asciilifeform: what happens is that nothing behind the 22 rsa items is eaten until they are. as one'd expect from an ordinary fifo. hence asciilifeform's nitpick.
diana_coman: my implementation is just a bounded queue fifo, 1 item at a time in /out; and yes, I looked again at Ada's standard stuff and I could use I think a bounded_synchronized_queue container but then it forces me to put/get full structure
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, the way I implemented it it's as asciilifeform says but the reason it is *this* data structure is because of intended use so linked to above
asciilifeform: can do it, but the resulting data structure called sumthingelse.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform afaik you can "get top X" rather than "get top" neh ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a 'queue' in the usual sense doesn't have a 'pick an X', it has 'pick from top'
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, that's precisely why I made it that way; I suppose it's not clear there at all but yes - because processing of rsa/s is meant to be easily and entirely separated physically, aka machines
mircea_popescu: not like the queued items are not tagged.
mircea_popescu: what's problem then ?
mircea_popescu: but re your q : these 6 workers pick rsa from queuer ; and these 3 pick serpent from queue.
mircea_popescu: this machine for serpent, this machine for rsa, is the model here.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how wouldja, e.g., 'these 6 cpus for serpent, these 3 -- for rsa' if yer packets are in 1 queue ?
mircea_popescu: hers is the right cut.\
mircea_popescu: two kilobytes are two kilobytes. the advantage of doing it the way she does it is that if you get two machines later, you can run this code unmodified. the disadvantage is absent, because two kilobytes are two kilobytes, what do yo ucare if "separate"
asciilifeform: ( i thought orig mircea_popescu spec was 'keep rsa packets in own queue, so clearly cap the resource that is spent on'em'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, counterintuitively hers is the right cut.
mircea_popescu: hm. i suppose this is okay, really. scalable enough, if eventually we decide to get a s and a r machine, they'll just have their own queues and that's it.
asciilifeform: you'd want'em in separate queues, neh? whole point of marking the packets distinguishable by size
mircea_popescu: "this is needed for the same reason as the generic at UDP lib previously - to allow one to store Serpent messages or RSA messages while maintaining them clearly differentiated" << why are you putting ducks and geese in the same line though ?
asciilifeform: ( ffa is not threaded per se, but is thread-safe, dun allocate anyffing other than on stack, i.e. can be used inside a thread safely )
asciilifeform quite fond of the ada thread model, it's prolly closest one can get to sanity on pc irons
mircea_popescu: i see. not the best use of words on my part.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta the philosophy i went with in FG -- redundancy against iron-death error oughta live upstack ( i.e. you plug in >1 ) rather than inside box
mircea_popescu: "there are not enough errors you can fix for the machinery to fix errors be worth having around".
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I don't know if/that that is indeed the only thing that can kill the socket; and testing won't quite tell me either
mircea_popescu: and this is a fundamental assumption baked into the udp spec etc.
diana_coman: right, that wasn't the proposed approach at any time
asciilifeform: if only thing that can kill the socket is killed iron, retrying it won't bring back to life will it.
mircea_popescu: no, what i'm saying is that with udp it is ~never worth "Retrying" in the tcp sense.
diana_coman: that was my original meaning but then I got the impression you said the wrapper should ignore so then...it should keep trying?
mircea_popescu: "ignore" in the sense of "keep trying"
mircea_popescu: "returns" in the sense of "return error, let machinery stop"
asciilifeform: and yes death is the correct behaviour.
asciilifeform: it's like the fg serial socket.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman if the socket is in fact closed, your program dies, there's no twowaysabout this.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: my current understanding is that the socket won't ever close, if iron is intact.
diana_coman: the sender? so it's not ignore, but "abort all"?
asciilifeform: it eats a packet and then tries to send , afaik the os will not report a eggog on send() unless there in fact are no working nics
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there ain't a 'connection' in udpology
diana_coman: but if udp lib closed the socket how would it help?
