(trilema) ben_vulpes: here's a wack notion
(trilema) ben_vulpes: "Although I agree that it's totally insecure, no matter how you sugar coat it--I really don't think it's a feature that should be removed."
(trilema) ben_vulpes: " I'd like my secret key on multiple machines, and I don't know how to move it around easily."
(trilema) ben_vulpes: from the shitgnome lulzotron: https://github.com/keybase/keybase-issues/issues/160
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;ident petahash
(trilema) ben_vulpes: what are you looking to learn?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ya keep going please.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;calc 1000000 / [ticker --last]
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ...
(trilema) ben_vulpes: what's your question, elementofone?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: !up elementofone
(trilema) ben_vulpes: !down elementofone
(trilema) ben_vulpes: the throttling!
(trilema) ben_vulpes: apropos only of rockets
(trilema) ben_vulpes: just reject crlf
(trilema) ben_vulpes: yes sure that would be useful indeed.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: oh!
(trilema) ben_vulpes: not a chair problem tho
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ho ho ho
(trilema) ben_vulpes: jurov: sorry, don't understand the question
(trilema) ben_vulpes runs macos - admitted turd, but not windows
(trilema) ben_vulpes: what precisely had \r\n?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: scissors? no. time today? perhaps.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: sapper trains with...
(trilema) ben_vulpes: reference impl is correct language
(trilema) ben_vulpes: reference client was a total fat-finger on my part
(trilema) ben_vulpes: just append each signature
(trilema) ben_vulpes: was going to say.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ...
(trilema) ben_vulpes: right yeah
(trilema) ben_vulpes: how do you get pgp to spit such out?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: gets ugly.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: some derpy shit i've seen: recursive signing of documents. one party signs doc, another party signs clearsigned doc.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: but that's not what you've got implemented.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: what i'd prefer is a text blob and detached signatures.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: it's left to users.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: hey punkman how should deedbot be fed multiply-signed documents?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: electrum?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: what are you using again?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: .balance
(trilema) ben_vulpes: .status
(trilema) ben_vulpes: time will ebb and flow.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: key*
(trilema) ben_vulpes: bluematt appears to have revoked his wot ket.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i do believe that someone in the wot must read patches, yes.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: yes, encrypted because clearsigned as well.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: and clearsigned too
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ah so this list is for comms as well.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: well if sig fails l2 check...
(trilema) ben_vulpes: jurov: why bother checking body? instead maybe just check .patch.sig for l2 sig, and compare that to the file.
(trilema) ben_vulpes joins #bitcoin-dev
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i am 12 and what is this: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/qa/rpc-tests/conflictedbalance.sh#L40
(trilema) ben_vulpes: "PLEASE EMAIL ME IN CLEARTEXT KTHXBAI"
(trilema) ben_vulpes gives up
(trilema) ben_vulpes: pub 4096R/43E08E54 2011-03-06 [revoked: 2014-07-12]
(trilema) ben_vulpes: $ gpg -k Corallo
(trilema) ben_vulpes: nm fooled by github
(trilema) ben_vulpes: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/DiabloMiner << diablod3 wrote a miner in common lisp?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: although i have a hard time imaginging which customers of a bezzletron service would touch btc. buying a loss for the taxbooks doesn't make much sense with the blackcash.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: http://www.coindesk.com/mergertech-accepts-bitcoin-startup-sales-services/ << locals 'getting in' on the game
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i doubt anyone cares for further derpage on the topic from me.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;later tell adlai just trolling. although concurrency...python...2015...
