asciilifeform: (there is no private industry, in the traditional sense, in usg-dom. nothing larger than a hotdog stand, certainly.)
decimation: "U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), a division of U.S. Homeland Security, said it would pull the plug on its 17,600 employee BlackBerrys and favor iPhones instead. The deal, according to a "solicitation" document, would be worth $2.1 million — to the U.S. taxpayer, at least."
decimation: lol even apple plays the game http://www.zdnet.com/article/ios-6-granted-fips-140-2-approved-for-u-s-government-use/
asciilifeform: see the case of the 'drone' pinched in iran, which was gps-spoofable because crypto was omitted entirely
asciilifeform: exceptions free for the asking for 'favourite sons' of course
asciilifeform: the tests are a chump tax charged on folks peddling turdware to usg and friends
decimation: $19.95 I'm getting more comprehensive algorithm testing than I can for a five-figure sum with the FIPS algorithm tests."
decimation: "Compare this to the example I gave earlier of performing a TLS exchange with Amazon. This performs an in-depth test of all the crypto algorithms (corresponding to the FIPS algorithm tests, including ones that FIPS ignores), and the crypto mechanisms (many/most of which FIPS again ignores). In other words simply by connecting to Amazon using TLS and ordering a "Scrubs" DVD for
asciilifeform: were always in the hole.
decimation: but as long as 'we' are maintaining someone else's code it's pretty much inevitible to fall into the hole
asciilifeform: which is why that human turd jon callas kept going on and on about how 'real security patches, even against user's will, because updates are the most important thing in security'
decimation: If you look at how redhat 'maintains' a baseline of code, you find that they pile up patches as shit breaks
BingoBoingo: I suggest this not as a solution to the OpenSSL turdation and version hell, but as a way to identify which parts of OpenSSL turdify unforgivably
ben_vulpes: "does the sub fly if i tape this jet engine to it?"
ben_vulpes: join the glorious open source archaelogy project of #bitcoin-assets
asciilifeform: Motherfuckers.
decimation: yeah that's the lion's share of it
asciilifeform: the ancestral 'strace' works for me
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150128/asciilifeform-porta-tronic_67d6162e1cc78b3a6aca584e2123e59fdee189f6.patch
ben_vulpes: which was the integer patch again?
asciilifeform: well, all the accepted patches plus my unaccepted integer fix patch (not today's, but the earlier one in portatron)
asciilifeform: not from the old crap
asciilifeform: but there is a Release !
asciilifeform: i actually sat down that time to properly fix the bastard blocks thing
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but you are running ahead of the class even here.
ben_vulpes: (is it in the set of whatever whatever)
asciilifeform: ^ all the detail you could ever wish for.
gribble: Ravenscar profile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ravenscar_profile>; Guide for the use of the Ada Ravenscar Profile in high ... - SIGAda: <http://www.sigada.org/ada_letters/jun2004/ravenscar_article.pdf>; The SPARK Ravenscar Profile - AdaCore: <http://docs.adacore.com/sparkdocs-docs/Examiner_Ravenscar.htm>
asciilifeform: the comforts of home.
BingoBoingo was going to pick up an UltraSparc box this month, but the Chimp in Chief has forced a revision of all my budget priorities
asciilifeform: (when i do the thing that requires the ada, it won't be happening on openbsd. or gentoo)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (assuming ordinary gcc still builds there!) << It seems they use a... modified GCC
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'll add that on the 5.7 release to do list
asciilifeform: (assuming ordinary gcc still builds there!)
BingoBoingo: I had to replace the wifi card in this machine at a cost of $25, but that was not a dealbreaker. It's the other weird that prevents wholesale recommendation. It to asciilifeform's disappoint lacks an Ada
decimation: but that's a function of their focus
BingoBoingo: OpenBSD has been nice to me, but weird compared to linux and as a point that displeases MP poor fundraiser Bob Beck is in their WoT
decimation: although I agree with folks who assert that redhat is gov't influenced, I also think that there is something to the idea of freezing a baseline and keeping it stable
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: without a full deturding of a stack there likely can not be a single one blessed OS
ben_vulpes: so what *is* the #b-a sanctioned os?