mircea_popescu: the idea is udd_ft is 99.999x% 2 and never 1.
mircea_popescu: there's two possible situations here. 1. connection has transient problems, resending would help ; 2. connection died, resending will waste more time.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: have you managed to achieve the socket-closing eggog without directly abusing the lib ? (e.g. by trying to send oversized packet, etc)
mircea_popescu: rather what ?
diana_coman: I don't know but given Close_Socket(S), ignoring seems rather ...
diana_coman: well, udp lib closes the socket in this case
mircea_popescu: if it isn't, i'd like to know about it, because i quite like the model.
asciilifeform: it's like fg, the only failure mode is magic smoke release
mircea_popescu: ie the item died ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: what sorta errors ? packet is either legit or not, neh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu phrased it correctly earlier, point is to remove from ip stack the job of queueing
diana_coman: the one thing hanging would be re errors I suppose
asciilifeform: ( rather than per-user )
mircea_popescu: weren;'t you arguing asecond ago the rescuing from nic needn't be threaded ?
asciilifeform: (i.e. added to the kicklist, which rejects packet in O(n log N) where N is number of idjits )
mircea_popescu: diana_coman so then : a) thin wrappers mosrtly to rescue the queue from ip stack into ram ; b) threaded workers later, which may include but will likely not be limited to, specialist decipherers.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can send, but then he's a spammer, not client, and gets kicked
diana_coman: what is there to stop it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im not strictly aware of this. whence the notion ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re 'synchronous', it is my understanding that client is not permitted to send a packet unless the n-1'st has been ack'd
a111: Logged on 2018-12-13 19:29 mircea_popescu: diana_coman conversely, if they're that thin why do they exist.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i have an answer re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-13#1880600 : because this way you take the queue out of the ip stack's 64kb into the 1tb of ram or w/e you use.
diana_coman: 3. I think that's to be a dynamic thing basically aka at a higher level server looks and if it needs to, it creates more workers to process those messages accumulating there
diana_coman: 1. expected bottleneck is message processing: encrypting/decrypting sounds most likely but in principle whatever further processing since not even specified yet fully! 2. the everything else is raw udp (aka udp lib) and feeding it/reading from it aka those would be sender/receivers
mircea_popescu: diana_coman to proceed logically : 1. it is factual that the expected bottleneck reasonably is de-serpenting. 2. everything-else then may safely be non-threaded. 3. do we actually want to thread the serpenting part ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes; the idea though was not to lose the packets that made it to the nic though aka because server busy sort of thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought your orig queue was specifically re clog (impedance mismatch) in the unix ip stack
diana_coman: well, except for the case where 1mn simultaneous clients I suppose but possibly that gets lost before even reaching the nic
diana_coman: well yes, as long as sender/receiver are ultra-thin aka only from/to queue to/from udp lib then no clog expected at socket
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even on hypothetical box with 9000 cpus, still no 'clogs', all you get is that the sender waits on the nic. queue cannot overflow cuz your protocol is synchronous ( server dun send anyffing to client unless asked )
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the expectation that serpenting rather than netsending will be the processing bottleneck is not unfounded, imo.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. without the variant packet widths . instantiate one with rsa-width buffer, and 1 w/ serp.width )
diana_coman: doesn't even bother to decrypt or whatnot because anyway it has no info as to keys and all that
asciilifeform: it dun make sense, in that light, 'clog' -- all that happens if waiting on nic, is that the sender thread empties its queue slower.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman does it then make sense to have a process that has a socket open and handles the serpent queue, and one proces with a different socket open handling the rsa queue (with a view that these :6666 and :6667 ports then get moved to separate machines if need be) ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: you're cpu bound ( serpent ) so you likely will never hit the bandwidth bound. so the udpgrams will go in ~realtime.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the problem's rather, two sockets will possibly clog for fever total msg/sec than one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman : you have 1 thread, that monopolizes socket, and fetches from a semaphoric queue ( diana_coman posted such a queue today ). other threads can put whatever on queue, and sender sends.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman thinking of it : the ~server~ very likely wants a lot of sockets ; strictly because talking to multiple clients at same time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose you're on a multi-core cpu, suppose the socket's not filled but the sender is.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, lol, no, the point there is the sender/receiver layer of a eulora app essentially
mircea_popescu: even go the distance of keeping a task manager to keep spawning them, and giving them sockets ?
