trinque: sure, hail satan and pass the node
trinque: I've seen clojure/clojurescript, cl/parenscript, haskell/fey (and a few others)
asciilifeform: the_scourge: certainly.
trinque: what I'd like is a situation where I'm writing the same language in both a browser and on the server
asciilifeform: why does the socket have to be opened using $turdlang ?
asciilifeform: so it alone can't possibly justify the use of turdlangs.
asciilifeform: you know, the folks who walk in with a turd and explain to you that it's 'just the same' as a sausage, but 'more up with the times'
asciilifeform: if reading the comments, skip straight to http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-3383
asciilifeform: trinque: the former was, until recently (and possibly now) among the top 'google' hits for the subject.
the_scourge: other than 2 houses across the road, there are no neighbors for over 6 miles in all directions
the_scourge: same thing here. i love playing the piano as loud as possible :D
the_scourge: asciilifeform: Architecture of Symbolic Computers < this is the one?
the_scourge: asciilifeform: thanks. historically all i know about is really the AI lab stuff. i went through a phase where i read the jargon book and some more 'original' sources about the AI labs. but this was almost 20 years ago
the_scourge: so, something minimal i guess? scheme is used for embedded stuff i've seen. guile is interesting just 'cause the gnu nix clone uses it
the_scourge: that mark tarver article really resonated with me. that pretty much described me to a T.. and still does. it's actually why i ended up doing non-STEM degrees: there is no lack of boredom when you're lost in a library
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: depends on your objective
mircea_popescu: win-win as they say.
BingoBoingo: On day the phenomenon is in the logs getting discussed, the next it's the angle used to disect a fraud in the news.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's what inspired taking the piece this direction
mircea_popescu: dude i really like this qntra thing. about 1/3 of what i hated about the obsolete press were mistakes. being able to go hey x, Y! makes me all fucking warm and fuzzy inside.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: thus far, found nothing remotely approaching the bang/buck ratio of pogo
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yeah they run out of stock, not looking like they want to replenish it either.
kakobrekla: prolly nobody cares but i just checked for fun whats the pogo cost in europe; its 55 dorra.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, yes, it seems the alsa | pulseaudio difference was in fact bitterly preserved. one of those underground wars people like me tend to embarass themselves by not noticing.
asciilifeform: not entirely unconnected with the gpu vendors' behaviour.
mircea_popescu: people tried to get games going on the platform, 2007-8ish to about 2012. it failed.
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is a major point. the death of the linux is not exactly unrelated toi the major disappointment of the money makers.
mircea_popescu: but then pulseaudio swallowed it.
mircea_popescu: iirc there existed an alsa as a kernel module
asciilifeform: it actually has a closer resemblance to the perverse programming languages discussed earlier in this thread, than to systemd
mircea_popescu: this is even skipping the "ambitious nobody proponent with a history of failure up to that point"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform indulge me : tries to take over everything ? check. crashes all the time ? check. two matches, good enough.
asciilifeform: had a perverse functional-programming master's thesis disguised as an open source project, yes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what was the curtis yarvin brand of systemd called ? i forget ?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: we are discussing an embedded system with 128m each of ram and eeprom.
asciilifeform: at any rate, it pretty much has to be a 'buildroot' script in the end. so as everything ends up in a ro-mountable flash image.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: if you're implying it's not lightweight, only systemd and the kernel are installed off the bat. and some guys have done work on a systemdless setup
mircea_popescu: it's only to make use of the "much faster boot"
asciilifeform: the_scourge: trololol!
