mircea_popescu: "[3] Peter Thiel would point out that successful founders still get rich from controlling monopolies, just monopolies they create rather than ones they capture. And while this is largely true, it means a big change in the sort of person who wins."
ben_vulpes: anyways, i'm off for the night.
decimation: well, it seems like the ddoser has taught us that aws is pretty solid
punkman: nah, I'll put it on my DO account so I don't have to bother anyone
punkman: I'll split up the web part
punkman: but if you wanna setup secure box for the IRC bot part, that'd be welcome
ben_vulpes is ignorant of all the finer things in life
ben_vulpes: doesn't lead crystal risk dosing the users with lead?
punkman: I got a set or two, they usually survive small falls
ben_vulpes: in the house in which i grew up were*
mircea_popescu: (aka bohemian glass, aka "swarowksy" these days)
ben_vulpes: subject of crystal, i was washing one out this evening and it struck me how fragile all of civilization is. take that glass - wash it in water too warm or too hot or switch the temperature too abruptly and the thing will whine and fall apart in your hands.
decimation: where one carefully condemns the horrible behavior of white cops while studiously ignoring the horrible behavior of black 'civilians'
mircea_popescu: because socialism always moves on to the cheaper alternative, this being the true definition of progress. "where your dad had crystal glasses and imported liqueurs, you now get asphalt under the elements and a half-dung joint"
mircea_popescu: a camping trip in the ghetto sprawl.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> i'm sure it was a good time for all involved. joints, flasks, conversation that all agreed on important topics... << notice what the cocktail party of the 70s has turned into.
mircea_popescu: undata> hell to most of the people alive, that's the rational position to take >> quite.
mircea_popescu: there's a few jurisdictions scattered around counting a few hundred million souls that are trying an experiment on the topic currently
mircea_popescu: societies where husbands own the wife are always in a dire shortage of men
mircea_popescu: it makes the "abortion is moral" debate what it belongs being : a moot question.
decimation: well, that doesn't settle the issue of whether abortion is moral, but it certainly extinguishes "but it's a woman's right!" argument
mircea_popescu: <decimation> undata: abortion is a complex issue that ends up being used as a wedge on both sides << abortion is only "complex" because it is undefined. the actualy issue is, who owns the woman. if the husband owns the wife "abortion" is no problem. if the wife owns the husband, idem. nonsensical "middle of the road" dualities that can't stand, where the wife is really a husband all by herself, except not really are ne
mircea_popescu: <decimation> there's a point to this (the idea that the losing party claims 'philosophic victory'). but there's a long tradition of 'old republicans' predicting doom which more-or-less came true << same for the left.
mats_cd03: b-but think of the instagram and snapchat pics
decimation: well, the aging hippies who run usg like to see a few protest-arrests on a resume
undata: these kids... a "demonstration" as a fucking social-signaling ritual
ben_vulpes: lulziest part of the whole action in this area
ben_vulpes: undata: did you hear about the part where the "protesters" briefly endeavored to get up on the highway and were chivvied similarly politely back onto the surface roads by the 5-0?
decimation: apparently the 'oath keepers' showed up to provide security and were told to leave after 'media inquiries' http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/article_f90b6edd-acf8-52e3-a020-3a78db286194.html
decimation: in retrospect the seeds of of ruin were already sown - but that time existed
decimation: 'american capitalism' did exist, in the sense that a little over 100 years ago, people used gold coins (or receipts for the same) and private bank notes
decimation: or they are marginalized
decimation: agreed. There was a time when this wasn't the case, but those guys are nearly all dead now
undata: even the "right" is way too socialist to advocate "american capitalism", if there ever was such a thing
decimation: perhaps it is dying (or dead) - but to me that means the idea of 'america' as anything more than a pile of spoils to be divided is dead
decimation: there's a point to this (the idea that the losing party claims 'philosophic victory'). but there's a long tradition of 'old republicans' predicting doom which more-or-less came true
undata: whether that's an opportunity for something better to come along is questionable imo, and goes back to the "can't think" problem
undata: though the marketing is getting less effective, it seems
assbot: Voter turnout in 2014 was the lowest since WWII - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1rIW6r1 )
undata: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/11/10/voter-turnout-in-2014-was-the-lowest-since-wwii/
undata: yep, things like "o no abortion" on the "right" are just marketing
mircea_popescu: and for that matter : in the 70s ? dude totally the voter agreed "philosophically" with the progressives.
