilly smrt people populating silly valley. they produce things like... "social networks" and many many cookie-cutter technology companies. it doesn't seem that h1b folks, no matter how smart or many, can hope to seriously dent that dominion
mircea_popescu: whether at point A the three were motivated to work and at point B they were not is the clou of the matter.
mircea_popescu: allowing this as a fact : that at point A the three that mattered used thirty others to dance the ramma-butta, whereas at point B the three that mattered simply stayed indoors and piled items on top of other items is not what's relevant.
mircea_popescu: suppose out of a hundred people, ninety-seven don't matter. ever. irrespective of any consideration, if god strikes them down tomorrow nothing happens.
asciilifeform: the availability of zamac doesn't cause crud to be produced in lieu of genuine article. or does it?
mircea_popescu: my proposition is that this is entirely besides the point.
asciilifeform: 'good soldiers' - sure. but they're serving in an 'army' whose sole purpose appears to be 'painting the grass green.'
asciilifeform: if so, they're sucking a titanic phantom cock that never shoots its load
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect the bulk of they shipped in are "luxury workers", which is to say cocksuckers.
asciilifeform: true, but not entirely connected to the h1b thing:
mircea_popescu: back when shooting artillery upon the strikers was the publicly acceptable approach, ford and carnegie could dominate whole industries, and build the capital that's still to this day supporting us spending, that "full faith and credit".
mircea_popescu: because france had a king and italy did not, it was able to import glassworks from france (and silk from china) and become a major producer, running it out of the market.
mircea_popescu: the case study for this is renaissance france.
asciilifeform: scrap gravity a hundred times, rocket somehow did not get the memo
asciilifeform: that's rather like 'scrapped gravity'
asciilifeform: i'm just not seeing the 'scrapped hierarchy' thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can't maintain intellectual dominance without political dominance, you can't maintain political dominance without social hierarchy. the us decided to scrap hierarchy. of fucking course it can no longer have intelligent people working in its workshops, whatever they may be.
asciilifeform: h1b engineers << afaik none of the folks who specialize in whining on the subject have publicly written re: how the particular kind of 'engineering' now popular in usa and its colonies makes the use of coolie labour not only possible, but mandatory.
punkman: jurov, I just sent a mail to the list
punkman: jurov, what was the bug?
jurov: i just found bug that has bit ben_vulpes, he was the first one who sent message from email actually matching his gpg pubkey :)
jurov: is there anyone around who can test btc-dev mailing list around CET working time?
mircea_popescu: decimation: well, there's little doubt in my mind that the reason h1b visas are 'tech' targeted is because engineers have the least political pull in the us <<< they happen to be the only people who have an actual something to do, and so aren't quite as motivated to politics by the gnawing existential void that pushes the paper pushers.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo:. << Generally the way this work in US [...] << yup, exactly that.