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'NixOS 14.12 Caterpillar has been released, the third stable release branch. It brings Linux 3.14, systemd 217, Glibc 2.20, KDE 4.14.1, and much more.'
asciilifeform: the_scourge: christian quinniec's book?
asciilifeform: 'buildroot' is the ticket
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: this gives you a rather heavyweight linux - with systemd, even.
asciilifeform: writing a (demented but functional) c compiler and (very old-fashioned, to the point of braindamage) lisp interp. used to be standard homework assignments
asciilifeform: the tell-tale symptom of a programming language that does far too much behind the scenes is when its users seldom, if ever, study the implementation
the_scourge: i'll have to look at the haskell implementation
asciilifeform: don't take my word for this, look at how they are implemented
assbot: Shen (programming language) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnWkfM )
the_scourge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shen_(programming_language) < "an integrated fully functional Prolog" hrm you're right about the latter
asciilifeform not a fan of 'pattern matching' languages a la prolog where the operator has no possible way of having the faintest clue what an operation will cost
asciilifeform: did not find it interesting enough to bother with a writeup.
asciilifeform: may still be there.
the_scourge: anywhere i can go to get some honest opinions on his work then?
the_scourge: the team working for me has maybe a dozen and then a massive team in manila that another contractor manages. it's ... depressing
the_scourge: there are hundreds
the_scourge: the one that got ddos'd
the_scourge: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=69 < this summarizes nicely every smoke break rant i had at the junior devs onsite today
mircea_popescu: just talk around the math involved, hire the people out of work once gavin gets forgotten about.
the_scourge: thats and acceptable threat model considering there are HUMANS involved that can fuck up and give away the keys to te kingdom
mircea_popescu: i wonder if one could kickstart an experimental vehicle for space vacuum filtration to extract gold and other rare metals.
the_scourge: um if we had no way to secure comms on the wild internet, where layers 1-4 can be listened to by demotists (i wouldn't mind if it was a monarch),
the_scourge: >wireless cards could in principle be used for forming local meshes, etc. but this is for other folks to study < as long as cryptography is secure, then it's not urgent. but very interesting
the_scourge: asciilifeform: that vocore was just crowdfunded recently. i think they fullfilled initial orders sometime in the past year. i didn't know they were mips!!
mircea_popescu: writing a proper wifi thing for the new world is not on this year's plate.
asciilifeform: wireless cards could in principle be used for forming local meshes, etc. but this is for other folks to study
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform not thrilled with the wireless thing, but it seems to be inescapable in small embedded crapatrons << There's probably a role somewhere for a kind of node with it. Plugged in at "Free Wifi" coffee shop or library. connects to open network, changes MAC address when booted from network. Has script to handled shrink wrap license pages when encountered.
mircea_popescu: short all the things!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what happens if you short the antenna of a wifi device ?
asciilifeform not thrilled with the wireless thing, but it seems to be inescapable in small embedded crapatrons
mircea_popescu: or is it the result of phone interception -> police telling school to ask kid -> kid not denying convincingly
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so is the "fake kidnapped kid" story the result of "boy telling school what happened"
mircea_popescu: oh i had some of them on display
asciilifeform was buying lightbulbs not long ago, and did a double-take when saw a line of specifically 'retro' bulbs, claiming to be 'precisely like those of edison's time' - and at least were genuine in costing 10x what one normally expects, and putting out 1/5th the light
mircea_popescu: but then again, bringing arguments to people who never had any sort of life experience is not unlike trying to give serpents haircuts.
trinque: mircea_popescu: right, I was saying the "visa is so speed" argument is bullshit
mircea_popescu: days, sure, in the sense bitcoin txn confirm "in seconds"
mircea_popescu: trinque: asciilifeform: the merchant gets their money in days in the US << noob. it's date+60.
asciilifeform: incidentally, this phrase has been resurrected and now fondly refers to the (increasingly rare) traditional incandescent bulb
cazalla: mircea_popescu, it's old as in there was a photo of the psu dump out last year and it was filmed last year but new as in full clip released today
mircea_popescu: i once saw a flashlight based on this principle. a real bitch to charge << I once took a design class where this was a case study of "innovation" and "green" << as it should be. if i recall correctly the russian name is "labour & light"
cazalla: asciilifeform, prob the real owner and it's a staff member being interviewed instead
assbot: Logged on 15-10-2014 17:38:27; assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 16:11:44; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re: 'coinbase insurance' post - little story. recently i had occasion to rent a box at a bank (storage of various paperwork for firm.) the contract was a hilarious read. bank only insures a box for up to 25k usd. and specifically excludes damage from robbery, fire, water... virtually anything.
