asciilifeform: the allocations thing
asciilifeform can speak only for self, but on various occasions risked piggy bank to try an' convert from serf to d00d who '100% worx from cause', but on each occasion lost shirt. maybe other l1 folx will have better fortune, and sit on mt olympus with mircea_popescu , i dun presently expect to
mircea_popescu: the above "question of valuation" as well as the "it'd better make sense" readily translate into "give me resistive loss formula".
mircea_popescu: in short : the current system of allocating labour is offensively stupid ; and the rudiments of what we have here promise to work. but so far... spreading dun work!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform falls sick, and he suddenly has 95 surgeons at his bedstand, because well known and respected and so on. meanwhile young'un dies somewhere i nsilence. asciilifeform could have readily dispensed with the spurious 95th surgeon, kept 94. but... power laws right, and http://trilema.com/2013/stage-n-bitcoin-exists/#selection-101.196-101.253
mircea_popescu: consider this taken to extremes : suppose the lordship's a few hundred, ie the most it can ever possibly take, and each are castles with hundreds of knights within and so on.
mircea_popescu: this is nice and dandy -- until someone actually needs some work of their own.
mircea_popescu: it is certainly a good thing emperor of china is not gifting taiwans right now. but the matter remains -- the reward for good work is generally more work in the same vein.
mircea_popescu: taiwan will have to have a governor, and i will do what ? name the most capable ? the most bored ? suppose we do the medieval thing and separate the work from the benefice. then who gets the latter ? and so on.
asciilifeform: the 1 occasion where related, is coupla instances in yrs past when asciilifeform's 'from cause' worx ground to a halt on acct of having to earn bread in saeculum, then asciilifeform rolls eyes at folx who 'motherfucker, where is the promised X/Y/Z'
asciilifeform: ( and it dun keep us from making mutually happy trades on other occasions )
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the decision'd better make sense, which is to say, meaningful rather than arbitrary.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is ~exactly~ what i'm leveraging : ALL abstractions are "closed-source" by their very nature -- witness how cats don't read them. then let's use this natural barrier to select the future lordship.
asciilifeform: sorta why odin put him upon the green earth
mircea_popescu: given a set of ("the place formerly known as sudan", "a monopoly on aviation", "the empire state building") and ("has written proper sgml", "heroically reversed bolix stack","found way to write without getting out of bed"), which is the correct matching ?
asciilifeform: i.e. just about all of the problems of 'closed' world , were re-created on substrate of 'open', without anyone so much as deliberately trying
a111: Logged on 2018-04-06 21:12 asciilifeform: a 500k-loc ( ignoring even for a moment the far greater heft of 'modern' wonders ) c/cpp proggy is, for all intents and purposes, closed-source, even if every line is published, because it is quite impossible for anyone -- even author -- to get a proper grip on its behaviour space
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1 of my nitpicks with the 'open/closed wars' people is the annoying fact of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-06#1793733
mircea_popescu: the only remaining open problem is, of course, valuation.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo there's little sadder in creation than overstretched underachievers, "oh, i got perfect sat scores" "why ?"
mircea_popescu: so to sum all this up : naggum is right in that what he does can't be free. naggum is wrong in that the tangible expression of abstracts could have value (what next, doctor supports self by selling ultrasound drawings ?!) ; and moreover closed code in the copyright/microsoft sense makes the slaves&harem&wot world impossible.
asciilifeform: ( and will add, it is ordinarily trivial to distinguish folx who theorem 'from causes' from the ones who 'for purposes' i.e. 'maybe someone throws penny into hat' )
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ie, i would propose as a foundational myth, "avik killed naggum". there's something here. << And he did it for (((packing))) Peanuts!
mircea_popescu: doctor goes "well... i guess i could sleep... but i dun feel like it... or i could farm... meh farming... let's see if there's something interesting to do".
mircea_popescu: because that's not a state of mind conducive to doctoring in the first place.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but the timing's wrong. without ~need~.
