ascii_field: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20141125/NEWS04/141129858/mathematicas-wolfram-wins-fraud-case?utm_source=NEWS04&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=chicagobusiness << won.
ascii_field wasn't there, didn't see
ascii_field: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20141104/NEWS04/141109944/mathematicas-wolfram-sued-accused-of-secretly-recording-calls << l0l! apparently he's still sc4mz0r1ng folks
assbot: Why Wolfram (Mathematica) did not use Lisp | The (λ) Lambda meme - all things Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/1IOId3d )
ascii_field: http://www.ymeme.com/why-wolfram-%28mathematica%29-did-not-use-lisp.html << some detail of what
ascii_field: (gpl did not yet exist, and ianal, but the story is complicated - it -was- taxpayer-funded research)
ascii_field: what he did was, essentially, steal a usg mega-product - macsyma, the first really universal computer algebra system, thousands of man-years of
ascii_field has not yet read all of the man's writings
mircea_popescu: from the idiots trying to get "real estate developments" on arid hills in south america
mircea_popescu: lots of these, it turns out.
mircea_popescu: also not THAT expensive these days
ascii_field: the man is a crank who grew up as 'next big physics mind' who ended up coming to nothing. but turned out that he was good at harnessing other folks to pull his imperial cart.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it isn't an on-demand print, either
ascii_field: 'Wolfram, for his part, responded by suing or threatening to sue Cook (now a penniless graduate student in neuroscience), the conference organizers, the publishers of the proceedings, etc. '
ascii_field: how the result was made public, but to claim it for himself. In fact, his position was that the existence of the result was a trade secret. ...'
ascii_field: 'The real problem with this result, however, is that it is not Wolfram's. He didn't invent cyclic tag systems, and he didn't come up with the incredibly intricate construction needed to implement them in Rule 110. This was done rather by one Matthew Cook, while working in Wolfram's employ under a contract with some truly remarkable provisions about intellectual property. In short, Wolfram got to control not only when and
ascii_field: he later backed down, paper was printed, there were no lawsuits, iirc.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field hey, we discussed last year this guy that was really butthurt about some professor stealing his invention ? up in canada ? something to do with mathematica maybe ?
mircea_popescu: kinda how it only takes a moment;s survey to reealise a field/group/whatever will never amount to anything worth the mention.
mircea_popescu: anyway : the people who never burn anyone elementarily fail at this.
mircea_popescu: well ok then.
mircea_popescu: it may be good taste, but it more likely is a firm decision to burn anything and everything until it either behaves or goes away.
ascii_field: then trivially yes.
mircea_popescu: "people" in the collective.
ascii_field: (paulgraham, pre-braindamage, called the difference 'good taste' but not sure if this is descriptive)
ascii_field: except for the ones who won't
mircea_popescu: (and before anyone wants to argue re ford : the man pissed on a field of patents, ignored the law and basically ordered anyone messing with his stuff murdered.)
mircea_popescu: rocketry exists because of that nazi us citizen, not because of any government, or other group of people. and on and on.
mircea_popescu: looky here : nothing works unless individuals sovereign over them.
ascii_field: the sparrow may not be to blame for the spring, but the matter of the birdshit on statue - another.
mircea_popescu: next you're going to tell me growing autism is the intentional effect of tradecraft.
mircea_popescu: the planet needed no help with that.
ascii_field: (pedants will answer 'desinfo ain't sigint' but in usa they are presided over by the same people)
ascii_field: and before we say 'the americans and their wasted effort on pointless sigint' - let's recall how they set up a whole planet as chumpers who can't access a sane computing system at any price...
ascii_field: mentionable, like everything else, so long as the context is sufficiently obfuscated (or can be presumed to be unknown to the chumps)
mircea_popescu: "we can't afford to train and then to lose the agents what with these new techniques"
mircea_popescu: speaking of spies, i was kinda surpriosed to see news item linked yesterday casually point out the deep reason for why exactly us gaver up on actual humint to focus on mostl pointless sigint
mircea_popescu: nevertheless.