asciilifeform: (for non-u.s. folks: for many years, the guards have been running names through 'wanted' lists when you walk in or out of usa)
mircea_popescu: and the noose ever narrows.
assbot: » Economist: New Bill Turns TSA Into Tax Police Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind! ... ( http://bit.ly/1DOlrGA )
assbot: Welcome to the future: Philips HUE iOS app crashes and they pulled the app. I can't control my lights anymore. Send help.
asciilifeform: and, lol! why 'secret chinese bitcoin mine'? what is the secret ?
asciilifeform: cazalla: interestingly, two faces at the ~6'26'' mark are censored out
asciilifeform: luck is the main bottleneck
asciilifeform: the phoundation backport crap needs to go
asciilifeform: what is really needed is the experiment suggested by mircea_popescu (or was it davout?) where difficulty-outlier blocks are shot on sight
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: of course it will crash. esp. if you built it with max=750 (as in the patch) but with 250 likewise
assbot: Trust relationship from user danielpbarron to user the_scourge: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. | http://w.b-a.link/trust/danielpbarron/the_scourge | http://w.b-a.link/user/the_scourge
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: where did you get the idea for mpoe?
the_scourge: what's the cheapest device that has usb 3.0? one can get super cheap USB keys on amazon, that would solve the problem
the_scourge: asciilifeform: i take it the reference is to the 'hopelessly out of order' meaning, not the traditional definition?
mod6: ah, my mistake. ascii numbered the "Orphanage Burner" as v0.5.3.2
mod6: it's the portotronic version v0.5.3.2 right?
PeterL: My wife's bike was once stolen out of our garage ... whoever took it left their bike sitting in our yard. It was the weirdest thing.
trinque: punkman: lol wow the future of p2p payments
trinque: even seven figure processing accounts I've seen take days to hit a bank account, or at least the next day
asciilifeform: reversals get taken straight from the merchant's account.
trinque: +asciilifeform | the folks who count (tm) get it immediately << dunno that this is so, isn't "settlement" a thing to allow for reversals, etc?
asciilifeform: punkman: flashlight... was a case study of "innovation" and "green" << the meat puppets responsible should be condemned to spend the rest of their days in oubliette, with only nyt to read, lit only by that flashlight.
asciilifeform: hence, from their pov - no delay.
asciilifeform: the folks who count (tm) get it immediately
asciilifeform: trinque: or were you thinking of the lag from purchase to bank statement ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: engine where the piston was really just a magnet-bearing shuttle zipping back and forth through coils << i once saw a flashlight based on this principle. a real bitch to charge - much time and sore muscle spent in changing direction. but this would work beautifully for a liquid-piston stirling engine (see last night's thread).
asciilifeform: http://www.qltcls.com/products/corded-phones << mindfuck. they still take new customers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phun phact: there are still a few hundred thousand idiots renting landline handsets in usa from lucent (who inherited that subdivision)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: Modems waren damals in Deutschland noch verboten, mit Ausnahme der teuren Mietgeräte der Bundespost << this was SOP in the national telco monopolies of that period; most famously, in usa, where all line equipment, incl. handsets, was considered property of bell co.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 2) client companies of the state wish to be important. the market tells them to stuff it 3) government steps in... <<< see also the famous example of syntex corp. in mexico (carl djerassi!) - first mass-production of synthetic progestins, then nationalized, then gone - 'bad luck!'
mod6: thanks for the updates danielpbarron
mircea_popescu: lmao. no, you dumb fucking schmuck. he didn't mean what unrelated term you wish he had meant. he meant what he said : the ridiculous notion that random people may speak on random questions.
mircea_popescu: "[Note: It is interesting to notice that Mr Kennedy, USA Ambassador in London, remarked on his return to New York in October 1940 that as a result of the war "democracy is finished". By "democracy", of course, he meant private capitalism. (Author's footnote.)]"
mircea_popescu: either way, the only thing a functioning market can expect is attack, either by government agencies masquerading as companies, or else by government agencies actually admitting their government affiliation.
mircea_popescu: exactly in the manner 40 euros are "just as good" as 48 DM
mircea_popescu: net result ? a frail, broken, centralized item to take place of the vibrant original and slowly decay. it's "just as good',
mircea_popescu: 3) government steps in, sweeps the whole thing under itself, since 2 failed.
