menahem: some things need the luv, or they deteriorate. much like buildings, roads, etc. much won't sustain without the maintenance.
menahem: pete_dushenski maintenance contracts - no good ? i love selling them. :)
pete_dushenski: for the ignorant, what's 'sputtering' ?
asciilifeform: also visited a place where they did sputtering.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform ugh 'maintenance contracts'. perhaps the only thing more blood-sucking than a mortgage
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: it also matters, for what. usually these things need 3-phase mains, cooling water, often - a handy dewar with ln2, maintenance contract, etc.
menahem: pete_dushenski ive got a good assistant now.. freed up some time. ;) and agreed, my bad on the >>, it's an email thread.
asciilifeform: item in the chamber was, i think, a dragonfly
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: creature in the photo is pet, not owner of instrument
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Your emotions are irrelevant, and you've missed the point - Chedr ... ( http://bit.ly/1QuBrFK )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell menahem re: http://chedr.ca/2015/04/your-emotions-are-irrelevant-and-youve-missed-the-point/ << 1. dunno why i didn't see the trackbacks from this... 2. kinda hard to read with all the >>>>s 3. a blogger is you!
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110941 << interestingly, i asked about the cost. was told something like '$1m for the old style, 2.5 for the new generation.' fella said this with straight face, too, as if there were nothing remarkable about this factoid.
williamdunne: Ideal, well I can definitely get that done, not a big job. I'll see if there is any standardized way to get RSS to provide a full history
williamdunne: It won't cover all of history though, most of the RSS feeds only cover 5-10 posts each
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user gabriel_laddel to user Naphex: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=gabriel_laddel&dest=Naphex | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Naphex | Rated since: Tue Apr 15 12:14:50 2014
Naphex: well fuck off then
gabriel_laddel: and perhaps I'll tell them to stfu and read?
Naphex: gabriel_laddel: maybe other people wanna know and ask questions
gabriel_laddel: Naphex: read the linked post if you'd like to know
Naphex: gabriel_laddel: hi o/ thanks for the links, what is Masamune? did you write it?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Narrated video of the poem ‘Stop all the clocks (again)’ | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1E5ZoN2 )
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell mircea_popescu on the contrary! http://www.contravex.com/2015/04/24/narrated-video-of-the-poem-stop-all-the-clocks-again/#comment-16132
asciilifeform: (if computing is any guide of the quantity and sheer vomitrous power of fecalia people can be persuaded to swallow)
asciilifeform: i mention it because i can imagine a world where such clocks are considered not only acceptable, but 'state of the art' and 'best practice'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: almost made the mistake of trying to catch the planes by that clock, but realized in time.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that clock i bought from the street spammer works about as well as ought to be expected. sometimes stops for 2,3,4,5+ hours - then runs... then, again...
gabriel_laddel: EVERYTHING you've thought on the subject has been covered.
gabriel_laddel: then read all of loper os
gabriel_laddel: Naphex: regarding security - read more. A few links that have turned up in the logs are available at http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html#sec-6-2-3
asciilifeform: trinque: doctor sometimes tells patient hard truths about where the latter is headed. but doctor can dispense dope to ease the pain. this is hard to do over irc.
asciilifeform: trinque: '... if you actually cause them to understand it in the course of a discussion, you will only make them miserable and hate their lives. People are pretty good at detecting that this is a likely outcome of thinking, and it takes conscious effort to brace yourself and get through such experiences.'
decimation: unfortunately no floating point unit, but that isn't needed for the target market here
decimation: one of the few 'open-cores' that isn't vaporware
decimation: there are full verilog implementations available, for future-proofing
asciilifeform recalls a number of these
decimation: there's an obvious tension between "we sell you cheap enterprise servers" and "we only support xeon"
asciilifeform: and will sell you the necessary x86 box, yes, 'in any colour you like so long as...' (TM)
asciilifeform: decimation: they operate under the dictum 'thou shalt not produce machine upon which microshit cannot run and in fact be the preferred or forced choice'
asciilifeform: in the log, somewhere.