mircea_popescu: there's two evident ways to go about this : either have these together in a single chunk that owns a socket ; or else have them independent, in which case what, they share a socket ? they each get a socket ?
mircea_popescu: so, i hear from cto the comms spec's mostly implemented. now, we're at the point where we wanna make a rsa and a serpent sender.
asciilifeform: yea subj is tapped out till i get the box in hands
mircea_popescu: me either.
mircea_popescu: yes, but n+1 step there is... "well, bolix v2020 comes with 1tb ram. which it uses."
asciilifeform: reconstructed can have whatever one likes, that aint the tricky bit.
mircea_popescu: can has 64GB ram on the cheap now. considering what period pricing was like, 2020 reconstructed bolix'd better have 1TB ram.
asciilifeform: ( i dun recall if the 'xl' actually could be fed 256MB, possibly phf knows )
asciilifeform: re bolix, iirc of the 36bit, 28 were available for addressing, so theoretically can 256MB.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-11 17:34 mircea_popescu: then ~lone man~ of wanna-be rus' yellow man copied item.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the 1st step in the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879649 line will be... "just like bolix but with 1024x the ram"
mircea_popescu: i have a lingering suspicion we'd like x86 stack a lot better if memory had stayed the size it was WHEN THE DAMNED THING WAS DESIGNED
asciilifeform: while on subj, from the extant photo i already can see that ~90% of the board surface is sram/dram, each of which respectively would fit on a '90s-era 5v 1chip
asciilifeform: ( not banking on it tho, i suspect their heads have fully tissue grafted into arse at this pt )
asciilifeform: and whoknows, perhaps the folx who attempted this in the past will finally pull their heads out of arse and come out into the light
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'physical copy' + place to put logic analyzer sausage, if not obv. earlier (the orig item is pretty cramped)
asciilifeform miser, prolly oughta have gone to dks and bought 1 of these aeons ago. hell, the comp i'm sitting on nao cost > than the thing
asciilifeform: ( the crapple box the thing sits in, incidentally, is about 100bux on the junk markets, quite handily )
asciilifeform: phf may find interesting , that this 'macivory' happens to be the one with no weitek. which normally would be a sad, but in my case is gold, from my pov the weitek is just extra crud to emulate
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-13#1880490 << you ever read http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ then ?
asciilifeform: 1st logical step , on the magic day when asciilifeform has both pcb layout and GAL contents nailed down, will prolly be to make an exact physical copy of the board.
asciilifeform: if the orig maker didn't bother to set the 'no read' bit, it'll be 9000x easier (whether so, not known yet, afaik nobody's ever fessed up to so much as trying)
asciilifeform: a coupla of them are of the kind that have flipflops ( so not susceptible to pure combinatorial brute )
asciilifeform: the 1 item of concern is heatsink on the cpu, i'ma pull cpu out prior to the magic moment
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no metal layer in between ?
asciilifeform: so it'll be a straight subtraction ( of the visible bottom tracks ) .
asciilifeform: the board has 1 component side ( and 2 track sides, 0 sandwich, 1980s recall ) , the item of interest is the track side obscured by the components ( all through-holes ) .
mircea_popescu: they measure in microsieverts (ie, grays) for some reason. but anyway, the latest ones do like 12 uSv
mircea_popescu: if you go the dentist route, make sure you check the rated power. plenty of the last gen things so low power, can't see through tin foil.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman as in "the only possible statement of mp's ultimate optimism will be centered around a refusal to believe such, for lack of any other available centers."
