asciilifeform: you can still take the code and build elsewhere - if you know how
asciilifeform: if you have physical hardware, you do not control all of the variables
mod6: i dont want to rely on an emulator if possible. i'd like to have: a URL to an ISO of gentoo that's "acceptable", a script that pulls down tar balls of required tools and builds them
asciilifeform: these do not focus on any -physical- machine that existed in life
nubbins`: what's the simplest we could get away with?
asciilifeform: there -are- even simpler emulators
nubbins`: so maybe we can start there
nubbins`: leaving aside the question of OS for now
asciilifeform: because we -would- have to eventually audit the binaries.
asciilifeform: given that i do not especially feel like publishing the entire contents of my disk, nor could you replicate my machine easily (most of the components are no longer produced) - the next best thing is to somehow create an equivalent
asciilifeform: the only -canonical- parent of a given build on my box is my particular hardware plus my particular disk contents
mod6: ok. im not sure if we have a way forward on this project. or if there is, I don't know what it is.
asciilifeform: mod6: i want a script that will build all of the "accepted"/"blessed" versions << notice that this is where we were with bitcoind ?
asciilifeform: what then.
asciilifeform: mod6: say i publish a recipe for constructing said image (runs on, e.g., qemu-system-mipsel). and then you do it, and we learn that your disk image differs from mine which differs from nubbins` which differs from mircea_popescu's etc
mod6: i want a script that will build all of the "accepted"/"blessed" versions of the things it needs; gcc, etc, etc, etc.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i'd rather have something that isn't as dependent on pc
mod6: Ok, so say that you have installed via offical docs, bla bla bla. Ok, then our release doesn't work. But we need to fix defects, and I refuse to have this happen going forward. So we need something repeatable.
asciilifeform: regardless of whether you have a 'pc' or 'elbrus'
asciilifeform: and see the result.
nubbins`: "build script" is sorta the install guide :P
nubbins`: mod6 in fairness my gentoo was installed using the official docs, and it's reacting precisely the same as alf's
nubbins`: "can't untie the knot in your laces? cut em off and apply glue-backed velcro"
mod6: asciilifeform: can you make a repeatable build environment for The Foundation to use going forward? Something put together by you, blessed by you, so we're all building/testing/using something that "fits in head"?
nubbins`: one of the solutions floated for the "no lssl, lcrypto" thing was to download precompiled bins
asciilifeform: nor should nubbins`, or ben_vulpes, or the rest.
asciilifeform: general rule is that i should be able to at least obtain the build target using -the compilers i presently have- and a set of sourceballs.
nubbins`: asciilifeform then i'd mention again that i built it on POSIX-compliant os
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> what's the One True Build Target for La Serenissima? << why asking -me-, l0l
mod6: <+nubbins`> what *has* 0.5.3.1 worked on so far? debian, darwin, that it? << what's blowing my mind is why i was able to build just fine on aws Gentoo AMI. Unless it was packed full of stuff in there that we don't want to begin with. Which must be the case.
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: are you coming to con3?
thestringpuller: systemd is the best thing ever
ben_vulpes: ('here, let me duct tape a bunch of libs together so you get emails when your derps break the cpp compiled into the android code')
ben_vulpes: anyways, we need a build target. one. not the accidental build target of debian 6 that fell out of my archaeology project.
nubbins`: i don't know nearly enough about gcc to be of much further use atm
nubbins`: gentoo is ostensibly used by alf because it's the sanest. the fact that bitcoind doesn't compile on it doesn't necessarily mean that the OS is the problem, nor does it mean a turd should be adopted as the OTBT
nubbins`: gentoo on amd64, but the shit don't work
ben_vulpes: <mod6> [14:57] anyway, that's the deal. we need something that we can work with; one supported environment, blessed by alf. << asciilifeform, what's the One True Build Target for La Serenissima?
mats: For example: the most significant issue in the Truecrypt report is a finding related to the Windows version of Truecrypt's random number generator (RNG), which is responsible for generating the keys that encrypt Truecrypt volumes.
mats: funkenstein_: read the extract
nubbins`: wow, the latest DDOS attack against the forum seems to have reinstated the ability to change/add avatars
asciilifeform: i just can't get over the lulziness of usg proclaiming that stealing/extorting from an outlaw constitutes 'theft of government property'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://cryptome.org/2015/04/ulbricht-227-228.pdf << the unsealed material
asciilifeform: quite possibly this is where the getaddrinfo crap is from!
asciilifeform: my dns seed snip patch never made it in the realease, did it
asciilifeform: because it was given the local ssl as a search path, yes
asciilifeform: motherfuckers.
asciilifeform: it's in there all right
asciilifeform: 'Using 'getaddrinfo' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking' << wtf are we even using getaddrinfo for.
nubbins`: pink eye will make up the rent shortfall
nubbins`: i think the openssl build has some problems
asciilifeform: nubbins`: he's got til the 30th << so you didn't need the money? or will replace him with a fresh idiot ?
