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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the scope traces show a working rng, even.
coinking: cool, should be there. It's trickier to chat about it through IRC so you will see from my email my personal details.
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-genetics-of-intelligence/
mircea_popescu: that's the traditional socioeconomic use for fillies in human societies.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> because the morons think they can magic their own spew away when it turns embarrassing. << b-a logs will become the most interesting resource in not many years.
mats: another fun fact: you can physically damage XP installations via ACPI parsing and NtSystemDebugControl, entirely in usermode
asciilifeform searches #b-a log for the discussion of this, for some reason cannot find
asciilifeform: mats: on top of that is the mega-lol where winblows uac is the only usg-blessed 'security boundary' mechanism...
kakobrekla: anyway, get in the wot why dont you
mats: fun fact: the UIPI clipboard format whitelist is permissive enough to allow for exploitation of particular programs on 7 and 8.
asciilifeform: zeroing a file anywhere you don't have direct access to the blocks may leave the contents on the disk
mats: fun fact: zeroing a file in windows may actually leave the contents on the disk intact.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user kakobrekla to user coinking: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=kakobrekla&dest=coinking | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=coinking | Rated since: never
coinking: I have a lot of good contact within crypto and have current and past clients as references. It's about perspective, the leads I bring as crypto enthusiasts yet building your social pages is never a bad move. It just depends on how much you think it's worth. It think long term it is something important in a business and has a direct impact on the bu
kakobrekla: well here is the thing, i am not paying a flat fee to someone to derp around on btc-poor social sites to gather 'likes', 'digs', 'twits' and 'impressions' which do not bring in bettors. but if you actually can bring in people with btc, use affiliate program to collect your reward.
mike_c: coinking: they have an affiliate program if you want to do promotion.
coinking: there's always room for improvements :)
danielpbarron: there are two; one tweets new bets and the other tweets individual bids on them
danielpbarron: the thing tweets daily if not hourly
coinking: or any other social sites
coinking: yeah, looking to offer my services to the twitter page
coinking: ok cool, sure. I wanted to inquire about Content Management for BitBet - and if there was a want for Social Media Marketing & Management
danielpbarron: re: the GlobalSolutions guy ^
asciilifeform: (you can achieve the desired layout with bitshifts and logic ops, and end up introducing hidden platform dependencies - endian and wordsize)
asciilifeform: and it is entirely non-negotiable if you're dealing with a hardware register where the bits have to fall -just so-
asciilifeform: on of the 1,001 ways in which 'c' specification is a sad joke.
assbot: The Lost Art of C Structure Packing ... ( http://bit.ly/1FBuXjr )
asciilifeform: because the morons think they can magic their own spew away when it turns embarrassing.
asciilifeform: ^ copied here for the record
asciilifeform: ma and they have taken swift and decisive action in this matter. At their request, the University has committed to provide educational training on diversity and respect for the entire fraternity. The University of Maryland remains committed to our core values of respect for human dignity, diversity, and inclusiveness. We are deeply saddened by the impact this email is having on our community.'
asciilifeform: 'On Tuesday, March 10, 2015, the University of Maryland became aware of an email dated January 2014, 15 months ago. The vulgar language in the email expresses views that are reprehensible to our campus community. We immediately met with the individual involved and a University investigation is currently underway, led by the Office of Civil Rights and Sexual Misconduct. We are in contact with the University chapter of Kappa Sig
asciilifeform: (thoughtcrimey email, from one drunken student to another, 15 months ago !?!)
asciilifeform: the mechanism in question actually -needs- exercise once in a while, or rusts. hence the increasingly lulzy faux mega-outrages and their regularity
asciilifeform: 'sympathy', 'support', esp. of the usg-sponsored very tangible/financial variety is on tap, no questions asked. imagine if insurance worked this way - how many houses would still remain standing ?
asciilifeform: or more pertinent example, the fabricated mega-gang-rapes of recent history
mircea_popescu: perfect reason to actually hang them.
mircea_popescu: because they can't be wrong, or stupid, because they're smart and special.
