mircea_popescu: besides the point. here's mp's prediction : the computer that can be had for a one ounce of gold in 2025 will be inferior to the computer that can be had for an ounce of gold today, on computation measures.
asciilifeform: and if you're building computers in the tens or hundreds rather than quajizillions quantities there is no reason not to use germanium, gallium arsenide, doped diamond, etc. chemistries
mircea_popescu: i am firmly persuaded that the wall's coming.
mircea_popescu: "Progress in computer hardware has followed an amazingly steady curve in the last few decades [17]." << by now moore';s law is currency in trading for everyine, from usgavin to vince whoever.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you know those stories about how rich guy heard the paupers / shoeshine boys discuss stocks and bailed ?
BingoBoingo offers now that if any motherfucker named Dallas Cook is trying to dope me with malware I would advise stopping that felony.
nubbins`: got the paranoia right anyway
asciilifeform: (saw as darker, more demented version of their own time, naturally)
mircea_popescu: i thought he knew the future.
asciilifeform: the massive sequence alignment thing wasn't a going concern quite yet.
asciilifeform: check the date.
decimation: you would quite literally need to buy a plot of farmland in the middle of nowhere
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, i don't own there.
decimation: asciilifeform: even in middle america it's the same, on any newer home
mircea_popescu: http://maria-konovalenko.typepad.com/blog/2010/06/the-blocking-point.html << check out this transhumanist project. "let's pretend like we're valuable and have skills and people should be queing on our door to give us moneys"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform amusingly, some state authority or other decided to cut cables. the city hall nearly caught fire as a result, and the plan was discontinuied.
decimation: in the us, it is common for nearly all homes built after 1970 to be built upon land which is part of an 'hoa'
mircea_popescu: decimation this is exactly how ro internet worked, and the reason ro internet is today in the top 5 worldwide, with 4 azns : that pressure ten years ago
decimation: but the probability that a given set of 100 homes in the the us would be occupied by owners so enlightened..
asciilifeform: works in ro where there were sentient lifeforms about, circa 1994 or when
decimation: asciilifeform: it's more than just digging rights. surely the majority of surban homeowners would be more than happy to make their own comcast if they could
asciilifeform: thiel (and possibly friends) seed it. the chumpatronium sustains.
mircea_popescu: i guess to the random eye this is === bitcoin
mircea_popescu: "Hank Pellissier is the director of Brighter Brains Institute, and the producer of eight transhumanist conferences in 2013-2015."
asciilifeform: works great to the nearest transformer booth (where you need an active amp)
decimation: or your power supply. or whatever, because who the fuck knows what is going on in your uninspectible 10gbs bus
mircea_popescu: i gues tptb don't see fiber in the future of america.
mircea_popescu: i think the plan is to merge coaxial and power lines.
asciilifeform: which (stolen from korean coffee pots) was the one good idea apple forced through the thick skulls of other vendors
asciilifeform: and a retreat from the magnetic plug
decimation: because it makes so much sense to have the same plug for your power port and your video signal
decimation: later google et.al. jumped on the bandwagon
asciilifeform: (apple released a machine which is entirely unusable without the dock gizmo)
mircea_popescu: fuck, i had no idea there's a transhumanist party.
mircea_popescu: The Speaker List includes: Zoltan Istvan 2016 US Presidential candidate of Transhumanist Party
asciilifeform: decimation: aha, their dock connector
asciilifeform: speaking of the 'genuine article'
mircea_popescu: "The conference begins with a Meet & Greet session from 12:15 1:00 pm, followed by speakers from 1:00 5:00. After the conference, participants will be encouraged to continue the discussion at a nearby bar (location announced at the event). The cost to attend the mini-conferences is only $20; only $15 for students, seniors, and people who travel more than 50 miles to get there. Tickets on sale at EventBrit
mircea_popescu: say timmy... anything you could do with these two burnt matcsticks TO CREATE A BETTER ALPHA CENTAURY FOR MILLIONS OF STARS IN THE GALAXI ?!?!?
