gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell menahem you really don't know how to bother girls.
mircea_popescu: "We're going to co-opt the technology, OK? End. Of. Story." lolk.
jayk: are there any places that do instant ACH?
mircea_popescu: the good news being that if you stick to it, it'll improve.
mircea_popescu: " off the top of my head the United Kingdom, South Africa, Singapore, India, and China have instant and cheap (in many cases free) bank transfer systems." << nonsense. your example is SEPA. rest sucks by comparison. (or gyropay before that).
mircea_popescu: sounds more like the latter.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, ya the taps, hitting ya head on that shit ain't fun
midnightmagic: so they tell me
mircea_popescu: but hey, they got all these things because can't show fucking on tv, because usians are retards.
jayk: there are grassy parts
cazalla: jayk, beach sex is the shittiest sex in my experience
jayk: so i took her to the beach and we stripped down
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Kavorka | (Pronounced Kah-vor-kah) The Kavorka is a word which originated from the Latvian Orthodox. It means "the lure of the animal". It is described as a curse, making ...
mircea_popescu: cazalla it's a thing, greece has > 9k islands, about half of them have a church on
cazalla: mircea_popescu, i guess so, figured you had the kavorka yourself but guess not :P
mircea_popescu: "Unfortunately unlike Bitcoin there is no reputation Trezor." << a) trezor's kinda dysfunctional/derpy ; b) of course there is. airgapped gpg.
jayk: hot lesbo chicks will lift up their shirts
mircea_popescu: they nearly fell over.
jayk: girls were wearing them
mircea_popescu: williamdunne "inheritence" that takes an a, and moreover, the entire "transfer reputation" thing is muddied at best.
cazalla: jayk, i get the bandana, free bird shit but c'mon, take hat/bandana off in a casino or any establishment for that manner
jayk: though my hair had grown back by then
jayk: cazalla: i shaved my head and didn't like the way i looked
mircea_popescu: i'm really the best customer anyone could ever have. i tip, there's hot chicks, the works.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, but did ya have ya bandana on with ya feet on the table?
mircea_popescu: williamdunne "The cost of enforcement of contracts grows over time as an increasing number of loopholes are found - as described in an article by Mircea Popescu" you know you could ~link it~ o.O
mircea_popescu: what should you call them, pizza delivery worker ?
jayk: the delivery people
mircea_popescu: who, "them"
jayk: i got flamed for calling them pizza boy
mircea_popescu: proof of pizza, for fucks sake. all the money in pizza delivery is the god damned tips. nobody will ever deliver pizza to the sort of idiots who bicker about times randomly. if this is how it went, why not have "proof of latte" to make sure the barrista really did give you the latte.
mircea_popescu: just because particular memes are well suited to the mental vulnerabilities of the early mind and so are noteworthy to educators and psychiatrists does not mean they're also noteworthy to engineers.
mircea_popescu: other things sharing the same properties, "the free lunch", "democracy", "you can do anything" etc.
mircea_popescu: "It, together with smart contracts, has been let out of Pandoras Box never to return, never to be unlearned, no matter how badly some of us might want it to."
jayk: or if you can get them
mircea_popescu: yes turning them on is usually profitable.
jayk: i never liked the idea, and BFLY labs tried to do it
cazalla: jayk, let someone else bare the cost and just buy coins straight up
jayk: is it worth throwing any money at a mining pool these days with bitcoin being flat?
mircea_popescu: so described, it is rather clear that bitcoin can not in fact exist : immutability and entropy are mutually contradictory.
mircea_popescu: because that is the property here : same as entropy, bitcoin lacks the ability to review earlier states on the base of later states.
mircea_popescu: maybe the best description would be "immutable, fungible and entropic"
mircea_popescu: i would suspect maybe trustless is a misnomer. trust is not involved at all, the point is coherence. the system remains coherent, which is to say it does not fork into ambiguous states.
mike_c: cazalla: he got three things in a row without crashing. He's better than all the scoopbots combined :)
cazalla: made a irl scoopbot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C21PhQU6tjg (every parent thinks their kid is the smartest but i think this is good for 15 months)
mircea_popescu: also may be the only one with footnoted footnotes
mircea_popescu: i am probably the record holder for most footnotes in an article out of the entire interwebs
mike_c: the best footnotes plugin for WP is /dev/null
mike_c: oh, except for help text on tooltips on the headers. got to add that. but yeah, sorting is up, dates don't wrap in the tables anymore, and http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/all-users/
trinque: re: perl thread RLX control tower was all written in php, could multicast OS images out to 500 blades at once, and lots of other great shit
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 22:32:39; ben_vulpes: there's nothing more undervalued right now than cheap old blades.
