ascii_field: the vars, that is
ascii_field: check that 1) you actually built them 2) results went to the specified dir 3) envir vars got set to point there
mircea_popescu: remarkably, wikipedia manages to write however many words on poe without mentioning the guy was batshit insane.
pete_dushenski: "It seems therefore that for a creative writer possession of the 'truth' is less important than emotional sincerity." << well said
pete_dushenski: this is the railroad vs. freedom debate
mircea_popescu: obviously the garbage composter will take either just as happily, and so would the toilet.
pete_dushenski: this does not include those disposed towards "the starving kids in africa"
mircea_popescu: because, then as now, socialism does not work.
mircea_popescu: his general point is well taken : as whole groups, the burgeois-puritans were more on point than the feudal-catholics. however, (and he says it, but he hides it too because he does not want to confront it) : as elites, the catholics mashed the puritans into the ground.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ed. In seventeenth-century England, for instance, there was a religious and political cleavage which distinctly resembled the left-right antagonism of to-day. Looking back, most modern people would feel that the bourgeois-Puritan viewpoint was a better approximation to truth than the Catholic-feudal one. But it is certainly not the case that all or even a majority of the best writers of the time were puritans."
mircea_popescu: "Mr Upward would no doubt answer that a belief which was appropriate several centuries ago might be inappropriate and therefore stultifying now. But this does not get one much farther, because it assumes that in any age there will be ONE body of belief which is the current approximation to truth, and that the best literature of the time will be more or less in harmony with it. Actually no such uniformity has ever exist
pete_dushenski: "Christianity is simply a set of behavioral patterns that harm other human patterns in some respect and help in others. Catholic priesthood does, however, exhibit parasitic (viral) behavior on fatherhood."
mircea_popescu: "For example, one common trope in various religious traditions is asceticism: the voluntary renunciation of material comforts. Since this tends to be much easier for those who start out wealthy and comfortable, it's an effective status marker."
mircea_popescu: kinda the problem with this guy, he's writing a bizarre sort of fiction.
pete_dushenski: so: in the trash
pete_dushenski: i scanned that dawkins piece a bit more... there were more unfounded claims than i could take
mircea_popescu: "In the more recent past, the Allied victors eradicated militarist traditions in Germany and Japan through their control of the educational system." << lulzy. and of course, defeated japanese and german troops erradicated the same in the us and its allies by... also control of the educational system ?
mircea_popescu: but then again...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes actually i confess i do the same sort of obsessive rereading myself. tho perhaps not on orlov and yarvin
ben_vulpes: not only expects, but welcomes the stake.
mircea_popescu: the similarities are shocking.
pete_dushenski: reading the trilema pieces in his direction were a sufficient cure to reading more
ben_vulpes: i remember some really long stony nights in college going through the works
mircea_popescu: yeah, the guy was verbose.
the_scourge: http://moldbuggery.blogspot.ca/ < here you go. html, under the section titled "a gentle introduction"
pete_dushenski: anyone care to translate this pdf of the_scourge's ? http://www.moreright.net/a-gentle-introduction-to-unqualified-reservations-pdf/
chetty: the_scourge, only 300?
the_scourge: so what carries currency here does not matter. reality matters. that is it. we've been living in a suspension of reality for at least 300 years, so i'm not surprised that our conversation is missing each other
the_scourge: the part about the socialist professors and their books rings esp. true. what you fail to realize is that everything YOU believe falls into the same category (minus the stuff which can be argued from first principles)
mod6: <+punkman> running a node with this line removed: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#0939 . works so far << check out this patch: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000023.html
mircea_popescu: well so then there the conversation ends. you are a believer in some strange notions that don't carry currency here.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: if you want a first principles argument for the existence of the cathedral, that has been given already. i'm not going to repeat it in an IRC channel. everyone knows where to find it, i'm just wondering why you in particular haven't looked at it
mircea_popescu: they're just as much pseudo, the political motivation of pseudoscience makes not on wit of difference.