diana_coman: since Julian was at my talk on Monday, he now knows something about WoT :D But more to the point: he is so far the one and only Uni lecturer who wants to understand this bitcoin thing as opposed to just talk about it. So I'm quite happy he's here.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-12 16:14 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other tardations, re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-11#1879893 >> the radiographers all seem to want 2-3k. which is lulzy, cuz for half of that one can simply buy the machine..
asciilifeform: cuz 'industry' people apparently were dropped by their mothers as children, e.g. one http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1879986 , and 3 others no reply at all ( they dun like money ? )
asciilifeform: ( might have to soft-stitch the shots, dental film aint quite large enuff )
asciilifeform: ( and funnily enuff, that thing was not even the highest-priced ancient desktop comp on lulzbay -- for mysterious reasons, crapple 'lisa' sells for e.g. 70k u.s... )
asciilifeform: in other lulz, asciilifeform finally bought that bolix
diana_coman: iirc there is some synchronized queue interface and container but it seemed overkill
asciilifeform: but the 2012 rationale b00k seems to contain'em
diana_coman: asciilifeform, hm, I guess I need to search more and see exactly what it provides then
asciilifeform: ( did they end up having secondarystackism glued in, or what was it )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i could've sworn that the standard provided queues
trinque: diana_coman: wallet's a different service that connects to the other bot for IRC. I'll take a look when I get a moment. I wager the internet connection between the two went down.
diana_coman: at any rate, the whole "security testing" seems to be "check if they do x and y and z if they don't do one of them then vulnerability!!!"; no context, no interest for what the thing is or in what context it is used or what it stands for, nothing more than "did they say tovarase ceausescu x times per page?"
diana_coman: trinque, at ~11 and then later at 11:26; in between those it worked perfectly fine to rate
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'normies', to the great wrath (and eventual demise) of that empire, imitated the 'bright'
BingoBoingo: Of course there is the mid-long term hazard the kid outlives avik and evangalizes the predatory stupids down the line
BingoBoingo: The pair can take turns drugging and appropriating each other, perhaps this even occupies them enough to constrain their external actions by occupying all their time
BingoBoingo: Maybe the kid just needs a (((packing))) peanut internship with avik?
mircea_popescu: not the normies.
mircea_popescu: the brighter ones lol.
asciilifeform: eh even 15yos mocked the crapola. e.g. the Official 'Как повяжешь галстук, Береги его: Он ведь с красным знаменем. Цвета одного' turned into '...он ведь с носом пьяницы цвета одного' and even '...Есть на чем повеситься, В случае - чего'
mircea_popescu: a point not lost on the very soviet state in question.
mircea_popescu: i'm of the same mind.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform because this is the only door that ~means something~.
mircea_popescu: there's a good match between the [biology-driven] formalist approach of children, "act like adult become adult" and the purely formalist approach to the world of the superificial mental systems typical of naggum's "the meaningless lives of those who do not wish to have any meaning to their lives".
asciilifeform: fwiw i have nfi why d00d is banging on ~this~ door, there's 9000 others where could bang
mircea_popescu: the guy immortalized in 1984, "turned in uncle" etc... that's now a work of fiction. by then, had 2-3 decade history behind.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my current impression is that ( possibly unlike the 'sjw chix' ) the 'bright young' douchebags dun even bother to consider the political substance of the oddball gymnastics they participate in, but see moar as simple mechanical motion, like plowing field
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: so in the end the understanding is these bright young minds aspiring to a "computer security career" are the period politruks, looking to help construct a social narrative consensus by policing [the relevant forms of] speech ?
diana_coman: eh, he prolly found therefore a vulnerability in deedbot too!! look, he can still speak even if no voice
diana_coman: quite; tbh it merges into a sort of "code political correctness" model to me: basically the effect does not matter, but if you use the "wrong" and unapproved formulation then it's BAD; and it should be reported; and it matters!