BingoBoingo: Oppenheimer himself was enough of a hippy to go on the "bad" list
decimation: "But enough of such simplicities, let us now turn our attention to the real headscratcher. The source of that drum was Los Alamos, which is largely – but by no means exclusively – a nuclear weapons lab. And we have someone there who apparently preferentially purchases organically. A"
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-definitive-sovereign/
assbot: Nuclear waste spill: How a pro-organic push sparked $240m blunder • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1CyZCLJ )
BingoBoingo: <decimation> but apparently nobody gives a shit, like the open ntp ddos amplifiers << Software names make this shit weird because there was ntpd which had this problem and openntpd which to my knowledge didn't
mircea_popescu: which then inspires idiocy in stuff like wordpress. "hey, open ddos amplification is industry standard!!11"
decimation: but apparently nobody gives a shit, like the open ntp ddos amplifiers
decimation: yes, the traditional glibc/dns client shit is quite turdly
decimation: I gather the warning means that it will probably work on the system on which it is built but if you move it to a different system (the binary) you might not be able to resolve dns properly
decimation: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2725255/create-statically-linked-binary-that-uses-getaddrinfo <glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration.
mircea_popescu: "/home/stas/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/ourlibs/include/boost/asio/detail/impl/socket_ops.ipp:2900: warning: Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is no escape from this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ultimately we audit the bins
asciilifeform: note that it died a mostly silent death, buried beneath a torrent of barf from other compiles
mircea_popescu: in general this is the golden pill to defeat "general purpose" poisoned compiler, that auto-pulls the magic diddled dependency : put a x = "hash" in the code, compile, see if it included it.
asciilifeform: then objdump.
mircea_popescu: the only reasonable way to go forward at this point would be a) edit the source of the ssl we intend to use to include a magic string ; b) make ; c) strings on the binary.
decimation: dynamic libraries are the depressing result of the c-machine's sad attempt to have a global namespace
asciilifeform: but not the whole thing.
asciilifeform: this is the auto.sh build.
asciilifeform: this is the static build, remember!
asciilifeform: after the words 'Let's try that build again:'
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> which is one of the penalties for going static << The most important part of a turkey sandwich is the ham
mod6: yeah i get nothing from these: root@debian-test:~/release-test/bitcoin-v0_5_3_1/bitcoin/src# readelf -a bitcoind | grep -i ssl
asciilifeform: the only way to know what's in a static build is a disassembler, a stead hand, a thermos of coffee, and some familiarity with the constituent parts
asciilifeform: which is one of the penalties for going static
ben_vulpes: the version of openssl you and alf found to not wedge bitcoind?
ben_vulpes: isn't that the release date of 1.0.1g?
mod6: alf might know. i bet it's the wrong goddamn one
mod6: 'OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7' << is probably referring to the output seen here: OpenSSL 1.0.1g 7 Apr 2014
ben_vulpes: mod6: how does that dpaste indicate the system ssl?
mod6: obviously, i don't have a clue as to what's going on there.
mod6: so if that's not working as expected, I (we) need help getting the makefile in order so that it does this correctly & the auto.sh script if that's part of the problem also.
assbot: Pushing the soft tender flesh of a friend against the sharp rotating blades of the immutable machine. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DqoKb6 )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine/ found for later.
mircea_popescu: mothefucker. the two results lead to... referneces, without actual link, of the original.
mod6: my deb machine was installed in december, but maybe the system wide OpenSSL 1.0.1g was upgraded in feb. The version the system wide gives me is April 7 2014. The xxd output looks like its indicating the one from the system.
asciilifeform: and i don't -want- them trimmed
asciilifeform: and then i put it in a tarball and signed
asciilifeform: motherfucker
mod6: fair assessment. i thought the same thing at first, and even had all the libs on our site. then started thinking conversely about it.
mircea_popescu: the reason i proposed that is because i have no doubt the "originators" will sooner or later run away with the code.
mod6: so that's why that isthe way it is.
mod6: someone also mentioned that we (the bitcoin foundation) should host the openssl, bdb, and boost libs on our website for dl. i decided against that as i like someone to feel like they're getting a copy from the originator. (this is from yesterday)
mircea_popescu: this is the contemplated policy going forward.
mircea_popescu: i am happy to announce that for the fy 2014 serenissima ran a whopping 5798796857967496834% deficit
mod6: (the virtualbox one, in particular.)
mircea_popescu: unless there's a magic one ?
mircea_popescu: so it wouldn't have an openssl other than what auto.sh makes
mircea_popescu: NewLiberty never heard of the site, so...