chetty: <the_scourge> obviously not everyone in the world enjoys prose, otherwise everyone in the world would agree with modlbug that atheists worship equality, not science// atheists worship not worshiping
the_scourge: explain why the concept does not reflect reality
mircea_popescu: the_scourge: wait, are you suggesting that socialism isn't part of The Cathedral? << a) "the cathedral" is about as solid a concept as moldbug's new os.
the_scourge: obviously not everyone in the world enjoys prose, otherwise everyone in the world would agree with modlbug that atheists worship equality, not science
ben_vulpes: hey so why did the hipster burn himself on his coffee?
the_scourge: i agree the perspective here is refreshing and contrarian
chetty: <trinque> +the_scourge | mike_c: i'm starting to think that i've taken a pill which ran an end-run around #b-a ... not sure yet << I came for the bitcoin, stayed for the mindfuck// aren't they the same thing?
trinque: +the_scourge | mike_c: i'm starting to think that i've taken a pill which ran an end-run around #b-a ... not sure yet << I came for the bitcoin, stayed for the mindfuck
chetty: <the_scourge> chetty: are you talking about CHris Kyle? ... i guess he is a 'journalist' lol// no Brian Williams
mike_c: <+the_scourge> trust me, those assertions seem like total nonsense to me now, even though i fully believed them as recently as 3 weeks ago << imagine what you'll whole heartedly believe a month from now!
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: i'm in edmonton. and iirc you're in canada too
the_scourge: trust me, those assertions seem like total nonsense to me now, even though i fully believed them as recently as 3 weeks ago
the_scourge: but yes, we have all been taught our whole lives that religion is for coping, atheists worship 'science', etc etc
pete_dushenski: The God delusion is a parasitic meme because, being alien to reason, it does not serve the interests of the host. << utter nonsense
chetty: so what ya'll think about the 'journalist' caught in the big lie? will it help people 'get it' about the news?
the_scourge: actually to be honest you really need to the gentle introduction and take the red pill, do the original sources on the revolutionary war, then read the dawkins stuff, then 'open letter'
the_scourge: pete_dushenski: if you read how dawkins got pwned, then you'll understand what i mean by religionists
pete_dushenski: their alter is scientism
the_scourge: pete_dushenski: by religionists, i mean atheists
pete_dushenski: and it's not clear to me that religionists are going to risk their necks for paper-pushers
pete_dushenski: perhaps, but not the only ones to learn from
the_scourge: all = the ones we have to worry about
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: all = modern only. rousseau didn't invent socialism
mircea_popescu: i guess then it will get proven.
the_scourge: pete_dushenski: they all are
pete_dushenski: ...assuming "progressives" are in the french revolutionary vein
mircea_popescu: see also the always popular
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> anyway : the only people in a very untenable phys-sec position are the various bureaucrats, us or otherwise. <<
mircea_popescu: cool. so they're getting it.
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: i'd say allah's been around longer so... lindy effect
the_scourge: dude i am arguing the exact opposite. the beueaucrat has NOT power whatsoever. that is the entire point
mircea_popescu: it's their natural fate.
mircea_popescu: there's no need to hold anyone hostage to enact a public gutting of government servants.
mircea_popescu: the only subhuman profession is bureaucracy.
the_scourge: an btw the progressive delusion is FAR more powerful that the allah delusion, it's more craft and more sublte
mircea_popescu: this is not what's being discussed. you proceed from the naive locus where the bureaucrat somehow= the entire world.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: have you ever seen someone explode themselves to influence the course of history? i have, in person
the_scourge: ok hang on. are you REALLY saying that greed is more powerful and delusion (or religion)? because if you want to buy hitmen or hold the entire world ransom to a dirty bomb or nuclear warheads, you're going to 1. have to find really fucking greedy nuclear engineers and/or suicide bombers and/or military guys
the_scourge: pete_dushenski: what... how are we the heirs???
