asciilifeform: most folks with any kind of brain at all, just ignored the slogans when off the clock
asciilifeform: the total intellectual load placed on chumps was considerably lighter
mircea_popescu: they were stuck to formulaics instead.
asciilifeform: (the soviets also didn't have microshit 'word', which helps illiterates to play-pretend by turning them into a kind of cyborg meat-assisted shannonizer)
asciilifeform: they didn't have cut&paste
mircea_popescu: "USG - Army Of One, And They're All Retarded"
mircea_popescu: reminds me of the damned soviets.
mircea_popescu: tbh, i don't know there exists material more intellectually objectionable than the shit pouring out of the usg.
asciilifeform: if somebody wants to dig up the warning from 1920s (mentioned briefly in the modern usg one) would be interesting to read.
mircea_popescu: it's you know... kinda important. seeing how they didn't title it "a particularly braindamaged misimplementation of ozone air purifying"
mircea_popescu: yes well, the epa idiocy was not finding the room, among very usefully distinctive verbiage like "Healthy people, as well as those with respiratory difficulty, can experience breathing problems when exposed to ozone.", to specify this
mircea_popescu: not to pump ozone into the atmosphere.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the idea is to treat air with ozone in an ozone trap.
asciilifeform: the linked crap has the basic idea, ozone works as well on the meat as on whatever you're fumigating against
mircea_popescu: the smelly parts are particularly susceptible, incidentally. both aromatics and sulphide types.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ordinary. makes them shorter.
mircea_popescu: i am certainly not taking any advice from these morons.
mircea_popescu: obviously, the reference is broken, because "We recently updated AIRNow.gov". and apparently they think this is how you say "we've recently brokenb airnow.gov"
mircea_popescu: "The same chemical properties that allow high concentrations of ozone to react with organic material outside the body give it the ability to react with similar organic material that makes up the body, and potentially cause harmful health consequences. When inhaled, ozone can damage the lungs (see - "Ozone and Your Health")."
mircea_popescu: dumbass epa. from the link :
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 20:32:25; jurov: ^ as per above, it does not affect organic molecules. just numbs the smell cells, I guess.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043133 << wut ?! ozone is pretty much the number 1 reducer of organic matter.
mircea_popescu: and it'll make it fucking impossible fgor all the retarded "Women in internet" to make a living at their usual scams, marketing, pr, whatever.
asciilifeform: if you aren't a sapper - find another hobby
mircea_popescu: will make "get big fast" fucking impossible to get revenue on, because all the customers you want are not going by marketing.
asciilifeform: it's rather like those kids in ru who make a hobby of collecting mementoes from old battlefields
mircea_popescu: sure. but as a matter of principle, the naive 1990s hippy "here's a thing i found, i am using it now" thing jumped the shark.
asciilifeform: as americans used to say 'good indians are in the cemetary'
asciilifeform: there are also impotent, and also dead ones
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as "not evil" us corps.
mircea_popescu: they have shat the stick, so to speak. no further usage of anything unless it's in the wot.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 19:46:13; kakobrekla: heres a few of the more interesting pwm ones; http://shrani.si/f/3M/2d/4N2Jzpz2/profiles.png
adlai: i guess everything's clonable, so that's the wrong analogy to make; physical unclonable items would be used for authentication ('thing is as i remember it'), shared secrets are used for secure communication
asciilifeform: even if they'd much like to
pete_dushenski: adlai the cool thing about everything nonphysical is... its nonphysicality ;)
asciilifeform: what's the unclonable part ?
adlai: the cool thing about nonphysical crypto is that you can generate unclonable objects together with a physically separated party
asciilifeform: modern cryptowankers' parlance calls these 'physically unclonable function'
mircea_popescu: they'd make a bead and crush it.
mircea_popescu: this, iirc, was the first use of glass
asciilifeform: authenticator, used even in ww2
asciilifeform: incidentally, i love a good analogue 'stone-age' cryptomechanism. and not only for enciphering. consider the broken cup.
mircea_popescu: if you have a 5km pad with 1 letter per 1.1 cm on average, from 1 to 2, then no.
mircea_popescu: only if you assume the pad is short and fixed length
asciilifeform: as adlai pointed out, there is ample info bounding the possible plaintexts available in the ciphertext
mircea_popescu: yes, but the problem becomes similar to "crack this otp"
mircea_popescu: all the ones i've seen were asymmetrical.