phf: the people must know!
diana_coman: trinque, is the !!ledger cmd not working? deedbot seems to ignore it (didn't yet reply to one sent ~30 minutes ago although it replied to the !!rate meanwhile)
mircea_popescu: hey, "the message got cut off" has its effects.
mircea_popescu: (conversely : there was a slavegirl in toledo, ohio none of you lazy bums got to in time.)
mircea_popescu: i imagine pantsuit.fbi is gonna start farming these, much like pantsuit.academia is farming "scholars" and pantsuit.tech is farming blackchickscode.
BingoBoingo: Ah, like that story where the frog ate the scorpion because that's just what they do. It's their nature to eat
BingoBoingo: And in further inflating away the peso: https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/lanzan-emision-record-de-us-500-millones-en-el-mercado-de-valores-uruguayo--2018121213554
BingoBoingo: An a rare non-performance after advance deposit case made the paper https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/pagaron-150-000-por-una-fiesta-de-15-pero-el-dia-previo-no-habia-salon-ni-la-confiteria-2018121119208
BingoBoingo: And the local response to alt-Leprosy in Salto has been a dog purge https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/unos-600-perros-fueron-sacrificados-por-tener-leishmaniasis-2018121210112
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So is Canada, NZ, UK, etc. Everyone of the five eyes is a test bed for the others
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: it's a test bed for the rest of reich
asciilifeform: i'm still waiting for the next logical step of convergence to brezhnev's su, i.e. психушка instead of trial
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> world of 6yos. << On the Cardinal's lap
BingoBoingo: But Austria apparently hasn't tried anyone worth the mention until now
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> lol seekrit trials << Apparently the standard for trials in Australia is seekrit until appeal in order to "avoid biasing retrial juries"
asciilifeform: ( recall, they have 'great firewall' nao, etc )
mircea_popescu: they had a secret session of #australia and everything ? lmao.
mircea_popescu: so... "if you don't want to rue the day you were born, better make sure i'm not out looking for a job ever. i hate that shit."
Mocky: tru, but once they want you, some will allow remote. They've got to fill those recs by the end of the quarter!
asciilifeform: only problem is that they typically expect the d00d who drew on the board to later show up in their shithole 9-5
Mocky: i'm past most of my frustration with it now, noticing their weaknesses. if you can code A* on a white board in 10 minutes with no errors while talking intelligently about their beloved frameworks, then not hiring you would be a struggle
asciilifeform: Mocky: fwiw i've rarely been >6mo of battery charge away from hunger ( and on the few occasions when were, blew it on attempt at jailbreaking out ) , and at times was 6wk also.
BingoBoingo: Well, a plumb, Most of these "hosting" forums maybe see 20 posts a year from the same 4 wankers spamming in a circle
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> no, "handy" in the sense of "mp already did the work of enumerating tghe venues so i can name one that's handy on those shoulders" << Out of tophost.com, hostingdiscussion.com, topsearch.com, warriorforums, and forums.hostsearch.com, it seems only Digitalpoint might be worth a revisit
mircea_popescu: well then.
Mocky: advice wise, i'm happy to accept help. action wise, I'll take the action
mircea_popescu: Mocky you know, there's way worse fates than enslavement.
Mocky: not looking for help to solve my own problems. I'll solve and then contribute solutions to other problems
Mocky: when I look deeply enough into my pockets I see hunger about 6 weeks away, and my phone getting shut off and so I look for the closest solution at hand
mircea_popescu: no, "handy" in the sense of "mp already did the work of enumerating tghe venues so i can name one that's handy on those shoulders"
a111: Logged on 2018-04-19 01:51 mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, mod6 ben_vulpes the above q is serious, btw. have someone represent you on digitalpoint / whatever hosting forums ? or you deem it premature ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "handy" in what sense ? cuz you know from reading eg http://trilema.com/2015/okcupidcom-the-dating-site/ about ~all the others~ ?