asciilifeform: decimation: kakobrekla linked to a farm which takes orders even now, but i don't have the url handy
decimation: asciilifeform: supposedly there are moves to stuff thousands of little arm servers in a rack
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110783 << kakobrekla linked to one of these.
decimation: and then route packets through aws just for spam protection
decimation: actually I wonder how many folks use an old dell/hp server hosted at home on their cable modem
decimation: although in terms of raw compute power/watt they can suck
ben_vulpes: <ben_vulpes> there's nothing more undervalued right now than cheap old servers << okay fixd
decimation: as opposed to a 1u server you slip into the rack
decimation: usually with power, bus, network, etc supplied as part of the 'crate'
decimation: typically the word 'blade' is used for a computer that's mounted vertically in the rack, in some kind of proprietary container
ben_vulpes: usually i bolt them on directly, but i'm a barbarian and haven't actually derped much with physical servers.
decimation: ben_vulpes: how do you mount your blades to the rack?
Naphex: trinque: how do you keep the payment data secure?
ben_vulpes: built the whole thing himself, he did
asciilifeform: Naphex: the button << wai wat
ben_vulpes: menahem: blockquotes on your blog with the email formatting is a pita to read
trinque: decimation: yeah, the idea would be to replace tiny VMs I think
decimation: blades suck ass, but you can probably buy them from junk dealers for cheap
asciilifeform: naggum had an interesting observation about why folks very quickly bring out the 'parentheses pain' >> http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3138961746451885@naggum.no.html
Naphex: ben_vulpes: the button
ben_vulpes: what -- specifically -- hurts about the parens, naphex?
ben_vulpes: wow i've never heard that argument made in the wild
ben_vulpes: there's nothing more undervalued right now than cheap old blades.
ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> trinque: Oh like a stack of rPis in a server enclosure? << just start buying cheap old blades and racking them.
Naphex: what's wrong with them?
asciilifeform: the jvm advocacy
asciilifeform: Naphex: ... I ain't one to duke it out on irc for random bullshit << spewing garbage, on the other hand, is perfectly fine ?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ... prevention of fits-in-head << can vouch for the pita of this in clojure
decimation: Naphex: can you sign your name under the resulting machine code - all of it - that will 'filter' and 'app' the crap coming from your socket?
asciilifeform: again with the rituals and enumerated badness.
Naphex: anyway, what i was saying is you take steps 'secure' or tape your stuff always, and you don't feed raw data to your apps if you can filter the input beforehand.
trinque: if we're talking about how best to patch the raft we're riding in, sure, tape the thing and hope for the best
trinque: Naphex: it takes some humility to be able to see that while you may be able to reason about ipsec in the abstract, neither you nor anyone else can take the current computing stack and fit it in his head
williamdunne: Naphex: Isn't the general idea that you use end-to-end encryption not hub and spoke encryption
asciilifeform: Naphex: if you're interested in my concept in particular, see article 'don't blame the mice.'
asciilifeform: Naphex: if you actually would - straight to the logs.
Naphex: i'd like the learn
Naphex: preach me the 'secure' way please
Naphex: asciilifeform: how do you defend from 0days? on the stuff you host?
asciilifeform: mumble the words, sprinkle blood of virgin --- s3cur3!
trinque: I'm not going to copy and paste the last 20 lines of logs for you
trinque: the situation there is too complex for you or any other fool to be able to claim with certainty that it's secure
trinque: so atop your shit tower of an incomprehensible computing stack and a further incomprehensible virtual computing stack you what?
asciilifeform: but to get back to original thread, i wasn't even specifically thinking of 0days in the jre itself, but the overall turdification and prevention of fits-in-head that java inescapably leads to.