mircea_popescu: the thinking by which you hope to pay the bills, that's how you get C and mass marketed "films".
mircea_popescu: it's a case of wheel powering engine again. all abstract work is a surplus phenomena because the surprlus predates the work. not because "we're poor, but we hope to pay the bills by thinking".
asciilifeform: well yes, anyffing published without expectation of moolah, is 'surplus phenomena', whether theorem or proggy or symphony etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and sometimes, the salvation of slaves comes from reading trilema instead of sleep and so on.
mircea_popescu: and so here's how feudalism becomes inescapable : man will have to get sudan or w/e land (plus the attached bipedal or multipedal livestock) in exchange for having written republican smgl or w/e.
asciilifeform: sometimes abstract work is done by kamikazes who do it from principle, at the expense of sleep and walks in park, the way asciilifeform bakes e.g. ffa. but in general yes , it simply dun happen because nobody pays.
mircea_popescu: this dun fucking work in practice, for the reasons obvious from the proper formulation.
mircea_popescu: note how the "solution" idiots came up with (and failed to verbalize) was exactly "consultancy", ie, "we'll live off the value of the particularizing tail of our generalizing workl"
mircea_popescu: copyright is a deeply dysfunctional, dumb and braindamaged attempt to "open" the crown allocation process.
mircea_popescu: to bring this full circle : the perceived difference between particularizing (doctor) and generalizing (computer scientist) abstract work is entirely hallucinated. the ~only~ way to correctly pay for abstract work is as allocations from crown.
mircea_popescu: which is why hospitals don't let you choose the shaman.
mircea_popescu: the domain specialist is uniquely unqualified and deeply unable to hire computer expert.
mircea_popescu: the problem doesn't need to be stated in terms of "oil, gas" bla bla, "let's imagine adults still exist somewhere". this dork works for a packaging manufacturer, but the problem's evident from the "small business owner" - "web expert" interactions, well documented online.
asciilifeform: ~the~ foundational q, imho, of software having a non-zimbabweistic future -- is whether avik can be prevented from killing naggum.
mircea_popescu: ie, i would propose as a foundational myth, "avik killed naggum". there's something here.
asciilifeform: then saw the very tools of his trade vanishing, as the commercial lisp people slowly starved cuz idjits went 'let's hire 9000 java monkeys, freeeee tooling'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform our friend avik does the same, believe it or not.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, what we're building will collapse. and i can prove it, too -- very much goedelian crunch.
asciilifeform: let's recall the hole that naggum sat in. d00d tried to make living by actually solving tricky problems for folx willing to pay ( oil, gas, jurisprudential db people, etc ) . found that it became harder and eventually impossible on acct of various factors, incl. the lemonization of the market by shitgnomes, asinine eurotaxation regimes, etc
mircea_popescu: but the web (metaphorically, the spider web of existence) has to be and remain traversable from the outside.
mircea_popescu: now, none of this is an argument for ~all code forever open~. there's no all comers here, and indeed the overwhelm factor is a problem.
mircea_popescu: and all my reservations re naggum, historically, came from this elinson flavour i here and there detected.
mircea_popescu: (by which i mean, specifically "i know i'm a hack, and i know i have a finite time until they figure it out, so the more i make while saying the least -- the better")
asciilifeform: the gnu folx 'destroyed' plenty, by sheer volume of noise swamping signal.
mircea_popescu: leaving aside my observation of anyone else's experience -- the "here's mp-wp codebase" has not appreciably destroyed something as far as i can tell.
mircea_popescu: probably. still -- notice how ~easy~ it is for us to discard pointless items, howsoever "friendly" they might be.
mircea_popescu: something like that utterly can't stand UNLESS "the logs are right there, what've you been doing".
mircea_popescu: but open code is rather the direct underpinning of items like http://trilema.com/2016/i-am-firmly-against-universal-franchise/
mircea_popescu: so in short -- naggum's dilemma must be resolved ~without~ closing the code.