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: 'the new state-of-the-art destroyer << is this the story that late bogart film was based on ? "mutiny on the bounty" i think it was called.
pete_dushenski: hang out here long enough and your fears about phys-sec (and most other things) slowly dissipate
pete_dushenski: this is where we flip the table and say, "now hold on just a minute. if we have the power, and we do, who should be scared of who now?"
pete_dushenski: mostly because that's what they've always done
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: it's worth noting that most people "in bitcoin" tremble in fear a lot
pete_dushenski: so why would we, their heirs ?
mircea_popescu: anyway : the only people in a very untenable phys-sec position are the various bureaucrats, us or otherwise.
pete_dushenski: did the kings and aristocrats that nrx'ers so rose-tintedly adore stay under their sheets all day ?
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: ya the "phys-sec" thing is something i've heard about for years and years now
the_scourge: pete_dushenski: but i need to formulate my concerns. it's mostly to do with ... if you've succeeded in preserving a clean, elegant, un-pwnable bitcoind variant, then all the poser cyperpunks GTFO, leaving only a small minority of (VERY valuable BTC) who are then in a VERY phys-sec vulnerable position
assbot: Logged on 21-01-2015 23:53:56; mircea_popescu: jurov for what it's worth, here's my experience with bitcoin remittances : i sent btc to otc correspondents, ordered wires sent out to the hk account of my local agent, who has paid me dollars, in cash, in argentina. the entire process took less than what it takes to get a letter of credit, and significantly less than what international trade normally settles in.
mircea_popescu: the_scourge the nuclear part is explained here : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-01-2015#987147
pete_dushenski: mine told me the exact opposite
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: huh funny thing that intuition sometimes
assbot: Hey /Outsideness, I'm curious: do you still have the private key for this address ? https://t.co/4euFxZqSW8
mircea_popescu: somehow running a duplicate along with the original or something ?
trinque: that fuss about orphan blocks in btcd's log the other day was a jacked drive, killed 3 ldb files out of 15k
trinque: anybody know how to tell btcd to start from a previous block and re-generate the rest?
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: it does take a significant amount of interest in investing, monetary history, politics, to grasp
mircea_popescu: ask @Outsideness if he still has the priv key to that bitcoin addy ?
the_scourge: pete_dushenski: because most don't quite understand the point. i kinda get the perceived problem (thanks to alf) but the solution, while cool, hasn't struck me as nuclear (yet)
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 06:53:48; ben_vulpes: i know you don't like the guy, but nuking his record?
pete_dushenski: particularly when the pretty girl is friendly and open to conversation like 20/24 hrs every day
pete_dushenski: how long do people have to admire from a distance before talking to the pretty girl ?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: Everyone who wanted qntra to have a category page << remove the <li>, separate them by ; instead ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> chick's so drastically ugly tho... << pretty indicative of the tail to which us brass has access << kinda my supposition yeah. kinda sad if true. the competition to be him is at least 100k to 1. the competition to be her ? it's like superunitary, 0.x to 1.
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: and nuclear weapons most definitely do something
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: i've read more xeno that ur, it so happens
mircea_popescu: if the next 168k blocks fit in 1.25 tb we're so fucked...
mircea_popescu: mod6: looks like 'i've only got 1: blk0001.dat, 985Mb <<< heh how about that, first 168k blocks fit in 1gb, the next 168k blocks fit in 35 gb.
the_scourge: the question is, have NRx found out that we actually live in a world where 'nuclear' weapons don't do anything? that's potentially one of the corellaries to the entire argument
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: this exactly. twas my comment about nrx not grokking economics, money, and the fundaments of power
mircea_popescu: "What is this? The first*, the biggest** and the best*** IRC community." kakobrekla you sly* dog** you*** :D
the_scourge: oh yah he takes it as a manifesto. obviously my reaction would only be for those who are meticulously combing through UR, and haven't even bothered to have a gander at xenosystems yet
mircea_popescu: so in the sense western "intellectuals" migrated to russia in the 30s, they're stuck migrating here anyway.