mircea_popescu: so you know, either the redheaded or the brunette is busy squealing, while the other's sitting in a corner thinking of jesus and sin.
mircea_popescu: the losers are "principled" and the winners are distributing largesse out of the public goods.
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, underpins all winner-loser scenarios on the broader timescale in all politcal systems to date.
assbot: Logged on 28-09-2014 04:06:55; decimation: and this one. http://www.vox.com/2014/9/15/6131919/democrats-and-republicans-really-are-different "And they note that while voters tend to agree with Republicans on the philosophical questions in American politics (should government be smaller?) they tend to agree with Democrats on the policy questions in American politics (like should Social Security be smaller?)."
decimation: well, one can ask humans what they think, but does that reveal anything?
decimation: Possibly. I get the feeling that republicans tend to be more ideological though
mircea_popescu: if obama comes to power and gives a bunch of tax money to a bunch of cronies, the democratic activists will see justice being done, and the republicans corruption.
mircea_popescu: the one (or the other) sees true love. the other (or the one) sees just sheer stupidity on his part and the nefariousness of that one (or the other) witch.
mircea_popescu: see, it's a summary, for sure, and it has what to stand on, but it's not necessarily the case that its footing will support any ulterior conclusion.
decimation: pretty much "the peasants realize they are being fucked and are pissed, but can do nothing"
mircea_popescu: decimation maybe. how do you proceed from there ?
mircea_popescu: well... you know that saying that, "given an artefact and a situation, the artefact will either work or it won't" ?
mircea_popescu: lol what the fuck else ?
undata: mircea_popescu: seems like a person who has been broken merely by realizing the fact of his own existence
decimation: gentleman appears as a noble act of charity, compassion, etc, to the coarse and cynical peasant reveals itself as a purchase of political power, with his tax dollars if not his physical safety. Therefore a vision of the gallows arises in his hindbrain."
decimation: sorry for the moldbug link, but he sums it up well: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.co.uk/2010/07/actual-letter-to-liberal-friend.html << "Peasants see a patron-client relationship between the gentlemen and the varlets - a relationship not at all unlike the late Roman relationship of _clientela_, where a patrician measured his social status by the vast army of plebeians that battened on his trenches. Again, what to the
mircea_popescu: that figure is always the same figure, not like psychology is now going to fucking progress or something.
undata: mircea_popescu: wow... "god" the imaginary aggregate of democratic demands
decimation: yeah, that's their exact problem, if they were to take any document-able action it would be counted as treason and usg would slam down
mircea_popescu: yea, wat then ? god'll think you'r somewhere between offensively stupid and hysterically funny.
undata: reminds me of the idiots that marched in downtown portland in response to ferguson
undata: also demonstrates the pervasive belief that talk = action
decimation: I just stumbled on this webpage: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/ << apparently there is an organization of us military who will keep their 'oath' to the constitution
mircea_popescu: in the simplest form : "don't call us, we'll call you"
undata: but I've always wanted to be in an environment where people would fight each other for the best idea
mircea_popescu: decimation everything everywhere is ruled by the ruthless. that's why the simple were promised the kingdom of heaven
mircea_popescu: he is nice who does not ever act upon any other.
decimation: the us is ruled by the ruthless; they just never show their face to the public and never appear on camera
undata: this "niceness" thing strikes me as a euphemism for obedient, if not to an explicit master then to the ubiquitous American religion of going with the flow
mircea_popescu: i get why it'd be nice for ruthlesness to carry the connotations meanness properly does. however, something being nice doesn't really do anything. if only it did, then the nice people'd be like mages, calling forth reality out of their fucking song.
