fluffypony: the_scourge: Poelstra's write-up is normally my go-to when PoS comes up in convo: https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/alts.pdf
thestringpuller: Is ethereum not dead yet?
the_scourge: the freicoin solution is shockingly simple. my mind appreciates that :D
mircea_popescu: this is pretty much the "us academia" solution to everything. "make it more complicated, people won't notice"
fluffypony: the_scourge: Vitalik's approach to solving anything is to layer complexity on top, his Delegated PoS thing is just ugh
the_scourge: fluffypony: you may very well be right. what are the top reasons why not?
fluffypony: the_scourge: PoS is not a terrible idea, it just doesn't work
the_scourge: fluffypony: there was a post about possible PoS vulnerabilities written by Vitalik. for what his opinion is worth
mircea_popescu: well there's a difference between wanting and trying things out you know. i also want to find a cure for cancer, but i'm not going around feeding people pills.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure realsolid was the first altscammer.
mircea_popescu: which then got spent.
mircea_popescu: then artforz found it had a hole, and then it changed to having 12 magic nodes with 10 mn "unspendable" coins each
mircea_popescu: if you look, throughout 2011/12 some mentally deficient dank clone spent his time producing prose (not so different from the gavincoin crapolade) professionally explaining how bitcoin is obsolete
fluffypony: you basically just have to have the wallet open
mircea_popescu: and for other people to be all like "I MAKE MONEY WHILE YOIU SLEEP!!11"
assbot: The Institute for Cultural Diplomacy and Wikipedia | copyrighteous ... ( http://bit.ly/1D264vz )
mircea_popescu: kinda what the web even exists these days. for people like mako to be all fucking weird (they call it "altrusitic" of course - http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/the-institute-for-cultural-diplomacy-and-wikipedia )
fluffypony: they had MMXIV with 2014% staking
fluffypony: the new altcoin PoS scam is "hyperinflation"
fluffypony: yeah they do
fluffypony: they make hundreds of BTC on one scam, then lose half of it to another scam the next day
fluffypony: there's a shitload of liquidity in alts
mircea_popescu: if this liquidity is natural i'll eat my hat. for one thing, the people interested in alts are interested in alts specifically because they're bitcoin poor. to propose to me that they are 100x more likely to trade btc than usd seems beyond counterintuitive.
fluffypony: that has the most liquidity
mircea_popescu: where is the official place to trade monero ?
mircea_popescu: seems it only exists to trade xmr this thing, since https://poloniex.com/exchange#btc_str styill spends 90% of the page listing the xmr market. weird.
mircea_popescu: so according to poloniex, 10 cents worth of stellar (at 0.004) and 64 bitcoins' worth of same (at 0.00whatever) sold in the past what is this, day ?
BigBitz: selling 10M STR would destroy their market.
Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: you have to verify everything,, there is no point if i tell you
mircea_popescu: where does it even trade these days ?
mircea_popescu: can you even sell 10mn "stellar" without ruining the market permanently ?
mircea_popescu: that's whence the 1250 comes from
Rippleflip_: jurov: the bankrolls we have are quite small
PeterL: do you have a report on monthly income produced over the past year?
Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: i don't know. we set the price on the low end compared to other gambling site valuations
mircea_popescu: plus perhaps a little something for the missus ?
mircea_popescu: let me guess, it would roughly repay what you think the valuable value of your time spent on it so far
mircea_popescu: that's cool, but wh ydo you think the site's worth something in bitcoin ? neither ripple nor stellars are worth anything in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: so what do these do, exactly ? some sort of coin flip thing ?
Rippleflip_: we run stellarflip.com and rippleflip.com and are possibly selling these services
mircea_popescu: To see the cast list for Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on the attatchment.
mircea_popescu: haha check out the almost-mscomic font.
mircea_popescu: computers are evil, there's no two ways about it.
PeterL: the profession of prostitute includes alot of fucking ...
mircea_popescu: PeterL i hope for the sake of your soul that you're being kako-level sarcastic.
jurov: https://github.com/saltstack-formulas/epel-formula insanity. this recipe properly downloads and checksums a gpg key for epel repository, and then happily uses another one
lobbes: woo, finally got my VPS up and running. Now I just have to teach myself the basics of linux (Debian 7). So far I know how to view my current directory. Next step: running a node!
jurov: adlai: if you have problems opening exchange account, maybe we can do it together. but i'm not touching btc-e or buttstamp
thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2uu1iu/permanently_keeping_the_1mb_antispam_restriction/ << redditards are so dumb
kakobrekla: they basically claim random ftw, which is lulzy
cazalla: from a ransomware news piece.. "Once their files are returned, the Niedermayers plan to have their hard drive professionally wiped, and will change their IP address."