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2015#1083060 << yeah there's no mistake there.
assbot: Yanis Varoufakis: "Greece to Adopt the Bitcoin If Eurogroup Doesn't Give Us a Deal" | GreekReporter.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1G5NtSo )
NewLiberty: April fools, or no? http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/04/01/yanis-varoufakis-greece-will-adopt-the-bitcoin-if-eurogroup-doesnt-give-us-a-deal/
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> the idea is, for someone wanting to copy your environment, to be able to do so with minimal work << i think going forward this is the only thing we'll support/build from/work on, something that we agree is "good"
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2015#1083026 << is this something along the lines of "nothing bad can happen to me im a nice person minding my own biznis" ?
mod6: <+ascii_field> has any of you lot checked to see that the executable resulting from this build ACTUALL contains the openssl built by auto.sh ? << i never did, this could be a problem too
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's the peculiarities of said boxes ?
mircea_popescu: if that were the criteria...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the recipe consists of attempting to build it on either of my boxes after patched to fix the integer thing
asciilifeform: it is nothing new to the veteran turd-shoveler.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, ever published the recipe to obtain that "statically linked is not statically linked" error ?
mircea_popescu: the only way to find out is to hammer the things that worked until we know why the fuck they worked.
mircea_popescu: the undocumented unprincipled exception is something entirely different.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why i'd kinda like to get to the bottom of this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the issues cut deeper than gcc. we are dealing with what ilkka kokkarinen called 'unprincipled exception', where something is allowed to stay broken because fixing it would break 10,000 other things.
mircea_popescu: mod6 what i'm saying is, this stuff would not reasonably be expected by you, nor is it a function of the project.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 no, actually, there's no way to have these issues INTO GCC!!! << here. what?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rms is long in the tooth, old, and endlessly hammered by clean-shaven fools who don't eat 'toe jam' and spit in his face
asciilifeform lays off the poor ^ key
mod6: i think, maybe im not the right guy for this. or at minimum, I need someone who can look over my shoulder on this. there's no way we should have these issues 5 months into a project.
mircea_popescu: by now we have a family of these monsters, which is very worrisome,.
mircea_popescu: and their joint horrible twin sister being, "hey, turns out so called static builds aren't even static"
mircea_popescu: its mother is, "what else is your compiler putting in you don't know about"
mod6: no good answers there.
mircea_popescu: mod6 the question is : why has your compiler not complained about an undefined symbol
mod6: mircea_popescu: nope. none. my deb6 environments (yes more than one) all compiled it fine with gcc 4.4.5. i didn't have problems on gentoo either fwiw. but not sure what the gentoo AMI had for a compiler. my guess is that I was fooled by gcc.
asciilifeform: will post patch for 'fix' in a spell. gotta change clothes first.
asciilifeform: where none of the 'static' stuff actually worked ever.
asciilifeform: mod6: read the log. i fixed it, only to reveal a mega-bug
mod6: so re: all the uint32_t, sorry that you're all having problems with this. I guess I missed a lot of stuff.
mircea_popescu: scarcely any need to practice then.
mircea_popescu: i never hear of anyone flunk the cemetery.
asciilifeform: wake me up when they build a fab.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wake me up when they get kernel
mircea_popescu: the part that's worth teaching is easy to teach, and unrelated to intelligence.
mircea_popescu: it is a matter of need : in order to ensure your space you must control whole chains. there's no escaping this, and so someone will have to. nobody particularly has a desire to run a cnc mill or an ic fab, but if one wants working software, one has to. and so it flows.
asciilifeform recommeds that mircea_popescu start collecting slavegirls who are handy with systems programming. though the trouble may be that ones of the correct vintage (no later than early '80s) are probably beginning to spoil...