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> "canot find -lssl, -lcrypto" << note! it finds the system's headers, like a moron, and builds with them, then notices no local ssl was built (it wasn't)
nubbins`: he's got til the 30th
nubbins`: anyway i gave said idiot the boot
assbot: Logged on 01-04-2015 22:18:14; ascii_field: nubbins`: but even something like living in a dwelling without the company of strangers is a titanically expensive luxury in most of the world
asciilifeform: What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket << i do so hate these 'what you need to know' titles. implication is that no serious person would need to know anything else
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno << short keys
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> in that "proof of idempotence" has generally been orders of magnitude more successful at proving the proving party has no idea what proving means << didn't say it would be easy. or that the existing 'state of the art' is any kind of guide.
funkenstein_: nubbins i can hold the private key for you don't worry
nubbins`: the fucking email address?
nubbins`: what's the private key here?
asciilifeform: any wonder they banned shamir from usa?
asciilifeform: ^ now we know what EACH AND EVERY ONE of those institutions, the papers this cheap clown refereed, the conferences he chaired - are worth.
asciilifeform: 'Dan Boneh is professor of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering at Stanford University, and leads the applied cryptography group there. He has written extensively on cryptography and computer security, publishing more than 150 refereed conference and peer-reviewed journal papers. Boneh served as an editor of ACM Transactions on Internet Technology (TOIT), Journal of the ACM (JACM), and Journal of Cryptology. He has serv
asciilifeform: and it has the full blessing of american academia, yes.
asciilifeform: 'Identity-based encryption is a type of public-key encryption in which any arbitrary string (such as a users email address) can be used as a public key, enabling data to be protected without the need for long, randomly generated keys or certificates. Today, there are numerous standards for IBE based on Bonehs work, including IEEE P1363.3 and several IETF RFCs.' << from the press release.
asciilifeform: 'Boneh, in joint work with Matt Franklin, constructed a novel pairing-based method for identity-based encryption (IBE), whereby a user's public identity, such as an email address, can function as the user's public key. Since then, Boneh's contributions, together with those of others, have shown the power and versatility of pairings, which are now used as a mainstream tool in cryptography. The transfer of pairings from theory t
funkenstein_: mats, can you summarize the COOP scoop?
mod6: anyway, that's the deal. we need something that we can work with; one supported environment, blessed by alf.
nubbins`: i know qemu was bandied about in the past
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:58; nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration."
assbot: ACM - Infosys Foundation Award in the Computing Sciences - ACM Award ... ( http://bit.ly/1IUjPhm )
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 01:18:00; decimation: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2725255/create-statically-linked-binary-that-uses-getaddrinfo <glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration.
nubbins`: with "-std=c++03" from portatronic patch removed: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=50XwKjsy (precisely the same as before patching)
nubbins`: if i manually move the headers over, back to uint32_t errors: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=taiiWaYc
nubbins`: asciilifeform mod6 ben_vulpes and others: on a side note, auto.sh doesn't put the openssl headers in /ourlibs/
nubbins`: well, i'd like to believe this is all an illusion and i'll eventually wake up, my 16-year-old self, sweating through the mattress in a fever dream
nubbins`: the slightest twitch of a finger.
nubbins`: i.e. they care enough to share a link
nubbins`: put another way: maybe all your bookface friends care just as much as you do
lobbes: I feel the cynicism growing inside me
funkenstein_: danielpbarron, what are the height numbers?