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i'd be thrilled to see what scripts etc he wrote and how he went about the en-test-harness-ifying of the thing
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: if bluematt (who was he?) doesn't appear - one of us must do the deed ? << i have jenkins running with the blob locally, i'd just rather stand on bluematt's shoulders
(trilema) ben_vulpes: AT ALL OF HIS EMAILS
(trilema) ben_vulpes: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=0x0A82509767C7D4A5D14DA2301AE1D35043E08E54
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i'll mail matt tomorrow
(trilema) ben_vulpes: well, logged up
(trilema) ben_vulpes: decimation: have not yet tested, do not think that is the case.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: obviously the answer is a class with state safely segregated within it
(trilema) ben_vulpes: just - find all the places in which there's a testnet mention and try to figure out how to implement an off-network chain
(trilema) ben_vulpes: the thing isn't actually all that impossible to reason about
(trilema) ben_vulpes: if you dig into chainparams and main.cpp (iirc) you'll find such joys as the "stop generating a chain after 1 block is found so that...reasons"
(trilema) ben_vulpes: "regression testing"
(trilema) ben_vulpes: chain generation off network.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu would have that by the act of complaining i bring down more cpp upon my own back
(trilema) ben_vulpes: it's not *so* bad, clearly.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: and, by proxy, chainparams.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: now not only must i study testnet but also this regtest thing
(trilema) ben_vulpes: my rage is indescribeable
(trilema) ben_vulpes: it's glued in with the glass of the chainparams class
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i'm studying the regtest phenomena of 0.8.whatever
(trilema) ben_vulpes: and i've no idea if it's the most recent - there's no patch tracking tooling in place
(trilema) ben_vulpes: decimation: calling that a patch is charitable - more an excision
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;seen bluematt
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;gpginfo bluematt
(trilema) ben_vulpes: well put that way
(trilema) ben_vulpes: did anyone get in touch with bluematt?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: anyways
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i liked belgrano, seemed modest.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> recoleta* << and where for the fleeing usian pauper?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: if its so damn valuable
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> yes, still for sale << fucking rob him already
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <Adlai> the GIL is good << aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
(trilema) ben_vulpes: CvLOS
(trilema) ben_vulpes: cvomposite - is that a cvasi composite?!
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> major bender or something. << unlike our regular minor benders
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i kid, i kid.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: interpreting beats compiling again
(trilema) ben_vulpes: search is a day slow
(trilema) ben_vulpes: lol 2 lines down
(trilema) ben_vulpes: meta object?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: there's a non retarded object system?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: > not sure if trolled
(trilema) ben_vulpes: > common lisp
(trilema) ben_vulpes: > non retarded object system
(trilema) ben_vulpes: * asciilifeform knows of only one non-retarded object system, CLOS
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <thestringpuller> undata: it's unfortunate python gets a bad wrap though, Djanga seems more stable than say node.js << RECANT
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <undata> dumb; at least they knew to stay away from Django << so much to this
(trilema) ben_vulpes: tbf i forget the nuances
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (summary. aliens come, they have males, females, and ooloi. the latter run things and are really the only sentients. humans quickly discover that fucking in 3some with ooloi 'adapter' is the only really fun thing.) << gripping hand?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <Abelincoln> << that this is not <Abelincoin> should have been enough to prevent !ups
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> in my studies, i'm particularly interested in the 'suck' that no one even notices any more. << so relevant
(trilema) ben_vulpes: wait no actually mircea_popescu u
(trilema) ben_vulpes: me, i mean
(trilema) ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: lol off by 10x
(trilema) ben_vulpes: had loads of fun discovering the parts of the unix stack responsible for baud rate etc
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> it's as if we were still using teletype << funny story, biz partner bought hisself some gps chips
(trilema) ben_vulpes: HERE WE GO
(trilema) ben_vulpes: lines ago
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;calc 9234 - 8414
(trilema) ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i dropped out
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski lol negatron brogrammer
(trilema) ben_vulpes: what have you been doing
(trilema) ben_vulpes: good god this log
(trilema) ben_vulpes: http://www.antarctic-circle.org/Shackadvert2.jpg << sounds familiar
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> ricoletta << haw
(trilema) ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: also opera lol
(trilema) ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: chrome
(trilema) ben_vulpes: well you fill in that ellipses yourself.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: but as i said, clobbering the back-button when reading hyperlinked documents is...