mircea_popescu: they do not.
pete_dushenski: "If there is a ‘we’ — this is what we believe." <<
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: lol read more closely
assbot: Spending all your time figuring out what kind of “-ism” you and your friends believe in so that you can call each other “whatever-ists” is no way to improve the world. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cyhbhe )
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/17/spending-all-your-time-figuring-out-what-kind-of-ism-you-and-your-friends-believe-in-so-that-you-can-call-each-other-whatever-ists-is-no-way-to-improve-the-world/#comment-8576
pete_dushenski: i think i referenced another one of his articles in the comments section of that first one
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: a handful, sure
mircea_popescu: no, too late to bother visiting.
mircea_popescu: kinda the proof that it's too late.
the_scourge: i think a teenager today would find them obvious.
mircea_popescu: yeah, but in the 90s.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: good advice but as a non-USian who has spent 90% of his life outside the US and 100% of his adult life outside of N/A, and has lived in non-western places as well, i think there could be something said for living for a short while in california or new england
mircea_popescu: (and in this perspective, the holocaust is proper and well deserved fucking punishment. next time - listen better.)
mircea_popescu: the_scourge the standing advice for all usians has been "get the fuck out of the us" for at least a year.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski if you got the guy's email by virtue of him commenting, and you don't mind, drop him a note saying i loathe blogspot, but if he has time drop by for a chat.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: i can see the difference
the_scourge: oh! ... i joined today at the point where you said "opportunity of a lifetime" < perhaps slightly /sarc ? :)
the_scourge: BigBitz: sorry, was it your friend Rippleflip who was the proprietor of those sites
BigBitz: the_scourge ... ?
assbot: Spending all your time figuring out what kind of “-ism” you and your friends believe in so that you can call each other “whatever-ists” is no way to improve the world. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cyeqwx )
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/17/spending-all-your-time-figuring-out-what-kind-of-ism-you-and-your-friends-believe-in-so-that-you-can-call-each-other-whatever-ists-is-no-way-to-improve-the-world/#comment-8560 << alrenous guy seems pretty cogent.
the_scourge: i agree with everyone's sentiment regarding hipsters trying to figure out what ism they are. as someone who's had to earn all his priviledge, i went to uni with such people but cannot relate to them much. however didn't we just tell mr BigBitz and partner that it doesn't matter how hard you work, if you're working on the wrong thing?
mircea_popescu: ah there we go, it's right, i forgot it indexes after a delay.
pete_dushenski: mike_c: ha ya i went for an mp-esque long one there
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski anyway, it's actually been in the logs.
pete_dushenski: the_scourge: mhm tis i
mircea_popescu: a while back they could also improve it by handing out at elbow of papa while papa worked
pete_dushenski: but from the perspective of reality-divorced idealists...
mircea_popescu: but it IS a perfectly valid if not the only available means for them to improve hteir world.
mircea_popescu: they are busy with much more suited tasks : picking a group and figuring the hierarchy.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski the proposition that kids should (or want to) "improve the world" is untenable.
assbot: Spending all your time figuring out what kind of “-ism” you and your friends believe in so that you can call each other “whatever-ists” is no way to improve the world. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1CydE2w )
pete_dushenski: heya the_scourge did you ever read http://www.contravex.com/2015/01/17/spending-all-your-time-figuring-out-what-kind-of-ism-you-and-your-friends-believe-in-so-that-you-can-call-each-other-whatever-ists-is-no-way-to-improve-the-world/ ?
mircea_popescu: and the something that's to be said is : hory shit that puts isis, china and everyone else in a bad light
punkman: the_scourge: well now it's "cool" to write about it
mircea_popescu: there's something to be said for a society so dumb, even the scams have to be dumbed down lower and lower each generation.
the_scourge: nick land, freenortherner, dalrock, sunshinemary, socialmatter.net darwinianreactionary.wordpress.com, anarchopapist, anomalyUK, cappy (captain capitalism) < all these have posts within the last week or less
mircea_popescu: nlp is like, "the law of attaction", before it was dumbed down for daytime tv.