Adlai: breaking news: not all interspecies interactions are beneficial for both parties, or even either!
nubbins` can't wait to reduce the head count in here
nubbins`: or, since i am generally always home, pick a time when any normal person is precisely in the middle of a night's rest
Adlai: sounds like his plan was "pick a time when nubbins`'s probability density is most concentrated within the home"
nubbins`: after a few minutes of this, my doorbell rings, so i go grab a chunk of wood to cave the guy's face in with
nubbins`: In April 2014, BitStamp representatives messaged Force, asking him why he was accessing his account through Tor. He responded through the support ticket: “I utilize TOR for privacy. Don’t particularly want NSA looking over my shoulder :)”
assbot: What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket - Forbes ... ( http://bit.ly/1CAOSN1 )
nubbins`: http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahjeong/2015/04/01/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-unsealed-silk-road-docket/
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 04:44:24; asciilifeform: they could be put on the tree today and would stay unpicked.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083930 << this seems exceedingly likely, especially with stuff like the "oh open source is more secure because million eyes" million examples fresh in memory.
mircea_popescu: "if kids continue to not show up for class, the class will continue to get detention!"
mircea_popescu: "To view a downloaded movie, you double-click it. And then you're watching it. Stick a recent commercial DVD into your player, though, and you'll probably have to sit through lengthy, un-skippable warnings about how dastardly is the piracy in which you did not just engage."
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083849 << dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno.
BingoBoingo did not expect axe time to offer this much lead to work the whetstone before sword time
mircea_popescu: how hard is it to reproduce a coil of wire with... another coil of wire!
mircea_popescu: why the fuck not put in there... some "carefully chosen" solenoids of the right fucking charge.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:51:47; asciilifeform: i can see this being given to unreliable warsaw pact nations to -amplify- their tempest emanations
mircea_popescu: i suppose "works according to what we know how to do" is the one standard of tradecraft.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and speaking of it : http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/psu/img/Tempest.png doesn't look like the exceptionally advanced thing the article promised. seems to me the solenoid-driven switching would create so much echo as to make it readily measurable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude how did you dig up the fialka thing.
mircea_popescu: "Please note that due to security reasons from this release on the minimal mDNS stack included in nss-mdns (dubbed "legacy") is no longer built by default. Thus, nss-mdns will not work unless Avahi is running!"
mircea_popescu: in that "proof of idempotence" has generally been orders of magnitude more successful at proving the proving party has no idea what proving means,
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:34:34; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:fork the chain or maintain the historical copy. << third option: make new apparatus, prove idempotence.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:39; decimation: asciilifeform: one wonders what the openssl authors use as a 'baseline os'
mircea_popescu: really the similarities are many and varied.
assbot: The definitive sovereign pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1I6L2Qg )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-definitive-sovereign/ < updated, because i can't sleep now, because of this stroke of brilliance.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
bagehot: Why do folks here consider bitcoins tradeable for other goods?
bagehot: Hey, thanks for the up
decimation: but it's true that they weren't
asciilifeform: it is a mistake, to call them low hanging
asciilifeform: playing with the 'big iron' at usg expense.
asciilifeform: contrary to popular image of rms, he was - at the time - the very example of a 'straight lace square'
asciilifeform: now, for the man who likes physics, maths, etc - it was golden age.
asciilifeform: so they went apeshit when offered chances.
asciilifeform: it was yet another generation asked to eat stale doughnuts
asciilifeform: but what -could- they have been doing, that was equally entertaining as setting rabid chimps free ?
decimation: for who, the 'pro-animal' hippie?
decimation: yeah because the hippies want to 'set free'
asciilifeform: but that this had not always been so, and old-timers remembered when you could keep the cages in the lab
asciilifeform: i was told they were under 24/7 heavily armed guard
asciilifeform: decimation: my first paying job was at nih. and found it odd that only select few had the clearance to see where the live animals were
decimation: but it was made worse because apparently the hippies of the time took to 'attacking' the machines
asciilifeform: last i checked, i can't waltz in to my local uni and use their mass spectrometer or nmr
decimation: so there was a hunger to 'own' said machine
decimation: obviously 'actual people' were not exactly thrilled with the idea of being treated like criminals while calculating
decimation: one of the reasons why the "PC" was such a success (as in the commodore, etc) was because many universities had taken to putting their computers behind a locked wall
asciilifeform: 'He died at the console, / Of hunger and thirst. / Next day he was buried, Face down, nine-edge first. / And the last bug in sight, / An ant passing by, / Saluted his tombstone, / And whispered, Nice try.'
decimation: la wik' seems to imply that the "system 3" punch card was the most densely packed card in common use
decimation: that actually sounds pretty effective, assuming the listener didn't have a recorder
asciilifeform: ' Then, after the tape had been professionally rewound, you could rent it again, if you liked.'