asciilifeform: in practice the friction of 'closed' is finite. bolix is as closed as it gets and i'ma still rape it.
mircea_popescu: passive, yes, but everyone who is here is here ~because they read code~, not because they didn't.
mircea_popescu: if, in point of fact, code is kept under wraps, you are, in point of fact, forcing the world into a "things lay where they fell" scheme, and slavery becomes untenable (and deeply something i can't support).
asciilifeform: somehow it dun bother anybody that avik's spleen cannot judge that he's a moron and walk away
mircea_popescu: and you can't say "she should read trilema and figure shit out". a slave doesn't have this, a slave will do what random moron tells them to, which i guess would be going to college or some shit.
mircea_popescu: there's a female born, somewhere in the indistinct midwest. aged 16, she correctly [yet without having read it] applies the http://trilema.com/2013/whore-strat/ "what female is supposed to be", ends up enslaved by some guy, whom we'll call avik.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-25 19:15 asciilifeform: at the risk of repeating ancient thread -- 'the best machine is no machine', it weighs nuffin, needs no maintenance. and the best proggy, is no proggy at all, if a problem can be solved without writing proggy, it ought to be. erry line of coad can be rightfully pictured as an act of intellectual littering. y'know, like throwing cig butt or bottle on the ground in the park.
mircea_popescu: suppose, as a thought experiment, we are now in charge of the world. we are to say how it is to be run.
mircea_popescu: there's a further, important element that he neglects. specifically -- consider slavery.
mircea_popescu: which is his mistake, he thinks "code has value" is approachable in the terms of "fish has value". but fish has value per line, and code does NOT have value per line. in fact -- each extra pound of fish increases the value of the fish cache ; but every extra line of code DECREASES the value of the code cache.
mircea_popescu: now, conversely -- it is impossible, leaving aside how it is impracticable, to try and make software "secret". from the color of bits to what have you, the notion that you can somehow wrangle ~a concrete, objectified representation~ of the abstract in question to "carry value" is also broken.
mircea_popescu: since the doctor's entitled to some compensation to even out his opportunity cost, the dilemma naggum presents is quite soundly footed : "get sick for a while, see". and plenty of other items go just this way.
mircea_popescu: so, on one hand, he is entirely correct in saying that useful work has to be paid, and whether its abstract work or digging ditches makes no difference. there's nothing special about writing software "that millions will use" (ie, generality) -- because the writer can get sick, and the person handling sick people will HAVE TO drop what they're doing and instead look at deeply similar splotches on a screen and say ~specific~ wo
mircea_popescu: the On the Free Software movement quote. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-37.0-65.730
mircea_popescu: (dood had some bitcoin investment, and was diddling the kidnapped woman, is the idea).
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo hey, seems in the ruckus we forgot a lulzy piece : https://news.stanford.edu/2018/12/06/shoucheng-zhang-obituary/ (stanford ablates 55 yo nobel winner physicist because too chinese).
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/12/theresa-may-no-confidence-vote-coming-tonight/ << Qntra -- Theresa May No Confidence Vote Coming Tonight
mircea_popescu: i wonder how many people ignored the dumbass before she formed the notion that the problem isn't her being stupid -- but other people being old.
asciilifeform: the other detail is that -- unsurprisingly -- the item that became 'accessible' is typically closer to electro-dildo, while actual comp is less gettable than it's been since early '80s
mircea_popescu: and no, showing me the sweet leet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Camp_Lazear_Wellcome_L0000010.jpg they've built by hammering in nails with that microscope doesn't fucking impress.
mircea_popescu: the world, not as a sum, but throughout, each-individual-component-as-well-as-all-groups-of-components, is worse off for computers being more accessible thusly.
mircea_popescu: and then of course also lack the meta-cognitive capacity to realise that this is simple metonimy, the stupidphone doesn't do that just to one filed that's "too long", but to ALL FIELDS. which is how they end up with notions about "#metoo" and etcetera.