mircea_popescu: ever seen the item itself ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what i mean is, that you need the volume to be defined by the same angle all around the center. ie, you need a baton that can be turned. whereas in practice they'd use unturned batons.
jurov: in 2009 there was only epsilon
asciilifeform: jurov: which is why the gedankenexperiment was specifically about epsilon
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if can vary taper between min and max of what opponent could have used - then yes
jurov: the boundary is now carnot cycle but complete pwnage
jurov: if the "perfect bot" ends up with less then complete monopoly, then it's non-prefect by definition
mircea_popescu: (the thing you folks call stadium in english an' stadion in french :) )
mircea_popescu: there's ~185 meters in a stadion
asciilifeform: adlai: the information isn't just hard to attain, it doesn't exist << the bot is not for use! it's a theoretical construction, like carnot cycle
adlai: the scytale cipher is equivalent to drawing a long table with six rows (adding columns as needed), and writing out the message to fill the column; then all the letters are jumbled. but the letters remain unchanged
adlai: pete_dushenski: let's say scytale diameter is em/2π, ie the message has six 'rows', and each sextet of letters on the wrapped paper corresponds to a column
assbot: The fashionability of being uncompetitive. Because Reasons. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1aOrOB6 )
pete_dushenski: also, who needs scoopbot when I'm here anyways : http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/05/the-fashionability-of-being-uncompetitive-because-reasons/
pete_dushenski: adlai being ignorant of the difference between rearranging packets and jumbling, can you expand ?
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 16:51:02; ben_vulpes: http://www.jwz.org/blog/2015/03/google-seems-to-have-broken-email-forwarding/ << moar on google breaking the internet
pete_dushenski: " the scytale, consisted of a tapered baton around which was spirally wrapped a piece of parchment inscribed with the message. When unwrapped the parchment bore an incomprehensible set of letters, but when wrapped around another baton of identical proportions, the original text reappeared. "
adlai: pete_dushenski: could be. scytales just rearrange the 'packets' of a message, whereas modern crypto jumbles the data within
cazalla: the other leftie type being.. amir/hippy types living in a hovel engaging in drug fuelled orgies?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, aren't the us lefties the type of lefties behind bitcoin wimminz day anyway
mircea_popescu: the weirdo abominable us "lefties", which are really a sort of recycled aunt pollies, yes.
cazalla: of course, i'm working on the assumption these are lefties who would be grossly offended at such an idea but you never know..
cazalla: got another retweet for the bits for tits trilema post.. this time by a bitcoin magazine for women.. ah ha, they don't even read, just retweet
pete_dushenski: "The aeolipile was a hollow sphere mounted so that it could turn on a pair of hollow tubes that provided steam to the sphere from a cauldron. The steam escaped from the sphere from one or more bent tubes projecting from its equator, causing the sphere to revolve. The aeolipile is the first known device to transform steam into rotary motion."
pete_dushenski: they had philosophers, but that's a different thing
pete_dushenski: and the romans were empire builders, not philosophers
pete_dushenski: atomic theory i knew, but steam engine ?!
mircea_popescu: greeks, way ahead of romans and their spawn ONCE AGAIN
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu aha you're quite right about the scytales. a variable diameter stick is really a fascinating way of graphing cryptographic curves.
mircea_popescu: the sooner they lose all hope the sooner their children can begin tearing up redditardamerica and building a livable space north of rio grande.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 12:47:00; punkman: flooding a nice forest probably not the best idea, but their argument rests on lousewort?!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1042955 << their argument rests on some random schmuck who went in the field to "Study" it, introduced some seeds, claimed to have discovered the resulting plants and woe and behold, a redditard mattered!