Naphex: asciilifeform: the languasge and jre are pretty fine. when it comes to enterprise stacks and j2ee it goes all around
Naphex: asciilifeform: there won't be any 0days in the basic stuff. There are rarely buffers in the stack. And everything is accounted for. NIO/events/the threads etc are all safe and you don't give raw user input to them
Naphex: asciilifeform: and you get all sorts of added on. as well the standerd jre is pretty clean. most of the exploiting fun is on j2ee app servers and other enterprisey thingies
asciilifeform: other than by -not using it-
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 18:29:26; mircea_popescu: not to even consider the fact that once this commodifies, the night discount goes away
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110320 << fits right in the the other 1,001 things that turn into turd ideas when 'everybody does it', like private automobile
trinque: asciilifeform: reminds me, you are the top result for "critique of clojure" on my googles at least
gribble: The Java Security Exploit in (Mostly) Plain English - Tim Boudreau: <http://timboudreau.com/blog/The_Java_Security_Exploit_in_(Mostly)_Plain_English/read>; Report: Half of all exploits target Java | JavaWorld: <http://www.javaworld.com/article/2104862/java-security/report-half-of-all-exploits-target-java.html>; Java and Java Virtual Machine security vulnerabilities ... - Black (1 more message)
Naphex: well its better to learn from best practices on these kind of things and drill down
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 18:22:57; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110187 << you know how the literary criticism goes, "don't tell, show". you've not really shown.
trinque: neither is boot time being fast relevant
Naphex: later you can keep on recompiling the kernel
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: sure configuring a kernel is a massive pain in the dick, but at least you get more acquainted with what's in there
trinque: recompiling the kernel 100 times is sop
Naphex: trinque: yeah but might as well just skip the kernel.
Naphex: mod6: i'd just do the chroot thing and getting it done. doing a custom kernel won't help you much running in a hypervisor
trinque: mod6: there may or may not be a flag to tell it to use a different config file, but by default it will use .config
mod6: ok qq: i saved the config as 'btc-dev-gentoo64-ami.config', under the chroot: /usr/src/linux ; do I need to do anything specific to ensure that I'm compiling with this config instead of the defaulted filename '.config' ?
trinque: it's a problem that from the perspective of trying to maximize occupancy is much easier to solve with the virtualization turd
trinque: that part might be retarded, and effort might be better put into anticipating what hardware needs to be on the racks already
trinque: that's where having racks that can rack/unrack hardware on the fly and a uniform backplane sounds appealing
trinque: so then, the nice thing about ec2 is you can spin up instances of various sizes and it "just happens" rapidly
williamdunne: Sure, just the general idea
trinque: not that I don't own many of them
williamdunne: Yeah I'm not aware either
trinque: williamdunne: yeah aside from the rpi being a particularly heinous device
trinque: williamdunne: I tend to think there's a place for metal as cheap as a micro ec2 instance for example
williamdunne: trinque: Wouldn't that be the same as any DC that offers cheap metal?
mod6: i don't even see the paravirtualized guest support option
trinque: I once worked for a company that was early (first?) in the server blade space; something like that where there's a uniform backplane which can host different configurations, maybe
mod6: i guess this is just my first attempt at it. this build of gentoo needs to built with nothing extra so we can build all of the rest by hand, then we'll have a clue as to what tool chain it's using and it's not using something wacky behind our backs.
mod6: yeah, i got that from the above convo about hypervisors. thanks.
assbot: Your emotions are irrelevant, and you've missed the point - Chedr ... ( http://bit.ly/1DnrEXF )
menahem: seeing as everyone is posting their blog love, i did write this today: http://chedr.ca/2015/04/your-emotions-are-irrelevant-and-youve-missed-the-point/ (brings up mircea_popescu 's discussion on RIPple with W3C)
mod6: yeah, not on this machine. i'll probably end up creating a totally seperate 32bit instance at another time.
trinque: what's the title
trinque: dunno them by number :)
trinque: mod6: I tend to use the hardened profile along with a hardened kernel
mod6: trinque: going throught this 'building a gentoo ami' guide... any thoughts on the "Select system profile" section? I was about to pick #11...
wyrdmantis: williamdunne: I appreciate the "Lego Under the Giant's Feet" header among other things. And the paypal post also :)
williamdunne: Wyrdmantis: Thanks for the words earlier.
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 18:27:00; mircea_popescu: cazalla dude the http://qntra.net/archives/ page kicks ass.