mircea_popescu: without anyone ever saying they were wrong, or stupid.
asciilifeform: and the idiot parade quietly vanished
asciilifeform: iirc it ended with something like a confession from whoever saw it that 'noose' was no noose at all, but a piece of garbage the wind carried
asciilifeform: (5 or so yrs ago, there was 'mass indignation', hastily-cooked mea culpas from virtually all organizations in any way connected with the campus, demonstrations 'of support' for 'the victims' - after a shred of rope was allegedly found hanging on a tree branch.)
asciilifeform: the latest lulz from umd almost beats the noose incident.
mircea_popescu: it is incidentally the model upon which i see the most serene republic coming to an agreement with the obsolete "states" : bitcoiners are outside of lay jurisdiction, and to be judged by bitcoin court.
mircea_popescu: and as a side note, that's how probation came to be : originally clerics (ie, university students y compris) could claim eclesiastic jurisdiction before they lay court, and be taken before their rector to be judged there.
mircea_popescu: it exists so as to exclude the scum so people who can think can do so, and young people who could one day think can come there to be away from their idiot families, small towns and government.
mircea_popescu: such nonsense tho. "our police department remains comitted to our core values of donuts and shooting the nigger"
asciilifeform: there was perhaps a few shredded flaps of still-chromosomally-passable tissue when i was a student there, a decade ago.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: american universities got cancer long ago ('60s) but now there is scarcely one detectable cell from the original patient at all, only tumour.
mircea_popescu: the university of maryland is a fraud. those can't be the core values of an university.
mircea_popescu: "The University of Maryland remains committed to our core values of respect for human dignity, diversity, and inclusiveness."
assbot: Office of the President, University of Maryland ... ( http://bit.ly/1xyo9Mx )
mircea_popescu: "the Office of Civil Rights and Sexual Misconduct"
asciilifeform: the 'tin hat' was always especially funny to folks who actually know a little physics, because parabolic antenna focused on brain.
mircea_popescu: just goes down a quarter inch or w/e,. into the air.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the spoke doesn't touch anything
chetty: dont forget the tin hat
mircea_popescu: anyway, make mesh of two wires, so that on each hole you have at least one spot of wire at - potential and one spot at + potential. then the size of the hole and the intensity of the emission tell you how much potential you need in the cage.
mircea_popescu: hence passive. it is still a radiator in my theoretical view of things, because it COULD
mircea_popescu: chetty i guess so does all your dust plus the cats, huh
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's forget optical fibres for a second and consider this : on a standard keyboard, making a spoke portrude from each key so that from a width-long perspective each spoke is separated by any other is trivial mechanically. lighting one width and sticking a camera on the other width then resolves the problem,
mircea_popescu: make a sort of cyclotron in your living room, all electrons end up on the plate.
asciilifeform: (mice are easy - just pipe picture from the business end of standard optical mouse, hollowed out, into a remote cabinet to which its guts have been moved)
mircea_popescu: yes, but "shield the screen" vs "shield the screen and shield the keyboard"
mircea_popescu: unwieldy as theyare.
asciilifeform: (and it is also interesting to think about what actually happens on the mechanical contacts. 'key bounce' is not only an annoyance for engineers, but a gift to radiodiddlers, as each spring - and rubber domes not excepted - has characteristic wear)
asciilifeform: the closing of the matrix circuits
mircea_popescu: but re-reading, you actually mean the mechanical keyboard pressing is the source
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if about hypothetical purpose-built jammer - keyboard scan matrix in particular is a moving target, as the frequency of the telltale signal will vary considerably depending on which key(s) are pressed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if asking about the 'second kbd controller as jammer' - the small physical differences (esp. in the quartz oscillator) add up to a distinguishable 'fingerprint' which lets enemy pull a particular kbd signal out of a room full of'em
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller nice one.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu: nor is a conventional jammer practical, because pressing keys results in shift of frequency of harmonics. this appears to be one of those cases where not shitting on the floor is considerably easier than mopping it up...