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 23:37:19; williamdunne: It won't cover all of history though, most of the RSS feeds only cover 5-10 posts each
assbot: The Brave Little Toaster - Worthless (No Interruptions) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DxUHch )
asciilifeform cannot comment in detail, has no personal experience with then outside of machine shop tooling
asciilifeform: the one consumer crud item which (i am told) behaves in a similar way is - diamonds.
asciilifeform: but back to the machines, because i consider this a mega-educational moment - there are countless instruments where you can pay, e.g., 10k on 'ebay' but you can also pay 800k if you want new, with support contract, for the mandatory softs to not be considered pirated, etc., etc., (most of this is strictly usg)
asciilifeform: export market then.
mircea_popescu: especially in the us.
asciilifeform: there would be a 300 usd bmw if a) 500 people knew of bmw b) machine could only be driven on 100 particular race courses c) by a ph.d. or equiv. d) running on virgin piss
mircea_popescu: before smartphones, it was not uncommon to stop two people in the street whose clocks were 30 minutes apart.
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 23:21:58; asciilifeform: i mention it because i can imagine a world where such clocks are considered not only acceptable, but 'state of the art' and 'best practice'
asciilifeform: that is where the 300 bmw is.
mircea_popescu: so where's the 300 dollar bmws
asciilifeform: aha. just like the xyz robot i worked with
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 23:43:06; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110941 << interestingly, i asked about the cost. was told something like '$1m for the old style, 2.5 for the new generation.' fella said this with straight face, too, as if there were nothing remarkable about this factoid.
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 23:01:04; decimation: unfortunately no floating point unit, but that isn't needed for the target market here
mircea_popescu: the unmentionable matchsticks
asciilifeform: and l0l, apparently no one mentioned the matchsticks. so let this count as mention.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: are you ever going to post the Jerusalem follow-up to your Istanbul article?
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 22:44:55; decimation: usually with power, bus, network, etc supplied as part of the 'crate'
asciilifeform: ^ speaking of which, is anyone going to splatter out the c3 conversation re: computational sommeliers here ?
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 22:32:39; ben_vulpes: there's nothing more undervalued right now than cheap old blades.
asciilifeform: rather than computers
asciilifeform: but engineers who take an intense interest in 'in the end' tend to build autoguillotines.
mircea_popescu: that's the thing.
mircea_popescu: trinque re the dos point of sale, best breakfast p[lace here had one, made like 1985 or some shit
asciilifeform: but also for many other reasons, which i will not waste readers' time on.
asciilifeform: partly because perl proggies tend to be 'throw-aways' and absolve the author of the burden of actually carrying anything through to completion or (horror) supporting
asciilifeform: partly because it allows imbeciles to feel as if they are 'sticking the finger' to those boring 'squares' who actually take the time to think things through
asciilifeform: partly because it makes a convincing simulacrum of problem-solving, as (per naggum) hollywood special effects 'may as well be the real thing'
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: it is a mistake to describe perl as 'based on' anything in particular. it is soup, consisting of the entire contents of a crashed delivery van. soup reflective of what is to be found in the author's skullcase.
gabriel_laddel: While we're here, I'll note that being tied to text (perl) is quite limiting. On CLIM today I can tell any object how to "present" itself, i.e., how to draw itself on the screen. Such a thing is unthinkable in a language based around regexes.
asciilifeform: think this way - if the problem were entirely contained in an -available- set of abstractions of the language, the program would not need to be written!
gabriel_laddel: way less mental fatigue looking at them, I've found << I suppose. One can learn to read most anything. The importance here is the triviality of generating "syntactically correct" program texts.
asciilifeform: the unavailable one(s).
asciilifeform: one observation of mine is that the abstraction that most determines the shape of a program is
trinque: way less mental fatigue looking at them, I've found
gabriel_laddel: s-expressions + read tables are the ultimate notational abstraction
gabriel_laddel: checkout the scala "macro" system sometime.