mircea_popescu: there's no fucking benefit, the world was better off when there were four computers about total and the fucktarded secretutes sucked dick in office bathrooms instead of derping about how "you don't understand computers" because their stupidphones cut off fields silently and THEY ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO REALISE this is a problem, and specifically of theirs...
mircea_popescu: motherfucker, all that builds is a large contingent of snails who think they can fly, which is PRECISELY technological debt.
mircea_popescu: "oh, the computer should make snails fly, so that it makes flight accessible to snails, so that there's more birds around which will make even more computers even better bla bla bla".
mircea_popescu: and then here we fucking are.
mircea_popescu: ple" symbol in that "more people get involved" does NOT denote ~actual~ people. it denotes the sort of people who need a computer to think for them in order to participate in intellectual affairs. ie, NON!!!!-people!
mircea_popescu: and the thing that truly gets my goat, is that all this inane "simplicity -- computers have to do the work for people" reinterpreted as "computers have to do the work to compensate for utterly destructured psychogenic noise -- and you have to write the assurance software for the software they run" was only pushed in the first place so "accessible" because then "more people get involved". forgetting all the while that the "peo
mircea_popescu: sounds like one of the fet tards.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if had browser that eats sane sexpr instead of the customary shitsoup, good % of what folx want in 'processor' falls away
mircea_popescu: i utterly don't need a scriptable wrapper to do string manipulation, what the holy shit is this, onyl someone who grew up on c strings can imagine such nonsense.
asciilifeform: so happens that already wrangled the heaviest piece into shape
mircea_popescu: so do the sane thing, make bitmap with latex tag, and be done with it.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 23:38 asciilifeform: in older lulz, 1d 18h left on the https://www.ebay.com/itm/Symbolics-MacIvory-model-3-8-MW-in-an-Apple-Quadra-650-80-MB-9-GB-Genera-8-3/113428507092 auction; i'ma bid, and if can get for under 5 , will have the thing xray tomographied ( sadly i have a quite finite budget presently for the proj )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other tardations, re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879893 >> the radiographers all seem to want 2-3k. which is lulzy, cuz for half of that one can simply buy the machine..
asciilifeform: i care strictly when stuck cleaning up the splatter with own hand.
mircea_popescu: nevermind that. really nobody cares what the empire does.
asciilifeform: if html centralcommittee had been slightly less retarded, we could've had bitmaps with searchable backing text; or font-height attribute; or any number of 1 thing that'd cure the retardation. but so happens that they were dropped as children, and so we have this.
mircea_popescu: don't try to fix people's terminals from across the cable.
mircea_popescu: and there only.
mircea_popescu: and the way this wound will heal is exactly thus : properly adnotated math that then is properly rendered WHERE TERMINALS WORK
mircea_popescu: there's no way out of this, alf : inasmuch as "math" is not fully alphabetic (as it isn't, because it includes procedural items as well as characters) you WILL HAVE TO add some notation to your "text".
mircea_popescu: but you ~could~ add the actual latex source as an alt tag on the image, resulting in... searchable, and viewable in [correctly working] lynx.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i saw the plugin thing earlier. it has exactly same problem as latex-by-hand -- bitmapism, resulting in nonsearchable and nonseeable-in-lynx etc text
mircea_popescu: i wake up, with a bladder fulla pee and a bladder fulla words. and more than half the time it's the 2nd that actually makes snoozing impossible.
mircea_popescu: pick one article from there (preferably -- something interesting!), and make a post of it. transcribe it correctly, include all images (cleanned up if they need it ; or restated as http://trilema.com/2018/how-to-html-math/ if practicable) and there you go.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-04 00:58 asciilifeform: i dun expect these will ever be OCR'd, hand-typesetted-cum-diagrams newtonola is possibly a bridge too far for ocr.
mircea_popescu: nicoleci it occurs to me summarizing may be not the best use of your time. how about you switch to some http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-04#1878206 instead ?