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu: interesting tidbit from the vuagnoux & pasini paper (section 5.5) - the second-keyboard-as-jammer thing doesn't really work.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, others from last night's thread: http://lasec.epfl.ch/keyboard << oldie re: keyboard rf.
danielpbarron: Contrary to popular opinion within the false Christian world (2 Timothy 3:1-5 & 4:3), God is a Man, as Exodus 15:3 plainly declares. Not corruptible (Romans 1:23; 1 Corinthians 15:50), not created (Psalm 90:2), not a man who progressed and "achieved his exalted rank" as Mormons teach (see the report on Mormonism). But nonetheless, the Lord is a Man. He is a Man of war.
assbot: A True Church - The Lord Is A Man ... ( http://bit.ly/1BUQ2nj )
nubbins`: sounds like you hold an opinion as to the nature of your god; would be interested to hear
danielpbarron: the author created fictional naratives between a person "evoltion" and an astonished inquisitor
danielpbarron: nubbins`, the blog personifies evolution
nubbins`: yet another way to jack yourself off with self-importance: refer to "god" as a person
danielpbarron: yet another way to deny God: call Him "evolution"
Vexual: the base player might have done the ssame
Vexual: "aim for the head asshole"
Vexual: oh theyll shoot you till you're dead then yell at you to take the shirt off
nubbins`: Stuart Duke, defending, said Thew had been an in-patient at a mental health unit and was still in prescription of anti-psychotic medicine, but Judge Lakin said his mental health was 'not a contributing factor'.
nubbins`: oh and you cannot change the email address associated with your account w/o contacting support
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mike_c: ben_vulpes: I do have complete history, and was the only paying customer of kako's socket when he turned it off.
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> because the hot peppers are like lsd + speed << haha yes! I tripped out from eating too much hot sauce once; home made ghost pepper salsa or something
assbot: Tatran - Sol the Blue - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1F2udoB )
Adlai: spread the spell of god
Adlai: thestringpuller: for me, you always invoke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnKhsTXoKCI
Vexual: they also make up a larege part of your interface with your environment
thestringpuller: funkenstein_: a little. my nick is reference to the godfather. a terribly good movie.
Vexual: and twice the horizons to any light polluting town
Adlai: similarly to how gut bacteria play a larger role influencing personality than, say, the skin cells on the bottom of the foot - despite only the latter being 'human'
Vexual: yes, i've seen clear nights hundred of kilometers from the nearest campfire
Adlai: funkenstein_: there's also the initial contents of memory upon powering up the device - ie, the 99.9...% of the egg which is NOT dna
funkenstein_: the small one is also visible with the naked eye but you need a darker place for viewing
Vexual: is it seen with the naked eye?
funkenstein_: sounds nice. seen the LMC recently?
funkenstein_: the word gets used for stuff like relative position in the organism, protein folding influence
Vexual: is there a fruitfly experiment or anything?
funkenstein_: could be explained, but not completely or only by the sequence
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/03/security-as-a-coffin/
mircea_popescu: (conversely, it's usually the case that you do require a trisomy or other polysomy to get the actual worst performance available - kids with such genetic defects are almost universally retarded and sterile)
mircea_popescu: (trisomy is usually a copy of one or the other gene, but it doesn't actually have to be - it could be a mix of them, which ~could~ be a legitimate new gene, if mindbogglingly improbable)
mircea_popescu: which may put it in the billions to one odds of happening, which means that we know enough about genetics since the genome has been sequenced to make judgements about on par with the quality of the pseudoscience that gave us "global warming" and "carbon"
mircea_popescu: and it is unlikely but technically possible that you actually require a TRISOMY to get the topmost performance.
mircea_popescu: the total possible combinations are
mircea_popescu: if the gene for being a total fucktard has genes A through P and a through w, where upcase ones are dominant, it may be the case that the AD kid is the geniusest of them all and the BG kid is the total fucking retardest of the lot, way behind ww or ft or whatever the fuck other recessive combo
mircea_popescu: there's places with 30+ genes, of which multiple are dominant.