mircea_popescu: actually it wouldn't surpriose me to find that's the process through which it was invented. all like nlp and shit, yarvin sat down and figured hey, this is going to positively attract the esl retards.
punkman: I'm sure there's a whole bunch of "writers" that saw "NRx" and thought "hey, Rx is the good stuff right"
punkman: but yarvin pretty much came up with the term "neoreactionary"
mircea_popescu: last time intel got the job to diagnose this (after princessnell brought it up) it turned out there's maybe a few dozen blogs, all dead.
the_scourge: there are hundreds of writers. probably thousands like myself who haven't got a public profile.
punkman: yarvin is the "nrx" thing. <- if not yarvin, who?
fluffypony: let me see if there's a snippet
the_scourge: well who didn't pay them
the_scourge: fluffypony: it is relevant. this is another sign that society will colapse and i and many others were TOTALLY misguided on many thing in the last days of the empire
assbot: The World’s Email Encryption Software Relies on One Guy, Who is Going Broke - ProPublica ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cybgc4 )
fluffypony: GPG guy: http://www.propublica.org/article/the-worlds-email-encryption-software-relies-on-one-guy-who-is-going-broke
the_scourge: uh, about my first yes, i should have said i understood where you're coming from, but i'm not sure you're observations are at all correct. on the second yes, you're very much wrong
mircea_popescu: the entire thing having no further substance past repackaging, obviously the coca cola company is the coca cola thing, and yarvin is the "nrx" thing.
mircea_popescu: ok. this much given, it can never be denied that the repackager of any one is, for all purposes, the 'leader'.
mircea_popescu: so i'm not too inclined to see any of these lables as anything more than "ignorant kids from the us web". be it "nrx" or "neoreaction" or etc.
mircea_popescu: so let's leave aside the "therefore" bitcoin this and that, as i dun have the energy. instead, re "nrx" : i have little doubt that there are some kids in the us that thought the one repackaging of stuff they ran across is somehow more significant than all the repackagings they don't know, and definitely more significant than the originals. and that they need a name and so on. this exercise in nominalism does not instit
the_scourge: but basically, post-libertarianism. therefore bitcoin is designed with the wrong assumptions about society. it's designed by progressives. every person in the world born after 1805 is a progressive, more or less
mircea_popescu: i dunno what most of these are.
the_scourge: and considering i'm a NRx'er, i'm pretty sure i'm for the former and against the latter
the_scourge: automated can mean 2 things: 1. reduce the roteness, man the hard things easy 2. skynet
mircea_popescu: however once that's automatic everything changes. which is why the wot can not be automated.
mircea_popescu: the difference from the wot is actually quite instructive. in the wot, one is at the liberty to consider history, but in no sense required to do so. in your model, one automatically is held to consider history. it's true that they both to some degree rely on the continuation fallacy,
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/im-not-sure-i-can-truly-convey-the-lulz/
the_scourge: WoT is proof that there is 'legitimate holder', n'est pas?
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as a "legitimate holder"
the_scourge: ppcoin is more of an agorist/WoT effort to get past that post. more activity, more coin-days, more legitimate: less chance of a grinding attack. until that point, you're hoping that the highly improbable does't happen. how is that different?
mircea_popescu: you're committing the shaman mistake. that is to say, the mistake to believe categories in your mind have objective substance.
the_scourge: i don't see very much difference between that and PoW blockchains which have vulnerabilities early on, and can't be truly invulnerable until legitimate mining is consuming 51% of the earth's electricity
the_scourge: 'cause the coin-days of legitimate holders will far exceed whatever a grinder could possibly come up with
the_scourge: at some point, the checkpoints in ppcoin won't be needed
mircea_popescu: (ie, their own trust)
mircea_popescu: and the local power rangers are trying to prop both by fiat.