mircea_popescu: 2) client companies of the state wish to be important. the market tells them to stuff it
mircea_popescu: it's really funny how the politics of this worked out : 1) buncha companies, unregulated market, bring the thing into existence.
chetty: and you had to rent the state company ones// coming soon to us, internet public utility will make it so
mircea_popescu: that's right, i come from a country where you USED to have to be cool to be able to fuck most of the starlets on tv (prhaps with the show playing in the background, if so inclined). nowadays any schmuck with a coupla bitcoin can do it.
mircea_popescu: and in even other-er news, http://www.romania-insider.com/romanian-models-detained-in-prostitution-case/141548/
mircea_popescu: more like 400, but then you'd have to explain 1k% inflation in 30 years,
mircea_popescu: obviously nothing's wrong with the people, but plenty's wrong wit hthe "present values" equation, seeing how in 1985 ie 30 years ago it made perfect sense to spend a week and cut out pipes and whatnot to save "the equivalent of 40 euros".
mircea_popescu: well fuck me sally, if they truly cost 40 euros at today's values then what the fuck's the problem, that's what internet costs today. what is wrong with these people ?
mircea_popescu: and now, the meat and potatoes : ". Modems waren damals in Deutschland noch verboten, mit Ausnahme der teuren Mietgeräte der Bundespost. Anfang 1987 betrug die monatliche Gebühr für ein BTX-MultiTel 1 48 DM (nach heutiger Kaufkraft 40 ) und für ein MultiTel 2 78 DM (nach heutiger Kaufkraft 66 )"
mircea_popescu: expensive enough to get people to where they'd root for copies of teh hacker bible, and then build a modem out of repurposed materials by hand.
mircea_popescu: so this article discusses the famous ccc modem. at the time, germans being insane as today, it was illegal to own a modem, and you had to rent the state company ones, which were incredibly expensive.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, in terms of the bezzel world, this is an excellent entry : http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datenklo
mircea_popescu: truly atrocious sort of incomprehensible and unexplainable "you have to be there" sort of bad.
mircea_popescu: because in any line there exists this company, which is extremely bad, almost as if it's self-parodic level bad.
mircea_popescu: come to think about it : http://girls.twistys.com/preview/totm/12-2014/p01/p/13.jpg << there's a whoile brand of this sort of idiot in ther wild.
mircea_popescu: ever since the flaming idiots of get a freelancer bought it, it's seriously improved
mircea_popescu: in other news, "Warrior Forum8:03 am 54 KiBHow to reach the REALLY rich? - Warrior Forum"
mircea_popescu: fluffypony in case it wasn't somehow apparent, "someone" doth not mean you. it doth mean the still unidentified publicly person in charge of handling teh bitcoin problem.
mircea_popescu: i mean, if you remember this schmuck, he's the "mr bigg" shill mpoe-pr unmasked on the forum.
mircea_popescu: " The most exciting battle in this long war is taking place in San Francisco, and the town isnt big enough for both Ripple Labs and Stellar, two of the contenders hoping to replace not just Bitcoin but the almighty dollar."
mircea_popescu: someone who was stupid enough to ignore the warnings, for that matter. o, it's not his fault, "nobody could have foreseen".
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/ << check it out asciilifeform someone's butthurt over gavin getting shot in the head.
mircea_popescu: but yes, the snapchat comparison is QUITE shameful.
mircea_popescu: at least we know where we're standing : what we got scares them. we'll fork it later on an' be quite happy.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: >Stripe and Facebook are going to sponsor @gnupg development with $50k/year each. << the only important point in the ruckus being, now we know gpg 1.x is perfectly fine and 2.x not entirely broken, and that there's absolutely no need to expect usable 3.x
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk: [...] < I wish the banks around here knew what GPG/PGP was. << it's because i don't use actual banks, but the well developed argentine underground system.
