assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
thestringpuller: "There is one company/cryptocurrency/platform which claims to occupy an interesting space between Bitcoin and altcoins, between DC and AC: Stellar, backed by Stripe. Its CTO, one Jed McCaleb, created Mt. Gox, the first big Bitcoin exchange (and sold it to Mark Karpelès long before Mt. Gox’s notorious implosion began.) He then created Ripple–which, he says curtly, “didn’t work out“–before moving to Stellar to “do
scoopbot: New post on The Whet by han@thewhet: http://thewhet.net/2014/how-to-blame-others-and-entertain-people/
thestringpuller: is cazalla awake? or did the merriment wear him down already?
dignork: BingoBoingo: even though giving private key is a stupid way to do it (you can prove the same by signature), normally I wouldn't care about leaked privkey, which ideally was used only once. Unless the key is also used for gribble, but then, who would use non-random key for grubble auth. Where do you see the problem?
BingoBoingo: Yeah, almost sucks as much as the Schilbach wallet which I can not yet evaluate
cazalla: the fuck is this clams bullshit on just-dice, they really expect i will send them btc private key to claim clams?
RagnarDanneskjol: so far so good - its beach weather this week, so not quite wintery. you?
[]bot: Unable to get details for bet 1089: Get http://bitbet.us/bet/1089/?json: dial tcp 185.56.137.194:80: ConnectEx tcp: A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond.
BingoBoingo: joecool: Well, considering the entire premise of an android phone is carrying around a demilitarized zone between yourself and google sure.
xanthyos: i thought none of the android app wallets were safe. are you just testing it with a small amount?
BingoBoingo: So I apparently have an Android phone, but it is a shitty prepaid burner deal which is a plus. On the downside I am just now discovering all of the ways the Schildbach wallet sucks.
Adlai: If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link. (Not all users will see this; there is a karma threshold.) If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did.
decimation: I guess pretty paranoid is the answer ;(
Adlai: are we still entertaining the notion that saffron reads HN, not just on the front page, but on the Ask HN page - but didn't have an HN account until now?
ben_vulpes: follow BingoBoingo's link? read logs? i don't know that she did/does either.
decimation: otherwise, we are to believe that she trolls low-rated HN stories?
decimation: if she actually 'is disgusted with irc', why would she continue to read the logs and follow bingo's link?
decimation: actually, there's very good reason to think it isn't her
decimation: it would be amusing if that draws in a crowd though (the HN thread)
decimation: but given that it was just created (the account) it could have easily been an account that was created by some spamming hobo who reads the logs
Adlai: the problem, and perfection, of irc is that it's just a bunch of words
ben_vulpes: could just be pandering to another audience
decimation: anyway, the pressure to not-lose would be much greater than the pressure to win-big in such a world
decimation: but as asciilifeform has pointed out, the bezzlars (usg) control the entire silicon process stack
decimation: presumably in a world funded primarily by investors actual capitol instead of made-up dollars, the loss of a bitcoin on an idiotic scheme is going to be a loss forever
decimation: this is something that underlies my yearning for 'hard currency': the idea that a hard currency would make defecting in this manner much less profitable
Adlai: on the other hand, proper cooperation strategies could yield a strong enough ecosystem that it could survive defections of individual entities without the entire cooperative system collapsing
decimation: whoever is willing to 'cooperate' and produce hardware/software that actually serves only the customer, will be eaten both those who are willing to defect for a cheap buck
decimation: maybe 'honest' silicon valley is impossible, in the same way that it's impossible for the two prisoners to coorperate, even if it is in their best interests
asciilifeform: who does Adlai think knows the answer to this ?
Adlai: so what's the roadmap for liberating honest silicon's ability to self-reproduce from the monkeys that are trying to choke it down?
decimation: 'give us stuff in exchange for these really valuable promises to pay bezzlars!'
asciilifeform: the physical components of a mega-chumpatron have to be made somewhere.
decimation: they make & implement usg policy, and allow stooges to stand in front of the microphones to take the heat
decimation: and they are largely powered by academic types who are 'do-ocracy' types
asciilifeform: it's the qualcomms.