mircea_popescu: a total fucking misnomer, by the way, what they mean is "ruthless". mean denotes something else, it's a sort of spiritual cheapness.
mircea_popescu: indeed : in order for the "only nice people" mantra to be "supported" after a fashion, one needs to be not only completely ignorant of the classics, but not even realise that the fucking central subject both in their writings and in their own, stated estimation, was "how to rule people", and this is in no small part a consideration of what they call "mean".
mircea_popescu: anyway, looking at it from the other angle, "check out what incredible cultural gymnastics the socialists need to justify and defend their ludicrous dogmas"
mircea_popescu: "come see paul graham read aramaic at the bottom of his start-up hat, and then translate it with the herpimm and the derpimm, two magical entrepreneurial stones from ancient egypt."
mircea_popescu: that problem, you know ? "o noes, james smith has reinveted the wheel!"
mircea_popescu: the problems he considers are in fact very rudimentary restatements of ancient considerations, and his complete unawareness of the space readily gives me ground to say "being a progressive makes you stupid".
mircea_popescu: at least, this was the approach favoured by socrates and his school (platon, aristotel). which brings us back to the problem with paul graham : he is exactly the sort of scandalous ignoramus the us produces these days.
mircea_popescu: of course, even should that be the merely unavoidable flow of things, proposing to stick with "nice people" as a palliative is not unlike proposing to stop eating because well, eating will in due course bring about your death.
mircea_popescu: there is of course also this (perhaps not entirely uninterested, perhaps even progressive-wetdream, perhaps actually correct) theory that ruthlessness rusts over time, and in the end you're always left with a psychopath.
mircea_popescu: the people who manage to distinguish the effectually ruthless from the merely psychopathic always come out ahead, whether they're otherwise great or not, intelligent or not, whatever their situation may be.
mircea_popescu: depends a fucking helluvalot WHAT, or as the case may be whom. the "best people" that are attracted to spineless idiots are never successful.
mircea_popescu: this is like saying "you can't get cool people to hang out in places where there's fire because fgire burns".
mircea_popescu: "Another reason mean founders lose is that they can't get the best people to work for them. They can hire people who will put up with them because they need a job. But the best people have other options. A mean person can't convince the best people to work for him unless he is super convincing. And while having the best people helps any organization, it's critical for startups."
mircea_popescu: out real problems. Which is particularly painful to someone who cares how their brain is used: your brain goes fast but you get nowhere, like a car spinning its wheels."
mircea_popescu: "Why? I think there are several reasons. One is that being mean makes you stupid. That's why I hate fights. You never do your best work in a fight, because fights are not sufficiently general. Winning is always a function of the situation and the people involved. You don't win fights by thinking of big ideas but by thinking of tricks that work in one particular case. And yet fighting is just as much work as thinking ab
assbot: Angelo Badalamenti explains how he wrote "Laura Palmer's Theme" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1pBtwft )
assbot: The endless story of Korea. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pBtiVt )
mircea_popescu: obviously sin breeds sin, had the generation of justices called to protect their country in the 1920s done a good job of it, the following generation wouldn't have seen itself confronted with "the government has stolen people's gold, whatcha gonna do about it"
mircea_popescu: yes, it's a landmark failure of the us legal system to protect the us the us pretends to be.
mircea_popescu: decimation excellent find, the euclid case.
mircea_popescu: the rteason the civilise west exists is specifically because fucking idiots got burned at the stake for being fucking idiots.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, all the people trained to hate the supreme sacred congregation of the holy office and their historical activities :
decimation: which is kinda happening to the us on a slow scale
mircea_popescu: decimation since carter at least. yes. and there's no way out of this.
decimation: as Mr. Yarvin (and many others) have pointed out, the bottom line is that the us as a going concern (then entire economy) is a money losing proposition
mircea_popescu: and even then, it's hit-and-miss
mircea_popescu: perhaps not understanding that "give me free money" only works for that kid, with the truck.
