asciilifeform: does anyone remember the 'igonvalue' [sic] debacle ?
Chillum: to do otherwise would be foolish
asciilifeform: Chillum: it is free in the sense that bullets in a border guard's machinegun are 'free.'
Chillum: it is based off of a license that require derivitive works to follow the same license so I think it is\
mircea_popescu: the reason is that... as decimation points out... nobody gives a shit about wikipedia
Chillum: If the free content isn't good enough, sour lemons for you
mircea_popescu: Chillum last i saw the begging campaign, it was a very pointed "sucks we can't afford 1/100000000 of what google can"
Chillum: well it is a serious acedemic project aimed at making the realm of copyrighted free and available to all
asciilifeform: a list of the correctness of a culture << precisely. it is a -standards document-
mircea_popescu: i object to the spurious pretense that wikipedia is anyuthing but myspace on white
Chillum: they have plenty of money for servers
Chillum: do you you object to how Wikipedia has made an encyclopedia or the concept of an encyclopedia itself?
mircea_popescu: but a list of the correctness of a culture.
mircea_popescu: this is what an encyclopedia is. not a piling of "information", as the acultural imagine.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> i wish to see the female alf. and her shoe collection. << lol, 'i wish to meet the female chingis khan and her sheep collection'
mircea_popescu: an encyclopedia, fundamentally, imposes a political hierarchy upon the world, and that of a known and verifiable pedigree.
Chillum: again you make a point and I strain to understand what it has to do with the conversation
mircea_popescu: wikipedia is not "pretty good by the standards of any encyclopedia", it is "pretty good by the standards of any encyclopedia that were not an encyclopedia but a wikipedia instead"
mircea_popescu: Chillum again, that an elephant which counts to three is pretty great as far as elephants go does not make this a mathematical discussion.
asciilifeform: but there is no such 'pedia'
Chillum: and seriously an article at the final level of completion is pretty damn good by the standards of any encyclopedia
asciilifeform: i would pay 10x for a version sans the garbage
mircea_popescu: the wiki people are definitorily subhuman.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a man-portable encyclopaedia (and Forth interpreter!) that runs on two batteries for several years and does not need the net seemed like a good idea.
mircea_popescu: also significantly not either usable or an encyclopedia.
Chillum: but we use categories to deliminate the different quality articles. Our "good article" category is significantly larger than any print encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: Chillum the philosophy is that you can aggregate meaning out of contextless snippets, by using self-propelled monkeys. this is so much nonsense.
mircea_popescu: i wish to see the female alf. and her shoe collection.
Chillum: the philosophy is get it first, make it good later. Though much never gets attention again
asciilifeform: it has a copy of the ascii portion of wikipedia snapshot circa year of production
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is there anything you didn't buy ?
Chillum: we have piles of crap, and then we have stuff we selected as core subjects to get attention
asciilifeform: i happen to own this toy: http://www.cnet.com/news/the-gizmo-report-wikireader-simple-singular
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://vilavi.ru/pes/aviamarsh/avi1.shtml << example. massive mega-historical-derp re: whether nazi stole an iconic song, 'aviators' march', from su, or vice-versa
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh there was a good bit of 2-way
mircea_popescu: bauhaus on the cheap = soviet prefab flats. from berlin to pakistan.
mircea_popescu: the soviets copied EVERYTHING.
decimation: my most direct expsoure was the 'bauhouse' letters used to teach me reading
Chillum: We admins have a saying over on the private wikipedia admin channel: Gurer vf ab pnony
mircea_popescu: Chillum i don't think that's the shade of caring he had in mind.
decimation: Chillum: is there anyone 'working' on wikipedia who doesn't want to 'control information'?
mircea_popescu: some other people have to see which common mistress is awake to bail the couple out.
Chillum: I did not even consider getting married till I met someone who would not try to control me but rather support my bond villain like ambitions
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's relevant support. the support of people you're not intimate with is worth about as much as the word of people not in the wot.
