bitstein: mircea_popescu: b is an important point, thanks. As for old rather than current ratings, that's where shasums and deedbot could come in to help.
mircea_popescu: note that changing this model for "maintain signed ratings" does not help : either of them could show OLD rather than current ratings, which would still be undetectable.
mircea_popescu: as pere the entire "wot is not an oilfield with trust as oil".
mircea_popescu: bitstein this is true for both of them, currently. this happens to also not be a problem because a) they could do this once ; and b) the way you're supposed to use this tool is by asking the raters about their ratings.
bitstein: mircea_popescu: I am under the impression that if they wanted to, kako or nano could publish ratings under any name as they please. Is this correct? If so, how can someone viewing the WoT db have certainty that information they see is as the rater intended? GPG signing would be one solution.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony im sure it's so totally going to work like all the previous attempts did, which is why we're here.
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 16:05:03; thestringpuller: when did businessinsider become gawker?
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065236 << once they couldn't find anything but the same social studies rejects to "write"
mircea_popescu: these are artists.
mircea_popescu: lol at the fluffypony businessoutsider link. EXCITING! may become the new AMAZING, as a new generation of idiots moves into bitcoin scam pushing.
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 15:28:39; nubbins`: (how? because the yellow tank contains black ink!)
mircea_popescu: well lets start by you stating the problem ?
bitstein: mircea_popescu: assbot model is much improved over gribble model. there's no more sessions, so you're mostly battling with a solved problem there. << doing an auth for each request is definitely an improvement, but can you elaborate on how that solves the problem?
mircea_popescu: i suppose i might be the only techno-enabled sociopath that disassembled misbehaving hardware/software and let them do X for a while, by themselves, in the dark.
mircea_popescu: and the user's reaction is anything but getting a 28 inch dropforged wrench and beating it into a pulp. without grease. ?
mircea_popescu: ahahaha who the fuck came up with this shit. seriously, photoshop "Refuses to open" somethng ?
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 15:07:09; Adlai: this is a good point... even if each wot rating is signed, this can be a false friend - what if you're not looking at the latest version of the ratings? if only we had some way of achieving trust-minimized consensus...
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065154 << consensus is undesirable. but actually, as implemented, assbot does work perfectly for the purpose(s).
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 14:45:54; funkenstein_: that's right "the gold market" is a single entity which works towards being "less manipulated".
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 14:25:35; thestringpuller: its up to kako if he wants to support it with asswot
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065107 << no dood, the situation's exactly reversed here. assbot fixed some problems, it's up to nanotube to support it in gribble, which he said he was going to eventually do.
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 14:22:44; bitstein: That just allows the server to know it is talking to who it thinks it is talking to, but it doesn't guarantee the server hasn't fabricated data.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065100 << assbot model is much improved over gribble model. there's no more sessions, so you're mostly battling with a solved problem there.
mircea_popescu: not like people can't do that if they wish, via deedbot.
mircea_popescu: jurov so the question was more "why does assbot not implement the drawbacks to privacy of a strong crypto verification scheme" ?
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 14:22:40; Adlai: and trusting that people don't leave authenticated irc accounts idle accessible to random passersby
jurov: does assbot store the !v verification string?
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 14:21:16; bitstein: Is there a reason WoT ratings are not required to be GPG signed?
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 21:31:49; BingoBoingo: Bitcoind (and a number of the other 'wallets') grind balances to dust over time.
mircea_popescu: at which the leader goes "Yo! Alifie! come over we got one."
mircea_popescu: so the guy eventually decides to go with.
mircea_popescu: listen dude, you're getting fucked whbether you want to or not. it's a fact. the only questrion to you is, if you want to do it with alifie or without.
mircea_popescu: they struggle a little, he's taken to the ground, at which point the leader of the pack goes
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: too late alfie. << ahahhhahaha. The nickname is sticking!
mircea_popescu: dun worry sir whiteknight, b-a brings the best out in everyone.