mircea_popescu: and yes, the distinction is very specifically driven by the "marriage patterns", ie, western franks allowing women much more choice in mating (resulting predictably in a large contingent of unmated females, a larger still contingent of mated-once, and a much later first mating overal). all this produces a lot of idle time to waste wringing wrists.
mircea_popescu: west of the hajnal line, however, "fair" is exclusively found in "it's not fair that old man's daugther do all the work while old woman's daugthers get all the praise"
mircea_popescu: east of the hajnal line, "fair" means "it's true i'm a poor peasant who needs this chunk of bread, yet the devil saw it first and well... fair is fair"
mircea_popescu: phf the folk fairness you think of is purely eastern. western fairness was always female-driven, and socialistically flavoured.
mircea_popescu: hey Mocky_ how's the hunt going ?
phf: i was confused by the correctness/fairness thread, until i realized that the use of the word "fair" has changed to its complete opposite from the traditional western use. in folklore fair is a sometimes begrudging recognition and internal compromise of correctness: something is not to your liking, but it's fair, i.e. correct
mircea_popescu: let me guess, "#metoo, the social narrative ANYONE* can contribute to..."
mircea_popescu: which, if anyone should be equal to the task of explaining for my benefit...
mircea_popescu: otherwise, speaking of summaries and so on : anyone familiar with "the gentleman's magazine" ?
asciilifeform: the perfectjob
a111: Logged on 2018-03-14 04:52 ben_vulpes: they've always been my "wrong tool for every job"; i'd rather have a set of deep sockets in pretty much every situation.
asciilifeform: trinque: i was never able to build it under orginary glibc either.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, in the new trilema header photo, is that geiger counter in left hand ?
mircea_popescu: honestly, the engine needs a rewrite anyway. and the rewrite needs our svg/html spec. and so following.
asciilifeform: if there were a pair of free hands -- would be great proj, remove gtkism from ye olde ff
asciilifeform: it dun make even the most elementary cut.
mircea_popescu: eh, certainly google's thing isn't on the list.
asciilifeform: prolly will end up the de-facto graphic browser
asciilifeform: i would say 'let's' but not equipped to say what was 'last good sores', near as i can tell the thing has sucked for as long as existed
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just making a copy of their historical offerings.
mircea_popescu: https://download-installer.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/59.0b9/linux-x86_64/en-US/firefox-59.0b9.tar.bz2.asc << in other lulz, they even have sigs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly the proggy ~itself~ is likethat nao. 'special ed'. nfi why you'd want recent ver.
asciilifeform: aah y'mean the 'we know your os, and of course it's winblowz, here have a .exe' thing ?
mircea_popescu: there's this pantsuit trend of making websites from playdo. 0 levers, 0 anything, thick bright colors.
mircea_popescu: btw, in case anyone's pissed off at mozilla "download firefox" inanity, the list is here : https://download-installer.cdn.mozilla.net/pub/firefox/releases/
asciilifeform: in older lulz, 1d 18h left on the https://www.ebay.com/itm/Symbolics-MacIvory-model-3-8-MW-in-an-Apple-Quadra-650-80-MB-9-GB-Genera-8-3/113428507092 auction; i'ma bid, and if can get for under 5 , will have the thing xray tomographied ( sadly i have a quite finite budget presently for the proj )
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/UopiX >> 'GNU inetutils <= 1.9.4 telnet.c multiple overflows'
asciilifeform was obsessed with the item as a boy, and went and... built. but unsurprisingly was unable to come up with the kilowatt spark gap horror that'd actually make circuit close even 1ce
asciilifeform: ( semiconducts and then shorts and welds solid at the juncture! hence the early radiotelegraph's little hammer that whacked the tube each time it went conductive )
asciilifeform: consider early age of radio, with 'coherer' -- tube of iron filings , nobody had any idea how worked until 1980s (!) when somebody bothered to look and found that yes feo2 semiconducts
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879874 << multers no , rectifiers -- yes ( diode was ~the~ mega-discovery, rather than transistor as commonly thought -- the latter is small variation on the former )
a111: Logged on 2014-11-24 22:59 asciilifeform: without sovereignty, 'your' tractor - isn't yours. it belongs (along with your starfish) to the big boys.
