mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058711 << lmao. newer versions are forks, yo. that's the definition of the words.
asciilifeform: for the враги народа
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform how about that one! they've not sold anything to anyone since last year. and yet...
asciilifeform: and for the wreckerz
asciilifeform: begins with every fart of the program design and ends with the crate which is opened yet again for good measure
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't ask cisco for their own heads on a platter.
BingoBoingo: brendafdez: With Cisco the NSA spying likely begins on the main silicon out of the factory
mircea_popescu: i can see why the gavin troop would like the defense of "we have already moved the protocol once" to rely on, but it's simply not true.
mircea_popescu: and the second time it won't, if that happens, its chain will be also abandoned.
mircea_popescu: but the first time it didn't submit its chain was abandoned
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:10:30; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: for example, back when Bitcoin's consensus protocol used BDB, one such wedge was the lock limit
mircea_popescu: anyway, for the sake of historical accuracy, re http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058687 : bitcoin STILL USES the bdb protocol.
assbot: Cisco posts kit to empty houses to dodge NSA chop shops • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/18NafQH )
brendafdez: i thought you may want ot have a laugh and it seems it wasn't shared here yet: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/03/18/want_to_dodge_nsa_supply_chain_taps_ask_cisco_for_a_dead_drop/
assbot: Logged on 17-11-2014 04:49:54; asciilifeform: all you have to do, then, is to pile on the meat puppets, until suddenly there is a 'controversy', and there are 'points of view', and eventually - a 'consensus.'
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:49; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: I mean the consensus protocol
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058668 << gotta admire the insistence on branding. here's a thought : gavin's neck was broken in public. you don't come out of that by inventing a new word to try and rally support around.
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 02:28:39; asciilifeform: 'On two occasions I have been asked, 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.'
asciilifeform: what kind of dope does one need to take to even imagine otherwise ?
mircea_popescu: every time you change anything you're stuck auditing the whole thing you changed./
mircea_popescu: where does all this braindamage stem from, seriously. what's the difference between an "only audit the changes auditing process" and dead reckoning ?
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: and there mircea_popescu observed that such a thing would have to come with a strong proof of equivalence to be worth taking seriously
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: in the old thread, that is; it was about a hypothetical clean re-implementation of the whole thing
mircea_popescu: "only audit the changes" ?
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:17; Luke-Jr: afaik only the guys here are trying to maintain any sort of pre-leveldb codebase now
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058664 << contrary to what you might have erroneously come to believe a) 0.5.1 version as printed by the bitcoin foundation is the cannonical version of bitcoin ; b) various groups of scammers trying to attack bitcoin are continuously pushing their own versions of solidcoin, which has all the importance of ms boring's bitcoin chamber of commerce.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: you audit only the changes
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there was one in here around 12 hrs ago
asciilifeform has understood that there is not an else
mircea_popescu: through a bunch of ignorant twerps using words they don't understand the meaning of, in the context of their self-allocated importance ?
asciilifeform: but was hoping the answer is something else
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:06:01; asciilifeform: how does a db end up thought of as part of the protocol ?
BingoBoingo: At the time of the 2013 fork I humbly though resolution would be possible. I mean it is just making DB's agree. Yet... LevelDB is a mess.
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: try to understand the actual scope of such an audit
mircea_popescu: only way to manage it i can think of at the moment is disallowing the power ranger imbeciles from further commits
assbot: Logged on 26-02-2015 21:24:28; mircea_popescu: you're stuck with that. how do you think the original fork happened.
BingoBoingo would rather not have to run a Bitcoind in -leper mode if he gets more powerful sparc hardware
BingoBoingo really dislikes the way leveldb handles memory.
mircea_popescu: i tyhought they were stuggling with getting it to work.
midnightmagic: like the really unfortunate backout of the M:N threading model on NetBSD. that was a sad time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't intend to bring the cardboard
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058571 << what the fuck % packaging is that ?
asciilifeform: whether like it or not.
asciilifeform: folks doing dev work of one kind or another - run 'current'
midnightmagic: Also, I don't know much about FreeBSD except they caught their shitty /dev/random mistake before it was released to production
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic i don't think anyoine's using them anymore seriously.
BingoBoingo: ^ Noone used Theos NetBSD fork in 1996
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: let's insert a link to the old thread here, so we don't have to repeat it.
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the 0.5.3.1 fork.