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880271 -> I was under the impression that Mocky wasn't tied up /very happy in current place; why local /us anyway?
a111: Logged on 2018-08-28 22:27 mircea_popescu: and i do mean ~every single last one~. i talk to every single chick on fetlife, meaning EVERY SINGLE ONE. that's the job of existence. nothing else passes muster.
mircea_popescu: whereas this, like that, like all other interface-the-empire things, require the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-28#1845274 centerpiece.
mircea_popescu: i expect if attempted it'll immediately run into the same problem pizarro is encountering, whereas bois will do ANYTHING WHATSOEVER, no matter how patently stupid and laughing impending beheading in the face, just as long as it's NOT "talk to a lot of people".
asciilifeform would switch, in a heartbeat, to fulltiming at hypothetical tmsr consultancy, if it could be made to get off ground
mircea_popescu: ie, your problems, my dear farmer, come from the fact that you only try to kill cockroaches when "they get to be too many"
asciilifeform: ( and in my experience the worx that actually pay, don't 1024chicken-ize at all )
mircea_popescu: this is a facet of what i'm saying : rather than have you "look for a girlfriend as best i can when i perceive i need one", how about you have a ~girl~ look for girlfriends ALL THE TIME, and you can pick one or a few when inclined.
asciilifeform: in practice, they're scarce (esp. if impose the condition of no 'office commute' idjicies ). ~possibly~ for world-class specialists this aint so, i suppose i've never reached this level so cannot comment there
mircea_popescu: "i have an employer" is the substance of the insanity here discussed. no, you don't HAVE jack. it has.
asciilifeform: farmer can certainly walk away from his dirt, but then is naked but for shirt on his back.
mircea_popescu: (the other thing that will come to light, of course, is that 364 days of that proverbial mocky year are sheer makework, of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1880272 type ; and the various "specific problems" that "employers encounter" entirely unspecific)
mircea_popescu: there's exactly 0 reason to ever care about some dollar-holding schmuck.
mircea_popescu: your issue is you keep creating these unrequitted love relationships withj employers.
mircea_popescu: Mocky people get fired all the time, who gives a shit.
Mocky: my concern is that often it takes me a year to build an accurate enough mental model to be able to solve problem which prompted the lamp rubbing in a reasonable time
mircea_popescu: nah. you're the only one that picks those sets of tickets.
asciilifeform: ( and keeping the dev envir around, etc ) ?
mircea_popescu: now what's the problem ?
mircea_popescu: look, "short latency", what's that mean ? either it means you're cutting carrots one at a time, or else it means you don't, therefore perfectly possible to have a specialist phone robot.
asciilifeform: rather than anyffing anybody here would touch
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so then ?
mircea_popescu: programmers are whores, but usually under a roof, not on the street.
asciilifeform: but even aside from ameri-tardation, generally they also want short-latency. ( what if nobody in bourbaki picks up ? )
asciilifeform: rright, but the ameri-afflicted will balk if diff voice each time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nothing wrong with still providing the bindings. what, so hard to pick up phone ?
asciilifeform does remote, for yrs nao. but it's still packaged in the form of 'here's this 1 d00d, and we rub lamp and he grants wishes, with voice command'. nao conceivably ~someone~ ~somewhere~ aint ameri-tarded and actually packages ~work~, rather than 'we rent a d00d and command via voice' , but i haven't seen this with own eyes yet.
Mocky: in the past I've given serious consideration to arbitraging out my own secular tasks to indians or whathaveyou
mircea_popescu: have a team of specialist appliers to jobs, dump all the task in some flatfile for you folks to pass around encrypted, and that's pretty much it.
asciilifeform: and could even be possible, if heathens weren't jawdroppingly retarded
mircea_popescu: get it 500 remote jobs, can just do the work in here.
a111: Logged on 2018-12-12 15:10 mircea_popescu: hey Mocky_ how's the hunt going ?