a111: Logged on 2014-11-24 22:58 asciilifeform: jurov: tank is a particular type of tractor, let's say. it cultivates sovereignty (or did, in the age of the tank, but why nitpick) rather than edibles.
asciilifeform: ( which is why icbm complex is just as essential 'petro tech' as the drill ! )
asciilifeform: re: petrowank : asciilifeform also not expert, but last i recall arabs were 'peaked' while ru ramping for 50+y and onwards; hence the pantsuit's perennial interest in picking up last reich's torch and 'spreading demoocracy' there
mircea_popescu: speaking of "when world ended", this 2014-2015 winter might actually be the best not-after-this date
mircea_popescu: "These factors together worked to bring the actual NATO oil need under its allocation for the first time in the forty years since that allocation exists, and otherwise for the first time since the Industrial Revolution some centuries ago. It's really an incredible, history bending first, this" << http://trilema.com/2015/oil-theory/#selection-61.102-61.394
a111: Logged on 2017-12-28 14:27 mircea_popescu: there is no, strictly speaking, reason that iron MUST be provided on the surface of a planet just like the earth. it ~could~, very well, have simply gone through a place poor in planetoids and ended up entirely iron free on the surface. but it did not.
asciilifeform: i bet it's same sound as the particulate from the omnipresent powdered car windshields over here lol
mircea_popescu: what the fuck beach, arenal is a volcano.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: orig thread was re beach sand, nitpick strictly there
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 21:44 mircea_popescu: not afaik. tho honestly the idiocy of "equity" as practiced in common law / intuited by the runts in every litter + their enablers is such monumental nonsense as i don't expect can be readily unpacked.
asciilifeform: pretty hard to get a good cutting edge from plain sio2 ( try it some time ). with glass ( i.e. with na as well as si & o ) you get the requisite shear. so cuts.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: gotta nitpick : quartz ( plain old sio2 ) != obsidian. in the latter, the volcanic ash dun simply colour it black, but gives crystal lattice a shear plane ( so you get that delish cutting edge the stone age folx like )
mircea_popescu: anyway, works ad interim as a fine heuristic. whosoever is preoccupied with fairness can be readily discarded as intellectually useless. it's either fairness or correctness, and all the rest of http://trilema.com/2014/the-definitive-tract-on-sociopathy/ flows necessarily.
diana_coman: it always sounded rather...menacingly/cold to me, lol; ash != sand I'd say
BingoBoingo: <diana_coman> do they also use "cuesta mucho" for "it's not fair"? it'd be quite on point at least from what I can tell << Around here they usually bitch about their derechos
mircea_popescu: not afaik. tho honestly the idiocy of "equity" as practiced in common law / intuited by the runts in every litter + their enablers is such monumental nonsense as i don't expect can be readily unpacked.
diana_coman: since asciilifeform was asking re what does "it's not fair" mean - from what I can tell, precisely that: if one finds it hard, then it's not fair
diana_coman: do they also use "cuesta mucho" for "it's not fair"? it'd be quite on point at least from what I can tell
mircea_popescu: but back to the point : the only sort whom "los cuesta" to be thinking is the sort that really has no business here.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, spanish (which is terrible re cognates btw, it fails to distinguish between expecting [esperar] and hoping [esperancia] and so on) uses the same word for both "it's expensive" (cuesta mucho) and "i find it difficult" ("me cuesta").
mircea_popescu: these also not sifferent.
mircea_popescu: nor what other incentive is there, for either, besides the "moron still wants to live and spawn".
mircea_popescu: diana_coman on meditation, the innovation/subversion distinction is quite well founded.