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 06:53:48; ben_vulpes: i know you don't like the guy, but nuking his record?
punkman: scammer pretended to be the CEO, told employee to plz send monies to china: "For the last months we have been working, in coordination and under the supervision of the SEC, on acquiring a Chinese company. ... This is very sensitive, so please only communicate with me through this email, in order for us not to infringe SEC regulations."
fluffypony: what's Anthem?
punkman: "We continue working to identify the members who are impacted. We will begin to mail letters to impacted members in the coming weeks."
punkman: "if you are Anthem member, or if you were an Anthem member, you've been doxxed... and quite comprehensively. And you were doxxed nearly two months ago. Or maybe not, because Anthem goes out of its way to NOT tell you when this occurred. If you were affected here's how they will notify you:"
assbot: Jay Electronica - Eternal Sunshine (The Pledge) (Full 15-minute version) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18PUdpq )
Vexual: luckily the book doesnt nessitate anything in particular
punkman: danielpbarron: this one? "bitcoin-armv5-bastard includes the 'orphanage burner'"
assbot: Confirmation That Photosynthesizing Sea Slugs Steal Genes From Algae ... ( http://bit.ly/18PSfp1 )
ben_vulpes: mebbe a tidy little dinosaur in the footer
trinque: I'm fiddling with the publisher
ben_vulpes: is the flatfile host up yet?
trinque: danielpbarron: you give it your key; it checks the web api, adds the key to the keyring if you're in l1/l2
trinque: add-key adds your public key to the bot's keyring
gribble: You are now authenticated for user ben_vulpes with key 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA
phillipsjk: I authe with assbot, not gribble.
ben_vulpes: you'll bring der furer down on me and i'm trying to get to ars in the spring
ben_vulpes: oh well clearly fuck right off then.
ben_vulpes: especially when that key simply parrots that which is only said by those who wish to wreck the scarcity and value of core bitcoin economics.
ben_vulpes: the point that i'm making (for the clinically slow) is that the odds of a key from...2013 just showing up and having anything pointful to say, especially when citing bitcointalk as proof or substantiation of anything are...low.
BingoBoingo: <phillipsjk> It has and will change. The 1MB block limit was introduced to stop spam. You seem to be more militant than luke-Jr who called Bitcoin gambling sites spam. You appear to call all "trivial" transactions spam. << His definition of spam is both more complex and stupider than that
phillipsjk: No, back in 2009, my ISP said that they reserve the right to "inject ads in the browser". I have been singing my e-mail ever since.
punkman: trinque: if you can build the transaction elsewhere
ben_vulpes: the notion that the bitcoin protocol needs testing is pure FUD, from the enemies of hard crypto.
trinque: will my btcd still fart transactions at other nodes if I haven't finished syncing the blockchain?
ben_vulpes: there is no "testing" of bitcoin.
ben_vulpes: the experiment succeded.
ben_vulpes: the blocks chain.
ben_vulpes: the sigs hash.
ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: ya well bitcoin monetized, and monero hasn't yet and likely won't so that's the kind of comment that paints you as entirely ignorant of the domain.
phillipsjk: Currently Bitcoin is testing whether a secure, networked application is even possible.
phillipsjk: Well, thanks for the chat.
phillipsjk: That is the primary reason I am wary of Monero actually. 1 minute block|
phillipsjk: I always cringe when lusers on the forum brags some alt has faster "confirmation" times.
ben_vulpes: today, 3 mining consortiums might find a block within just a few minute of each other
ben_vulpes: propagation of blocks over the network was at that time...weird.
ben_vulpes: the 1MB limit is actually in place because of block propagation chaos.
trinque: dude the average block size has to be what, 250kb right now?
phillipsjk: <ben_vulpes> anyways, block limit ain't going anywhere. it diddles important scarcity characteristics, and the system isn't even in steady-state yet.
fluffypony: phillipsjk: the 1MB limit is not to stop spam.
ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: the 1MB limit is not to stop spam.
punkman: phillipsjk: the 1MB limit is not to stop spam
phillipsjk: It has and will change. The 1MB block limit was introduced to stop spam. You seem to be more militant than luke-Jr who called Bitcoin gambling sites spam. You appear to call all "trivial" transactions spam.
ben_vulpes: anyways, block limit ain't going anywhere. it diddles important scarcity characteristics, and the system isn't even in steady-state yet.
ben_vulpes: at this point, i'm seriously entertaining the notion that phillipsjk is 3 phillipinos frantically composing sentences that sort-of make sense in english
trinque: you want to build your visa? build it on bitcoin, but don't systemd the thing and decide it must have a visa built in
ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: the vast majority of people run winblowz and use iOS devices. are we to count them in our set of people who might use bitcoin someday?
trinque: all sorts of other financial instruments can be derived from bitcoin once the thing itself is safe
punkman: phillipsjk: the proposal is not to have 1MB block forever and ever
phillipsjk: The top 1% will be lucky to buy Bitcoin once per decade.
ben_vulpes: too bad he insists on waltzing in here and telling us about how the proletariat must transact in bitcoin several times per year.
ben_vulpes: if you touch bitcoin, you are going up against the fiat state. end of story.
trinque: or hell, let me run trinquecoin from my laptop; I'll be the whole network
trinque: what TPS will the network do if it fails entirely?
trinque: phillipsjk: dem stats is not the fucking point
ben_vulpes: danielpbarron: anyone who could hold bitcoin (in the sense of actually controlling their keys, robustly) should trivially be able to wield either credit cards or local fiat
trinque: I'm at like 37% of rsync'ing leveldb turds up to the server
phillipsjk: The problem is with 1MB blocks, Bitcoin will only be used for inter-bank settlements. Either that, or remain a niche. We are talking less than 1 million users world-wide.
ben_vulpes: even though all i can ever aspire to own in terms of vehicle is that crown jewel in the plastic bezzle crown (the honda element), i yet recognize those valuable scarce and uncounterfeitable things like bitcoin and well-husbanded women.
ben_vulpes: the 1mb line is about preserving that scarcity in the face of all who'd turn gold into paper in Schwabe accounts and make your dollar into ninety cents tomorrow.
ben_vulpes: bitcoin is a rare, scarce, unpollutable thing unlike everything else under the domain of the fiat tyrants.
ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: well pipe down, read logs, learn something and then start derping about "power trips"
ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: the san-serif headers are kinda..bleh
assbot: Black Sails OST - The Golden Vanity (feat Doug Lacy) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zCaiaV )
phillipsjk: Buy and sell BItcoin following the *letter* of the law. I am passive-aggressive that way.
ben_vulpes: the mind boggles.
ben_vulpes: i know you don't like the guy, but nuking his record?
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user muxne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=muxne | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=muxne | Rated since: Sun Jun 22 00:11:14 2014
ben_vulpes: back to the deeds, you
ben_vulpes: no more than merely existing gives you a say in how the world works.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
phillipsjk: ;;later tell mircea_popescu I sincerely hope the 1MB line in the sand is not simply a power-trip.
ben_vulpes: phillipsjk: the last million transactions are probably by volume idiocy spawned by wallets that inhibit address reuse
assbot: Change The Bank By Importing StartUp Culture | Fintech by Bernard Lunn ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6i0kE )
ben_vulpes: http://bernardlunn.com/2015/02/03/change-the-bank-by-importing-startup-culture/ << makes muh brain hurt
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> now i can't quite beat the thing senseless with my helmet as, well, ussa << disappeared into sack?
trinque: let me get the thing to publish once and I'll see if you're still up for a cig
ben_vulpes: now i can't quite beat the thing senseless with my helmet as, well, ussa
asciilifeform: exercise for student: when you wake up, think of six entirely factually-correct - but disastrously intellectually-crippling - models for some commonplace thing or other.
ben_vulpes: and then proceeeds to march over to intimidate me
assbot: Permanently keeping the 1MB (anti-spam) restriction is a great idea ... ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6edUF )
phillipsjk: DeathAndTaxes on bitcoin talk made a detailed post explaining why the 1MB block size in not good for anything other than inter-bank transfers: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=946236.0 He estimetes 2-4 TPS basked on the last million transactions
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] trinque actually they'll fight you, too. more than one woman got scared shitless of flocks of geese << this one time i was eating a burrito on the waterfront
trinque: BingoBoingo: or say I only read when the light is on
asciilifeform: why, then, suggest it for a computer program?