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-12#1879959 painfully slow from my pov, got three phone interviews coming up but not on the calendar yet cuz peeps taking time off. a bunch more that I'm waiting to hear about.
mircea_popescu: "why does joe have voucher hospital x accepts where moe does not ?" "cuz visa black platinum blalblabla" "wut ?" "his employer is in the wot and vouches for him!"
mircea_popescu: meanwhile "money" in the dubloon sense is going away (certainly away from the hands of the plebs) to be replaced by... abstract version, plastic, db-money. so how does new man pay for doctor ? oh, he gives to hospital ~the voucher his place of employment gave him~.
mircea_popescu: it's stupidly kept "closed", but what do you want to know when talking to a doctor ? "the list of previous cases plox" right ? ie "wot ?"
mircea_popescu: think about it -- they "pay" doctors, in fredericus rex dubloons, while they ALSO insist they... do what ? document their work, yes ? ie, construct the basis of wot-based payment.
mircea_popescu: the money of http://btcbase.org/log/2014-03-10#553680 und die hundert millionen in meinem schatz is eminently NOT the money of "$5 turn knob - $9995 know which" (i can't find teh logline nao)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rather analogous to the lumped approximation of maxwell that engineers typically work with
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: money is shorthand, i.e. simply the 'binders' of http://www.loper-os.org/?p=165#selection-165.74-165.439
mircea_popescu: and i suspect this fundamental intuition is what drives a lot of high socialism (like high protestantism, the nonsense among intelligent folks, as opposed to low) -- the intuition that the 1800 notion of money, perfectly adequate as it is for concretes, utterly fails on abstracts and what one needs is a lot more abstracts than concretes.
mircea_popescu: ie, he wants sufficient claim to fame as to make the "i'd like to live rather than die" proposition defensible. he doesn't even want money as such at all
mircea_popescu: he wants ~to be able to get other professionals to help him when he needs it~, he doesn't want "more dough" specifically and as such.
mircea_popescu: which is ultimately the problem here -- note the orig formulation wasn't in "so many dollars" terms. it was very much nearly the http://trilema.com/2013/regarding-money/
mircea_popescu: there's no market forces available.
mircea_popescu: but the 1900s gold dubloons do NOT work for this. because lines of code, or "eyeballs upon cell cultures" are NOT like barels of fish.
asciilifeform: right -- even if yer king, resources still finite. consider stalin's dilemma of whether to withdraw zhukov's army from far east. ( banked on zorge's report that jp will not break peace treaty, and withdrew 80% . but still had to leave some )
mircea_popescu: at this juncture, if the king falls ill every doctor in the realm will crowd the palace, and if the provincial governor of taiwan happens to need apendectomy he might even die.
mircea_popescu: suppose suppose the lordship owns the world, in all particulars, entirely. the last rebel was long ago executed. i can write to any and all doctors, "hey, please X". so can you. so can etcetera.
mircea_popescu: however you call it. but it seems to me, which was the original driver, it seems to me naggum's dilemma illustrates a missing chunk rather than anything else.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the item you were thinking of, then, i'd call impedance mismatch loss, rather than plain resistive
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually the girls tie my shoes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah, that's not at ALL what was meant by "resistive loss". what was meant was, some labour wastage will occur through guy A getting 1.epsilon the work he needs while guy B getting 1-epsilon and perhaps dying for it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's is, let's suppose, 1%, however much time he spends tying his shoes and operating the levers of his outer empire
mircea_popescu: yeah, that's a whole other can of intricate strange. i wasn't gonna address it till as you say, some l1 folks move on.
asciilifeform: ( in case forgot, asciilifeform spends 80+% of time on perpetrating saecular warcrimes in microshit land, rather than anyffing useful )