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 13:45:09; nubbins`: (given that free advice can only cost $0, the set of possible costs for said free advice is a zero ring, which precludes the set from being a field, which means that division by zero is not required to be undefined, which means that your assertion that it's infinitely more valuable is, at least superficially, true)
ascii_field: meaning, roughly speaking, the set of conventions re: what the heroes look like, what they do, etc.
mircea_popescu: not there.
ascii_field: i often wonder where the 'kabuki' of modern western porn came from
ascii_field: they can be $age in your head
ascii_field: this is the nice thing re: dead folks
mircea_popescu: noether was born in 82, yo!
ascii_field: https://www.google.com/doodles/emmy-noethers-133rd-birthday << l0l that google remembered this actually interesting figure and not some wanker
mircea_popescu waves @ Patrick Merck, who realised all this shit too late and ran off through the wall.
mircea_popescu: because whatever, i'm going to hang them anyway, and usg isn't going to hang them no matter what, so that leaves a space in the middle.
mircea_popescu: which pretty much brings us to 2014, when the thing became too expensive to be useful, so it had to run out of usg jurisdiction (went to uk)
mircea_popescu: except no worthy goals were willing to work with them, and so moved to "default worthy goal" = pay gavin a salary.
mircea_popescu: but no, the two got merged late. originally, foundation was transparent scam to syphon and repurpose bitcoins to prop up "vc entreprises".
mircea_popescu: well perhaps the discussion of which lice spawned what scorpion is not directly interesting to engineers, being more in the vein of politics and law. so i guess you actually have a fine aproximation.
ascii_field: so then.
mircea_popescu: anyway, gavin showed up pretty quick o nthe original lists. to no one's suprirse, nsa does read the stuff, as amply documented.
mircea_popescu: which will be buried too, but... still. you don't kill ticks by breaking the bellies.
mircea_popescu: fake foundation's just a pressed shitbullet, they made it, getting rid of it won't get rid of the problem.
ascii_field: having contradictory data, assumed the worst.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i formed this impression because i do not know the actual truth of the extent of collaboration between gavin et al and satoshi pre-phoundation
mircea_popescu: you for some reason seem to think scam foundation and bitcoin are cogenerational. this is about as true as saying you and your mom were born the same week
ascii_field: 'wouldn't want to link the coins you got from bin laden to the ones you got from george bush, when you go spend'em'
ascii_field: likewise most of the folks here have read enough of it to see how this might be
ascii_field believes when mircea_popescu says that it -will- explode if used as printed on the crate
mircea_popescu: or, closer to what you want, "then send it all to one address". see with own eyes.
mircea_popescu: this is the golden standard for testing txn generators.
mircea_popescu: then see what you can spend and what you can't.
mircea_popescu: (split it to three addresses, then feed one by two for a while)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field anyway, if you're curious, do a braid on a bitcoin then see what happens.
mircea_popescu: (honestly i've not really looked what they've been doing with it since 7ish)
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ascii_field not only that. the txn making is dust-agnostic. instead of optimizing to not create too small chunks, it just does whatever. << aggressively whatever. semi random selection of outputs, iirc.
ascii_field: and a few others
mircea_popescu: they're all fucking experts.
ascii_field: i mean to say, they are actually obvious to anyone who stayed awake in junior 'algorithms'
mircea_popescu: the hard problems of bitcoin are still untouched since six yyears ago when satoshi saw them and ran screaming.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the fucktards are busy "innovating" bullshit.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field not only that. the txn making is dust-agnostic. instead of optimizing to not create too small chunks, it just does whatever.
ascii_field: who the hell has wallet full of nanodust also
ascii_field: then - yes
ascii_field: he is also stuck with the knapsack
mircea_popescu: rather than this sort of stuff. it's about 100x easier, given the sad state of bitcoind
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's a reason wallet theft consisted of stealing the (plaintext) wallet file
ascii_field: theoretically a knapsack problem, yes
mircea_popescu: in the fucking wallet.
ascii_field: where's the np ?
ascii_field: creates a legit tx using the luser's own client
ascii_field: doesn't send the file
ascii_field: notice how much good the wallet crypto does him.
ben_vulpes: i've always assumed that if someone got access to the machine while hot, the coins were gone regardless.
mircea_popescu: including... the disk.
mircea_popescu: if wallet is encrypted in useralnd, then it's read by gpg
mircea_popescu: look, you're spewing nonsense. think in simple terms : if wallet is encrypted by program using it, then it can be read by program using it, and kernel.
ben_vulpes: its really the only sane model.
mircea_popescu: because they ALSO didnt see why it's so bad
mircea_popescu: (and i'm not entirely sure that encryption's worth jack shit, by the way, if someone feels like reading it)
mircea_popescu: (mp fondly remembers how he's one of the... one guy that hit the power rangers over the head until they finally put encryption into wallets. which, prior to mid 2012, were plaintext)
mircea_popescu: it's a total fucking pain when stuff like, payout of the bfl bitbet happens
ben_vulpes: that's deeeeeeep in the transaction creation code iirc.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i was talking more in terms of how it's supposed to go. i'm aware the current pos is a pos.