trinque: select * from qntra; -- streaming version would give me new articles that occur after the query was begun
asciilifeform: except that this is an astonishingly abstruse model for what the lamp/socket do.
trinque: vs say asking "hm, at this point in time are there electrons moving in this wire?" *plug* "Yes." *unplug*
trinque: asciilifeform: yes, the power has been declared to be, then the lamp may make use of that fact as it does
ben_vulpes: every night these koans
trinque: there's this idea of streaming queries that's been kicked around a bit
trinque: -or- when the hell do I get a dataflowputer
trinque: asciilifeform: nah, tis but the rambling of an addict who will never find his fix
punkman: jurov: https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A10/A10-OLinuXino-LIME/open-source-hardware guess we'll end up with this << I had one of these. It doesn't have wifi or built-in NAND, has SATA, can run off battery. Doesn't need binary blobs if you don't care about GPU.
asciilifeform: trinque: ever found the 'easier machine' ?
trinque: that said fuck that shit; I'm sure there's an easier machine to deal with
trinque: I still have the kernel config somewheres
asciilifeform: trinque: finished in the sense of there not remaining a single peripheral that could be described as not entirely working to spec ?
asciilifeform: 'the new state-of-the-art destroyer, her ambitious captain and seemingly fumbling crew were placed under arrest and sent to Bermuda for trial. it was the first time in the history of the United States Navy that an entire ship and her company had been arrested. The William D. Porter was surrounded by Marines when it docked in Bermuda and was held there for several days as the closed-session inquiry attempted to find out what ha
ben_vulpes: punkman: using addnode= to add a node from which to pull the blocks
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Nah, hand listed at least for now. Over the next month or two will work on making categories more useful for browsing since mike_c wanted it so
ben_vulpes: the pay, not so much
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [] a) what chicks and b) what pay. << i can speak to the chicks
ben_vulpes: oh, d'ja hack the whoopies BingoBoingo?
ben_vulpes: thanks for the repro, punkman
assbot: Argentina's president Cristina Kirchner attacked for 'racist' Chinese joke | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1I63Ikf )
cazalla: oh that argentine pres.. what a racist! http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/04/argentinian-president-racist-joke-china-trip
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> chick's so drastically ugly tho... << pretty indicative of the tail to which us brass has access
mircea_popescu: whichever's not 2gb is the one you're working on
mircea_popescu: mod6 they become full at 2gb
mod6: think that's the one to check?
mod6: during debugging, i did see something that mentioned "blk%04d.dat" when looking at the txout.scriptPubKey vector: http://dpaste.com/1E4QQ9A
mircea_popescu: there should also be a bdb based method but it probably would take longer to untangle
mircea_popescu: if the worst comes to worst diff blk00x.dat pre and post
ben_vulpes: instead, instruct me on the arcane art of dumping specific blocks from a bitcoind 0.5.3
mircea_popescu: well is it the same ?
ben_vulpes: while it must surprise everyone here, the fact that i am a process man who's only barely grasped the basics of *nix operation bears trotting out on a *regular* basis apparently
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually this very wedge (though differing tx id) has been documented in the past. see last night's log.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: where did you get them?!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i assume you built them for x11
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the idea with the native cruftery is, he found a reliable way to wedge the bitcoind at a certain heright which just so happens to be the checkpoint
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i did burn in excess of two days attempting to get either a firefox or chrome to connect to x under os x
mircea_popescu: g when their decks are awash. It is only that the other element in man, the lazy, cowardly, debt-bilking adulterer who is inside all of us, can never be suppressed altogether and needs a hearing occasionally."