phf: oh, i don't know what you guys achieved in html mode, because i'm looking at the result in lynx
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so let's smg another month an' see how cuntoo goes.
mircea_popescu: i think it prolly makes it more readable, and also has the merit of making the ad-hockery less ad-hockish/more rulebased.
asciilifeform: unless 1 of the experts chimes in today with unexpected pill.
asciilifeform: that's what it'll be then.
asciilifeform: ( still sad parens, but imho less outlandishly eye-bleeding than the mega-font variant ; lynx-friendly 'floor' )
asciilifeform: will post for the laughter and derision of audience shortly
asciilifeform: there's various ways, of varying degree of ugly, currently shitting out a hybrid variant
mircea_popescu: now, if you want "html maths", they're in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879782 ; if you want fixwidth terminal math, it's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879777 ; if you want "just like by hand", it'll be either latex or yeah, a photograph of your having done it by hand / a bitmap of some mechanized version thereof. dunno that there's a way out of this.
mircea_popescu: though in fairness, while the thickness displayed is exaggerated, what you do by hand is not SIMPLY shear it. you also thicken it some.
mircea_popescu: yeah, well, i don't think they implemented arbitrary shearing of fonts.
asciilifeform: the parens, floor, should simply be ~tall~.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "not turned up" lol. it's in the article i just linked you.
asciilifeform: ( if there existed a 'height' attribute for font, it would entirely solve. but i have not turned up any such thing existing. )
mircea_popescu: where, specifically ? http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2238#selection-997.5-1009.4 ? the sup/sub only work if you have simple exponents.
asciilifeform: the annoying bit is that in e.g. http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2238 i was able to make html do a very close approx to the customary formatting.
mircea_popescu: well, one or the other. there's no way to magic away the difference between gfx browser and fixwidth term.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the speciffic items discussed are not possible to render alphabetically, and for the reasons stated : fraction lines are not a character etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there was a 'mathsml' thing, but seems to require js, browsers briefly had and then dropped support
mircea_popescu: im not aware there's a way to make terminal-html-math. not even tex does that.
asciilifeform: i was going for 'keeps being readable in lynx like the prev chapters'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879722 variant actually displays in terminal ( sans the 'floor' ), try it
asciilifeform: as for the parens, floor, etc, ugh, i dun want'em wide, i want'em ~tall~
BingoBoingo: Also there's the S.MG testing server currently billed monthly, how long term are you thinking with http://trilema.com/2018/minigame-smg-november-2018-statement/#footnote_0_81604
mircea_popescu: get the bimbo anotehr year plox. i dun recall what the deal was with mocky right off, ima have to dig it up
asciilifeform: came up entirely empty when looked for how to make the parens appropriate height tho.
asciilifeform: i considered to use ansi drawing chars for the floor, that'd prolly do it
mircea_popescu: ima fix it for you, but it will take longert than a moment because ima take the opportunity to write trilema article explain how to use html for maffs.
asciilifeform: or, hrm, still loses the floor()
asciilifeform: ( before suggest 'mathml' -- asciilifeform dun have a browser which displays it, and suspects that nobody here does either )
asciilifeform: if anybody knows how to make these prettier without resorting to bitmapisms or javascript, or ~anything~ platformistic, plox to write in
asciilifeform: i refuse to use bitmaps for the matholade in ffa, cuz retarded ( not searchable + looks like shit on 3 out of 4 people's displays no matter what you do )
asciilifeform currently in a bout of rage re the retardation of html, where formatting a kindergarten-level equation takes hrs and still dun satisfy
trinque: I'll admit it was a knee-jerk reaction to the zombie bioreactor. Possibly there are much better ways to shut it down.
mircea_popescu: never did, no. tho during wartime romania it was THE luxury.