mircea_popescu: the single alele pair model is in the books because fucking peas exhibit it, and because it's easy to teach to biologists, who are people who are bad at basic arithmetics.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker. i am so sick and tired of this cloying tiresome pedestrian understanding of genetics.
mircea_popescu: "The other model Hariezer lays out is that magic lies on a single recessive gene. He reasons squibs have one dominant, non-magical version, and one recessive magical version of the gene. So of kids born to squibs, 1/4 will be wizards. In this version, you either have magic or you don’t, so if wizards married the non-magical, wizards themselves could become more rare, but the power of wizards won’t be diluted. C
mircea_popescu: cazalla https://blockchain.info/address/1Ps2m56aEudGVKj7ch8mAje4x6bBzGVNgU << the 48k looks more like 1000ish actually there in the past week ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mike_c dude just fork over the coin for a socket from kakobrekla
ben_vulpes: dude that is the most cryptic apparent nonsequiter.
mircea_popescu: the one thing that'll ruin a bright young mind is success among idiots.
mircea_popescu: you familiar with the "there's nothing worse for a good startup than a bad revenue source early on" quip ?
mircea_popescu: there's a reason for the yawning geopoliticomilitary chasm centering around pekin, and that cause is that the top brass of the us centcom failed to guess cca 1980.
mircea_popescu: thus, they're not bankrupt, and will in fact bury the us.
mircea_popescu: instead of making 25 atomic carriers to the us' dozen, they just made small cheap rockets)
mircea_popescu: note that the chinese very smartly did not do what the usians expected them to do in the 70s/80s (an exact rehash of the 60s/70s russian idiocy of trying to copy them and lose at it, Мы вас похороним! and all that,
ben_vulpes: perhaps i misspeak when i say "superiority" rather than pointing at the value in denying others ownership of a space.
mircea_popescu: this is scarce consolation to the poor schmucks sent to die in the trenches, of course, but we're here discussing the larger problem
mircea_popescu: what can be said about the kid who gets into a fight his first day in the new school ?
ben_vulpes: i'm thinking about floaty things that map out battlefields when floating unpricked around the battlefield.
mircea_popescu: these don't exist not because "it wouldn't be cool", but because it'd be pretty dumb.
ben_vulpes: pluck them mid-flight
mircea_popescu: "air superiority" is for the birds.
mircea_popescu: one of the few fields humanity got mostly right.
mircea_popescu is kinda happy with guns as they are.
ben_vulpes: to give away *even more* of the game what we're after is mini solids with vanes in the exhaust that protrude out from the projectile body.
ben_vulpes: babes are people too and generally smarter than the doodz in the w0t
ben_vulpes: you see people this is actually the vile shit
mircea_popescu: it's unavoidable, she's the server, scheduling naturally resides with her, which...
mircea_popescu: which is 80% of them ?
ben_vulpes: you know that gangbang where ladybird's really running the show?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes maybe they just wanna play conect-r with her.
mircea_popescu: to my great shame, those eyebrows are the only thing i recall of this girl.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> "the last remaining bastion " >> http://40.media.tumblr.com/bab78269d215cf75ed1df862a19e1494/tumblr_mz3c8j5Dmq1s0f482o1_1280.jpg << oh homegirl's about to have some fun
mircea_popescu: so mp goes "go and buy some vodka". everyone (~dozen ppls) gets drunk offa half the bottle. girl drinks other half. her eyebrows slowly but surely keep rising all through the night)
mircea_popescu: (tru story : mp was once at a guy's bday party, very smart coder guy. the party - total cockfest. mp's escort only girl in the room. mp sighs and goes got any booze ?
ben_vulpes: OH THERE'S LICORICE IS THER
mircea_popescu: there's licorice ?
ben_vulpes: the viscosity is nearly that of water
mircea_popescu: sorry ben, im affraid the wine's more runny than you'd like it./
ben_vulpes: stahp i'll wake the girl
mircea_popescu: the cat's eaten it.