ascii_field recalls how richard sorge, perhaps greatest spy who ever lived, still stuck to impersonating a german - rather than japanese - official, while in jp
ascii_field: 'stop sending the blacks' (TM)
mircea_popescu: and if i couldn't that failure'd score pretty high up on the priority board.
ascii_field: didn't grow up drinking their swill, speaking their hundred-word language, watching their sporting crud, etc.
ascii_field: could quite easily flunk tests. could not convincingly worm into the company of folks who grew up doing so.
mircea_popescu: "no need to pay creators for creating - it's what they do"
mircea_popescu: so you're telling me you couldn't flunk tests. because it's "in your nature" to pass them.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the difference between smart and stupid is that smart can be stupid, but stupid can't be smart. that's it.
ascii_field: this is more of a 'that day was suddenly torn limb from limb by the other shoppers' thing
BingoBoingo recalls suprise at mircea_popescu's default chimp being the blowjob species
ascii_field: (i very clearly recall incident of specialist who dealt with chimps in the wild, getting 'chimped' after many uneventful years. but lost the link.)
mircea_popescu: what is surprising is that you're passing off chimps in a zoo for chimps in the wild,
ascii_field: what is surprising? the thing has roughly 5x the strength of a man, per gram of muscle.
mircea_popescu: "Andrew F. Oberle was giving a lecture to a group of tourists at the Chimp Eden sanctuary on Thursday when two chimpanzees grabbed his feet and pulled him under a fence into their enclosure, said Jeffrey Wicks of the Netcare911 emergency services company."
ascii_field: 'when two chimpanzees grabbed his feet and pulled him under a fence into their enclosure...'
ascii_field: iirc there is a hypothesis that it is why they attack - he fails to respond to some important chimp gesture of dom/sub protocol handshake
ascii_field: this is why the zoologist gets eaten every time
mircea_popescu: the other point, which for some reason you don't seem inclined to appreciate, is that if the difference between man and beast doesn't exist, then the nominal difference is spurious.
ascii_field: does not matter how clever was the man
ascii_field: the point, which i evidently failed to get across, is that the man vs chimp contest requires the man to at least get a chance to sharpen a stick, in order to use his advantage over the beast
ascii_field: while the rifle has rounds - yes.
ascii_field: speaking of exterminating monkeys, recall the thread with the strength of pan troglodytis ?
ascii_field: these observations are based 'in my light cone' naturally.
mircea_popescu: you know, the shapeshifting amoebic consistency of your position suggests to me that you'd rather it weren't discussed after all. which is it ?
ascii_field: but the crashed pilot in the jungle likewise plays with handicap vs beasts which grew up there.
ascii_field: one man in the field would likely fall to sufficient cockroaches
mircea_popescu: aesthetic considerations ? skin tone ?
mircea_popescu: i really don't agree with any of these.
ascii_field: one could argue that this is not true, and that 'there is still as much work for systems engineers today as in '70 - because nothing really works' - but 'as much work' does not mean 'as much employment'
ascii_field: one very important fact is that a 'naggum' - if he is the genuine article - is a -destroyer- of jobs for his own kind, rather than creator thereof
ascii_field: step outside of this, and you are fighting with the monkeys for monkey food.
ascii_field: there is not so much employment in the world for the 'naggum' variety of engineer. and one hundred percent of it is built on meat wots, years-long personal relationships and 'ins'.
ascii_field: can't speak for mats, but basic idea is that once you leave your meatwot, you are a fungible machine. this is a situation that, as mats put it, 'resets you to entry level' - and overwhelmingly favours the very young
mircea_popescu: that's to be done with your teachers, not with the fucking employers.
mats: my manager dicked around on a server and threw me under the bus when he fucked up
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jYT6WgNFFE << check it out, back when they had to hold up the mics, still raving about 1984 and orwellian society.