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: if someone wants to trick you into accepting an invalid block, they can use this to do so
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: the thing I'd be more concerned about was the recent non-random random number generator they committed to released versions.
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: if the usg charlatans want to create a fork with incompatible tx validation rules, they are welcome to.
BingoBoingo: <Luke-Jr> a non-db example that we are currently getting rid of is the non-DER signatures << Has the problem of people creating such sigs really happened outside of the goxnode retardation beginning block 168001?
asciilifeform: but midnightmagic is thinking of security, rather than forkholes
Luke-Jr: a non-db example that we are currently getting rid of is the non-DER signatures
midnightmagic: asciilifeform: it's coincidence. if there is ever an insert which succeeds in leveldb but fails in bdb, those nodes will no longer be capable of sync'ing to head.
asciilifeform: Luke-Jr: know of another ?
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: for example, back when Bitcoin's consensus protocol used BDB, one such wedge was the lock limit
asciilifeform: there are still plenty of non-'leveldb' nodes operating
midnightmagic: Linux on PPC builds and syncs to head based on the bigendian patch. I have not verified it against a current git yet.
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: Well for openbsd builds fired live the big change isn't db at all, but in wallet.cpp changing the random call to a better one (should not be necessary in -current or 5.7)
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: if it is not bug-for-bug compatible with LevelDB, someone can fork you off the network
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: ah, hm. I wonder how easily just adding some OpenBSD checks similar to the FreeBSD ones would go
Luke-Jr: if leveldb fails to insert a UTXO, then a transaction creating that UTXO is invalid by the consensus rules
BingoBoingo: Luke-Jr: OpenBSD. I had the choice of debugging a bunch of wank or reverting to 0.7.2 and hand patching.
Luke-Jr: which is inherently defined by the code
Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: I mean the consensus protocol
Luke-Jr: afaik only the guys here are trying to maintain any sort of pre-leveldb codebase now
asciilifeform: how does a db end up thought of as part of the protocol ?
Luke-Jr: BingoBoingo: post of course. LevelDB is part of the Bitcoin consensus protocol now.
cazalla: asciilifeform, my reputation for poverty IRL might not match with what goes on here simply because the one thing i will spend money on is food/drink.. every unit i've rented furnished with second hand goods, i've purchased clothing from the same places (mind you, have not purchased clothing in at least 2 years)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I need working hardware. In the past I've treated such bexen as too disposable. Ingnored fans cries for help.
BingoBoingo wonders if Big endian bitcoind will happen before all of the blockchain passes the 127 GB most interesting of such machines are limited to.
mircea_popescu: mod6 got tons more of thems.
asciilifeform: i'd rather fill a suitcase with benjies & publicly burn it
BingoBoingo: Brand new car is the worst possible expense in the Anglophone world. Nearly half the sticker price goes straight to the fire.
asciilifeform: (rather than dangerous)
asciilifeform: possibly the most dangerous animal to be in the lands of usg (and au, as i understand, is a kind of target practice range for usg idiocies) is the fella with just enough to be worth skinning, but three or four zeroes short of mircea_popescu-esque atomic dirigible where he can hit back
BingoBoingo: This Saturn sedan has forded roads deeper than the floor of the passenger compartment, traveled to the other side of a divided freeway, and still burns fuel like a miser
cazalla: if there is anything that gets my blood pressure sky rocketing, it's people tell me or someone close to me how i should spend money on useless shit
hanbot: so then maybe she could buy you a new one.
cazalla: hanbot, nope, she has a merc to drive around in, mcmansion etc (all paid for by the long dead but rich father in law mind you)
hanbot: maybe she wants the old one.
cazalla: bloody mother in laws who give their daughters the idea that you need a new car simply because the old one is looking old (despite being fucking fine mechanically wise)
assbot: PROTO-GERMANIC & INDO-EUROPEAN STUDIES: "POWER TENDS TO CORRUPT & ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY" : THE US GOVERNMENT UNLAWFUL EXTRAORDINARY RENDITION LAWS WHERE OUR TRAITOROUS, WICKED CONGRESS (SAVE A FEW LIKE RON PAUL, AL FRANKEN, DENNIS KUCINICH) HAVE MADE THEMSELVES GODS OVER US. ... ( http://bit.ly/1CCmNbe )
asciilifeform: l0l, looking for the r4tc4g3 found - http://www.protogermanic.com/2012/02/power-tends-to-corrupt-absolute-power.html
BingoBoingo: Maybe here the rats know to stay in the farm fields, but... They don't seem endemic here like the mice do.