(trilema) ben_vulpes: PeterL: yeah sure, custom stylesheet for contravex.com clobbering target="_blank"
(trilema) ben_vulpes: cazalla: only if you're depending on DO for your noise.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: also pete_dushenski your content div scrolls sideways
(trilema) ben_vulpes: vile fucking practice, destroying the browse history.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: dude you gotta stop your blog from opening up links in new tabs
(trilema) ben_vulpes: didja comment on their blorg?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ah cazalla yeah yeah
(trilema) ben_vulpes: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit << /me is amused at the "lisp/django" comparison
(trilema) ben_vulpes: cazalla: what did you actually ask them? i eventually realized that the 32mb line is the nominal largest size of a p2p message.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: 33MB lines when
(trilema) ben_vulpes: quickly generate more logs for thickasthieves
(trilema) ben_vulpes: wasn't PeterL going to set up a new blogs.ba
(trilema) ben_vulpes: neat! a dose of legitimacy.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: not a bad notion at all
(trilema) ben_vulpes: but fiatcorp calls at precisely this moment, and i must leave ye all for the meantime.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: so i've cobbled together a testing stack that builds and boots this build as I mentioned last night. next things that i'd like to do with it is attach it to testnet; and stand up a server non-locally to run these builds.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: testing bitcoin builds.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: that latter's a tough one.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: now im mulling what to publish
(trilema) ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i have one of those on me local machine
(trilema) ben_vulpes: and i didn't see any good suggestions re "what is the output of a 'merge'?"
(trilema) ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: is the mailing list up?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <jurov> ben_vulpes: what about bitcoin-enema.org ? f9beb4d9.org
(trilema) ben_vulpes: truly a hanky story, but it's a step towards integration tests and what has one
(trilema) ben_vulpes: so i've got a jenkins building this crazy stripped down build
(trilema) ben_vulpes: a doctorow link in -assets?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: markov chain
(trilema) ben_vulpes: eligus is < 5%
(trilema) ben_vulpes: "death of the preivous hard fork" meaning the actions that brought everyone onto the same chain?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: so the pool operators really decide if the hard fork goes off, correct?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: aight well fiat corp requires oiling before shuddering into motion in the morn. i'll continue this with anyone interested at a later point.
(trilema) ben_vulpes mutters darkly
(trilema) ben_vulpes: these crickets suggest that the chairs must make this decision.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: fresh set of signed blobs in *.org/releases?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: new "commit" in public repo?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: q: what is the output of a "merge" in this scenario?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: or political in the sense of 'forum'
(trilema) ben_vulpes: is the goal (eg political) to find some poor usian schmuck to take on hearn et al and risk full audit of all things, stopping and frisking by every passing police officer?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: choice for the technical role perhaps would be a better phrasing
(trilema) ben_vulpes: trust the l2?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: but how theoretically would i know what to merge?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i've been staring at it and it's not unintelligble -- horrible, but not unintelligible -- but given things like obfuscated c competition i don't think i'm actually a good technical choice for the role
(trilema) ben_vulpes: so i begin to wonder if i'm at all a good person to handle merges, given my lack of experience with cpp
(trilema) ben_vulpes: so merges should only happen when k l m n o have already signed patch
(trilema) ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu this is the thing you asked for in the first place: "sigs on lines"
(trilema) ben_vulpes: and a record of patches signed by individuals
(trilema) ben_vulpes: there's known state a
(trilema) ben_vulpes: jurov's turdvendor's the canonical repository
(trilema) ben_vulpes: lol no u
(trilema) ben_vulpes: hang on a sec here
(trilema) ben_vulpes: 32MB is not the steady-state line, it's just the largest sanctioned p2p msg
(trilema) ben_vulpes: simple is beautiful
(trilema) ben_vulpes: no stack to manage in that case; i'd prefer it if there are no obvious reasons to not.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: forgive my derpitude but why not simply sign the patch and collect sigs?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: re sig stack is the implication that a signs patch, b signs patch and a.sig, c patch and b.sig...