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110314 <<< this is just the default manner wordpress creates an archive page, i think, unless bb made changes
williamdunne: While comparisons between bitcoin and a party fully of popped-collars are fine it doesn't really answer the question
williamdunne: I guess what missing from it is that I still don't see why the increase in block-size, or easier access to running a semi-node is inherently bad
williamdunne: depredations of the vile capitalists, ultimately serving only their own cronies at the expense of both those who funded their campaigns and those who voted for them. " heh
williamdunne: "I am not saying that the needs of the many will not be heard or, when they're justified needs, attended to, but I am saying that they must be channeled through their liege lords instead of democratically elected "representatives" who solicit donations from the rich by promising to protect them from the ravages of the destitute mob, and votes from the destitute mob by promising to protect them from the
ben_vulpes: the point is a constrasting of how people use keys (properly) and how people use trezors (improperly)
williamdunne: http://thethug.life/reputation-commodity-exchange/#fn:1 << bro do you even airgap? << Me? Not for my personal key anyway
mircea_popescu: i know that if i'm the guy where the buck stops (usually rendered as "ceo" in anglocircles) then god damned are my opinionsmandatory for the whole organisation. wtf else are we even doing.
mircea_popescu: and whence is mimex to get OTHER opinions from ? you got a coo ?
mircea_popescu: "CEO MIMEX, opinions displayed do not reflect those of MIMEX" << what sense does this make ? if the opinions of the ceo are not mandatory for mimex, then what does "ceo" mean ?
ben_vulpes: http://thethug.life/reputation-commodity-exchange/#fn:1 << bro do you even airgap?
ben_vulpes: heh without trust there *is* no product.
mircea_popescu: the trustworthyness of the operator is first. liquidity second. features maybe third tho ideally the thing should be just open and anyone can build their own features.
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: I'd disagree, while liquidity is important when it comes to profiting through trading there are features that matter, i.e leverage
assbot: Venture Backing isn't enough if no-one wants your product — Lego Under the Giant's Feet ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBv81B )
ben_vulpes: http://thethug.life/product-before-capital/ << an add'l note on the exchanges is that the product here is of necessity undifferentiable except with how liquid your shit is
mircea_popescu: (what i mean is, you don't get the option ot have some here and none there. if you have some, it's everywhere)
williamdunne: I think I covered the WoT a bit (well, GPG contracts) in 'Your reputation is a commodity'
mircea_popescu: make it the job of banks to police, etc.
mircea_popescu: puts the entire serenissima vs nato dispute in much better contrast, from this angle. they want to infect everything with everything,
mircea_popescu: take discrimination and put it in the wot <-> currency has no business discriminating.
williamdunne: Sure thing, well someone had to make use of the gTLDs
mircea_popescu: williamdunne so add it to the scoop
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: I too have the capability to write, even if I'm not as eloquent as most here
mircea_popescu: but nevertheless, here we are.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi why this is the case, seeing how on the plain consideration immutability is a very retarded concept,
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes there's a wider point here btw : the internet has been slowly evolving towards immutability. this trend is visible high and low - curtis yarvin's attempt to "remake bitcoin in his own yard" did not miss this point, the general response of the fetlife cattle to the meatlist is a very sound "internet is immutable", the wind is there.
williamdunne: Okay, Scoop will now fix himself in the event of my connection dropping
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=WDW | WDW. an acronym for the expression: "Whatever, dude. Whatever." Used to express contempt. Nate: Where were you for so long? Chris: I was banging your ...
ben_vulpes: as in bible of the commoner?
ben_vulpes: are you making a reference to the bible translation?
mircea_popescu: kinda what the vulgate is.
ben_vulpes: is all of the above not...elementary?
assbot: Logged on 23-04-2015 16:01:16; williamdunne: But in return you have more potential users of your XYZ business, and more potential to operate profitable businesses that are less-than-possible in the fiat world
mircea_popescu: now you gotta go back through the turd and pick up my lines :D
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for chetty with note: engineer of the world that was.
ben_vulpes: !rate chetty 2 engineer of the world that was.