mod6: <+funkenstein_> i tested the 0.5.3 build on an old ubuntu box, built like a charm << nice! thanks for the info
asciilifeform: ^ from, i think, one of the film versions
asciilifeform: incidentally i often wonder if the ratfacecage is still in fashion somewhere
asciilifeform: at night they walk, you can see'em
asciilifeform: huge rats here, straight out of the ratfacecage scene in '1984'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Southern Illinois, about 30 miles east of East StL
asciilifeform: what, where BingoBoingo lives there are no rats ?
asciilifeform: when moving last year - left it on the kerb. and someone picked it up...
asciilifeform: funny thing, it sat in my old flat for... 7 years, in the kitchen closet, filled with rat shit
asciilifeform: the power supply also slid out
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the most 'shieldy' box i've ever personally owned was a hp 'visualize'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I liked that form factor. Just looking at the models that slice a zero off of the model number atm.
BingoBoingo: Does the sun ray have any compute power of its own? Blade 150 looked interesting because somewhat portable pizza box form, IDE drives, and good old VGA monitor hookups.
asciilifeform: there's no shortage of'em here.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: About how it would work IRL. "Security Theater" and all that
funkenstein_: i tested the 0.5.3 build on an old ubuntu box, built like a charm
funkenstein_: lol, wow that's quite a bit more information then
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Oh no that's just his substance. You know instead of being limited to TCAG like the rest of us his genetics require the whole character set.
funkenstein_: harvesting ascii for us in the field
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: He might be communting from the field
mircea_popescu: yes, but he also got the right general direction.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, lulzy scene. my in bucharest, with slavegirl, at mother's appartment. she goes "oh, so she's X ?" "yeah. would you like to see her naked ?"
mircea_popescu: not once you get the lice.
mircea_popescu: that's the golden standard as a field anthropologist : once the gorillas start plucking your lice.
funkenstein_: i like that, you gotta meet the locals
mircea_popescu: lol oddly protective. you have to learn a foreign language yo. you have to love a woman that's perfectly incomprehensible for your parents. that's what travel is . the rest's tourism.
mircea_popescu: well, did you ever spend time abroad ? how much ? did you learn the local language ? did you fuck local or brownbag ? etc.
trinque: someone will always own the dirt, and have a name for himself and the people who live there.
funkenstein_: equally treated as useless unless evidence is presented otherwise
ascii_field: funkenstein_: but unless i misunderstand, you see the passport as a dumb, pointless ritual
ascii_field: states come and go, civilizations are in it for the long (but not infinitely long...) haul.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the fucktarded notion that "children belong to the goddess" that not even repressive medieval christianity could stamp out may well be a problem of the western line.
ascii_field: funkenstein_: if you actually think 'nations are irrelevant' and that folks across the sea are funnily-accented clones of yourself - buy a plane ticket, learn something
ascii_field: aha. but in the process of digesting it, cn would have turned into something like ru
mircea_popescu: ascii_field if cn sat next to europe there wouldn't be a europe.
ascii_field: without the buffer zone
mircea_popescu: the notion that the first's fighting a proxy war with the second via us/ru is... a little too livresque for my taste.
ascii_field: and other resistance to 'civilized' degeneracy
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i won't say specifically ru, but various aspects like 'children belong to parents as meat, not to the state' being in their bones
mircea_popescu: well maybe uninformedly, but i do believe there is such a thing as chinese, and european civilisation.
BingoBoingo: Mao and the Japs ended whatever might have been Chinese civilization
ascii_field: all states are evil << entirely below the conflict between the mega-states, is some pretty fundamental clash of civilizations
mircea_popescu: After the battle, Hermoine becomes concerned that women are underrepresented among heros of the wizarding world, and starts a Society for the Promotion of Heroic Equality for Witches or SPHEW.
mircea_popescu: how could you NOT live there. perusing cnreddit and thinking "yeah... but then again... they cut his balls off"
BingoBoingo: Not yet, but China's going to need a war soon to cut down their surplus dude problem.
trinque: china's maneuver against the US will go down in history
mircea_popescu: neither has russia, but then again it can be granted it doesn't need to, having been so recently gutted entirely.