mircea_popescu: "What are the Transhuman Goals in the near future? How can these Transhuman ideas permeate the mainstream? Are there ways Transhumanism can assert itself in the political sphere? How can Transhumanist ideas and innovations create a better world now, for billions of people on Earth?"
mircea_popescu: maybe they slip up and built the transhuman bureaucracy, complete with transflipcharts.
decimation: does anyone here live in the bay area?
decimation: yes, the business model is failing. it still exists, but it is a victim of its own success in the sense that it has trained the masses to ignore radio
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "It's wise to keep track of what your mortal enemies do, and there's little that more exemplifies Pure Evil in this world than Eliezer Yudkowsky." << Dude is harmless can't even kill the little girl without a troll
decimation: the music label's real 'problem solving' would be knowing how to push the right bellybuttons to force a song to be played in a large chunk of the existing radio stations/youtubes/ipods
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pilo_ I read the whole Yudo Harierzer thing
mircea_popescu: not the market. you're a record label for having 100 singer-songrwiters, that'll make whatever shit, not for having 100mn customers who'll buy whatever you put out.
mircea_popescu: the very strange thing here is that he somehow thinks the "releases" are the problem record labels solve.
asciilifeform: although to mr mold's credit - the man once proposed that moldbuggerites dress in tweed 'to rebel'
mircea_popescu: lbum by Young Boy Hybrid. Currently Collective Conscious Records has eighteen releases available and we have several more on the way this year."
mircea_popescu: "I started the record label because I wasnt happy with any of the offers i got from other record labels. Its a way I can release my own stuff on my own terms. After the first couple releases people started getting interested in the label. Ive even started working out deals with some artists. I recently released a few tracks with Lonnie Dangerous and Collective Conscious Records is getting ready to release an a
mircea_popescu: (la haine = to clothes, in ro.)
asciilifeform: you won't catch them dressing up as mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: decimation: aha. nor will they put on a cravat
mircea_popescu: it's scary what kids today use to describe themselves.
decimation: asciilifeform: re: look alike < note that they are all 'alterntive' in the same way. none of them choose to dress like 15th century nobility, for example
mircea_popescu: "We thank Stanislav Datskovskiy for his assistance with the measurement of telomerase activity in some of these experiments and Martha Kirby for her expert assistance in the analysis of apoptosis." check you out.
asciilifeform: http://www.jimmunol.org/content/166/11/6647.full << mentioned in the 'monkeys' section
asciilifeform: srsly, why must these folks all look alike ?!
asciilifeform: the fella in that picture is such a jaronlanier
mircea_popescu: "Crowdfunding: Support Titanovos Novel Telomere Testing Technology" complete with their own scams an' errything.
asciilifeform: in mr k's view, the hypothetical ai is alive and building it 'friendly' (to use mr y's term) is an act of diabolical cruelty
mircea_popescu: "It's wise to keep track of what your mortal enemies do, and there's little that more exemplifies Pure Evil in this world than Eliezer Yudkowsky."
mircea_popescu: it gets worse, there's entire swaths of particles that are mirrored, you'll never know if you've got various pairs right or backwards.
asciilifeform: decimation: to be fair, even discussing its 'whereabouts' is wrong straight off the bat.
decimation: mircea_popescu: one cannot speak with certainty about the whereabouts of a single electron, even with infinite bezzlars to dispose on the task
decimation: how is that not exactly the same as "oh wow, that's so amazing'
mircea_popescu: How do I know I'm the real deal instead of a crazed nutter? Because I tend to elicit the 'damn, that's so obvious now' reaction from people who elicit that same reaction from people like you.
mircea_popescu: The Real Deal
decimation: re: simulation > consider 266 bits. the number of possibilities for those bits is equal to the number of electrons in the universe
mircea_popescu: "It annoys me that idiots continue to use "oh wow, that's so amazing" as the measure of creative genius. Or even worse, that they rely on society's direction to determine who is a creative genius and who isn't. First of all, creative geniuses are RESPECTED and LOOKED UP TO by society. And any position that is looked up to will be coveted by Narcissists who are driven by Glory, such as Richard Feynman who all his life w
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this discussion inspires me to the following ai standard : a computer that can distinguish code from data is rational.