BingoBoingo: Oh, is Harrison Ford kicking the bucket soon?
adlai: gathering and interpreting actual information is a totally different story, and there's a huge amount of information that most/all human traders totally *ignore*, and that's as mike_c said - past order book movements
adlai: more personally, if perfect information exists, scalpl is truly a wild goose chase; i'm betting my time on perfect information not existing, and there being room for patience to profit off information fuzzyness
adlai: "market will go up" is different from "joe impulse trader will press the button once he sees N flashing numbers", and 'perfect information' requires the latter, which is for all practical purposes, random
adlai: the information isn't just hard to attain, it doesn't exist
asciilifeform: sorta like the 'x % kills' (what fraction of the monsters you dealt with) shown at the end of a 'doom' level
asciilifeform: against which to measure the actuality.
asciilifeform: it tells you (or would, if could be written, but the most you can hope for is an approximation, as the problem - even with all the necessary data - is np-complete) the theoretical maximum that could have been achieved
adlai: there's a lot of interesting knowledge in the distribution of expected liquidity events given all other data on the market, but it's far from 'perfect', because it gives you, at best, a precisely calculated distribution of 'past performance'
adlai: the 'perfect knowledge' bot - are you using the word 'perfect' to suggest that it knows what _will_ happen?
asciilifeform: it's simply an elementary fact that you can't +ev your way 'from rags to riches' unless you know something other folks don't
adlai: nope, but it's a problem that individuals can tackle for themselves
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 21:02:54; mike_c: seems there ought to be some reasonable blockchain evidence one way or the other. don't we know the ulbricht address in question?
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-03-2015#1043164 << coins have moved on the blockchain, although it's trivial to fake this - if you control the coins.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2015 22:10:23; asciilifeform: incidentally, anyone ever try the exercise of writing a 'pefect knowledge' bot that tells you 'what could have been' ?
asciilifeform: adlai: see earlier discussion about what 'carnot efficiency', if you'll allow the analogy, is for scalpl (or any similar machine)
adlai: specifically, scalpl's purpose is to produce the fastest possible escape rocket for a given (parametrizable) risk tolerance; once that technology is in place, it's just a matter of finding a market for which the maximum speed at your risk tolerance exceeds escape velocity
adlai notes to self to offer asciilifeform a seat on the escape rocket, should the clue ever be proven
jurov: they could be using my gizmo only if it worked as boiler room
asciilifeform: jurov: would you say that the 'thousands of chumps' are using your gizmo instead ?
jurov: having thousands of chumps pounding on on mpex accounts is just unthinkable, hence the fees.
asciilifeform: i just cannot know what they are.
asciilifeform: the folks subscribing - presumably have reasons
asciilifeform: no issue, just the fact that i personally don't have any jobs for which coinbr is the right tool
jurov: can you pls explain the issue?
asciilifeform: takes away what little point there is, no?
asciilifeform: jurov: nope. i'm not the least bit interested in low-frequency trading
jurov: nad you'd be fine with 90day delay to access them, too?
asciilifeform: gravity works this way, and so do other things.
asciilifeform: 'The Third Rock From The Sun can hold an atmosphere and your piece of cosmic flotsam cant.' (from my article)
asciilifeform: there we go.
asciilifeform: calculate, how much coin would i need to have on hand for it to be worth the effort in getting a coinbr account and making the gears go correctly
asciilifeform: (unlike 'redditicus' the impossibility doesn't irritate me in the slightest, i have other things in life to play with)
jurov: and they want to have" perfect bots"
asciilifeform: (unless someone noticed that he's a god, and gave him a bag of coin for lulz. but that's outside the rules of the gedankenexperiment!)
mike_c: jurov: just a poke at the frequency of dividend mistakes on that asset :)
jurov: so, nobody even reads the fkn reports
jurov: mike_c: have you read the last report?
asciilifeform can already picture how - if the 0.01 were enough to 'move between equivalence classes' in the orderbook
mike_c: ok, but that's what i'm saying. the god needs non-public info
asciilifeform: understand, interested here in 'theoretical best' of what a smart person with almost no funding could achieve
mike_c: bid climbs up, then down, then sale happens. if you had sold at higher bid you would have done better than 'perfect info' bot
mike_c: infinitesimal, no. but then you're 'perfect knowledge' bot isn't going to make so much anyway
mike_c: well, I not only have a clue, i have the order book history :)
mike_c: depends on liquidity.. maybe for mpoe. even there, not really
asciilifeform: folks with a clue - comment, would the result have any useful connection with reality ?
mike_c: like what the order book looked like across time
asciilifeform: as in, the maximum one could have hoped to earn on coinbr in a particular time interval starting with x btc
asciilifeform: incidentally, anyone ever try the exercise of writing a 'pefect knowledge' bot that tells you 'what could have been' ?