Chillum: they are fucking rare
asciilifeform: anyway, i'll concern myself with this detail soon after i decide whether to use xenon or argon in the maneuvering ion engines for my mars lander.
mircea_popescu: in strict contrast to the woman he had before, that bogged him down.
mircea_popescu: and it's unclear they actually need anything. slim is the controlling example. chick empowered bogart.
asciilifeform: and they don't 'cost' power, but you need it
mircea_popescu: this isn't strictly chillum's "she helps with the rent". recall convo re 40k ?
asciilifeform: but you still -need to be powerful- to keep a harem. in that you need the 'extra electron shells' to attract it with.
mircea_popescu: 3.8bn of them
asciilifeform: where? the congo ?
mircea_popescu: decimation sadly usg is not directly involved. this is more "let's make vague laws to satisfy an abstruse expectation of good". the only result is, whenever contrary interests meet, the provider is caught in the middle.
asciilifeform: what do you mean "have to work with" ? << some folks can afford a palace and a stable of pets to cultivate therein; others - yellow pages, when they get 'bonus' salary. on holidays.
mircea_popescu: the us legal system has managed to put anyone trying to provide services into this position of "fucked either way".
decimation: mircea_popescu: is this related to the dcma thing?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i know, i'll be suing a dc, moving the thing etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's again put it in terms of sex. given the choice does it seem a better strategy to keep long term warm intimate relations with a long list of sluts, or does it seem more workable to just keep the yellow pages close and hope the massage salon person understands what you mean ?
asciilifeform: but short version is that to have 'volunteers' for english industry, they turned their countryside into the closest thing possible at their tech level to an open air gulag
asciilifeform: i will not re-tell the 'vagrancy laws' thing here, it is amply covered in the literature.
assbot: Logged on 24-11-2014 23:13:14; asciilifeform: ultimately, being a builder of industry at the 1917 (or even today's) tech level, fundamentally sucks. as in, the same way being in prison sucks. so stalin et. al. tried experiment: what if being a peasant sucked -more- ? and - it worked.
decimation: imagine being one of these young germans at dunkirk, watching the sad sacks from britianna derp around
asciilifeform: the english got a massive head start by having been the inventors of the turn-people-into-industrial-feedstock thing.
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 04:18:05; decimation: the contrast between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean-cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth – tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars."
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 04:18:04; decimation: the 'forced exercise' idea reminds me of a passage in the 'rise and fall of the third reich': "The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along the road betwee
asciilifeform: specifically as pictured in the film, even.
asciilifeform: it was the envy of the crippled ephialtes, who knows exactly what he is, for the healthy spartans.
asciilifeform: one of the reason the english nailed them with such vengeance, trashing the entire planet in the process
asciilifeform: unlike the english world, for example
asciilifeform: decimation: my understanding is that germany, like japan, had a few living scraps of functional tradition survive the 20th c. woodchipper
decimation: asciilifeform: they have an 'apprenticeship' system in germany too
decimation: 'they' being industrial positions in germany, etc
decimation: they can't be easily fired, generally treated with a degree of 'tenure'
decimation: asciilifeform: european welfare statism is fucktarded, but they do have a degree of escape from this treadmill
asciilifeform: when any approach other than arbeit macht frei is made countereconomic, don't be surprised when you get arbeit macht frei.
asciilifeform: why invest in people when you can catch them in the wild, use them until spent, throw out.
asciilifeform: or the replacement of slavery with wage slavery in general.
asciilifeform: naggum's 'managing an unskilled labor force means easy access to people who are skilled in whatever is needed right now, not an investment in people -- which leads to the conclusion that a programmer is only as valuable as his ability to get another job fast.'
decimation: I suspect the 'men-as-parts' strategy is primarily implemented by the aforementioned engineer managers with poor social skills
asciilifeform: men-as-fungible-parts ends up 'winning', at least in the short term.