mircea_popescu waits patiently for the vc funded, world changing "start-up" predicated on having read the above lines in the log.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: measure the txn bytes/minute you receive from them << won't work for 0.5.3 as presently exists. bastard blocks -get transmitted- before rejected
mircea_popescu: problem solves itself. whether they duplicate or not is a byproduct : competition, economical.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the only reasonable way to go about it is, pretend the other nodes are your employees. measure the txn bytes/minute you receive from them, give points.
ben_vulpes: perhaps to reduce bw waste, randomly ask for n-plicate copies of blocks from other nodes?
ascii_field: i'll sum it up here. 1) sane node -always, without exception- connects to as many wot nodes as are up 2) then possibly connects to others from cache
brendafdez: re: Businesscards. I found a QR code with a BTC address, and now, also the GPG fingerprint, provide a good excuse to hand it out without sounding like you're forcing them. "Where do I send the btc?" --"Here!" (:
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and the "introduce scoring for peers, shitlist least performing for x interval" idea from earlier, same thread.
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 06:45:26; mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> something tells me that block downloading and peer selection is an important thing to look at in the next few arbitrary time units. << that something is athena riding a flaming shield.
mircea_popescu: yeah the node connections sorter is really high up on the list of fixes. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=30-01-2015#998341 etc
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller nah, i write my own drivers. in vi.
mircea_popescu: " So let's take a closer look at the program - it's a .NET 2.0 executable and can be completely decompiled with dotPeek into a set of Visual Studio solutions."
mircea_popescu: While investigating this rather innocuous looking program I discovered that it accepts commands by listening for HTTP requests on localhost:8884 and that the security restrictions Dell put in place are easily bypassed, meaning an attacker could trigger the program to download and install any arbitrary executable from a remote location with no user interaction at all.
ascii_field: 'While investigating this rather innocuous looking program I discovered that it accepts commands by listening for HTTP requests on localhost:8884 and that the security restrictions Dell put in place are easily bypassed, meaning an attacker could trigger the program to download and install any arbitrary executable from a remote location with no user interaction at all.'
assbot: Dell System Detect RCE vulnerability | Tom's corner of the internet ... ( http://bit.ly/1HsqSfZ )
mircea_popescu: louis c k is givving the snotty brat way too much control over her environment.
mircea_popescu: that also. but i just mean know, not necessarily act, to give them a chance.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: aite, the Mars thing has been out for a while. I'll keep looking for the next one.
mircea_popescu: but the next one, if it ever happens.
mircea_popescu: and if neobee/primeasic/whatever is bitcoin news, so is the exactly identially executed, designed and manned "mars project"
mircea_popescu: in the words of the great jukov, "the fact that the americans won that battle by sheer accident doesn't mean we shouldn't win the same way deliberately"
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah, well... that's a good point. in honesty so is gawker, but anyway. the distinction between one model and the other blurs.
thestringpuller: since he only puts them on government owned things
mircea_popescu: the only thing missing'd have been, kid frowning and in very bussins voice
mircea_popescu: she knows, for instance, that one of the first things kids babblingly ask is why is the sky blue ?
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, funny story. friend with small baby, intelligent woman, actual engineer, the works.
mircea_popescu: the regulator of intensity.
mircea_popescu: so basically we could say "another copacetic union ruined by trilema" ?
mircea_popescu: this was the soviet argument in the 20s. their "artistry" fizzled, and really, 10 years out of 70 ?
mircea_popescu: trinque btw, the "artists of socialism" nonsense is just so much bunk, and thorouighly debunked.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu> cazalla just for the record, on my wishlist-of-things-way-far-out-of-reach, stuff which like hooft says, i'll be happy to get in a 100 years : i'd totally love it if qntra did what medium does, and is correct in doing : chase these social justice idiocies, get insiders to spill the beans. << Medium is just some twitter founder's take on blogger. It only holds writing from the people who choose to blog there for fre
trinque: mircea_popescu: there was plenty more a sober me decided not to put in the permanent record
punkman: work doesn't pay much either for most folks
nubbins`: whoteknighting = showing people the mirror?
mircea_popescu: but, the fact that chick can get him that worked up over nothing bodes well for teh twu wuv factor involved :D
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-03-2015#1065063 << nah, seems much flatter a power struggle than that. they're just bickering over the remote.