mircea_popescu: the truck broke down.
mircea_popescu: there's no wine. sorry.
mircea_popescu: anyway, we're also going to the place's best porterhouse steak imo, so there is that.
ben_vulpes: so actually entertainingly, one of the decent sex parties happens in the warehouse where i used to house the boys.
mircea_popescu: no, i'd rather pester you :D
mircea_popescu: unless they fuck it up, which... argentines are famously unreliable.
ben_vulpes: look i'm making a reference to the plethora of local fauna.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: well if you're going to the events listed on the homepage for noobs...
ben_vulpes: is it one of those silly 'performances' where dinner is stupid expensive and you watch a theatrical thinger?
mircea_popescu: "Have fun, meet new friends and become a part of the Sesso Community. Become a volunteer at Club Sesso!" dude...
ben_vulpes: on a previous branch, i'm far more interested in a) vino b) carne and c) tango than the local whatever whatever
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is ron jeremy
mircea_popescu: oh, swinger's club. the local thing i visited and cursed closed meanwhile.
ben_vulpes: the bdsm club heh
ben_vulpes: anyways, no, thank you, i'll not impose that on the gentle asshats
mircea_popescu: not that you'd conceivably need it, what they do here is print little 3x2 papers and stick them everywhere.
mircea_popescu: neways, you can has list of pickup places, ie, where the girls go to work.
mircea_popescu: if it makes you feel any better i was saying the same in teh us.
ben_vulpes: all i hear is "jesus fuck these people are retarded"
ben_vulpes: i've club sesso right down the street.
ben_vulpes: your reports of the local bdsm scene are *not* a sales pitch.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, prostitution being legal, and the universities being in session...
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes errywhere. if you folks feel like it we'll go check out the local bdsm club.
ben_vulpes: i am emailing my father right now to see if that model is still in his basement
ben_vulpes: <danielpbarron> https://twitter.com/danielpbarron/status/577976775449300992 << this is the most badass thing
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell jurov <jurov> ben_vulpes rly? you want patches for makeshift build scripts? << look either you run diff or the n people running the list do.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i was talking about the nodes they were using tro "spy on bitcoin" aka "repackage freely available information for the bezzle idiots"
ben_vulpes: hey speaking of where are the eager young sluts to be found in bsas?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [19:53] indescript house in omaha, married, with children. about as boring as it gets. << orgies on the yangtzee with bill gates
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [19:01] really there was absolutely no reason (apart from their tim swansonesque contemptuous idiocy) to make the nodes visible. << feel free to block 0.5.3.1 nodes if you can find them, reddit.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [18:57] but for one thing it's bullshit and for the other thing, it doesn't really wash. << nor do the workmen, and for that matter why would anyone want to be of the unwashed masses?
ben_vulpes: man the temptation to quote out of context is p. strong.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
megadeth: Mircea, a personal thank you from my side for 1) Placing your money on the bitbet. 2) Spending your personal wealth in the well being of BTC.
ben_vulpes: the shopping list?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Shanti Dynamite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1xwI6U9 )
BingoBoingo: Oh, I'm not talking the crops
mircea_popescu: well they wouldn't be picking the ones that didn't.
decimation: possibly, but they could probably get started by picking the plants that survived the spraying
BingoBoingo: decimation> usg helps make roundup resistant cocaine << Honestly wouldn't be surprised if the cartels innovated that themselves
mircea_popescu: and they wanted to go to where cocaine is made and congratulate the people on their great discovery.
decimation: I've heard that chicken farmers actually become somewhat immune to the extreme ammonia smell
mircea_popescu: because the hot peppers are like lsd + speed, while cocaine is basically sugar++
mircea_popescu: also they want two things from earth : hot peppers
mircea_popescu: so the et are known as ... the pissed upons.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/pisatii/ << btw, ancient sf of mine. the central idea being that et come, their home atmosphere is heavy in amonia, so they have some special suits to recycle the amonia, which somewhat leak... which leaks smell like... stale piss.