Cummerbund: mircea_popescu: Do you mean if the subject matter is poor? I'm merely referring to sentence structure. I would at least like to pretend that the subject matter is okay
decimation: mircea_popescu: of course, most of the actual slave driving is directly done by.. engineers in management
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was written already, in a parallel universe where this was not the actuality.
mircea_popescu: someone should write a sf piece about a deranged capitalist who deliberately buys up software outfits to torture the engineers.
mircea_popescu: bad writing is just the outside manifestation of a dysfunctional mind.
asciilifeform: eers seemed to work reasonably well there. It's just not a business model in which I wish to be involved, at least not on the component-provider side. So after a year at Google I quit and returned to JPL.' << the once well-known erann gatt, aka ron garrett.
asciilifeform: a local frustration maximum. ... One of the reasons I decided to go work for Google was that they were not using Java. So of course you can guess what my first assignment was: lead the inaugural Java development at the company, what eventually became Google AdWords. ... And that was the end of Lisp at Google. In retrospect I am not convinced that he made the wrong decision. The interchangeable component model of software engin
asciilifeform: gramming in Java means a life of continual and unremitting pain. So I vowed I would never be a Java programmer, which pretty much shut me out of 90% of all software engineering jobs in the late 90's. This was OK since I was managing to put together a reasonably successful career as a researcher. But after Remote Agent I found myself more and more frustrated, and the opportunity to work at Google just happened to coincide with
asciilifeform: word "training" in relation to professional activities. Training is what you do to dogs. What you should be doing with people is educating them, not training them. There is a big, big difference.) To my mind, the hallmark of the interchangeable component model of software engineers is Java. Without going into too many details, I'll just say that having programmed in Lisp the shortcomings of Java are glaringly obvious, and pro
asciilifeform: 'One of the reasons I stayed at JPL for twelve years was that I was appalled at what the software industry had become. The management world has tried to develop software engineering processes that allow people to be plugged into them like interchangeable components. The "interface specification" for these "components" usually involves a list of tools in which an engineer has received "training." (I really detest the use of the
asciilifeform: eh, video is not the innermost circle of hell
mircea_popescu: but srsly, i can't for the life of me imagine a different way to run a tech corp these days.
decimation: yeah who are the lizards who run google?
decimation: well, to be clear, the chump market as represented by wall street fund managers
asciilifeform: or - worse - to the chump market.
asciilifeform: 'Using such inferior languages is like asking a chef who could have done wonders with any kind of raw materials, to use a dirty kitchen, a broken refrigerator with food that is about to die a second time, broken tools, and brownish tap water that tasted of swamp land. His first task would be to clean up the place. Creating food in there would be the furthest from his mind. That's how I feel about Perl and C++. I prefer to
decimation: asciilifeform: what fascinates me is the fact that even the higher management who is nominally 'free' find themselves enslaves to apple's paradigm (for example, making iphone clones)
asciilifeform: 'hired to solve problem' means that you are theoretically free to do it with a computer made of trained squirrels pushing trinary equations, so long as this fits the constraints set by the client.
asciilifeform: regardless of the pay
asciilifeform: more to the point, anyone hired with a public advertisement in reference to particular programming languages is hired as meatrobot
asciilifeform: decimation: i did not say that nobody solves problems at 'google.' merely that no one is hired to 'solve problem.' rather, folks are hired as fungible meat robots.
decimation: it's a bit late there isn't it?
decimation: are you from the uk?
mircea_popescu: dude... somewhere there must be a lawyer who legally changed his name to
decimation: I suspect what happens at google: many people write and re-write the same bits of software
mircea_popescu: on one hand, their patent inability to come up with anything worth the mention since adwords would be concerning. on the other hand, naggum's observation that you wouldn't know smarter than you if it hit you on the head holds a lot of water.
mircea_popescu: its not altogether clear what all happens at google.
decimation: asciilifeform: by "nobody solves problems at google" I assume you mean in the "from first principles" sense?
mircea_popescu: teaches me to bitch at dwarves for their dubious tech choices.
decimation: she's a woman, her mug is plastered on the webpage
Chillum: I think defendants should be allowed to permit the offended party to smack them in lue of charges
Chillum: just like if he snuck into the office at night and changed the blackboard, a silly prank, still illegal, light sentence appropriate
mircea_popescu: they're not allowed to.
Chillum: I would hope that the sentence reflect the seriousness of the crime... 48 hours probation and a stern "Don't do it again!"