undata: the company collapsed a month or two later
decimation: like, why not re-engineer a product from scratch when we could buy it off the shelf, because we have slaves working for us and we don't need to show positive cash flow!
decimation: undata: from the outside, I've see the 'startup' debt-funding culture creates all sorts of weird behaviors
mircea_popescu: the day will come when being white will actually be exactly what the white supremacists feed themselves out of fearing : a handicap.
undata: the US "tech economy" is filled with rabbits who think the food and water just fills itself.
mircea_popescu: neither russians nor chinese are all that ethnically blind.
decimation: heh china is happy to buy the paper actually
mircea_popescu: just wait the scaroma victim out.
mircea_popescu: it's like nobody bothers to wish ill on the cancer patient. that's why russia and china are not even remotely interested in a large scale war.
decimation: a very small part of the us population has any idea what it really means to economically run a business (turn a profit), and that part isn't in power
mircea_popescu: there's nothing more corrosive to a state, and a society, and ultimately a culture, than fake money. it's the curse of fucking doom, you don't even need enemies if you got that.
mircea_popescu: because people do this, there's idiots whose careers are entirelyt constructed out of "advising start-ups", like undata is keenly aware.
mircea_popescu: the sheer amount of plain idiocy being imported into the software of the world by this avenue far exceeds all the idiocy that could ever be imported into openssh or the kernel.
mircea_popescu: add to that all the idiots living off "free money" that was GIVEN tro them, while selling themselves on and trying to sell everyone else on how they're "making a positive impact"
mircea_popescu: linux is a nice comfortable chair. after red hat is done sitting in it, it will perhaps be still usable. maybe. like the woman that delivered a baby hippo will still make a good wife.
mircea_popescu: like the stuff discussed above re usg agency redhat, fuycking up linux. EXACTLY the stiuation of the giant ruining a chair.
decimation: In my opinion, usg's crimes are not 'active' in the sense that they scheme with redhat for evil - usg's crime is that if failed to use the resources and human talent at its disposal to advance the art of computing at all
mircea_popescu: that's the small part. the big part is the disruption it has already caused, and it continues to cause each passing day.
mircea_popescu: "If the Treasury were forced to convert the $1.4 trillion in short-term bills (on which it now pays an average interest rate of 0.056 percent) into 30-year bonds at the average rate it is now paying on such bonds (4.919 percent) the interest on that $1.4 trillion in debt would increase 88-fold." <<< this is wreaking untold havoc on the entire known world, incidentally .it's not just the disruption it WILL cause as it u
gribble: asciilifeform was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 7 hours, 55 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i never understood the 'happy hacking keyboard' and imitators. being as i live and die by function keys, the more the merrier. why voluntarily have fewer?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: yes because even more pretending will save the world << my fucking thoughts exactly.
undata: mircea_popescu: damn, you're right. priced myself way below the life-coach/motivational market
mircea_popescu: undata: please take my course on the above for only 10 BTC << too cheap to work.
mircea_popescu: because yes, there fucking IS more to it than just the politicals of uncle sam going "o hai linux guise, you has some cattle of mine, taking them back kthxbye"
mircea_popescu: jurov: this is the undoing of C.. due to its memory unsafety they must decide to either bloat the kernel or suffer the overhead <<< out of the 10`000 billion lines of commentary written on the "usg is making up money and giving it to redhat to implement its policies ; whereby control economy is now called "do-ocracy" topic the past year or so, yours is the first one to actually be fucking sensible.
mircea_popescu: should make for pretty decent shows for like, corporate parties and expensive weddings and whatnot. And now, Billy Bob, the Ice Mage!
mircea_popescu: in any case... the high fantasy power of the ice / frost mage, at your fingertips. all you need is a compressor.
mircea_popescu: perhaps works even better at the bottom of a shallow lake. "self-reorganising lake".
mircea_popescu: as the gas expanding sucks heat out of the canister, ice forms, which insulates, so eventually the gas coming out the outlet is itself supercooled, sucking the heat out of the atmosphere and making ice in random patterns. baiscally, "self-building ice tree"
mircea_popescu: then open up an outlet in a convenient atmosphere, such as where a mist machine is working, or maybe just very humid tropical climate,
PinkPosixPXE: hey thestringpuller, yea, have had a bussy holiday season
decimation: who knows how long it can last, but the above debt issue isn't exactly a healthy sign
thestringpuller: decimation: I wonder how long they can keep it up.