trinque: it's a wonder I can hit the toilet with my ass
trinque: then went on to do python and ruby in industry
gabriel_laddel: <trinque> seems relevant to the lisp vs perl thing << ummm... the angle I'm attacking this from is that meta-programming is inescapable and sexprs are the only sane way to go unless you want to program forth or APL.
asciilifeform: trinque: because everywhere else on the planet 'object-oriented' is synonymous with 'profound retardation', yes
trinque: perl's an interface to a handful of problems, ignores other things
trinque: seems relevant to the lisp vs perl thing
trinque: but you could then go "oh but this is not a general interface with concepts applicable to any UI"
asciilifeform: i don't want to buy the office chair that is successful in cheaply making infinite copies of itself into the aeons. not unless it also parks my arse well.
trinque: he could enter things like i 52345 s <ent> 3 <ent> and that would add inventory number whatever to the ticket 2 times
mircea_popescu: i am merely pointing out that the perl-bashing has some serious problems in front of it.
asciilifeform: i just can't help but recall kreinin's piece re: how folks who are asking for meat-like architecture 'whether they want a tool, or electronic best friend or sex partner' and asked whether 'they had tried the selection of naturally-occurring ones first'
trinque: me either, lol
trinque: mircea_popescu: right, so we're talking about the difference between systems which try to be general solutions to (not sure how to articulate it) vs specific tools which live in a given niche?
asciilifeform: because designers did practically nuke the analogue soup. (yes, ram failures, etc. exist.)
mircea_popescu: trinque nah, it's not energetically efficient. try and power the jet off the bird's diet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's so deeply baked into the structure of the world, you'll never be free of it. << johnson noise, shot noise, etc. are intrinsic to electrical circuit. yet we have to sweat and build whole other box to get pc to cough up random bits.
mircea_popescu: could be punishment for the usg twerps. "you now have to program on this"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... there must be a reason for this. << same reason eagle doesn't have jet with afterburner in his arse
trinque: the whole of evolution unfolding each time
trinque: little blockchains themselves
mircea_popescu: trinque consider the ridiculous happenstance that all foeti have a god damned lizard tail two weeks in.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> that may be. i'm just pointing out that biology offers a very significant challenge to theoretical cs. << i must confess, that i am at a loss as to which aspects of meat we should like to replicate in machines: intransigence? toe fungus? pneumonia? schizophrenia?
mircea_popescu: trinque the main problem here is that for a large number of solid considerations, lisp would actually be a much better choice. moreover, the space alf referred to is indeed vast, but the processes narrow. in many spots the whole tree converges to a very very narrow bottleneck.
decimation: mainly because jimmy carter banned recycling because it contained the word 'plutonium'
trinque: mircea_popescu: seems like systems where there are a variety of ways to solve problems accept that they don't know the "perfect" way, if there is one
decimation: yucca mountain was a terrible idea, in the sense that storing nuclear waste instead of recycling it into fissile Pu is retarded
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user gabriel_laddel: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=gabriel_laddel | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=gabriel_laddel | Rated since: Sun Aug 3 11:48:26 2014
gabriel_laddel: I ended up trolling through gov. documents on the yucca mountain facility (I had previously quoted wikipedia)
trinque: yes, very expensive to the host body while it's being made
mircea_popescu: if you look in the proper context.
mircea_popescu: trinque except the product of reproduction is perhaps the most expensive thing there is
trinque: fast and loose is fine if the product is somewhat disposable?
gabriel_laddel: what aesthetic do you wish to live in?
decimation: how can anyone even make statements about what the female reproductive/baby system is doing without examining the results in each case, in molecular detail?
mircea_popescu: (because cunts obviously aren't free to choose what they use, so the need for perl must be way deeper than that)
mircea_popescu: but even if there isn't a reason for this : it's so deeply baked into the structure of the world, you'll never be free of it.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel this is a very minor point. the chief point, still standing, is that cunts still run on perl. there must be a reason for this.
gabriel_laddel: hence, they waste money
gabriel_laddel: this conversation is going in the direction of "heat death of the universe" so I'll note that companies that use e.g., scala have to hire a lot of people to regin in the complexity inherrent in ALGOL.
gabriel_laddel: so they waste a lot of effort doing it.
gabriel_laddel: they all have failed, and will continue to fail
gabriel_laddel: I should note that "they" (algol programmers) try to add the tree traversal properties of lisp to their languages
gabriel_laddel: (I'm assuming you're saying "why don't you think they don't - do tree traversals")
gabriel_laddel: because they're mentally defective
mircea_popescu: why do you think THEY don't ?