mats: i had the worst day
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2015 17:38:08; mircea_popescu: "Jaron Lanier is one of the worlds great polymaths. Hes a computer scientist, composer, visual artist, and the author of a new book, Who Owns the Future?, published last month "
ascii_field: another 'why is he famous?!' fella who goes on, and on, and on... about 'eternal copyright now!111!1' is jaron lanier
mircea_popescu: nah, not what's going on there imo.
mircea_popescu: pulp was never literature. it seemed like it, because of the nonsenser that was early 19th century new york.
mircea_popescu: but because they always sucked.
mircea_popescu: as they cheapened and broadened they took their proper place. not because "there aren't real wearers anymore"
mircea_popescu: his nostalgia is misplaced. the first time they came up with synthetic fibers people wore them out of pride. "look at me, i am one of those withthe industry"
mircea_popescu: "readers" meant "people more than willing to root through the shit, because literacy is new and printing only last year became affordable"
ascii_field: possibly with the help of lsd etc
ascii_field: the bulk - is quite unreadable
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to ellison, guy apparently wrote a shitton. i suppose it's mostly that we don't give a shit about their pulpy universes.
mircea_popescu: in other news, is Casey McKinnon really a man ?
ascii_field recalls the eternal 'the late cooper's daughter, in her december.. why was the famous? who could remember?'
ascii_field: performance metrics, in usa, are for the worker bees.
ascii_field: because they, approximately, hold 'title of nobility' in usa.
ascii_field: who get to not only avoid starvation but live like civilized people (naturally, referring to the winners in the tournament market, not the chinese grad students here)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not only this, but feeds the academic mandarin class
mircea_popescu: fraud that makes the consumer "consume" is a-ok
chetty: well its San Jose, the heart of soicalism country
ascii_field: (a great many - published such figures; turned out, to no one's surprise, fabricated wholesale; then somehow entire brouhaha magicked away )
ascii_field: 'Colleges need to publicize the employment rates of recent graduates and the percentage of students who complete their degrees so that strapped parents can do cost-benefit analyses like they do with any other major cash investment.' << anyone recall the law school debacle ?
mircea_popescu: sf in the 50s was a spare cycle endeavour of the people who at the time didn't have bbs yet.
mircea_popescu: right. it's basically if they start putting on "as seen in bash.bitcoin-assets.org" on shit long after we all left.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: hugo is voted on, iirc, by folks who go to (or at least buy ticket to...) 'worldcon' - an sf event attended mainly by writers (in practice, the wannabees i spoke of earlier)
mircea_popescu: was a big scandal in the tiny cup. evnetually tho... lo! i am vindicated.
mircea_popescu: i was suspicious at the time. had an argument with other teens, with me going "that's prolly just some shit they made up for the cover"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: that was more of a 'how dare they make an upvote ring, that's -ours- to do'
mircea_popescu: and they all sported various awards, nebula, hugo, whatever.
mircea_popescu: i recall when i was a kid, some of the first books printed in shiny covers etc were various sf works, which is how i even ended up owning some (ender's game, dune, other americas, crap like that) - they looked good.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: supposedly ellison witnessed the legendary bet b/w heinlein and hubbard. but afaik that's all..
ascii_field: mark halperin is another
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: ellison is interesting for another reason. he is the undisputed emperor of 'wrote a few good stories in the '50s, famous for nothing in particular since'; loudly rants demanding eternal copyright because 'creaaaatorz have riiiiiightz!!111!!'
ascii_field: the mains cords, aha
mircea_popescu: and where's that pic nubbins put in, with the "you do not want an adaptor, you think you do becaus you fucked up the light arrangement"
mircea_popescu: "this is the sort of item you only ever want because you fucked something else up"
mircea_popescu: obviously a bad idea, just not in their circumstances.
ascii_field: and not obviously a bad idea under the circumstances
mircea_popescu: stupid idea, but hey, they did have it.
mircea_popescu: yeah the nazis had something
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: who the fuck gets women off a menu << the fella with an already-assembled harem, such as mircea_popescu ?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field note that i wasn't commenting on whether i or anyone else would or not would want x. merely on how much sense x makes, given other things.