PinkPosixPXE: ben_vulpes: or mod6 you around, doing some adjustments on my script, and had a few questions about the modifications requested, quick questions.
decimation: http://oldurbanist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/11/ever-since-euclid.html << " But their view seems to be that so long as the owner remains clothed with the legal title thereto and is not ousted from the physical possession thereof, his property is not taken, no matter to what extent his right to use it is invaded or destroyed or its present or prospective value is depreciated." << progressives have been grinding down the US for a long time
decimation: the Day of Days comes closer...
decimation: "If the Treasury were forced to convert the $1.4 trillion in short-term bills (on which it now pays an average interest rate of 0.056 percent) into 30-year bonds at the average rate it is now paying on such bonds (4.919 percent) the interest on that $1.4 trillion in debt would increase 88-fold."
mats_cd03: i should probably save these for when asciilifeform is around
kakobrekla: yes because even more pretending will save the world
kakobrekla: >The truly great startup founders have to be nice on the outside but when push comes to shove, complete assholes on the inside.
undata: please take my course on the above for only 10 BTC
mats_cd03: "Startups don't win by attacking. They win by transcending."
thestringpuller: "In 2011, a survey done showed that approximately 60% of Jamaicans would push to once again become a British territory; citing years of social and fiscal mismanagement in the country."
ben_vulpes: perhaps the c pyramid will collapse under its own weight
jurov: this is the undoing of C.. due to its memory unsafety they must decide to either bloat the kernel or suffer the overhead
jurov: I don't see how shoving the entire protocol in the kernel makes sense << they don't want unnecessary context switches
decimation: it's interesting to look through the linux mailing list thread to gauge various reactions: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/10/29/854
mircea_popescu: in spite of having had some good points, mounted on the chick's chest.
mircea_popescu: it's sort of like the beta dork showing up with his hot sister at the exclusive bar.
mircea_popescu: of course they have some legitimate points.
decimation: I think the might have some legitimate points about shortcomings in existing IPC mechanisms, but I don't see how shoving the entire protocol in the kernel makes sense
mircea_popescu: decimation the usg bois are getting butchered.
decimation: Alan Cox: http://lwn.net/Articles/619142/ "No - these are reasons to have *something* in the kernel. I think it would be far more constructive to treat the current kdbus as a proof of
decimation: so now they are going to try to integrate it as a character device
decimation: now Greg KH, Kay Sievers and Lennart want to integrate DBUS into the kernel (DBUS)
decimation: speaking of which there's some amusement re: systemd and surrounds: http://lwn.net/Articles/619068/
kakobrekla: but i guess everything goes faster on the second try
decimation: kakobrekla: what about 'censoring' links from those who aren't in the wot?
kuzetsa: (I don't care enough to discuss the proxy thing ... people just keep re-bringing it up and highlighting me in the process)
kuzetsa: sure there is
mircea_popescu: there's kinda no way out of the "i don't want to pay attention, why don't i understand anything" trap.
kuzetsa: I've only privmsg'd assbot with the !up thinger less than 10 times
kuzetsa: that seems to defeat the purpose of having +m
kuzetsa: do they?
kakobrekla: strangers get voiced all the time?
kuzetsa: I didn't think anyone in this channel could post unless they were at least known in the -otc WoT
kakobrekla: at least that was the original idea.