decimation: yeah it's kinda the magnetic equivalent of a bigass flywheel
asciilifeform: i mean, it didn't get pulled in to the static build
nubbins`: are they symlinked to .so.1.0.0 like mine are?
asciilifeform: to the extent they did not use it (and swiss 'cryptoag' etc marketed rotors until late '80s!! and possibly now) - usg and its merry men had their fun with the payload.
asciilifeform: interestingly, vernam (which we today call 'one time pad') coexisted with all of them
asciilifeform: all the rotor machines were much alike.
decimation: heh even the russian version is a slightly more advanced 'enigma' machine http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/m125_3/index.htm
asciilifeform: how could there not be.
asciilifeform: of course there was
decimation: apparently there was a 'russian-only' version of the machine: http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/m125_3/rus.htm
asciilifeform: i am inclined to believe that something is missing from the schematic.
decimation: heh yeah there's gonna be 'clicks'
asciilifeform: i can hardly imagine the circuit fooling anything but the most dull power analysis device
asciilifeform: they didn't solder by machine, aha.
decimation: I like the 30 mil traces
asciilifeform: them.
assbot: Logged on 18-02-2015 06:16:02; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: before i fall asleep, i remembered to tell, that there actually were 'integrated circuits' in ussr that were built in the way you suggest
asciilifeform: that is -not- an integrated circuit in the modern sense!
asciilifeform: 'In some of the circuits, 2TC613 ICs are used [1]. Each of these ICs contains four transistors, They belong to one of the first generations of Russian ICs.' << another howler
asciilifeform: decimation: you can see the trimpots
decimation: "The value of the dummy-load resistors is choosen carefully, so that they the circuit draws the same current as the solenoids. As a result, the PSU will not only supply a constant voltage, but will also consume a constant current" < this seems dubious on production units
decimation: surely someone in the 'unreliable nation' would have had suspicions
asciilifeform: instead of the old-fashioned power supply.
asciilifeform: 'Although it may seem unnecessary, the data socket (marked МАШИНА II) must be connected, as otherwise the machine will not work. This is done to ensure the use of the TEMPEST feature (see below). ' << seems to imply that it was a straight pass-through
decimation: simply swap the right parts...
asciilifeform: i can see this being given to unreliable warsaw pact nations to -amplify- their tempest emanations
asciilifeform: in the -power supply-
asciilifeform: and why, precisely, does it need the digital output ?
asciilifeform: funny how they gave a damn re: tempest on a fucking ROTOR CRYPTO MACHINE
asciilifeform: check out the 'tempest' psu.
decimation: the psu
asciilifeform: 'Warning: never connect this 3-pin male plug (24V DC) to the 3-pin female plug (230V AC) of the mains cable. Due to bad design, it fits perfectly, but supplies the mains voltage to the 24V input of the cipher machine, causing permanent damage to the cipher machine. Be warned!' << l0l
decimation: the "fialka" grid is only 30x30
decimation: the trouble is getting enough 'holes' on a reasonable size paper
decimation: yeah I think I recall. like the 'Fialka' machine http://www.cryptomuseum.com/crypto/fialka/card.htm
decimation: well, the point is that a fairly rigorous device could be made
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu:fork the chain or maintain the historical copy. << third option: make new apparatus, prove idempotence.
asciilifeform: decimation: afaik there were never dedicated ada silicon
nubbins`: with the portatronic patch.
asciilifeform: when you scratch the surface, you always find some imbecile who develops on winblows, and then asks 'whatchalookingat'
nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration."
decimation: asciilifeform: one wonders what the openssl authors use as a 'baseline os'
asciilifeform: nubbins`: there we go
mircea_popescu: "i am arthur son of uther pendragon, defeater of the molds, killer of the bilge water!"
decimation: the 'headless beast' is hard to kill but easy to misguide
mircea_popescu: the sheer fact of the b-a of the time made it. the usg follows in all dances. never yet lead, never will lead.
mircea_popescu: who, pray tell me, eats the shit it eats that it just shat ?
decimation: I suppose the same holds roughly true with gold
mircea_popescu: who wants to fuck with an ipad when there's a perfectly usable desktop ?
decimation: who is gonna want to be paid in dollars while the fed is hoarding bitcoin
decimation: mircea_popescu: perhaps, but to fully realize it usg would have to publicly destroy the dollar bezzle
mircea_popescu: decimation this is not going away. the usg's hunger for btc far exceeds its hunger for anything else COMBINED.
mircea_popescu: ". The deal, according to a "solicitation" document, would be worth $2.1 million to the U.S. taxpayer, at least." << how to get 20k ipads for 100 bucks each ?
decimation: parts of usg would gravely protest other parts of usg minting non-usd
mircea_popescu: airjets can be made out of imported parts. and are. and they suck. and it doesn't matter.