ascii_field: chetty: not that one cannot use imagination. but it is folly to say 'i would not want atomic dirigible' unless that choice is actually there, like the decision of whether to buy a laser printer
mircea_popescu: like you know, "an empire". yes the empire may sink, but usually not in water.
chetty: ascii_field, also know as can't think outside the box
mircea_popescu: you know the harem is not like, a block of cheese. it's an abstract name given to a complex social reality.
mircea_popescu: anyway, who the fuck gets women off a menu
ascii_field: re: socks: i am reminded of dan mocsny's piece on how very few people can give honest answer to the question of whether they want, e.g., a harem - because they don't have the option in menu
ascii_field: so then.
ascii_field: then again what do i know of tailors
mircea_popescu: i srsly couldn't be bothered.
ascii_field: no, because not much of an astronomer these days
ascii_field does not often read the sky
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i find reading anything - other than plain text - not designed with a particular viewport geometry in mind - physically painful.
mircea_popescu: i find the very concept of "page" retarded.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the problem is that you always have a finite workspace.
ascii_field: i suppose you could also say that i scroll, but simply prefer to do it with eyes rather than fingers
mircea_popescu: if it weren't, the square eye wouldn't put 3x more focus on horiz than it puts on vert sync.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you're eliding the point. the fact that your misshapen pixels allow you to not see the distortion means your meat is made to look through a tank periscope in the first place.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the shape of the pixels is considerably less interesting if you have ones sufficiently small to enable affine transforms of whatever kind you like, without visible distortion
mircea_popescu: anyway. i don't hate scrolling. i hate the situation where my field is fixed.
mircea_popescu: given that people's horiz precision is what, 3x their vert precision.
ascii_field: as in what the meat likes
mircea_popescu: yeah, well there it is.
ascii_field: i insist on these to be either on a) paper b) device with dimensions and pixel density of paper, which i own - but in both cases - retaining the original pagination
mircea_popescu: me being a folk who reads maths, and historeical documents. even the original blueprint.
mircea_popescu: actually trilema as-is works better for ALL of these than pdf.
ascii_field: but there are folks who read maths, or blueprints, or scanned historical documents.
ascii_field: www works fine for text and the occasional bitmap
mircea_popescu: but fwiw, my experience as an actual author is that the html format is WAY better than the pdf format for the web, which is why trilema is not delivered in pdfs.
ascii_field: the 'we want everything in www-readable plain text' concept sorta implies.
ascii_field: this is quite like proposing that bitcoind be built -on- the pogo.
mircea_popescu: so does pdf, in same conditions. except you gotta use either a windows bundle or else more perl crud munged together.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck you wrote one by hand ?!
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: you are proposing equivalent of selling raw crude at the petrol station
mircea_popescu: ascii_field dude, pdf is not for modification either
ascii_field: and, to use gnu's terminology, .tex is often 'not the preferred format for modification' - as in, it is frequently machine-generated
mircea_popescu: the failure of widgets is a problem of the widgetmaker. do not ask me to solve it till i market a widget.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, it's not only the most valuable thing you'll ever have - it's outright the only one.
mircea_popescu: oldest scam in the book, this identity transfer. keep your identity, it's yours.
mircea_popescu: now that you wish to be facebook inc, suddenly *they* gotta be you know "people", to take the place of the vague "we".
mircea_popescu: 'cause that's all they know, facebook model. pretend like "we" are interacting with the stakeholders but stay anonymous, and then if/when this gets big enough, assert a new identity and whoopdeedoo, claim you're worth a billion.
mircea_popescu: "o look, they're hippy dippy cool and got cat pictures". what "they" ? and it's not THEIR fucking cat, either.
mircea_popescu: no dude, that's how *they hope to make money*. later on. once "we" and "contact us" have got enough of this fuzzy baseless trust made by appealing to a certain naivity of the intelligent.
funkenstein_: mircea_popescu, their (arxiv / vixra) competion is journals that charge the author per page
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: in the sense of accurate and resolution-independent mapping to flattened dead tree
mircea_popescu: then people wonder about kaminsky. EXACT SAME THING. you lot have been so mentally stunted by the stupid welfare state, you do this sort of shit. "oh, i wonder if arxiv backwards . org paid funkenstein_ anything". no dude, they didn't, he's just silly like that. like everyone in that country.