kuzetsa: so I couldn't see the youtube video
kuzetsa: hidemyass wasn't on the whitelist
assbot: Logged on 29-11-2014 08:56:36; kuzetsa: I was mostly annoyed because hidemyass.com has some suspicious scripting and a helluvalotta sponsored advertizing, and pingbacks and cookie leakage to facebook and other social networking sites which I couldn't be arsed to audit
kakobrekla: http://l.b-a.link/?date=29-11-2014#938113 < do you find any of these better: https://hide.me/en/proxy http://proxy.org http://www.vpnbook.com/webproxy
cazalla: nintendo are releasing eon tickets across australia on monday, i get to line up at the shopping centre with 10 year olds and other dorks just so i can get the ticket to go to the island in game and catch a specific pokemon
kuzetsa: I was mostly annoyed because hidemyass.com has some suspicious scripting and a helluvalotta sponsored advertizing, and pingbacks and cookie leakage to facebook and other social networking sites which I couldn't be arsed to audit
kuzetsa: I was totally awake for the past 5 hours, just not looking at IRC
kuzetsa: and that's only because I enabled the nick highlight feature on my IRC client
kuzetsa: [23:00:00] <+mircea_popescu> <kuzetsa> assbot: you're a bad idea << if you'd have read the logs you'd know there was some derp in chan earlier dropping links to leech ips to ddos people. << mmm, yeah. I barely even notice if someone directly mentions my own nick.
nubbins`: i would rather it didn't get dark until 5:30pm
mats_cd03: all the more reason to accumulate fuel for takeoff
decimation: mats_cd03: unfortunately it seems like the 'secret police' is often trotted as a solution to many of usg's problems
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i guess so yeah
decimation: "there is much ruin in a nation"
dub: a world where are americans are shooting each other is a safer world
mats_cd03: and i don't get the impression they'd be down with it. american military doctrine encourages autonomy at the company level in a lot of ways
decimation: I think there was a discussion about this awhile ago. I think that if it came to this (orders to fire on the population somewhere) it would probably tear the military apart, or at least damage the chain of command
decimation: mats_cd03: I know a few folks who believe that the regular army would generally have no problem with firing on americans if ordered to do so
nubbins`: given the choice between grabbing a looter and grabbing a new flatscreen...
nubbins`: when else would ya get the opportunity, i guess
mats_cd03: funny enough, some guardsmen participated in the looting
nubbins`: when else would ya get the opportunity, i guess
mats_cd03: kinda controversial, as the regular army is prohibited from combat operations on american soil afaik (posse comitatus)
thestringpuller: I'm starting to miss the cold. The weather here is whacky. Went from freezing to spring weather in the same week last week.
nubbins`: then it's 22 after
thestringpuller: how is it 1:21 there?
thestringpuller: yea sim city + no work until the 8th = no sleep schedule
thestringpuller: mirc but then again, they never wanted to make a good game ; they just wanted to make a game everyone plays << except that was never the original plan until activision took over
mircea_popescu: but then again, they never wanted to make a good game ; they just wanted to make a game everyone plays, and pays .
mats_cd03: that too, but the game had such an enormous player base that if the pvp was any good it could be as huge as dota, et al are rite now
cazalla: not really, the game became more of a social network with socialist participation award type shit
mats_cd03: minor balance changes fucked everything up, from skill changes, equipment, racials, ... part of the reason why wow pvp never really caught on as an 'esport' imo
cazalla: wow pvp is the biggest zzz
mircea_popescu: who the fuck wants "new code" anyway.
mircea_popescu: decimation> it's 'dead' in the sense that there's apparently no serious alternative to redhat-salaried developers who 'maintain' the core of userspace <<< history is the alternative.
mircea_popescu: i suppose the only point being proven is that insecure idiots, low on skills and very high on politicizing are never going to go away.
mircea_popescu: and hidemyass is probably the most used web based proxy
mircea_popescu: <kuzetsa> assbot: you're a bad idea << if you'd have read the logs you'd know there was some derp in chan earlier dropping links to leech ips to ddos people.
decimation: For the pankakkes of the world: I'm not trying to say that the existing init system is awesome, I'm sure that if one were to turn over that rock one would find a mass of ugly critters
ben_vulpes: and openbsd i further suppose because an actual human runs it.
ben_vulpes: to the bsds, i suppose