BingoBoingo: I just hope the big 3 (Russia, China, USia) simply keep up their current equilibrium of losing.
mircea_popescu: one could perhaps shop for evils one likes, these stone homosexuals, those rape niggers, those others strangle unvirgin teens, whatever.
mircea_popescu: trinque anyway, if you feel like digging, the outrage of mass rape by uk & other nato soldiers in darfour is amply documented, if amply buried by the "respectable" anglo venues, starting with bbc.
mircea_popescu: cazalla inb a word, i'd say it's exactly the correct position.
mircea_popescu: cazalla : in context of virtual coins, bnr makes the following statements : "not national currency, not foreign currency, no one has to accept it as a means of payment"
assbot: Inside the Kremlin Troll Army Machine: Templates, Guidelines, and Paid Posts · Global Voices ... ( http://bit.ly/1xCZruw )
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla people with enough money have this priviledge, that they may order whatever they wish in the restaurant.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu so you will allow for your clients to get fucked, as you strongly believe that addr reuse is the the way to go, yet you will serve poisonous uniques to clients.
mircea_popescu: trinque did they ever run the stories about how uk soldiers ran a private rape camp in africa, paying the refugees about a dollar per year of age for all night ?
assbot: The BBC is still ignoring evidence of a potential cover-up over Jimmy Savile - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/1C1TkFp )
trinque: jurov: dunno bout proof, but I'm referring to things like this http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/11243459/The-BBC-is-still-ignoring-evidence-of-a-potential-cover-up-over-Jimmy-Savile.html
mircea_popescu: just because man doesn't wear a bra doesn't show much about it, men don't wear bras, they wear ties.
mircea_popescu: basically you're saying "how come the man doesn't have a bra ?" when discussing whether man and woman are both dressed.
chetty: they do their share of making rhe russian the bad guys ...like homosexulas can¿t drive there
trinque: jurov: bbc works in the opposite direction, covering up for the uk politicans raping the kids themselves
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla sadly one can't have at the same time verifiability and opacity.
jurov: we can close whole thing with "everyone is doing it" but.. when did bbc published something like rt did "EU is preparing laws to take your children and to give them to homosexuals"?
mircea_popescu: paranoia only remains in the tank.
ascii_field: chetty: there is a confounding factor: that much of su was bought up at fire-sale by usg operatives
trinque: chetty: and sure, always knew they were rivers of shit; still hadn't ever heard from anyone that for example even knew what russia was like internally
kakobrekla: anyway just to conclude ihmo this accounts thing does not hold water, but wont poke further.
chetty: rt/nbc/cnn all the same big disinfo machine
mircea_popescu: see it's from fishing, when a fish bites so hard it eats not just the bait, but with it the hook, and the bit of fishing line all theway to the floating thing
ascii_field: jurov: notice that i don't live in ru, and nobody's inviting me over. but i happen to see the conflict of irreconcilable civilizations thing, and see the ru version - with the orc barbarism, yes - as less moribund
mircea_popescu: you know, just because most people find sooner or later personal reasons to hate large groups of idiots doesn't reduce the problem.
kakobrekla: "theories about privacy and keep pestering me for special addresses" < why would anyone be concerned only to have the first address for first deposit+registration unique but is then fine using 1fx for all later deposits
kakobrekla: i dont see how it makes sense to have a special deposit address for first registration+deposit and then you are fine using the single one for all of the rest of txes
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 20:22:56; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057738 << it is. people (especially people kinda too lazy to study things in depth) have all sorts of theories about privacy and keep pestering me for special addresses etc. it's a fashion is what it is, one i don't aim to encourage, and i'm stuck because w/e, serving teh customer.
mircea_popescu: but the original universities were fortified, exactly to keep the redidtards of the time awya.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 12:53:07; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057736 << have you looked on the 1Fx addy? that would mean no new accounts since november
mircea_popescu: "university" means elitist and antisocial. neither of these exists in the muggle world anymore,
trinque: had the distinct reaction after hanging out a while that "this is what university was supposed to have been..."