ascii_field: it would help if there were actually a proper replacement for it.
ascii_field: re: the whole pdf thing ...
mircea_popescu: fuck them. you want me to tihnk "i wonder if you have more"
mircea_popescu: the difference between this stupid diqus shit and just writing for gawker is 0.
funkenstein_: lol i throw it on a blog then
mircea_popescu: and im not reading a pdf. what the fuck funkenstein_ .
mircea_popescu: bitstein the observer makes the valid code replace point, but STILL names its article "the race to replace bitcoin". as fucking if. "the race to waste imbecile capitalist money, the new hot valley term for what was once known as a venture capitalist" was radioactive or something.
assbot: viXra.org e-Print archive, viXra:1504.0072, “The Majority is Enough” a Rebuttal of Two Proposed Vulnerabilities of Bitcoin Mining ... ( http://bit.ly/1aqXbRI )
mircea_popescu: you're like the guy going "so mp you're saying the perpetuum mobile could not exist because X ?" sure, x if you want it.
mircea_popescu: i'm never going to be able to show you ALL the things that are wrong wqith it, being that it's nonsense.
mircea_popescu: lobbes no dude, i am saying about 50 other things.
funkenstein_: did kaminsky do anything other than allow his name listed as technical advisor?
bitstein: gave a long answer describing the fork and giving lip service to this new consensus mechanism in the works, but failed to address the second part. So before they moved on, I followed up, “But right now, Stellar is a centralized system?” He begrudgingly responded, “It runs on one node, yes.” After my question they all went right on back to talking about how awful centralization is and how great the decentralized future is.
bitstein: At SXSW, I snuck into a Bitcoin 2.0 panel Jed McCaleb was on. During the Q&A I got up and asked, “Last December the Stellar blog had a post called ‘Safety, liveness and fault tolerance—the consensus choices’ that described how there was a fork in the ledger and subsequently, Stellar had essentially collapsed into a centralized system. Can you elaborate on what happened and why people should trust Stellar in its aftermath?” He
Adlai: painting this picture of a mining commons on the brink of tragedy
Adlai: according to the papers' model: there is no incentive to be the first attacker, but there is incentive to be the Nth, N+1st, etc
lobbes: 'but evidently its search-and-replace missed many instances where the code still says 'ripple.' < l0l
bitstein: Still cracks me up: "There are at least 177 instances in which ripple and stellar’s code matched up. In its haste to get its currency established, Stellar simply copied ripple’s open-source code but evidently its search-and-replace missed many instances where the code still says 'ripple.'" http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/
bitstein: "Is the new system live? Not yet."
lobbes: so the 'attacker' is disincentivized due to this rising cost, and the fact that 'statistically' he is being outed by not finding his shares at the expected rate (thus, reputation suffers)
Adlai: this is expensive for the pool operator because he needs to send redundant work units to various miners, to get them checking eachother
Adlai: with "the defense" taking some form such as a pool operator negrating a miner who has an unreasonable dropoff of share-finding luck just below the difficulty threshhold
Adlai: if miners and pool operators choose to conduct such attacks against eachother (note that the attacks are against eachother, not against "bitcoin"), they can be fought... the attack becomes more expensive, and mining becomes more expensive, due to the defense
lobbes: but to Adlai's point, could there not be one derp out there who 'withholds' enough until that 'one day' to make it worth it (in his eyes)?
lobbes: re: withholding blocks. So basically, mircea_popescu, you are saying that anything gained from withholding said blocks would be outweighed by the potential destruction of one's reputation (which is expensive to build)?
mircea_popescu: mats well, it's training, i gather. trainee pieces aren't either useful or valuable, per se. so you're not really "buying" anything.
mircea_popescu: yeah, herp, contact "us". who the fuck are us.
mats: heh. tacit admission that you can't buy this kinda time either way, imo.