asciilifeform: ( likbez : man is the only known reservoir. and spread in shit. prior to mid 20th c, vanishingly rare, cuz damn near errybody inoculated through exposure to ~some~ liquishit in water. then suddenly ~0 shit-eating, among the industrial city folx, and thing appears on epidemiological map )
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 17:06 trinque: where is the environmentalist outcry for nuking the congo, I ask.
mircea_popescu: chicks as white as the http://trilema.com/2016/tangerine/#selection-77.0-77.504 wonder.
mircea_popescu: o look, it's raining these now. check this one out : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dY5we/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: what the everloving fuck ?!
mircea_popescu: because totally, that's what i'm going to spend my resources on. passing tests the females came up with.
mircea_popescu: yeah, right, "how will females test for fitness", i gotta wear italian pagliacci pointed shoes and generally http://trilema.com/2016/the-%D0%BA%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%81-bdsm-party/#footnote_0_68337
asciilifeform: 'how will we test for idiocy then'
asciilifeform: i've spoken with jp folk, they see the notion as roughly similar to how anglos see orlol's phonetic alphabet thing
asciilifeform: jp could cancel hieroglyphs tonight, if (dunno) emperor is put back on throne and wants to peter-the-great.
asciilifeform: so it's rather different situation than cn, which actually escaped inventing alphabet for 5000yrs
asciilifeform: for e.g. children's books, they already encode in 100% 46.
mircea_popescu: well, what are we talking about ? "that they could have" ? of fucking course could have.
asciilifeform: but for text entry they have hiragana kbd, given as 100% of lang can be coded in it, the hieroglyph desk-sized lolkeyboard of 1900s fame vanished with introduction of microcomp
asciilifeform: mcarthur tried to ban hieroglyphs, it went nowhere, sorta how peter I was able to cut the 30 redundant greek chars from ru alphabet, but still left 6 or so turds
mircea_popescu: i dunno, afaik it's how they write particles and things, but as an aid to the idiotic uselesness of "proper" writing, not by itself.
asciilifeform: freestanding. one can write the whole lang in it.
asciilifeform: they 'fixed' in the 9th century . problem as usual is the entrenched mass of 'i had to hieroglyph, so let the son also'
asciilifeform has the kbd even.
mircea_popescu: they ~deserved~ the wiping out by confederacy of proper alphabet dunces. to make the point forever fucking plain -- IF YOU UNICODE, you will die for it.
mircea_popescu: they shoulda had ascii, ended up with unicode
asciilifeform: but so far only managed to cut down the stroke #
asciilifeform: they have not 1 but ~2~ working alphabets. and repeatedly tried to phase out hieros, most recently under mcarthur
mircea_popescu: imagine if they didn't end up with broken alphabet, like morons.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough though, to the same sort of casual examination that passes semites (eg, jews) for "white", japanese also pass.
mircea_popescu: japan is certainly reserved case of non-white white men. toyota 1970s takeover of auto industry imo even better example than their (certainly present, and certainly respectable 1880-1920 marine innovations)
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 00:38 asciilifeform: jp was a hair's width away from picking up the torch that anglotardistan dropped, and anglos knew this, and so in late '80s they engineered an economic implosion for'em
asciilifeform: jp (1890-1945) was arguably better example. went from 'wooden civ' to, e.g., world's biggest+fastest battleship, h2o2-powered submarine, all sortsa goodies that quite solidly demonstrated 'yes first copied, then grasped, white man's tech' , until nailed by confederacy of anglodunces
mircea_popescu: and more generally, this "if birds were clouds, there'd be winds of shit" type of argument in insescapable.
asciilifeform: i'm unequipped to say whether cn 'understood nuke', but the apparent total absence of indigenous cpu arch does tell tales
asciilifeform: btw funnily enuff , the 'germans who sailed' ended up having to copy the (droppable) fusion n00k, rather than vice versa.
mircea_popescu: russkis understood what it is they;'re copying and why. chinese -- neve rdid. in this sense, chinese copied nuke like russians copied ics.
mircea_popescu: then ~lone man~ of wanna-be rus' yellow man copied item.