asciilifeform: for folks who can reliably turn x into 2x - they already have mpex accounts, aren't reading this
asciilifeform: mike_c: for folks who like to gamble - straight to the dice games
mike_c: if you have 3 btc, and you just doubled it to 6 in the recent qntra surge, you probably are quite happy with yourself.
mike_c: there's nothing wrong with taking a few btc and playing around on coinbr as a way to learn more about btc finance world.
asciilifeform is at this moment actively unenjoying the ada
asciilifeform: hard to argue with that. there are 'some people' who enjoy just about anything.
asciilifeform: (i, for instance, wasn't interested at all until invited to write a review, using free demo. which i did. and in the course of said demo, realized that i've not particularly much to -do- with such a thing, on account of having approximately no coin)
mike_c: people call charles schwab, not NYSE, when they have a problem.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: if homo redditicus were only a problem because 'spamming the orderbook', that would be another thing. a bot could theoretically 'vacuum up the chump money' and that's that. But - they, as i understand, spam support lines, public fora, and overall poison the atmosphere in ways not outweighed by the pennies they bring in
jurov: thestringpuller that's exactly what i do have in mind
felipelalli: jurov: the point is that I don't want to "trade online", I don't have time for that. I just want to buy MPEx or QNTRA for example and let there, sleeping.
felipelalli: danielpbarron: it isn't $ 10, it was just an exaggeration. I guess I have more than $ 100 there.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Or simply selling access to his proxy for a fixed price option. Maybe in the range of 5-20% of what the mpex account costs, so still an intege BTC price in this hypothetical.
jurov: don't worry, when i finally implement these loans, i'll start nagging
BingoBoingo doesn't see why jurov shouldn't get paid for "fire and forget" Could be a one time fee much larger than the monthly fee.
jurov: who haven't asked me otherwise
jurov: anyway i plan the possiblity to loan everything to coinbr, with dividend payments directly to your address
asciilifeform doesn't have broker either
jurov: it's what you do with fiat assets? to ask broker to manage $10 woth of them?
asciilifeform: it means that the machine isn't fire&forget
asciilifeform: jurov: they sure are for me, for example
thestringpuller: ^- the years it would take to pay off mpex account
jurov: are these bitcents really such a problem?
asciilifeform: felipelalli: Is it possible to remove an account and keep the assets << if you bought an mpex account...
felipelalli: Thank you jurov! :) So, the only way to "pause" the fees when our account is kind of inactive is selling all assets and removing the account? Is it possible to remove an account and keep the assets?
jurov: felipelalli: About coinbr.com, what happens if my account stay negative "forever"? << eventually coinbr will ask you to cover the unpaid fees, otherwise some assets get liquidated in, say, 12 months
thestringpuller: the book of alf
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: for an american gasenwagen, it is theoretically enough that you moved $int from your bank account to a known btc exchange at some point
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: what is a clean coin? i thought there is no taint in bitcoin << but there is in fiat.
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: aren't there 3.6k coins found every day that need to find a new home or else a miner can't pay his electricity bill << ^ quite a bill
asciilifeform: and one or more quietly produced a great many units which do not publicly exist except for their hash
mike_c: like KNC is underreporting their sales?
asciilifeform: alternatively, the output figures are bullshit
asciilifeform: other than this.
mike_c: "nothing whatsoever". If hash power goes up by an order of magnitude more than the output of the minig rig manufacturers, something is known.
asciilifeform: afaik nothing whatsoever is publicly known about the 'big miners' other than approximate hash output.
mike_c: as has been more or less proven in here before, the big miners aren't buying KNC/bitmain/whoever rigs.
asciilifeform: ^ that was my theory (though quite likely it's a formula obvious to many folks)
asciilifeform: yes, it's rather obvious, but interested in mechanics
mike_c: then the absence of that demand would suppress the price. whether this leads to flat, falling, or only "not rising as much" price
mike_c: the price drops as supply exceeds demand (in a macro sense). if you believe that draper, silbert, etc. represented demand, and that the demand would have eventually made its way to the exchanges even if not directly
asciilifeform: only siphons off demand unless, e.g., draper, was actually going to buy at public exchanges and then didn't
mike_c: the auctions are siphoning off demand that could otherwise show up on some exchange. and while the exchanges don't move in perfect tandem, they do move close unless something is wrong.