mircea_popescu: ah, finally found the truely iconic max hardcore. http://38.media.tumblr.com/420b56522634f8c1627ed7a7cbbf8aa2/tumblr_nf7a5gTifT1tlw46uo1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: dude with the article must have had some pretty odd searches in the past. my "google images" for princess leia consists of 20 hits of the woman wearing some sort of white overalls, with the 17th being her in actual atire.
mircea_popescu: fwiw, i had no idea leia is supposed to be anything BUT the slave chick.
mircea_popescu: http://www.hitfix.com/comedy/the-terrible-unspoken-implications-of-star-wars-slave-leia << muy butthurt.
mircea_popescu: which is what this is : inexistent problems that don't exist being misunderstood as existing by people who don't understand how anything works, and then failing to see that even should they exist, the solution also exists.
mircea_popescu: but the problem is solved by a wot.
assbot: Logged on 09-04-2015 12:34:19; Adlai: the only way to _verify_ that your miners haven't withheld blocks, rather than trusting their word for it, is to check those nonces yourself
Adlai: a when the same merkle root shows up again?
mircea_popescu: so i give you nonces 1-100 to hash , and fluffy nonces 101-200. and you report nothing found, and he reports nothing found. and then one day a block on nonce 76 is found and you are forever fucked.
Adlai: the only way to _verify_ that your miners haven't withheld blocks, rather than trusting their word for it, is to check those nonces yourself
Adlai: the really funny bit from the (second) paper is "This would push miners to join private pools which can verify that their registered miners do not withhold blocks"
mircea_popescu: and that's my point here : these are discussions of no substance used by reddit dorks to be discussing things.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony yes fluffs, in a game theoretic universe where cows are spherical and it rains glass, one could accidentally make a cow snowglobe.
mircea_popescu: Adlai the "withholding" thing is idiocy of prime order. it existe,d historically (ie, cca 2011) and was a problem for early pools. but it was SHARE withholding, not block withholding. it was fixed meanwhile.
fluffypony: miners configure their mining setup with failover pools, but it failsover based on latency as well as a pool being unreachable
fluffypony: DDoS isn't a solved problem for Stratum, and especially not for mining where latency is of the utmost concern
mircea_popescu: the cost of 1) is what, 100k ? 500k ? the cost of 2) is what, 100k ? 500k ? the benefit from the gained market share is... what ?
mircea_popescu: as a result of 1 and 2, 50% of people mining on B move, leaving it with 11% hash rate. the resulting 24% difference moves to pools, 90% of which are A's.
mircea_popescu: now, pool A does the following :
mircea_popescu: fluffypony let's see this. pool A has 25% of hash rate. pool B has 30% of hash rate. there's 45 other pools each with 1%.
fluffypony: Pool A won't attack Pool B and then put out a blog post bragging about it
mircea_popescu: right. so people don't care unless they do ?
fluffypony: they're not talking about a situation like that
mircea_popescu: yet they're gone.
mircea_popescu: i mean... they should still be here, riught ? they owned a year ago, right ? what happened ?
Adlai: it may indeed be a DoS on minds, withholding relevant problems by suggesting subtly irrelevant ones in their stead
mircea_popescu: fluffypony if miners actually don't care, how do you explain 50btc/btcguild's demise after their collusion with gavin last year ?
mircea_popescu: Adlai the attack itself, as a model, does not work.
Adlai: and they can't credibly say "we're not withholding blocks from competing pools", only "our submitted shares are not suggestive of such an attack being performed against us"
mircea_popescu shrugs. derps in reddit care who said god hates faggots. yet people who actually have stuff riding on this don't care about stuff that matters. i dunno, seems rather anecdotal.
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: "miners care deeply who owns a pool" - we're getting into the realm of the anecdotal here, the mining farms I supply ASIC racks to don't care about the people running the pools they use at all, and they don't run their own
Adlai: afaict, the only people who can credibly back up such a statement are pool operators
funkenstein_: the real equilibrium is to send zero of your miners off to throw their hash rate at nothing