mircea_popescu: mats : "Comment by Massimiliano Torromeo (mtorromeo) - Friday, 05 April 2013, 12:07 GMT This package is not a dependency of any other package. It also needs to be explicitly installed AND started/enabled so after installation the system is not any less secure."
mircea_popescu: ^ check out the bfl/anon asic scammer verbiage.
mircea_popescu: And as far as the delays are concerned, he says, is it really a failure if we land our first crew two, four, six, or even eight years late?
mircea_popescu: the projects will multiply, as time goes by, for the obvious economic reasons. the lulz will increase. lulz must be mined!
mircea_popescu: cazalla just for the record, on my wishlist-of-things-way-far-out-of-reach, stuff which like hooft says, i'll be happy to get in a 100 years : i'd totally love it if qntra did what medium does, and is correct in doing : chase these social justice idiocies, get insiders to spill the beans.
mircea_popescu: dude wtf... srsly, 6bn ? like, three derps got together and went, "hey, this IDEA is totally worth one hundred thousand new cars" ?
mircea_popescu: There are other bad signs for Mars One. The organizations contract with production company Endemol is no longer in place; Mars One was hoping to generate $6 billion from a reality show.
wsbtc: The more I read that page, the more I realize I didn't know nearly as much about Bitcoin as I though I did.
mircea_popescu: when you're a scammer you gotta be very careful with your time. keeping above water quite the challenge.
ascii_field waits for the inevitable 'but of course anyone who would go in for this is so gullible god himself put him upon this earth to be fleeced, by us preferably' retort from the m4rssc4mz0r
mircea_popescu: After filling out an application (mostly out of curiosity), former NASA researcher Joseph Roche, now of Trinity College, became one of 100 finalists to live in permanent settlement on Mars. In his interview with Elmo Keep for Medium, Roche expressed many concerns, ranging from inaccurate media coverage (there were only 2,761 applicants, not 200,000) to Mars Ones psychological or psychometric testing (or lack thereof
ascii_field was about to say 'everyone's honest after losing' but then remembered the tales of phorum sc4mz0rz who transition to shills, etc
wsbtc: Hi, I'm here to learn more about bitcoin and I understand that this is the place to do it. Where should I begin?
nubbins`: BingoBoingo either that was already pasted here, or something else strange is going on
nubbins`: what i should've said was "there's a word for something else, it escapes me"
ascii_field: skeumorph -does something- like what the thing it imitates did
nubbins`: yes, you're getting there
nubbins`: *:ascii_field not enamoured of toys which look like functional things but aren't <<< there's a word for this, it escapes me
nubbins`: picture a sparkfun but with "stan" written on the bottom
nubbins`: lay the traces in gold ink, flood a mask of semi-transparent green/red/blue/w/e on top
nubbins`: oh, i'm thinking silkscreening the design on paper
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> maybe apply the "photocopy" filter to the rabbit image and use as logo << probably would work cleaner as lineart bunny
nubbins`: am i allowed to ask for them yet? 8)
nubbins`: BingoBoingo you'll find this is one of the great divides of people the world over: white background vs black
nubbins`: say, any PCB layouts from the cardano project approaching 3.5x2" in size?
cazalla: as for ads, i've wanted to run them for a while, but credible advertisers are lacking
nubbins`: anyway, a good next step would be for people who intend to receive these cards to put some thought into what info they'd like on them, as well as a general idea of how they'd prefer them to look
nubbins`: cazalla that's because you're not a small business owner dealing with other small business owners
cazalla: i can't think of anything more obnoxious than someone giving you their business card, it's pretty much them saying, "here, you're obligated to put this either in your bidness card holder or the bin", perhaps i don't have the sophistication to appreciate bidness cards like ol' buffett (or whoever it is that collects em like baseball cards) but whatevs
cazalla: nubbins`, that's ugly imo, we don't use @qntra.net for email, but more importantly i am not fussed on this idea of bidness cards, so best to ask the others for input
nubbins`: danielpbarron dory mothered three kittens and was found with them, abandoned, in an empty apartment
nubbins`: tempting, maybe once there's no more shelter cats 8)
ascii_field: i imagine that i wouldn't want to be tamed if i were them
ascii_field: people find it puzzling but it is kinda the reason i don't try to tame them and keep them inside
ascii_field: where the beasts can afford to be picky
nubbins`: dish of it on the back step is a good way to attract em
nubbins`: protip: if you eat canned tuna, save the water
ascii_field: the smaller one, i think, lives under my shed
ascii_field: gigantic semi-wild but castrated male cat, grooming - and then guarding - a smaller cat
nubbins`: today, as i'm watching them eat supper, older cat tires of her food and just starts eating from younger cat's dish; younger cat retreats and waits for her turn :0
thestringpuller: ascii_field: well they ended up not revealing the secret ingredient cause slurm is so delicious...