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for nanotube with note: runs the #bitcoin-otc web of trust.
ben_vulpes: !rate nanotube 1 runs the #bitcoin-otc web of trust.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for davout from 2 to 3 with note: you wouldn't believe how this man makes the girlies eyes twinkle.
ben_vulpes: !rate davout 3 you wouldn't believe how this man makes the girlies eyes twinkle.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mod6 from 2 to 4 with note: foundation co-chair.
williamdunne: Does the rating have to be an integer?
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for hanbot from 1 to 2 with note: saw this legendary valkyrie in battle mode one time.
mircea_popescu: "all of the democrati tools" < +c
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mats from 1 to 1 with note: skeptic, sapper.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mthreat from 1 to 2 with note: shared a cab with this pleasant chap one time.
mircea_popescu: depends present day of what. but yes, financially, it's more of a promise-to-impact, since the shanghai thing
mircea_popescu: really, the impact of mtgox on anything to do with bitcoin, its "price" y compris, is broadly overstated.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes "and the Bitcoin ramp to 1200 proved to be an artifact of a fractional-reserve exchange, for just two examples." << this doesn't make sense, because the exchange was fractional in btc not in fiat.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for pinkposixpxe from 1 to 1 with note: lent a hand with some bash.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for moiety from 2 to 1 with note: rip
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for asciilifeform from 2 to 4 with note: inventor, dreamer, builder, axe-man.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for phf from 2 to 1 with note: lisper.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for princessnell from 2 to 1 with note: coulda been a contender.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mike_c from 2 to 3 with note: kindred derper in fiat.
mircea_popescu: people who do it intentionally, after we're done with the clueless set.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 3 to 4 with note: steward of la srenissima.
mircea_popescu: i blame the dry wood.
mircea_popescu: worse, much much worse than any deliberate scammer. the naive is the absolute shit of the world.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ty, i'll have words with the copyeditor
williamdunne: 1/3 of the fund will be trading altcoins.. lol
mircea_popescu: tell the guy he is an imbecile.
williamdunne: I feel bad, because the person he's doing the 'fund' with is actually a decent guy. Been dragged in with his shit
mircea_popescu: that muppet... i have no idea how he and his gf/announcer aren't in jail over the auroracoin scam
mircea_popescu: "is the hallmark of fiat psyops hell-bent on undermining their control of the monetary base. " << ben_vulpes come again ?
mircea_popescu: yeah. works too, for the sort of muppets who pass along referrers
williamdunne: I especially like the fact that their "solution" seems to be 422'ing anyone who is referred by trilema
williamdunne: Sent them an offer to fix it for 10 BTC
mircea_popescu: williamdunne but they have been dutifully banning their users (for saying anything but "this guy is horribru" and "what a violation!"). from what i hear the bancount's climbing well past 100 by now
assbot: The Bitlove LLC spin on their recent implosion, as presented to their captive audience. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PBmy2M )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-bitlove-llc-spin-on-their-recent-implosion-as-presented-to-their-captive-audience/ << there, actuallky discussed
williamdunne: What skills? You literally told them how to do it..
mircea_popescu: was funny too, the derps were like "HE DOESN:T HAS TEH SKILLSss!11!1"
williamdunne: What the fuck
williamdunne: They haven't patched it yet?
williamdunne: Have you already scraped the info or..?
mircea_popescu: the more you cut the clerical costs, the more the actual job of banking gets expensive.
mircea_popescu: those aren't the costs.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Surely a lot of the costs can be massively reduced now? Wasn't exactly much automation in the 15th century
williamdunne: How many volumes are there going to be?
assbot: The Fetlife Meatlist - Volume VI on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1z0Lvk0 )
scoopbot_revived: News! The Fetlife Meatlist - Volume VI URL: http://trilema.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-vi/
mircea_popescu: look at the sad sad story of medici bank.
mircea_popescu: you know, think in the more accessible terms of a hospital.
menahem: what would be some of the major challenges ?
mircea_popescu: in any case the actual costs to running a bank aren't in getting the certificate. you gotta have the damned bank.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for ssateneth from 3 to 2 with note: trade.