Chillum: capturing a WPA packet legal, cracking password from that packet legal, logging into the network - criminal unauthorized access
Chillum: it is from some computer law from the 80s or 90s
decimation: being as how the journalist is likely retarded
decimation: it would be interesting to know exactly what they are charging him with
Chillum: if he broke into the staff office to change the blackboard it would still be breaking and enetering
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095683 << holy shit is this the onion ?!
decimation: the thing that struck me as weird about the eu (comparied to the us) was how compact little towns are, and how rural the countryside is
Chillum: it is all new growth but there are so many ways away from people if you pick one at random you won't see anyone
Chillum: The island I am on has logging everywhere but with a 30 year recovery period. So there are logging roads everywhere that are abondoned for the last 10-29 years
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Center of the University campus there is a forest. with nothing more than dirt trails and occasional bridge. Fastest way to get from one side to the other is traversing the woods. Because of USian automobile-subdivision town planning outside of downtown most residential areas are separated by virgin-ish woods
mircea_popescu: which... it does. they tell legends of women that could suck a golf ball through a garden hose, but new york regularly sucked the jew riding a camel through the eye of a needle.
Chillum: the manner in which a city treats you is directly related to how savvy you are
mircea_popescu: "the city sucks"
mircea_popescu: myeah, seems they do.
decimation: mircea_popescu: I would note that singapore exhibits all the signs of burning through their 'stored fuel'
gribble: SIU warns campus about deer attacks - The Daily Illini : News: <http://www.dailyillini.com/news/article_4f40f150-c23e-5ae1-812a-a0ee8beeb873.html>; Three Injured In Deer Attack On SIU's Carbondale Campus | ksdk.com: <http://bit.ly/1brxlYz>; Deer attacking students at SIU - tribunedigital-chicagotribune: <http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-06-17/news/0506170326_1_fawning- (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: Chillum: This is a rural/Suburban border town. Deer cull very effective here. Now when I lived in Carbondale... Deer raided the garbage dumpsters more than the raccoons did.
Chillum: I used to do a bit of deep forest gardening. I would use capsicum liquid all over to keep the deer away
mircea_popescu: decimation the guy only died recently.
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Edging back garden with peppers handles deer/birds usually. As do the coyotes/feral cats. Getting drunk and pissing in yard handles coyotes.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:43:33; ascii_field: because the only approach that i believe to be correct, will result in something tangible only long after we are all dead.
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:43:08; ascii_field: trinque: the normal paradigm of investment and return fails here
Chillum: the "buttslol" password is from a lulu lemon show, they sell the spanks that make girls ass look good when they are not
mircea_popescu: have the pets wear chiffon, even better.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, I want serious "get off my lawn" power. Also tilling the garden hydraulicly would be pretty sweet.
Chillum: lol, the Victoria fire department(different than my dads) got a water canon. First fire they took it out they fired it at a window, missed and knocked down the wall
Chillum: lol so you get to your parking spot and start search ing the area?
Chillum: which fills the car
Chillum: fire hoses of course pour water out every surface so they don't burn
BingoBoingo: Both Parents were EMTs at various points in their careers
Chillum: the parking breaks were on, it moved anyways. lotta smoke
Chillum: I was 12 when my dad invited me to come along to a fire. When we got there he made me get out fo the truck then pushed a car away from a fire hydrant with the truck
mircea_popescu: actually so dangerous to drive half full they never do
Chillum: you just need a reason for the big tank
mircea_popescu: i hear they get free sex shows.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It turns into a crude glass and absorbs heat energy in the course of that. Worthless if on wooden desk, pretty useful if on bare concrete
Chillum: BingoBoingo: the sand is mostly about preventing molten metal from flying out. It does not smother it because it has its own oxygen
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Lithium batteries are like forest fires. You can try to contain the damage by keeping them from spreading. Also sand is an extinguishing option.
Chillum: the number were chosen for simplicity
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:29:20; trinque: chart a course towards the smallest of them, and towards selling it as well
mircea_popescu: that would be 10-20 people in the 10k.
Chillum: that depends on how clear the pattern is
Chillum: there are probably less evil applications too
Chillum: and all with no concept of what the information actually means
Chillum: say you have sent out 10,000 spams to people and 200 answered. You put all the info about those people into it and who answer and who did not. It can then be given a list of other people with the same kind of information and figure out who is more likely to respond
mircea_popescu: "ascii_field: the only thing i can promise for the $trillion is: more material for the next fella to work with" << oddly, this sounds exactly like social studies.