ascii_field: 'umpa, dumpa, dupaty-didient, thou shalt not ask about the Secret Ingredient!'
gribble: Slurm - Futurama Wiki, the Futurama database: <http://futurama.wikia.com/wiki/Slurm>; Fry and the Slurm Factory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fry_and_the_Slurm_Factory>; Slurm Factory Tour - Video Clip | Comedy Central: <http://www.cc.com/video-clips/xqmqta/futurama-slurm-factory-tour>
nubbins`: and i mean like fistfuls of skin and fat blended w/ the meat, pushed through sieve, whole deal
nubbins`: tv;dw: kids are shown raw truth of chicken nuggets being made from scratch, right in front of them, "EWW GROSSS" etc, then all clamor over each other to eat the fried result
assbot: As a reminder, you'd have to hack into my Windows 8.1 desktop behind NAT to get my ssh key & use the right IP to access my AWS hosts.
nubbins`: noticed, but they were a familiar shape.
nubbins`: this is "cut up my chicken nuggets AND chew them for me" level
nubbins`: maybe so, didn't fully parse. guy does say later on that he can't figure out how to work the jar
ascii_field: i though the 'jar' was just a turd that loads from blockchain.info
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Retarded scanning all the private keys possibru idear
ascii_field: 'the goal or problem is not stinking of shit, without having to use a toilet, without having to wear diapers, just plain and simple not stinking of shit'
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 08:38:53; mircea_popescu: maybe he should put them in excel.
assbot: Logged on 23-03-2015 08:38:46; mircea_popescu: "The goal or problem is checking the balance of a ton of addresses without having to import them with keys without having to run a linux machine, without having to run anything in python, just plain and simple copy a list of addresses"
nubbins`: (they won't hold your dime forever!)
nubbins`: ascii_field after a few pestering PMs, changetip returned the money to its original owner
thestringpuller: wtf, #4 changetip? how is throwing change at each other like hobos noteworthy?
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/ethereum/serpent/commit/f509f4d#diff-3d8daf295c9ed9c3fd9f9d9113dd24cfR2 << hyuuuu
ascii_field: trinque: why sinfully? curious about the story
ascii_field: at any rate, i assumed that the ads thing was neither fun nor threatened to replace ben_vulpes's day job
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Author urls might be overloading the card with too much information
funkenstein_: in the meantime you could put a donation address up
PeterL: I thought ben_vulpes only stopped because too busy with other stuff?
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Committing to no ads in print potentially means committing to no Ads forever. We'll say what cazalla says, but 'No Milk' or other joke may be longer lasting
PeterL: asciilifeform:aviation, by and large, only works when you're a mega-state with maxint constantly replaced slaves to parasitise << depends if you are going for "go up in the air", or "survive dogfight with megastate"
nubbins`: someone with an actual connection to qntra can feel free to provide different copy if they wish
ascii_field: Adlai: diddling a single routine to always return false << only if the implementers were morons
nubbins`: i just took that from the "about" page
Adlai doesn't understand why warez doodz don't excise the pattern detectors from eg photoshop
ascii_field: and before anyone says 'nuttery' - there is precedent
jurov: let them try to autodetect "illegal content"
PeterL: but I wouldn't notice the denver massacre if it was happening around me while I am watching a movie
ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> presently the cheapest way to fight back is to extract the 'magic' algorithms and make sure the patterns start to appear in inconvenient places << oh this is bril
Adlai: otoh, the movie theater proprietor who jams cellphone signals during screenings can marry my firstborn daughter
ascii_field: ostensibly for movie theatres
ascii_field: for instance, there is talk of mandating that digital cameras obey a magic remote off signal
ascii_field: presently the cheapest way to fight back is to extract the 'magic' algorithms and make sure the patterns start to appear in inconvenient places
ascii_field: the basic idea - owner-hostile hardware - is gaining ground.
ascii_field: danielpbarron: well the illegal image opens fine in GIMP << only half the story. before long, it won't print on printer, or even display on display.