poli_: Thanks again for the help Mircea, talk to yall later
asciilifeform: i meant the bro << ah i've no idea. found dead in a dark alley, iirc, but nothing publicly out afaik beyond that
mircea_popescu: rationality is, basically, the ability to distinguish homomorphisms from homologies.
mircea_popescu: "What is rationality? It's the ability to make life plans which reach your goals."
mircea_popescu: decimation i have the same impression.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i meant the bro.
asciilifeform: the 'flip' happened, iirc, some time in the early 2000s when his brother died of mysterious death
asciilifeform: at the time he actually was trying to scarf up all there was written re: ai, hoping to build something new
mircea_popescu: i've known many of these, they look like radiation. sooner or later start moving toward wall.
mircea_popescu: all sorts of fun could be had here. what if i get a simulation of me to impregnate the actual girl, and then i impregnate the simulation of her.
decimation: I take all of the above writing as evidence that the authors in question have never tried to create a real simulation on an actual computer
asciilifeform: wrote to him in the '90s while also a kid
asciilifeform: there was no interesting reply.
mircea_popescu: i suppose i got to ask lesswrong, they seem to know all sortsa shit about how shit that doesn't exist works.
mircea_popescu: (while the original's watching, of course)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what happens if i make two simulations of the same one slavegirl and order them both to fight to the death ?
asciilifeform: bitstein: my hard disk has the 2nd largest, i suspect.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform then it's done, no ?
poli_: personal opinion there
poli_: Plus, I didn't think the Roko's Basilisk scenario was all that likely.
bitstein: asciilifeform: is there an archive somewhere of her writing?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the idea is that the mega-ai appears and has, somehow (forget physics for a moment) a total record of all things
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=degen | A degen is one step above the dero or derelict in the scale of madness. Scozz Walker ... Gamblers consider other gamblers degens, but not themselves usually.
poli_: They got super spergy and fairly degen.
mircea_popescu: i don't get the argument tho, why is superai of the future influenced by ruminations of humans today
asciilifeform: bitstein: she was one of the more interesting folks i ever saw on the net. entirely vanished, long ago.
mircea_popescu: poli_ so do they keep attacking wikipedia to take it off ?
poli_: I figured you wouldn't be allowed to bet on overtly non-legal happenings. Thanks for the help Mircea
asciilifeform: 'is' (in their view) in the same way as the 'you' who goes to the toilet and then comes back 'is' you.
mircea_popescu: poli_ hit the search button, select politics and all bets, and see what the cat drags.
poli_: So burn all the records so people dont think of it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why would anyone care about some simulation << in mr y's world, the simulated organism -is- you
poli_: Well the idea is that Roko's basilisk
asciilifeform: but in all fairness i haven't pushed the knob on that account in years
poli_: But anyways, mine question. Would I be allowed to bet on the following question: President Poroshenko will cease to be president of the Ukraine within 4 months.
mircea_popescu: "Roko's basilisk is a thought experiment that assumes that an otherwise benevolent future artificial intelligence (AI) would torture the simulated selves of the people who did not help bring about the AI's existence. [...] The concept was proposed in 2010 by contributor Roko in a discussion on LessWrong. Yudkowsky deleted the posts regarding it and banned further discussion of Roko's basilisk on LessWrong after it had
asciilifeform: just told that 'the likes of you ain't welcom'
poli_: As in ask the question here?
asciilifeform: his forum housed the largest collection of people who showed symptoms of having a brain which i ever encountered prior to #b-a
trinque: asciilifeform: "the beautiful ones"
poli_: My own specialty is in politicaly analysis and I've been waiting for the chance to put my knowledge to good use.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm half convinced that yudkowsky's job is to tie up the brain cpu cycles of folks who could amount to something
mircea_popescu: decimation some other guy got a job as area supervisor of kfc, you know ? nothing wrong with it.