Chillum: but the resources it has are enormous
Chillum: the tech has improved only a little(mostly optimizations) since machine learning was invented
mircea_popescu: Chillum from what i hear it's the same process they use to "detect terrorism" nowadays.
Chillum: it has its limits but it find patterns in a way not other computer technology can
mircea_popescu: Chillum im not so sure the aws "machine learning" works much better than sussman's tic tac toe machine
BingoBoingo imagines NiFe in shitty rusted file cabinets in the shed with the lawnmower is a much better place
Chillum: I am wracking my brain to think of a good use for machine learning, I like to play with all the new AWS toys
mircea_popescu: "Basement is probably the worst place for a massive battery bank and lithium worst way to do it." << word.
Chillum: it seems skynet is mostly interesting in the status quo
Chillum: bilogocial computers are on the way
Chillum: oh well that is another story
mircea_popescu: the ancient thread is re dragonflies
Chillum: and that the best way to simulate a brain with a computer is to simulate atoms, ie not very efficient
Chillum: early in computer science it was believed that computers were like brains and that with enough resources they could simulate one. As we progress it becomes more and more clear that brains are nothing like a computer
mircea_popescu: something off trilema, somewhat better. otherwise... recall that klingon line pw that got got ?
Chillum: wetware is an interesting idea but the further we go in technology the less likely it seems to be
Chillum: "I went out the door and got my mail" <-- terrible... "If I went to the market I would buy bananas and then go south to the dry cleaner" much better
mircea_popescu: humans are great at telling stories and horrible at telling anything but the same ones.
mircea_popescu: i suppose we could put the string through teh entropy tests... but no, doesn't look like it's 8/8.
Chillum: but we are married, you do the math
assbot: Does going “off the grid” actually help the climate? | Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists ... ( http://bit.ly/1JxCZKj )
BingoBoingo: http://thebulletin.org/does-going-%E2%80%9C-grid%E2%80%9D-actually-help-climate8191 << I wonder if Tesla is going to market sane NiFe to homeowners or instead going to create the greatest national fire hazard in history. Basement is probably the worst place for a massive battery bank and lithium worst way to do it.
BingoBoingo: whaack: GPUs to password has is the solution when you don't have access to person with password and an anthill
Chillum: though you roll the dice on used cards
Chillum: a lot of ebay auctions for top of the line video cards saying "Bought it for bitcoin mining, asics came out"
Chillum: I love how many cheap used GPUs are being sold by miners who got on the bus late
BingoBoingo: Hah, a hack is when you use a pck of dragonfly brains in parallel to acelerate the search for good porn.
BingoBoingo: Graphics cards were never really "hacked for hashing" Bitcoin just came along on the exact time AMD graphics cards came into their own as massively parallel compute devices
Chillum: the amount of information someone and relay to a sketch artist about a persons face is in the hundreds of Kb, but our brain has hardware acceleration for faces and we can't normalize the data ourselves
BingoBoingo: full sentence not typed into box, just the dice words.
Chillum: it could be stronger if you asked it for more entropy. It creates the password with the entropy you request
Chillum: the bitcoin brain wallet with a lot of deposits and withdrawls
Chillum: the idea is that humans can remember more entropy when it is in a story form
Chillum: I saw a nice talk about a password creator that created small sentence fragments from very long lists of words. The user could enter the words in any order and with known mispellings and it would still pass. All while making sure you get the requested entropy
Chillum: though the vowel consonant grouping is a bit suspicious
Chillum: given that the code in question was a machine generated e-mail verification code I would say you should start eating someones pet
whaack: i use word lists for passwords, i have a decent understanding of information theory
whaack: that's the verification code for my email
Chillum: using numbers only adds entropy when you randomly selecty them from the same set as the letters
hanbot: if there's 10^26 bits of entropy in that thing I will eat someone's pet.
trinque: whaack: so I might have a theory on why you can't keep your nicks
Chillum: there are 26 letters and 10 numbers. Number have less entropy
Chillum: on the internet, nobody knows you are a dog
Chillum: I am not tame either. I am insidious
mircea_popescu: it happens to exactly match the earlier female survival discussion.