decimation: and doesn't copy bits off the air and save them to 'encrypted storage' without intervention
asciilifeform: or, likely, in the room you're sitting in.
decimation: actually, since apple controls the complete stack all the way down to silicon, they are in a unique position to actually deliever, but didn't
decimation: it's just that they failed to deliver anything
decimation: well, they did actually appear to spend alot of time 'giving a fuck'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It's just the cascade of fail yudo shits out
decimation: if you read the apple whitepaper on the iphone 5 security, you see they play all kinds of shell games attempting to keep keys in temporary buffers so that the storage can be 'encrypted' while still able to receive texts, unlock screen, etc
decimation: asciilifeform: the ultimate problem is not actually having a secure terminal, but pretending that you do
asciilifeform: not that it would have made a serious difference in the end -
mircea_popescu: soon as you log in for the first time.
mircea_popescu: The above password has been automatically generated. You should <b>change it</b> as
mircea_popescu: Please write down the following login information
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah. apple supposedly spent years trying to make the device secure
mircea_popescu: it's them alright.
asciilifeform: 'What is surprising however is that this still works even with the “Erase data after 10 attempts” configuration setting enabled. Our initial analysis indicates that the IP Box is able to bypass this restriction by connecting directly to the iPhone’s power source and aggressively cutting the power after each failed PIN attempt, but before the attempt has been synchronized to flash memory.' << mega-l0l!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno, so they can claim the most valuable email address in bitcoin space as "a customer" ?
decimation: lolz > http://blog.mdsec.co.uk/2015/03/bruteforcing-ios-screenlock.html < can bruteforce the 4-digit pin on the iphone 5 in 40 seconds
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do the links contained in the turd point to the genuine site ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sounds like forged headers (why would the actual 'bitstamp' spam ? wtf is the point)
decimation: I'm sure they found a way to game the feds out of bezzlars in exchange for piles of fake weed
decimation: re: fake drug seizures < if you drill down in the report, you find that 96% of the 'ditchweed' was destroyed in just one state: indiana
mircea_popescu: in other words "redditards, welcome!"
mircea_popescu: they are spamming what's most likely a bought list.
decimation: mircea_popescu: the first rule of customer service is to ignore the customer
asciilifeform: though the 'how' is trivial.
BingoBoingo: !up goofythedog
decimation: asciilifeform: you could use the telegraph keyer like that ru chick
asciilifeform: or, failing that, mechanical vibration (as in early 'spark gap' cad tablets of the '70s)
asciilifeform: to round out the keyboard thread, i am quite close to being convinced of the necessity of keyboard with optical fiber for mechanism
decimation: yeah here's the tool: http://qsy.to/pcr/talkpcr.html < works for pcr-100
decimation: and the res bandwidth is not small
decimation: aye. the problem is that the sweep rate is usually very low
decimation: there was a windows tool that turned the pcr-1000 into a spectrum analyzer - not fast but it kinda worked
decimation: I have the 1000, it's a good unit
decimation: heh the icom pcr-1000?
asciilifeform: i only have the equivalent of a 'copper toilet' here.
asciilifeform: decimation: the rf amp is the golden toilet
decimation: which may have obvious side effects on the circuitry
decimation: the other solution is to insert a differential filter (lowpass) in the actual scan array circuit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i understnad how the matrix thing works.
asciilifeform: the array itself appears to radiate also.
decimation: asciilifeform: I understand, I'm talking about the connection between the microprocessor and the scan array
asciilifeform: decimation: not coming from the cable!
decimation: common mode chokes create an impedence to the common mode circuit - you would have to pass both signal and ground through them. a mix #43 toroid with several turns of both signal and ground would help
decimation: asciilifeform: there might be little you can do unless you are willing to modify the internal circuitry
decimation: asciilifeform: it could be from the cord
asciilifeform: .... and another harmonic
asciilifeform: ... aaaand another harmonic
BingoBoingo: Du's prolly close to the optimal choice though
mircea_popescu: not so different from what the us is doing currently.

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