asciilifeform: if it doesn't happen there
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: given the FDIC-like insurance scheme enemy is planning, i would think it probably there is some ability to forcefully liquidate funds against trader's wills (at least smaller ones)
asciilifeform: mike_c: i still don't get why somebody buying a parcel of $maxint btc would affect the price on, e.g., 'btc-e'
mike_c: asciilifeform: the price suppression comes because when someone wants x thousand coins they have this avenue. where otherwise they would be harder/more expensive to obtain.
mike_c: price suppression doesn't mean they are selling fake coins, it would be the same if they were selling real coins.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: "Oh i received coins." with gun at head... << it isn't clear why this would lead to price drops at public exchanges, unless anticipatory sell-offs (which would be brief)
mike_c: seems there ought to be some reasonable blockchain evidence one way or the other. don't we know the ulbricht address in question?
thestringpuller: mike_c: price suppression is basis, but maybe there is more strategy to it?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: afaik the only source of this hypothesis is mircea_popescu, who presumably has a clue, but understandably won't reveal source of said clue
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, others: http://www.governmentattic.org/14docs/USNORTHCOM-CONPLAN3502.pdf << gasenwagen
asciilifeform: ding to the story getting told publicly).'
asciilifeform: f someone like Emwazi, whom MI5 had been chasing for years, can simply disappear, only to reappear as the man beheading western journalists (though technically, the videos never show him doing so), then it suggests the entire dragnet is least effective when it is most needed. The Express ill-defined sources appear to want to tell a story about SIGINT succeeded rather then explain how it is that SIGINT failed (at least accor
asciilifeform: 'British intelligence sources are now claiming that the SIGINT hunt for Emwazi preceded the HUMINT one, and also claiming that a SIGINT clue and the related SIGINT trail that clue uncovered provided the breakthrough in IDing him. Which is almost certainly bullshit. But notable bullshit, for two reasons. First, because the current story that the UK lost Emwazi poses really big problems for the dragnet. Because i
asciilifeform: ulbricht rather
jurov: ^ as per above, it does not affect organic molecules. just numbs the smell cells, I guess.
BingoBoingo: Well, not if you get to much. What harm can the occasional whiff of it do?
asciilifeform: whole point of electrostatic cleaner is to make dust stick to things (in a well-constructed one, the 'thing' is the filter inside)
asciilifeform: btw if the wall was black, it was working
asciilifeform has not tried the recipe, but invites anyone who has, to post.
asciilifeform: when configured as 'air cleaner' they tend to piss out ozone
kakobrekla: it made the wall around it all back.
kakobrekla: but not the one i use.
asciilifeform: the kind without moving parts
kakobrekla: but the working curve
kakobrekla: heres a few of the more interesting pwm ones; http://shrani.si/f/3M/2d/4N2Jzpz2/profiles.png
kakobrekla: most of them have min way above 200
asciilifeform: or rather, above
kakobrekla: thats not the problem
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: can always solder a controller inline with the cord
kakobrekla: but then second problem is running them slow enough - which only bq did as far as my tests went
kakobrekla: yeah these are great.
kakobrekla: i was testing for low rpm quietness where noise from bearings is the problem, noting else
asciilifeform: because otherwise you're comparing bulldog and rhinoceros
kakobrekla: i dont know from the top of my head which one bq uses but i bought 50 high end fans a year+ ago and tested them all
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: iirc, there's exactly one producer of fluid bearings, and everybody else gets them
asciilifeform: (tip: if anyone else has a 'liebert' ups, and replacing fan, don't throw out old one. you will need to snip&solder the connector.)
cazalla: and fuck, i wish it was summer, first week of autumn and the mornings are already cold and dark
cazalla: DigitalCurrency (@DCCCertified) favorited one of your Tweets! <<< bwahaha they don't even follow the links to see what it is, just fav away for tities lol
asciilifeform: put a 'pabst' fluid bearing 80mm in there. golden toilet, should last.
BingoBoingo: Sometimes other kinds blows as well.
asciilifeform: this was the useful kind.
BingoBoingo: Oh, I though maybe this was the sort of fan you replace for insufficient adoration
asciilifeform: (it's a 'double-conversion' monster that runs inverter 100% of the time)