decimation: except they achieved lock-in by getting usg to enforce their comms standard & getting the cell phone ownership to agree
asciilifeform: the freedom of the semiconductor belongs - not! to the fellow with the factory - but the one who controlls the entire process stack
decimation: asciilifeform: this (arm's) was almost exactly the same business model as qualcomm's
decimation: yet there's just enough 'freedom' to make the little people think that they actually control something
decimation: yes, there is much wisdom here. the electronics market consists nearly entirely of lock-in, either by complexity, inertia, or usg enforcement (patents, etc)
asciilifeform: (an undergrad can throw a mips-compatible fpga core together in a day)
asciilifeform: arm is sufficiently complex that folks were stuck licensing it verbatim, rather than reimplementing
asciilifeform: (arm makes a mockery of the whole risc concept, hundreds of weird instructions with a multitude of modifier bits, hilariously varies addressing mechanisms, etc)
asciilifeform: every day i wonder why the 'arm' architecture so thoroughly beat 'mips' (closest competitor in the 'risc' world) in the markets
decimation: by zeks, who work for companies whose entire business model consists of locking people into their bullshit by whatever means
asciilifeform: virtually every little gibblet of the entire stack
asciilifeform: ever wonder whence we got the crock of shit that is usb ?
asciilifeform: i'll point out that the complexity of the designs, which makes straight plagiarism so irresistible to the asians, doesn't happen in a vacuum.
decimation: if the world were reversed and china was designing stuff for us foundries to stamp out, it would certainly be the case that us folks would try to do it themselves
asciilifeform: for the work to actually be his own, non-plagiarized? in the confucian world, this is actually an anti-value
asciilifeform: see the siberian pipeline incident.
decimation: if you pay $mils per year, people know who the hell you are
asciilifeform: but that also isn't the point
asciilifeform: and the winblows.
asciilifeform: point is the control.
decimation: asciilifeform: what it means is that they can enrich themselves privately by stamping out copies and selling shit on ebay
asciilifeform: what does it mean if asia has all of the factories, but is utterly dependant on winblows and a stack of monopoly turdware as tall as empire state building ?
decimation: yeah the bell labs guy has issues hiring because very few schools are willing to pay the bezzlars required to actually experiment with high-end process
asciilifeform: aha and they won't even take your job if you aren't using cadence's cell libs.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah and there are some esoteric telco applications too
asciilifeform: afaik the only customer is usg.
decimation: the annoying australian and some guy from cleveland interview a guy who works for bell labs designing >100 ghz analog ics
assbot: An Interview with Shahriar from The Signal Path - Quisquous Quivering Quadripole | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1A78JTP )
decimation: actually that reminds me, this is an interesting podcast: http://www.theamphour.com/228-an-interview-with-shahriar-from-the-signal-path-quisquous-quivering-quadripole/
asciilifeform: just the bitcoin miners.
decimation: plus it's cash in their pocket
asciilifeform: at the risk of repeating the last 100+ xilinx threads - the closed architecture of -all- fpga vendors is specifically to enable this 'business model'
decimation: lol I didn't realize they had 'trialware' like that
asciilifeform: most of the more complicated ones being unusable in practice (e.g. ethernet controller that 'expires' after N frames)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i made an app, called the asciilifeform turd counter
decimation: all of which is abused by the vendor tools & magically wedged with vendor ip
decimation: yeah, that's pretty much the case. the vhdl codebase is littered with 'don't touch this' crazy code
asciilifeform: decimation: months of experimentation << the end result is a product which cannot be understood, function of which cannot be rationally explained, and which will break on the slightest deviation from the parent hardware
asciilifeform: conform to the timing diagram - or die.
asciilifeform: either runs, or not.
asciilifeform: incidentally, fpga work shits straight into the faces of folks who think that 'anything can be slow-prototyped'
asciilifeform: virtually impossible to do well from scratch (vs vendor turdware) without the unobtainable internal docs
decimation: I've heard from folks who have that it is a pain in the ass
asciilifeform: normally these are determined experimentally.
decimation: who knows if the authors had access to such knowledge
decimation: asciilifeform: there's probably an nda'ed talmud of errata that is supplied to the actual chipset dealers
decimation: ideally one would find a simultaneous set of 'hits' over an area so one could backtrack the cosmic rays
asciilifeform: just forget a refresh sometimes. or violate one of the many mandatory command sequences.
asciilifeform wrote a ddr2 controller for 'xilinx' chip once. it is amazingly easy to create a dysfunctional one with behaves like, for instance, the one pictured in that paper.