decimation: mircea_popescu: the problem is that he's been 'endowed', which means his new career is to pump this stuff out
mircea_popescu: way to let one's own wounded narcisism get hold of the whole cart.
asciilifeform: in his doctrine, it wasn't specified as something they would necessarily do to reproduce in the animal sense, but as a side-effect of operation
asciilifeform: from an illustration where a malevolent apparatus converts all of the matter in the universe into paperclips.
bitstein: asciilifeform:he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation << Roko's Basilisk at least frightened people enough for him to delete everything about it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LessWrong#Roko.27s_basilisk
mircea_popescu: wikipedia goes through an entire bio article without resolving her relationship to the max more dude.
asciilifeform: out of the remaining universe (how? ask him, not me)
asciilifeform: 'phoom' is, in his cosmology, the conflagration resulting from a 'non-friendly' (read: not designed under mr y's tutelage) thinking machine which sets to work improving and crafting copies of self
gribble: Natasha Vita-More on Whole Body Prosthetic - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LucitzhNQ8>; Bone Density on Vimeo: <https://vimeo.com/36305724>; Natasha Vita-More on Vimeo: <https://vimeo.com/natashavitamore>
asciilifeform: the vinge essay is pertinent to the 'phoom' (actual name, iirc, for the apocalypse mechanism mr y believes in)
mircea_popescu: apaprently the future is with bad lipstick and weirdo muslim headwear.
mircea_popescu: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/H%2B_Cover_1.jpg << "Cover of the first issue of h+ Magazine, a web-based quarterly publication that focuses on transhumanism."
mircea_popescu: i love these scientists that don't even bother putting magic numbers in the code anymore.
asciilifeform: betcha he croaked convinced to the hilt he'd be ancestor-simmed.
mircea_popescu: The concept of the technological singularity, or the ultra-rapid advent of superhuman intelligence, was first proposed by the British cryptologist I. J. Good in 1965: "Let an ultraintelligent machine be defined as a machine that can far surpass all the intellectual activities of any man however clever."
asciilifeform: they have... phaith!
mircea_popescu: must suck to be these people.
mircea_popescu: In the mid-1970s F.M. Esfandiary legally[5] changed his name to FM-2030 for two main reasons. Firstly, to reflect the hope and belief that he would live to celebrate his 100th birthday in 2030
decimation: asciilifeform: hey, they have a research program
asciilifeform: decimation: never mind that not one could describe the first thing about building a computer which does not barf regularly
decimation: but fear the great AI demon!
decimation: of course all of them would dismiss the YHWH worshipping Jews and Christians as credulous simpletons
mircea_popescu: check out the complexity. fucking fucktards already.
asciilifeform: vinge was (is?) a maths prof who went off the reservation and turned into a 3rd rate sf writer
mircea_popescu: "Extropy also attempts to describe the nature of the order, so a crystal , although highly ordered would have low extropy, but an organism or machine would have high extropy because of the informational structure contained within it. "
mircea_popescu: god im sick of fucktarded usians giving their name to random items.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the actual founding document of mr y's garbage is actually this: http://mindstalk.net/vinge/vinge-sing.html
mircea_popescu: "Extropy is a proposed opposing concept to entropy. As entropy decreases , signifying more order, so extropy would increase in the manner of negentropy."
mircea_popescu: ok, this im reading then
mircea_popescu: Founder of the Extropy Institute, Max More has written many articles espousing the philosophy of transhumanism and the transhumanist philosophy of extropy,[6] most importantly his Principles of Extropy (currently version 3.11)
asciilifeform: (as described in http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-rage-of-cultural-elites.html )
decimation: their produt is 'pay attention to meee'
asciilifeform: as seen elsewhere on the planet. cocksucking sycophants of the most degenerate imaginable kind
mircea_popescu: so like... being a playboy model without the tits ?