mircea_popescu: in other words : in bitcoin checkpoints exist mostly because the protocol is strong, and the power rangers are trying to leech strength to prop their own shitty code.
fluffypony: or wherever the last checkpoint was
fluffypony: whereas with Bitcoin if you remove the checkpoints nobody has enough hashing power to be able to rewrite history back several thousand blocks
fluffypony: the_scourge: because with Bitcoin checkpoints are optional, and won't be needed eventually. with PeerCoin they will always be needed (for pure PoS).
the_scourge: erg sorry for multi line but this does not explain why peercoin's checkpoints won't work. we should call them something else if the word is causing a problem in discussing it
the_scourge: "Finally, it should be mentioned that developer-signed blocks are known in the PoS community as
BigBitz: I am authed with gribble :)
mircea_popescu: fluffypony srsly, got a link to the whitepaper's github ? guy's tree's gnarly.
mircea_popescu: the_scourge from experience, not even human translation by billingual hands do my prose justice.
mircea_popescu: it is more a function of people being removed from the means of production than anything. no living thing will ever accept its pointlessness. as such, cargo cults and mud pies everywhere.
the_scourge: well it's true. my dad was smart enough to say shit like 'it doesn't matter how hard your working if the thing you're working on is useless', and yet today the highest academics actually think that this universal gnon rule can be broken because they invented more complexity?
mircea_popescu: the_scourge myeah. http://trilema.com/2009/capitalism-si-naivitate/ << romanians have the same problem, if it helps anything.
fluffypony: lol the_scourge
the_scourge: i actually wish there was a marxist around to make it. at this very instant. < speaking of making things insanely complex
the_scourge: would this be a good time to talk about how the mud pie fallacy is VERY apropos :)
mircea_popescu: so now : take that website, give it away or whatever, go to read the logs for the next year or so.
mircea_popescu: Rippleflip tom swanson famously argued the same stuff, from perhaps a better position than you'll find yourself in.
gribble: No, you don't have something to say on the topic. pe Trilema - Un ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/no-you-dont-have-something-to-say-on-the-topic/>; The thorny problem of violence, or the miracle of the talking ass. pe ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/the-thorny-problem-of-violence-or-the-miracle-of-the-talking-ass/>; The witch hunt pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: (1 more message)
assbot: Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user DaleC: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/thestringpuller/DaleC | http://w.b-a.link/user/DaleC
mircea_popescu: fluffypony got a link to the actual github in question ?
Rippleflip_: #bitcoin-otc laughed at the pricing of 1,250. is it really too much?
Rippleflip_: so i do not see it essential to being in the WoT
Rippleflip_: mircea_popescu: we will of course use escrow with the buyer
mircea_popescu: the_scourge i would imagine so, and if not i'll soon find out.
mircea_popescu: or w/e chance at that you might have built over the 1.5 years in question.
mircea_popescu: Rippleflip_ you know, the only moral here is that spending 1.5 years outside of the wot essentially cost you 1250 btc
the_scourge: fuck another canadian expat. we are fucking awesome
gribble: The operation succeeded.
fluffypony: the_scourge: he doesn't have a newsletter
Rippleflip_: been operating with the same engine for over 1.5 years
fluffypony: the_scourge: yes
Rippleflip_: well, a bit over 20000 unique players, over 1,5 million usd wagered (possibly over 2 million with bitcoin value being higher in the past)
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: he's attached to the Monero Research Lab as one of the MRL Friends, so he's participated in some of the Schnorr signature multi-sig discussions we've had
Rippleflip_: the ledger.
Rippleflip_: PeterL: the info we give to you.
mircea_popescu: you know the guy ?
fluffypony: 6.4 is the section where he rips PoS a new one
Rippleflip_: PeterL: no. it's also worth nothing if we make it. potential buyer has to do the research. we can of course give you data
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you'll have to link a logline.
mircea_popescu: pretty much born out of their poverty years, each academic spent some time going "well if i think of it really complicatedly, i won't be so hungry anymore and those won't really be cockroaches"