asciilifeform: decimation: overpowers << skeptical until demonstrated in field (i.e. x86 pc) rather than laboratory (fpga with custom dram controller)
decimation: asciilifeform: re: ecc dram << the paper claims that they can cause so many errors that it overpowers 'correct one detect two' style ECC dram
decimation: slur << that's the dumbest thing I've heard yet
thestringpuller: "The richest 500 addresses have continued to accumulate bitcoin through all the highs and lows."
asciilifeform: dignork: forget code. the thing, as stated on own site, doesn't even threaten to make elementary sense.
asciilifeform: it's dreary and insults the reader's intelligence merely by existing.
asciilifeform: i deliberately didn't even bring up the whole thing's (almost certain) reliance on tor and related idiocy
asciilifeform: arbitrators won't immediately run off and do whatever the fuck they like with the secret because... because what? magical drm goggles glued onto their skulls?
asciilifeform: no. why would they do that. we have l33t crypt0-d00dz now.
asciilifeform: what it actually takes in real life, to establish the kind of relationships needed
asciilifeform: 'slur' << i love how these nitwits show no symptoms whatsoever of having bothered to study how secrets were sold historically, from babylon to cold war, etc
Adlai: hm. haven't poked around this corner of the internet much lately
Adlai: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8794707 << we're about to find out the width of the venn diagram intersection between #startups and here
asciilifeform: and disputes settled by showing the actual secret to five randomly selected lusers
assbot: CDC reports potential Ebola exposure in Atlanta lab - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/13wJdtY )
asciilifeform: memory paper << snore. 1) serious folks using dram - use ecc dram. 2) serious folks do not allow opponent to execute arbitrary strange on their von neumann box 3) serious folks doing truly serious things use sram.
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-boy-blog-network/
cazalla: thestringpuller: I guess it technically is already XMas for cazalla <<< 830am xmas morning but still, cuppa tea and read logs before my first family xmas opening gifts
jurov: https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~appel/papers/memerr.pdf << there was already research on using much more random memory errors than this
decimation: at any rate, it's proof of the kind of error against which asciilifeform regularly pontificates, that is, a hardware error that is known only to the vendors of the chips
dignork: so you have some more than frequent pattern, it should match the actual data that you want to write.
jurov: and "behavior of most victim cells depended of other cells" << also usable for information exfiltration
dignork: so it normally cannot read your /dev/whatever to check the physical location, but sure, it's potentially DOS/crash, not an effective code execution.
decimation: certainly the js memory is not randomly moved every context switch
dignork: it does, but it's rather sandboxed.
jurov: because there are clever interleaving schemes to allow for faster reading
dignork: well, sure, but these reads need to happen nearby executed code, which by random error turns into something executable, etc. Just can't construct any scenario it realisticly happens. But I might be wrong.
jurov: there's certainly a way how to remotely cause already present software to repeatedly read memory
dignork: well, the thing is, if you already can write into his memory, at very specific locations, you probably already running there :)
decimation: umm, you can corrupt the victim's memory by executing a loop?
dignork: decimation: cool paper, scary, otherwise I didn't bother to calcualte probabilities for uncontrolled random scenario, or non-DOS attack vector.
decimation: https://www.ece.cmu.edu/~safari/pubs/kim-isca14.pdf << "By reading from the same address in DRAM, we show that it is possible to corrupt data in nearby addresses"
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2014/12/coinbase-tracing-user-transactions/
davout: in other news josh garza gets an 'honorable mention' in coindesk's list of 'bitcoin's most influential people of 2014'
BingoBoingo: It's taken some time getting the right balance of dense enough and informative enough for newswriting
thestringpuller: the girly calendar is a nice touch tho
BingoBoingo: Honestly I think they do it to get rid of whatever wine wasn't selling.
BingoBoingo: My favorite liquor store for the second year in a row gifted me with a bottle of wine and a girly calendar when I came in for cigarettes.