mircea_popescu: punkman: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/CCCamp_2007_Datenklo.jpg << so basically, the only reason these adolescent boys have gathered there is to have a good pretext for not washing.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
fluffypony: "Mr. McCaleb also happened to be one of the world’s foremost cryptographers, arguably in a class with Alan Turing, the father of artificial intelligence and modern computing."
mod6: fluffypony: ahh, yet another "genius" thinks he's going to replace bitcoin. *snore*
assbot: Internet lobs $$$s at dev of crucial GPG tool after he runs short of cash • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1zf7ZHn )
punkman: "There’s an increasing number of farmers placing greater value on acquiring older simpler machines that don’t require a computer to fix."
phillipsjk: mircea_popescu: well, you may not believe this or like this, but... my banking depends on my gpg signature o.O < I wish the banks around here knew what GPG/PGP was. The card-holder agreements universally say: "You acknowledge that e-mail is not secure..."
punkman: http://litbimg.rightinthebox.com/desc_image/201407/gkdecb1405397886162.jpg that's a pretty small phone
BingoBoingo: While also bending his "code art" into ways nothing on the web should be bent
gribble: The operation succeeded.
phillipsjk: 6:35: "..For example..Mt.Gox.. I have a bad feeling about them"
phillipsjk: Apparently Bruce is mentioned in the thread I linked: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FZldY-ZBBE
phillipsjk: "Tom Williams" paid people half their Bitcoin and disappeared. Mybitocin.com had a private registration is some tropical island country.
mircea_popescu: i wish i could remember the idiot's name, he was a reddit star for a season or two.
mircea_popescu: and then it went away
mircea_popescu: that then "was hacked", but it's ok, because everyone's balance was just going to be frozen and "repaid over time"
mircea_popescu: the last episode of that thing figures prominently some hot shot kid that made a totally innovative super-great exchange
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic you're right, the name's bruce.
midnightmagic: that the one possibly traced to hackcanada.com?
phillipsjk: "From the desk of Tom Williams, operator of MyBitcoin.com"
mircea_popescu: he massively pumped, and then claimed to have been victimized, by tha thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember the burt wagner, pedophile / gay prostitute / showman with the camera in demo mode ?
mircea_popescu: is this the first tihng that pulled a runner ?
phillipsjk: much derp, to use the local parlance
phillipsjk: "Consider the alternative of mybitcoin.com. It is a client portable to any web browser. You could keep the account/password in your head instead of on a stick. If you want to transact with another mybitcoin account the transaction is immediate too."
phillipsjk: I mentioned in PM that I assume the year 2010 refers to "mybitcoin" (found mention of it in a forum post Aug 17, 2010)
mircea_popescu: as i point out in some romanian article, denim bras had i managed to import would have been gladly worn by those women half the current .ro calls mom.
asciilifeform: not sure if he had the jeans (iirc, he went under the auspices of some medical society or other)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, i think one could scarcely have better political education than a tour of the warsaw pact in the late 80s.
mircea_popescu: here you will have them forced upon you.
phillipsjk: I think that is the most subtle "Godwin" I have even seen. (had to look it up)
asciilifeform: d. went to ro immediately before the magic xmas.
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk i am not seriously lowering the discourse to gavin's insanities. a matter of principle is being discussed there, not the irrelevant gargle of whatever derp.
phillipsjk: So you are implicitly expecting the block-size will be much larger than 20MB sooner than we expect as well.
mircea_popescu: this is mostly important because considering on one hand the uninformed low level arithmeticizing of reality prevalent in the esl world, and on the other the utter insanities passed for "graphs" on the forum, but also generally in the world - say that abject "cross model", people really need a little example of PROPER use of numbers.
asciilifeform: 'the wilder shores of marx'
mircea_popescu: the point is simply : "not so very long".
mircea_popescu: phillipsjk the deleted 2020 is more of a playful rethorical device
mircea_popescu: (it did not exist prior to about then)
mircea_popescu: this was my own experience, both under the communists and after, and it was recorded in 1800 by travellers
phillipsjk: since the 1.25 factor represents the fist period: 3.23 years, the first number in the exponent must represent something like (n -3) years.. But 2009+6+3=2018.
mircea_popescu: bucharest is and always was such a hellhole the likes of which no one has ever seen.