mircea_popescu: therefore...
mircea_popescu: perl people think they're using "structured data" too.
gabriel_laddel: I use strings all the time, don't use regexes
mircea_popescu: if you think about it, you said so yourself. "if you're /ever/ using them, you're doing it wrong."
mircea_popescu: (this, incidentally, would be the lisp/perl difference imo. lisp does not have strings, perl does not have sexprs. in spite of pretending on each side)
gabriel_laddel: I wouldn't dare draw that equivalence without agreeing on a formal definition for regexes and the process in question.
mircea_popescu: so you dispute that there's ready biologic equivalents of a regexp match ?
gabriel_laddel: not everything is the same thing.
mircea_popescu: take the simple fact that erycridine lactate induces abortion in any trimester, and without exception. if this isn't a regex gone wrong, what is ?
gabriel_laddel: It doesn't run on "perl" "perl" is a well specified computer program. Meat runs another separate well specified meat program.
mircea_popescu: and mind you, at issue is not whether we do or don't understand how reproduction works.
mircea_popescu: generally when an analogy need not enter into a conversation, it's a sign the conversation's broken.
gabriel_laddel: analogy need not enter into the conversation
gabriel_laddel: This conversation bothers me. We don't understand how to make dragonflies, nor how the reproductive system works. We know how to write computer programs that work - the failing to do the latter correctly is a human failing.
mircea_popescu: in the perl aspect of things.
mircea_popescu: that may be. i'm just pointing out that biology offers a very significant challenge to theoretical cs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if we get the stochasticity of meat, we also need to have the wide functional state space of meat.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, idea is that some people who can't even make dragonfly are in a weak position to teach grandmother to suck eggs, as it were.
gabriel_laddel: if you're /ever/ using them, you're doing it wrong.
mircea_popescu: and it's perl for exactly the specified reason, " the normal failure mode is to terminate with no idea how far into the process you got or how much of an incomplete task was actually performed"
gabriel_laddel: the reason we build abstract machines is because people are not very good at repetitive tasks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some of them do.
Pierre_Rochard: mircea_popescu: they created PCAOB - para-govt auditor of auditors - to avoid beheadings and only chop off fingers/toes. Beheadings will have to come exogenously. For log, background on lehman accounting fraud: http://drillingthrough.com/lehman/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty sure the example you cited is immunological
gabriel_laddel: yeah, I don't see the analogy to perl
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel no, no, we're talking about the reproductive system itself.
gabriel_laddel: you're talking about the women in question purposefully aborting her pregnancy?
mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard from what i see (and from what i know of these systems) there's periodically going to be a beheading.
assbot: Ernst & Young Settles With New York Over Lehman Brothers Repo 105 Deals - Forbes ... ( http://bit.ly/1HGnlP0 )
Pierre_Rochard: nah they’re too big to fail now, see http://www.forbes.com/sites/antoinegara/2015/04/15/ernst-young-settles-new-york-lehman-brothers-repo-105-deals/
mircea_popescu: think about it : foetuses are sometimes aborted. on the basis of reasons.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel how familiar with the process are you ? like, for instance, the simple (lol) ShouldAbort() function ?
assbot: Logged on 26-04-2015 02:51:20; mircea_popescu: what the fuck is deloitte even
mircea_popescu: i see nobody wishes to engage the cunt problem. but yes, IT DOES RUN ON PERL.
mircea_popescu: i think the female reproductive system runs on perl.
asciilifeform: ea how far into the process you got or how much of an incomplete task was actually performed. in my view, serious programmers don't deal with tools that _force_ them to hope everything works.' -- herr naggum who else
asciilifeform: 'certain languages support serious programmers, and others don't. e.g., I don't think it is at all possible to become a serious programmer using Visual Basic or Perl. if you think hard about what Perl code will do on the borders of the known input space, your head will explode. if you write Perl code to handle input problems gracefully, your programs will become gargantuan: the normal failure mode is to terminate with no id
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel perhaps you don't appreciate how deep perl goes, or how unaware perl-people are of their perl-ness.
asciilifeform: (will note, for completeness, that this won't fly on, e.g., embedded chip with 32kB. but most of the usual suspects aren't stuck on one such)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: dja see where there's a lot more room for documentation ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell thebutterzone yo, around ?
mircea_popescu: the linked this. "my concept in particular"
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 22:28:04; Naphex: anyway, what i was saying is you take steps 'secure' or tape your stuff always, and you don't feed raw data to your apps if you can filter the input beforehand.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110943 << but obviously "raw data" is not the only concern. right ?