BingoBoingo: I dunno if anyone here other than hanbot will be familiar with BuzzDave's MO, building ASIC mining farm at any budget, whether feeds scamzors or not in the process irrelevant
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's probably useful in building the lists of who can be dekulakized willingly.
asciilifeform: anyone who doesn't send them off to pound sand up arse - has bowed to usg
mircea_popescu: ... but you don't wanna lie... not to the yo-oung...
asciilifeform: Coinbase Seeks 'Invasive' Details on US Bitcoin Mining Operations << this is, to use the 'manosphere' term of art, a 'shit test'
mircea_popescu: i guess i contributed the mix. dj mp.
mircea_popescu: hm... check that out, actually it isn't. he has a "coming through a hole in the air", thing. and there's an excellent "the night comes on. it's very clam. i'd like to imagine my father was wrong..." very powerful verse somewhere else.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 02:24:41; asciilifeform: this is 'the hole through which the night walks in', to borrow a mircea_popescuism
asciilifeform: nubbins`: but applying the portatronic patch turns my uint32_t error into an int64_t error << apply the -other- patch. the one from 2hrs ago.
BingoBoingo actually affected by MP's deed of the day. lacks assets for USG to steal
decimation: ^ french housewives enforced the various 'maximums'
mircea_popescu: usg doing a splendid job of getting the muppets do the "case da joint" work for free.
nubbins`: tbh gentoo is the odd one out here, which is curious
nubbins`: but really though, the closest stable gcc version to mod6's 4.4.5 that portage still carries is 4.4.7
assbot: It turns out the photo of 4-year-old Syrian girl surrendering to a camera is real, not faked. http://t.co/7Vw3MoGWGN http://t.co/RsiQhJWDPS
nubbins`: asciilifeform haven't peeked at your latest mail yet, but applying the portatronic patch turns my uint32_t error into an int64_t error
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I know openbsd has a plan for governance post-Theo. The exact plans are opaque to me. It would be abberant for Beck to naturally outlive Theo, but... known unknown
mircea_popescu: decimation im very much left wondering by asciilifeform's ideas about china. i dunno that it's in any sense comensal with the us.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 02:00:00; BingoBoingo: OpenBSD has been nice to me, but weird compared to linux and as a point that displeases MP poor fundraiser Bob Beck is in their WoT
decimation: mircea_popescu: note that china knows how this game works; is taking 'possession' of the south china sea
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 01:26:21; scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-definitive-sovereign/
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083462 << there you go mr budget :D
decimation: BingoBoingo: "Among the purposes of 'Snowden' - who never 'stole' any documents - is to increase the sense of terrorism and blackmail among governments; " < to believe this is to travel through the looking-glass
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> salesforce either << usg is not the post office. usg is precisely the folks who perpetrate things such as 'salesforce.'
BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: usg buys everything on the 'friends&family' plan << And no one knows how tenous their connection is as Force, Carl Mark IV can likely attest
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Perhaps re-read http://cryptome.org/2015/03/snowden-cia-fraud.htm though beast has a dissciative mental disorder and this brave soul reporting suffers isolation the thread doesn't tear
ben_vulpes: plenty happens beyond its domain. its domain, as was the french, is vastly less broad and strong than it thinks.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> is mickey-d usg ? << When I worked there after Library school frozen meat cam in boxes labeled Cargill, member of Carlisle group, indicted somewhat in Farenheit-911
asciilifeform: while not everything in the solar system 'comes from jupiter' - he has a say in what happens.
ben_vulpes: "everything comes from the government" my arse
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> maybe not where you live. << You may know there where, but not the how to look
ben_vulpes: salesforce either.
asciilifeform: but then look - who buys it? with what ?
asciilifeform: say ben_vulpes sells aluminum siding. by the gigatonne.
decimation: asciilifeform: usg buys everything on the 'friends&family' plan