BingoBoingo: So Today I came out once again net positive in the course of my Christmas shopping.
kakobrekla: but now im stuck with it as the thing wont amortize over 750k years
kakobrekla: i paid 500 btc for the car but no taxes.
jurov: southern somalia?
jurov: lol i'm a miser too... why you though otherwise?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I don't think people really stay in this channel unless they are misers.
jurov: good to know, i'm not going either
kakobrekla not going there afaik.
dignork: :( sorry, I'm leaving states in a few days, gift cards are of no use for me, otherwise I'd buy some from you.
thestringpuller: thx for the extended transparency and due diligence with your fiduciary duty
jurov: they: "um... dunno.. let me ask"
jurov: and i had inquiries like "we want api for coinbr" me: "it is possible, just very ratelimited... let's do it together, can you do 100BTC volume?"
jurov: <mike_c> [20141223 14:37] have you ever thought about adding the ability to short mpex stocks to coinbr? << coinbr is on hold atm. on one side it didn't make almost anything this year, on other side mpex is just not there reliability wise for solid service
thestringpuller: It was the day before X-Mas, all was silent, even in #b-a. Nothing stirred, not even a bot.
jurov: <mircea_popescu> somehow nobody goes "o look, mp paid 100s of btc so bitcoin financial space may exist" << you know, that space practically does not exist for them
BingoBoingo: It's interesting how in the US the title Secretary of State can alternately refer to the chief cocksucker at the Federal level and at the state level the chief Notarizing authority.
decimation: asciilifeform: wrt the state department, anything important being discussed with us 'trade partners' is discussed by private parties conducting the trade
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, in the same way plot from "Watchmen" would be effective.
assbot: The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Cold War Spy Games Show the Moral Bankruptcy of the US National Security State ... ( http://bit.ly/1xJY9SR )
decimation: http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/december/20/cold-war-spy-games-show-the-moral-bankruptcy-of-the-us-national-security-state/
decimation: the result was largely: bureaucrats who appear to be idiots in public also are in fact idiots in private
asciilifeform: decimation: department of state << try this gedankenexperiment. what could they possibly leak, that would have a measurable effect - with or without the cooperation of the state-controlled media
decimation: actually usg would be much better off if it simply disbanded the department of state
decimation: asciilifeform: ah good point. you are saying the entire state dept. doesn't matter
assbot: The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Victoria Nuland's 'Ukraine-gate' Deceptions ... ( http://bit.ly/1vlV85s )
decimation: http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2014/february/09/victoria-nulands-ukraine-gate-deceptions/ << ron paul picked up the angle
asciilifeform: the secure facilities (actual ones, vs. ordinary 'favourite son' golden toilet contracts) are used. by the folks who matter.
asciilifeform: because they (correctly!) believed that it simply does not matter.
decimation: one wonders how many billions were spent to deploy the secure facilities that they fail to use
decimation: asciilifeform: My point is that no one in the entire us media 'noticed' that the intercept (which was supposedly sophisticated) came from usg 'leaders' talking on unsecure lines
asciilifeform: all that resulted was a leak, of facts which anglo media will never print - so it's almost as good, from their point of view, as 'never happened'
decimation: the original blackberry actually took over an older 'pager-like' frequency allocation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataTAC
asciilifeform: ukraine << so what. did even a single usg minion die from the intercepted phone ?
BingoBoingo: Microphoneless smart Pnohe is the way to Pnohe, because BB pager recieves calls, records a message. To return calls you battery up a flip phone.
asciilifeform: decimation: usg 'leaders' think of themselves as being above such trivialities as secure communications << of what concern is what a muppet says to another muppet ?
BingoBoingo: joecool: I don't have problems with big UX changes. I care more about what is happening and why. Unsolder the microphone and camera in old blackberry, works as a pager like god intended. Unsolder camera and microphone in shitty LG android phone doesn't work as pager or play angry birds!
decimation: principal with the Chertoff Group, a Washington-based consulting firm led by former senior U.S. security and intelligence officials."
decimation: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/07/ukraine-phonecall-idUSL2N0LC1E120140207 " Mark Weatherford, a former deputy under secretary for cybersecurity with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, said that some senior government officials were issued mobile handsets that are capable of encrypting conversations but typically do not use them "It is expensive. They are different phones. They are cumbersome," said Weatherford, now a
joecool: otherwise i never would have considered blackberry, it's a shame they have a worthless marketing division
BingoBoingo: joecool: Ah, before I did BBOS 7 I was on Symbian whatever and then Android.
joecool: oh see i hated BBOS7, i came from the harmattan/maemo background prior
decimation: one gets the picture that usg 'leaders' think of themselves as being above such trivialities as secure communications
joecool: i like my Z10 tbh, only thing i'd improve is better battery life, i'm a bit concerned by some of the new "features" coming down in 10.3.x releases
BingoBoingo: I have to confess the new blackberry classic does tempt... But for extra antifeatures over flip phone is unappealing.