asciilifeform: ^ them.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck is max moore is what i wanna know
asciilifeform: he actually proclaimed a fatwa, since deleted (iirc) justifying the murder of anyone who might risk bringing about this situation
mircea_popescu: how do you abuse the eternal soul ?
trinque: asciilifeform: yudkowski even invented the beast or satan or w/e, that AI that resolves to abuse your eternal soul forever if you oppose it
mircea_popescu: "Influenced by seminal works of science fiction, the transhumanist vision of a transformed future humanity has attracted many supporters and detractors from a wide range of perspectives." aaahahahaha
mircea_popescu: basically this is scientology bahai ? do they speak esperanto ?
mircea_popescu: "This hypothesis would lay the intellectual groundwork for the British philosopher Max More to begin articulating the principles of transhumanism as a futurist philosophy in 1990 and organizing in California an intelligentsia that has since grown into the worldwide transhumanist movement."
asciilifeform: trinque: they have a literal version of this!
trinque: someday we will be caught up in the heavens with white robes, and our bodies will be purified
mircea_popescu: no but it's splendid. so they aspire to... names!
mircea_popescu: "The most common thesis put forward is that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label posthuman."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't understand how the world works. "nobody's using bitcoin, nobody could have foreseen their using a plane as a rocket and nobody's doing anything better nor anything better could exist than ... you know, raising awareness"
mircea_popescu: "This article is about the futurist ideology and movement. For the critique of humanism, see posthumanism. For the pattern of seasonal migration, see transhumance. For persons experiencing incongruence between their actual gender and the gender assigned to them at birth, see trans man, trans woman, and transgender." << best part imo.
asciilifeform: -zero- actual work on lickliderian or engelbartian 'intelligence amplification' concept from these bozos
asciilifeform: note that not even remotely true as printed on the crate
mircea_popescu: "Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities."
mircea_popescu: how the fuck does this work.
trinque: so happens the fan of bureaucracy was female
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mircea_popescu: for as long as bureaucracy = the slaves of peter, or julius, or w/e, that may well work.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the computer of meat approach may well explain why it sucks so bad since 1900s. not a bad heuristic.
trinque: I recall the self-licking ice cream cone metaphor
trinque: I can see the point; a space is declared within which rules and processes accumulate
decimation: voltaire, et al weren't exactly fans of the ancien regime
asciilifeform: one might even say: bureaucracy was the first computer
mircea_popescu: sorta like how wolves would make excellent guard dogs, if only they stopped going and killing all the sheep and stayed at the fucking door instead.
mircea_popescu: trinque bureaucracy has its uses. the problem is that the context it'd be useful in and the context in which it thrives are so wildly divorced.
decimation: mircea_popescu: but many of the folks in that wot ended up throwing derps into the woodchipper
trinque: I don't know much about rousseau, except that I recall him being mentioned by someone who was arguing bureaucracy was the greatest of all human inventions, and this with utter seriousness
mircea_popescu: (the Dictionnaire raisonne des sciences, des arts, et des metiers. was essentially a b-a of the time fork of human knowledge of the time. it was wildly successful in spite of being mostly wrong)
mircea_popescu: god isn't the first warrior anymore, which all other warriors owe fealty too, god is now the first contract which all contracts are derived fro
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 02:38:35; trinque: PeterL: I was looking for a definition of the phrase
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1058937 << rousseauism, when confronted with "well if the state isn't god's successor, why would anyone listen to it" he came up with a weirdo translation of god in burgeois terms.
mircea_popescu: markov how, all the dude was talking about before were genius biznis ideas and stuff.
mod6: yeah, and .01337498 and a bunch of other small amounts
mircea_popescu: neways, five cents here, a cent there etc
decimation: look under the 'security groups' column in your instance
trinque: mod6: note you can open it only for another security group
decimation: mod6: you gotta turn off the firewall in aws/ec2
trinque: Luke-Jr: yep, gotta enable things in the security group
mircea_popescu: how the fuck does this work.