mircea_popescu: sentiments make no appeal. Nevertheless the high sentiments always win in the end, leaders who offer blood, toil, tears and sweat always get more out of their followers than those who offer safety and a good time. When it comes to the pinch, human beings are heroic. Women face childbed and the scrubbing brush, revolutionaries keep their mouths shut in the torture chamber, battleships go down with their guns still firin
mircea_popescu: here asciilifeform : "I never read the proclamations of generals before battle, the speeches of Führers and prime ministers, the solidarity songs of public schools and left-wing political parties, national anthems, Temperance tracts, papal encyclicals and sermons against gambling and contraception, without seeming to hear in the background a chorus of raspberries from all the millions of common men to whom these high
mod6: i've basically run and break when nBestHeight=167999 and then go from there, but not turning anything meaningful up yet. however, i'm sure i'm not sure how to dig into these vectors properly yet.
asciilifeform: ah then
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: sbcl runs entirely without problem on mac os << so as to say "why bother with gentoo?"?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i somehow got the impression that you were considering gentoo-on-applehw
ben_vulpes: is the point to run sbcl on "strange iron"?
asciilifeform: actually for all i know, they might
asciilifeform: the demented 'broadcom' wireless nics?
ben_vulpes: i'm entirely naive to quirks of the underlying chips.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: for a gentoo like what you describe, i'd go through the headaches of dual booting.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I'm currently counting lines of algol and fixing up the dashboard
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: i yet yearn for the day i dual boot os x and a lispy gentoo
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: lol. The idea of a closure doesn't need to be stretched out across several chapters, but e.g., the cl-ppcre chapter is good for the non-lisper to read.
asciilifeform: 'only the top percentile of programmers... if you can understand this book, you are in the top...'
asciilifeform: that book had possibly the spammiest jacket, for reasonably sane subject matter, of any crackpot self-pub work ever printed.
gabriel_laddel: regarding the preceding discussion on asm, common lisp vs. julia vs. C, the book Let over Lambda is quite good and discusses these and related issues in-depth.
mircea_popescu: you'd normally expect the opposite
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the original point wasn't that there don't exist profilers, but that it's rare for a language to put the bytecode in the programmer's face, and especially for a new and (at least in my perception) hip one.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Vexual: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Vexual | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Vexual | Rated since: never
asciilifeform: i won't say this is the world's best illustration, but it took no more than half a minute to generate.
mircea_popescu: moar like the evil one's used to
asciilifeform: ^ here we've pulled the safety out.
asciilifeform: (amd64, for the very unalert reader)
mircea_popescu: i never said otherwise!
mircea_popescu: well obviously profilers exist. just, people seem sorta shy to put the bytestream in your face so.
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 04:48:10; mircea_popescu: You can see the compiled assembly code for any just typed in function
mircea_popescu: adlai what about the profiler ?
mircea_popescu: the sorts of tediums i have machines do is generally seen as closest to c
adlai wonders whether mircea_popescu has heard of lisp
mircea_popescu: still, this is like the first thing i've seen in nigh on 20 years making me almost feel like trying to code in it.
mircea_popescu: so they are.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Julia is generally aimed in the direction of scientific computing crowd.
mircea_popescu: this would be the first compiler brave enough to expose itself to programmer scrutiny thus
mircea_popescu: You can see the compiled assembly code for any just typed in function
mircea_popescu: it takes them ~3 y.
mircea_popescu: i think it's ripe for a revolution then
BingoBoingo: It's still node.js and iterations on that theme.
decimation: all the 'web developers' have already moved on to node.js or whatever crazy shit of the day
BingoBoingo: I guess even the scientific stuff though is just acaderps prefering python to perl
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo that was the lulziest thing ever. "we'll break with 2.x but still have 1.x issues"
mircea_popescu: decimation other people's could haves you know...
mircea_popescu: decimation except ruby came to peak and then withered before python managed to get a new major version out :D
decimation: comparing guido and linus, one finds guido did all the wrong moves
assbot: Logged on 26-07-2014 18:48:15; asciilifeform: this is why i simply don't get people who continue to think of their relationship with the u.s. court system in legal, rather than military, terms.
assbot: GvR fading away would help but not cure the problem he started, i.e Python desig... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1I5FmHh )
BingoBoingo: <decimation> what about the 'altruism' of mitocondria? << It's not altruistic. It is lazy and wants to be fed with minimum effort.
trinque: might've taken a while but the end result isn't a piece of shit
trinque: almost done rsyncing my wad o blocks to the server; when I come back in a bit imma publish the first bundle
decimation: what about the 'altruism' of mitocondria?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basically, this thread is about new guy trying to make sense of the batshit insane that is b-a.
asciilifeform: wtf is the thread even about