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057950 << and i dun think you're the only one.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 17:54:20; mod6: is anyone working on porting over the original submitted deeds to the new deedbot?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the well documented nonfiction blog is always well regarded, and as it happens stuff that's banal to you often will be fascinating to others. which is why a psychologist's blog is like, b-a's favourite blog or something.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057929 << very true danielpbarron. blogs aren't a collection of literary fiction unless you particularly wish to do that. there's however a glut of bad ones, because many idiots think themselves "creative" when they're just stupid, ignorant and lazy.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 17:06:07; thestringpuller: danielpbarron: re: youtube videos for dumb people << i've started thinking because Videos are much easier to consume than words, dumb people are more attracted to it cause they can "watch it" instead of "read it"
mircea_popescu: how the fuck do thicker walls lower crime.
mircea_popescu: if this implies he settled on pow for that reason, it then follows he chose the correct mechanism for exactly the wrong reason, becuase that's the only aspect under which pow has failed.
mircea_popescu: as a fine example, the bit danielpbarron quotes : "The proof-of-work also solves the problem of determining representation in majority decision making. If the majority were based on one-IP-address-one-vote, it could be subverted by anyone able to allocate many IPs. Proof-of-work is essentially one-CPU-one-vote."
mircea_popescu: one of the most fascinating things about reading satoshi's statements is just how often he makes the correct choice for the wrong reasons.
mircea_popescu: ajhaha you got cut off before the better parts.
mircea_popescu: who is this then, goat ?
chetty: they left out racist
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 16:51:07; trinque: my both immediate and long-term strategy has been to identify markets where the software has languished, and to raid the space with something built well
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057881 << generally the correct strategy is "never compete in saturated markets". which is why i don't date, i don't vc, i don't business school etc.
mircea_popescu: this "idea" is so fucking retarded it's perhaps the best advertisement to my ancient "you don't get to have ideas, go work for someone who matters" thing. only people without the first clue as to how things work could entertain such nonsense.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 16:56:38; danielpbarron: he's probably referring to some thing where both parties put up bitcoin collateral in an escrow controlled by "the block chain"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057901 << imagine fi every time you went to buy something both you and the seller had to imobilize capital. wallmart would need trillions just to be able to keep doing business.
mircea_popescu: people will react when you point out the paranoia.
mircea_popescu: like saying "look at this cute 9 year old girl, i bet she's got a cunt between her legs under the skirt there" is rather impolitic,
jurov: "from nato-world standpoint, ru is holding the rest of the planet back - by annoyingly remaining alive and sitting on all that 'unearned' mineral resource and unraped land"
jurov: why do his worldview does bother me so, i don't know
mircea_popescu: what, it's secret, i don't get to see it ? only the choice alfs ?
fluffypony: "release the money to mircea_popescu if I send the money to mircea_popescu" is about the sum total of it
mircea_popescu: so basically... it's about as redundant as everything else the power rangers have made, past coupla years.
fluffypony: basically it can only ever work on things directly observable on the blockchain
fluffypony: the fact that you can fuck with something outside of it is a fail point
mircea_popescu: jurov you have a point, there.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 16:56:16; fluffypony: the fulfillment is easy
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-03-2015#1057898 << easy my foot. i hope you try and think you succeeded and then automate it and then i rape you with dns poisoning.
jurov: US is not risking a conflict there
jurov: that's russian paranoia from the US. it's clear beyond doubt, chinese will move to siberia first, given an opportunity
mircea_popescu: dubious. most oil is probably in the sea.
ascii_field: and likewise (though less so) the petro
mircea_popescu: <ascii_field> more efficient economical system runs through the fuel - faster. elementary << nope, other way around actually. the more advanced, the more fuel.
ascii_field: jurov: just describing why 'there ain't room in the town for the both'of'em' to borrow from 'western' films
mircea_popescu: and russians don't have many freiends in the caucasus etc
mircea_popescu: simpler explanation : everyone in central europe hates the russians, because last time they had the chance to matter they fucked it up.
ascii_field: more efficient economical system runs through the fuel - faster. elementary
mircea_popescu: well so then this can't be it.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field ahem. the us is sitting on a lot of unearned mineral resources and unraped land. like say, alaska.
ascii_field: and jurov is right - from nato-world standpoint, ru is holding the rest of the planet back - by annoyingly remaining alive and sitting on all that 'unearned' mineral resource and unraped land
mircea_popescu: ascii_field an advantageous explanation would be : they knew they didn't do it, so...
ascii_field: jurov: do you not find it peculiar that the verdict was decided on by nato media immediately, without the corpses so much as having even cooled down ?
ascii_field: jurov: admitting that i wasn't there, didn't shoot it,
mircea_popescu: you shouldn't go around logged into the windows equivalent of root.
mircea_popescu: lobbes well actually, since a bunch of uninformed idiots are creating the problem in the first place, adding more resolves it rather than anything.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 14:29:09; funkenstein_: is openbsd the only reason to have an optical drive?