cazalla: n3xtb1gthng, if people willingly accept my worthless dollars, i would be foolish to give them something of actual value eh
brendafdez: <Luke-Jr> if there is a nominal inflation that is automatic (beyond the very low percentage caused by mining) that would incentivize spending, and since people want to spend it, adoption (people will accept it). << sounds like keynesian braindamage
n3xtb1gthng: If someone isn't receiving hundreds of bitcoins per day from any other source, how do you know they will accept yours? And if you don't know they will accept yours, how do you know that you hold money? adoption = acceptance and usage
trinque: PeterL: I was looking for a definition of the phrase
PeterL: trinque: the "social contract" of bitcoin is the "spec" as laid out by satoshi in the white paper
n3xtb1gthng: cazalla - I mean if you didn't want the possibility of spending it, how is it even money? It's only money because you know people will accept it :) :) And that comes from the fact that they accept everyone else's - i.e. high adoption.
mircea_popescu: like some other monkeys have done.
mircea_popescu: <n3xtb1gthng> is there a philosophical reaosn you don't build some level of seigniorage into bitcoin? (as some alt's have)? << about the same sort of philosophical reason as not building a tail into you.
n3xtb1gthng: cazalla you can both spend money and get money? The definition of a 'currency' is just a unit you do this in?
cazalla: oh look n3xtb1gthng is yet another person suggesting i spend my money, gtfo
n3xtb1gthng: danielpbarron, I disagree. if twenty people are trading seashells at a rate of twenty trades happen per day, that is high adotpion. at the rate of 1 seashell gets traded per year, that is low adotpion. adoption = spending.
Luke-Jr: n3xtb1gthng: such a thing would violate the social contract; altcoins don't have a preexisting social contract to adhere to
n3xtb1gthng: Luke-Jr, I mean if there is a nominal inflation that is automatic (beyond the very low percentage caused by mining) that would incentivize spending, and since people want to spend it, adoption (people will accept it).
n3xtb1gthng: is there a philosophical reaosn you don't build some level of seigniorage into bitcoin? (as some alt's have)?
brendafdez: BingoBoingo I'm available, too. Not sure about the 'good' part, though.
mod6: o.O how is it syncing blocks then?
BingoBoingo: n3xtb1gthng: Well, a bitcoind build that is bigendian friendly for PPC, SPARC, and 68000 would be the tits
mod6: <+Luke-Jr> asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the 0.5.3.1 fork. << not true. i'm using it.
mircea_popescu: especially seeing how the ~60 or so nodes left running are really not enough for 2012.
asciilifeform: 'youre not going to find a cable poking up in the loo of a data centre when it reaches its destination.' << at one point there was a vendor who pushed a 'robotic rat' for doing precisely this
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 got tons more of thems. << hmm?
mircea_popescu: prolly what the crews called it since forever.
asciilifeform likes the term 'brown fiber' used in this article, wonders if actual extant term of art or neologism
assbot: Dark Fibre: Reg man plunges into London's sewers to see how pipe is laid • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/18Ndjw9 )
asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/01/26/feature_zayo_fibre_network_in_london_sewers << vintage but stimulating
mircea_popescu: to no-one's surprise except i guess a coupla code monkeys here and there who really bought the "doocracy" koolaid.
mircea_popescu: the bitcoin rules are defined by what important people use, and as it happens gavin & co are unimportant.
mircea_popescu: if that were the actual criteria, then "bitcoin" would be green and printed on paper.
brendafdez: Oh, that's sad, I though I knew eho they'd just hired to look for them. "Yeah I suppose the sad story in here is that if you show supposedly literate teenagers the insides of a USB stick they may be seeing it for the first time, and if you demand they point out the actual memory cores to save their lives they may well not be able to." http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/#comment-95546
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 01:16:20; Luke-Jr: asciilifeform: Bitcoin's rules are defined by what people use. Nobody is using the 0.5.3.1 fork.