(trilema) ben_vulpes: where are the script kiddies draining the faucet...
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i was just wondering about that!
(trilema) ben_vulpes: should anyone *want* to endeedify their patch, they're welcome to.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: no sense tangling things
(trilema) ben_vulpes: punkman: a draft did, yeah. look for mod6's dpaste
(trilema) ben_vulpes: pool administrators determine block size, correct?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: i've a question about mining, for anyone who knows.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: never imagined such.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you weren't kidding about "glue and glass"
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ick ick ick ick ick
(trilema) ben_vulpes: lol
(trilema) ben_vulpes: first showed up on wiki in march 2014
(trilema) ben_vulpes: is -regtest not avail in 0.5.3?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: 'download full bundle' link is broken
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;ident punkman
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;gpginfo punkman
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;later tell dmzpkts tell me about ninjashogun's bet failure someday
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot ninjashogun
(trilema) ben_vulpes: you're welcome kakobrekla
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;rate muxne 1
(trilema) ben_vulpes: hahaha
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot muxne
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust assbot Vexual
(trilema) ben_vulpes: !up Vexual
(trilema) ben_vulpes: pah
(trilema) ben_vulpes: which'd be too much wine?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: aw shit i'm out of wine
(trilema) ben_vulpes: no wait try this one http://www.xenosystems.net/the-cult-of-gnon/
(trilema) ben_vulpes: although hey popehat that's a grand resource
(trilema) ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu? skimming? will wonders never cease.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: 2 links in; found mr mold
(trilema) ben_vulpes: holy linkhole batman
(trilema) ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: shippments
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ah sometimes probably
(trilema) ben_vulpes: so sometimes the cock is 32mb long, but does the reference implementation accept those messages?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: well this'd be the difference between a spec and an implementation, non?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: 100mn?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: wait hm?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: do enlighten me
(trilema) ben_vulpes: "when i was your age, i got to work at 8, got off at 5, drank a beer, got on the train, went home and was at home. you poor fool answer emails lo unto 10pm"
(trilema) ben_vulpes: your parents worked less than you and enjoyed their life more << i was just having this conversation with my father
(trilema) ben_vulpes: oh god a giant trilema linking to other giant trilemas
(trilema) ben_vulpes: "inside voice" is one of the more useful things to teach a dog: http://videos-f-16.ak.instagram.com/hphotos-ak-xfa1/10745249_1722322861325716_1685564917_n.mp4
(trilema) ben_vulpes: thought it was just shitty
(trilema) ben_vulpes: today i discovered that calibre ships with heuristic processing disabled
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ah ha
(trilema) ben_vulpes: blinked, remembered childhood german lessons
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> who hasn't seen a sign, marked, 'notausgang' - emergency exit << read as "not a us gang"
(trilema) ben_vulpes: expend the set of people doing the thing and the copyfascists won't be able to keep up
(trilema) ben_vulpes: <undata> I think it would be fantastic to have an appified (derped) way of downloading game of thrones << web browser torrent plugins exist
(trilema) ben_vulpes: daw you boys are too sweet
(trilema) ben_vulpes: Беркем аль Атоми << i don't even know how to find out more about this short of...learning to read russian.
(trilema) ben_vulpes: interested to know where i went off the rails with that one
(trilema) ben_vulpes: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/25_notes-on-increasing-the-maximum-bitcoin-block-size-or-why-it-aint-happenin.html
(trilema) ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: do messages of less than 32 MB transmit regularly? are you aware of a discernable phase boundary for transmission reliability?
(trilema) ben_vulpes: ty mircea_popescu
(trilema) ben_vulpes: how would i get the size of an arbitrary block?