asciilifeform: the original obamaphone!
decimation: except that's probably the retard version
asciilifeform: anything that does not conform to this principle, i argue is ipso facto not secure for any reasonable definition of the word.
asciilifeform: the principal thing-not-to-do is complexity that prevents fits-in-head
asciilifeform: decimation: but my sources believe they're under continuous bureaucratic siege to go 'standards compliant'
asciilifeform: decimation: usg did have a few 'parallel universes' of computing. there is, afaik, still a lab or two that use symbolics boxes, for example
asciilifeform: decimation: with own parallel universe, where neither 'microshit office' nor 'bash' nor 'openssl', nor any of the constituent parts, are in use ?
decimation: asciilifeform: I think it's the case that there is (or was) some meta-usg lab that could conceive and develop secure terminal - perhaps already has
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: notice how the term 'trojan' has mostly faded from Official claptrap re: 'seekoority'
asciilifeform: decimation: this is about as thinkable to present-day academics - and turdware industrialist peddlers alike - as galois theory was to the romans
decimation: the fbi claims it was an email attachment that dropped some scanners that guess passwords to smb shares
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: actual exploit in the sense that no cooperation is needed from the luser
decimation: imagine if the billions poured into 'cybersecurity' were spent on constructing an actual secure terminal from first principles
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But how often can actual exploit be truly distinguished from McDonalds exploit fed to the consuminator?
decimation: asciilifeform: I agree with your hypothesis in that I think USG genuinely guides the computer industry into insecurity
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In that case there hasn't ever been an "attack" in the history of the internet
thestringpuller: I'm pretty sure there is some privatize black site that is superior to USG version.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: reading from only the official material, that is precisely the kind of 'attack' involved.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: it seems privatized groups are better at disappearing acts than the USG's agency.
BingoBoingo: Stirring shit up with North Korea is a natural move for the United States, because it distracts from the United States surrendering to Cuba to end that battle of the cold war.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: let's say you want some idiot dead. you bring him a loaded pistol, and say 'here. please put in mouth, here's the trigger.' he does.
asciilifeform: decimation: only if it sells the right agenda.
BingoBoingo: Whatever truth there might have been to who attacked sony is gone. Too late now.
asciilifeform: 'best' korea << not even a necessary hypothesis
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: For all I know Snowden was a plant for the purpose of stalling and disappearing aspiring "second" leaker
asciilifeform: aka the snowden censors.
asciilifeform: and the whole greenwald/poitras/etc shitgnome gang
BingoBoingo: decimation: If you can find an angle that makes the mere filing of a lawsuit interesting write it up for qntra and claim some shares. Otherwise I'm going to keep digging for more skidmarks on Preet's undies.
decimation: if usg supports the suit to annoy snowden, they tacitly admit that they are stewards of the taxpayer's property, and open themselves up to claims against malfeasance
decimation: BingoBoingo: the lawsuit is actually amusing, because it divides usg against itself
SuperEddy: NOW IS THE TIME TO REPENT AND HAVE MERCY IF YOU COULD ARRIVE IN GODS PRESENCE WITHOUT THE BLOOD COVERING YOU HE WOULD LITERRALLY ANITLAITE YOU, YOU WOULD SCREAM FOR HELL
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: he has a good chance. just needs a few sympathetic apparatchik judges.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure. Winning is news. Filing is What $20-$250 at the county courthouse?
SuperEddy: its not just calvinism but the bible says it
BingoBoingo: lol, I thought about newsing that up but... Does every rural person who files a lawsuit deserve their own story then?
assbot: 'Citizenfour' Producers Sued Over Edward Snowden Leaks (Exclusive) - The Hollywood Reporter ... ( http://bit.ly/1sWfJfV )
decimation: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/citizenfour-producers-sued-edward-snowden-759839 << lol guy sues the snowden film producers on the theory that snowden 'stole' the property of the us taxpayer
decimation: kakobrekla: bounce off the moon << yeah, radio hams do this, but the antenna farm required to make it work is quite large
cazalla: unless they give it to me, it's not going on qntra
BingoBoingo: Looks like the usual begging
asciilifeform: cazalla: seems like just the kind of organized begging that site is famous for, no ?
thestringpuller: cazalla: other qntra peeps BingoBoingo >> http://www.reddit.com/r/millionairemakers/comments/2q36z6/reddit_lets_make_a_millionaire/