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 22:14:03; asciilifeform: Naphex: if you're interested in my concept in particular, see article 'don't blame the mice.'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110867 << that's what the ruby on rails folk say too
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/category/bitcoin/ shows the lot but i suppose you don't like html cruft ?
williamdunne: Just shows the last 5
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2015 21:16:50; menahem: seeing as everyone is posting their blog love, i did write this today: http://chedr.ca/2015/04/your-emotions-are-irrelevant-and-youve-missed-the-point/ (brings up mircea_popescu 's discussion on RIPple with W3C)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110772 << or, for that matter, http://thewhet.net/2013/your-feelings-are-out-to-get-you/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: You may elect to opt-out of ongoing e-mail communication from us, by using a simple opt out procedure at the bottom of this email.
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone kept in touch with that bravetheworld chick ? danielpb1rron ?
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is deloitte even
decimation: asciilifeform: http://opencores.org/news,1420039286 < apparently the openMSP430 was used as the basis for an eu-manufactured rad-hard asic microcontroller for space
Pierre_Rochard: ^ They should start by securing president hussein’s email
decimation: "Mobile payments are a natural extension of the digital lifestyle, while protection against digital theft becomes an imperative for regulatory agencies around the world." < note usg mission creep
assbot: Deloitte: A Bitcoin Successor Is The Future Of Payments | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1HG4Bit )
scoopbot_revived: News! Deloitte: A Bitcoin Successor Is The Future Of Payments URL: http://qntra.net/2015/04/deloitte-a-bitcoin-successor-is-the-future-of-payments/
Pierre_Rochard: I was outraged because the reason they ignore quarter (and don’t raise an error!) is because there’s no convention as to whether the date should be the beg or end of the quarter. Month, week, etc do the beginning, why not adopt that as the convention!?
williamdunne: Its so easy to ignore the most simplistic bugs.. derpage galore.
Pierre_Rochard: williamdunne: had a similar head against wall bug yesterday, in pgsql: to_timestamp(‘2014-2’, ‘YYYY-Q’), doesn’t work because the docs clearly state “quarter (ignored by to_date and to_timestamp)” but it was three hours of desperate refactoring before I actually read them.
Naphex: having a annonymous ip is dandy. but no way anywhere near as enough. you still have to implement most of the stuff i said above especially the filtering part
trinque: Naphex: here's a good example by the way of what can be done with what we have: http://mpex.co/faq.html#18
trinque: Naphex: I currently cannot; it would first require being able to model the whole system in my head at once
trinque: Naphex: certainly, if one doesn't tape the raft's holes, he'll drown
williamdunne: I just spent 30 minutes trying to work out why the hell my DB connection wasn't working. I was editing the wrong fucking config file.
Naphex: and not by the NSA, by some kid with some scripts
trinque: I personally do not claim to have the answer, or I'd be typing from it
trinque: reading asciilifeform's blog and various excellent threads in the logs would be instructive there
trinque: it's just, what would be better than the complex wad we have currently?
trinque: Naphex: regarding earlier thread, things such as parsing inputs, putting sensitive data on networks that don't knock knees directly with the web, all great stuff
trinque: what is this obsession with making things safe, as though you don't still die in agony at the end?
trinque: "So what you're saying is that this currency of the future can destroy my savings because of an error and nobody is responsible?" << b-but, who will inforce what's fair?!
Pierre_Rochard: “Captains of the industry. If they were captains of any other industry, like say for example automotive, we'd have people dying in car crashes between two stationary vehicles."
assbot: vytah comments on Holy Satoshi! Butter pays 85Btc transaction fees for a 16Btc transaction. Is this the largest fee ever paid? ... ( http://bit.ly/1E6kISv )
menahem: lol, love is only increasing ! you being you (and like others in the wot) is bringing out the best in people.. even though they may not realize it this moment.
menahem: Are losing their cool and hating me,
menahem: "If I can keep it together when all and everyone
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for menahem from 1 to 2 with note: had drinks, had coffee, finally knocked sense into him.