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2015#1082999 << and it's not a matter of desire, we're not discussing aesthetics here, as if we were living in a post-functional world where even bothering to think about "where does the tap water come from" is a waste of time.
mircea_popescu: anything conflicting with this chain is about as interesting as "a bitcoin" that doesn't mine off the main chain.
mircea_popescu: his desire to own a cnc mill is a result of his desire to own a nuke, which is a result of his desire to go "either you stick to this rule or i kill you"
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2015#1082995 << no. living off radar is not a matter of vanishing yourself. it is a matter of forcing the op to turn the radar off.
asciilifeform: or so much as a gram of soy, that the chinese can't grow cheaper, with which to buy one.
assbot: Logged on 01-04-2015 22:14:49; nubbins`: anyway, whether or not one can survive comfortably off the radar is more a function of the route their life has taken thus far. it's not in the cards for everyone.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2015#1082985 << no. it is strictly a function of whether they are posing a threat to the leviathan or not. strictly that. no "routes". you can only matter if you can actually blow a hole in them, and you can only blow a hole in them if you don't depend on someone's permission for your activity.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nevertheless you can still go to argentina's remote east and grow some soy for yourself << grow me a 0805 resistor.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2015#1082974 << this is where the entire "smart" turns to stupid. the only thing them smart hipsters can do is be my slavegirls.
BingoBoingo pours a drink because cutting the liquor budget substantially for the short to medium term future.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Toned down the meta a bit.
mircea_popescu: just, vagrant stupid rather than delusional stupid.
assbot: Logged on 01-04-2015 21:43:36; nubbins`: all of a sudden the freewheelin hitchhikin hippies aren't so stupid :0
assbot: Logged on 01-04-2015 21:42:51; ascii_field: so it isn't simply a matter of physically getting out - any idiot with 1k-usd or so can do that. but you also have to completely divorce the 'legit global economy'
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2015#1082925 << that's prolly going too far. the usg can prolly "exert pressure" on the price of soy, nevertheless you can still go to argentina's remote east and grow some soy for yourself.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Faced with technology that forces it to reveal its teeth and claws, along with the reaping of the fruit the United States Government planted in its subversion of the computing stack at every level, the fangs are being bared and the claws unsheathed."
nubbins`: asciilifeform i'm done w/ this for the evening, but my next step will be to try again with gcc 4.4.5, which mod6 says was current (in debian) when 0.5.3 came out
nubbins` invites anyone currently watching to google the above error, with quotes
nubbins`: alf, take small solace in the fact that it's not just you?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
hanbot: ;;later tell BingoBoingo very nicely done. coupla edits: United State's Government's / States' ; Republic of the United State's of America / States
hanbot: ;;later_tell BingoBoingo very nicely done. coupla edits: United State's Government's / States' ; Republic of the United State's of America / States
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: ^ qntra on the topic is up
BingoBoingo: funkenstein_: Did you read the order? It is linked and on the white house website as well as attached in full text at the botton of the post
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> jurov: though BingoBoingo did 'go ferguson go' a bit << Then the peace vampires came out, like USG Informant Al Sharpton.
funkenstein_: persons located, in whole or in substantial part, outside the United States <--- ???
nubbins`: if it looks kosher, then try ./auto.sh again
ben_vulpes: funkenstein_: that's the spirit
funkenstein_: just meant to say i liked the chap's spirit
nubbins`: trinque everywhere's got problems, they're just, uh... /different/ here
funkenstein_: guess it was the royal we ;)
trinque: well this and other things
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> lived most of my life as one. << my turn to live under the gallows shadow
ascii_field: jurov: fair. i'm not sitting and 'go, zetas, go' either.
ascii_field: please post the barf
ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> mircea_popescu: i would not waste the gentlemens' time if i did not think this were interesting. << rather.
ascii_field: danielpbarron: the bitcoin doesn't buy additional hate. usg does that.
ascii_field: but every time i have a small success in the things i work on, i picture some 'full spectrum dominance' type who will have to sell his daughters six minutes sooner
ascii_field: i don't expect atomic dirigible to pick me up from the hell
ascii_field: as in 'find a use for, assuming they can eat tree bark and build own computer from mud'
ben_vulpes: burn the biodiesel.
ascii_field: perhaps he meant the old meaning of word 'employ'
ascii_field: occasionally knocks some teeth from the demented butcher's mouth.
ascii_field: the one still kicking a little.
ascii_field: ru is not 'the future', just the best-looking horse in the usg glue factory, in this regard.
ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> (which result from my gcc NOT going behind my back and inserting stdint exactly where wanted, the way everyone else's apparently does) << i don't even know how to check which tools are lying to me
nubbins` wonders the easy way to discover said target
trinque: let the thing wear itself out
jurov: if they mistook finnish and central eu folk for such idiots
ascii_field: jurov: the paranoid wants to live in quiet in his bunker, with buffer zone made of idiots who sided with his molesters around, for safety. the narcissist wants to cut up everything good and bright that ever was to cut into designer purse for self.
trinque: meanwhile I'm not about to run out in front of the white house with my dick out and a target painted on my chest
ascii_field: jurov: dueling mega-states leave the schmucks poorer, who could be surprised
assbot: Logged on 01-04-2015 21:22:34; mircea_popescu: im kinda curious how is jurov going to rationalise away the fact that on the balance of things, the us thug is actually more thuggish than the ru thug.
jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-04-2015#1082878 wait what, how do we measure the thuggery here?
ascii_field: funkenstein_: when they drag you away, feel free to imagine that the 'giant' is a gaggle of midgets. much difference it will make in 'gitmo.'
trinque: ^ that's the injury
trinque: my only goal is to get out of the way of a giant that's already mortally injured
ascii_field: don't take my word for it. try speaking other languages to it, see how far you get.
ascii_field: the choice is between 'die' and 'die like a man'
trinque: so... why not drop off the face of bitcoin entirely until escape velocity
ascii_field: then 'quit thinking, your life led you to no good' ?
ascii_field: nubbins`: and if you can't think when surrounded by loud, noxious strangers and their excreta ?
nubbins`: that's why the off-radars live with strangers (or, more frequently, friends)
ascii_field: nubbins`: but even something like living in a dwelling without the company of strangers is a titanically expensive luxury in most of the world
ascii_field: to follow this logic to the end, it is much better to be a rat than a man
nubbins`: anyway, whether or not one can survive comfortably off the radar is more a function of the route their life has taken thus far. it's not in the cards for everyone.
ascii_field: nubbins`: understand, i do not know them personally. though i used to keep the company of some people who -ate- from dumpsters
ascii_field: understand, subjects of usg always have the choice of moving into a private, independent ambulatory jail
nubbins`: <+ascii_field> nubbins`: when the canadian affiliate of usg decides that nubbins` is a t3rr0r1st!!!1111!!1 and supplying mains current to his home is an atrocity which must end, 'underground economy' will do so in its place ? <<< understand that "underground economy" means you have neither a mortgage nor a lease in your own name
ascii_field: (see earlier, substantive thread, before the obamitler thing)
ascii_field: the list of the folks dekulakized, libelled, injured, killed by usg thugs - is bookcase-length.
funkenstein_: that bit about the father getting jumped by 45 guys with usg hats totally ruined my april 1 thanks a lot guys
ascii_field: and srsly, this is just the -famous- people
ascii_field: funkenstein_: other than mircea_popescu
ascii_field: i mean, the whole lot of us schmucks who are stuck here
funkenstein_: cause sometimes it sounds like you guys believe there is a real usg
ascii_field: and they make good petz
ascii_field: for those who still don't get it - it costs more to -actually- remove someone from usg planet, than it does to lift them into orbit.
ascii_field: trinque: the implications are unsurprising. merely a friendly reminder from usg that anyone in range is fair game to it to rape with a telephone pole, and that - unless you're mircea_popescu, putin, or one of a hundred other folks who can say 'no' and make it stick, all you can do is to wait your turn.
gribble: You rated user othernubs` on Mon Oct 20 13:34:32 2014, with a rating of 10, and supplied these additional notes: not a bad guy.