Adlai: people became lazy... everything changed once the bitrot nation attacked
Adlai: back in the old days, there was no asdf:load-system... everything consisted of passing magic dispatch tokens to asdf:operate
gabriel_laddel: I have to check that I know what these terms mean before I respond. one sec
trinque: being able to reflect and consider things as sets, not the tree, is valuable
trinque: how in lips could you take the ast of a view against one table
gabriel_laddel: the purpose isn't what I'm horrified by
trinque: that's not the purpose of it at all.
gabriel_laddel: I'd like to clarify that what I'm finding appaling here is the huge amount of effort spent generating syntatically correct strings.
Adlai always found "business logic" reminiscent of "military logic" in the necessity of distinguishing it from plain simple old "logic"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: so give me the enforcement of logical structure in lisp
Adlai: I'm not sure there's any parsing involved
Adlai: (beyond the hours forever lost turning into weeks you'll never get back)
gabriel_laddel: I find the parsing to be a gigantic PITA
Adlai: what's wrong with extending code-is-data to another data format?
trinque: I'm surprised you find the relational model controversial.
trinque: gabriel_laddel: it's just a join between the tables that represent the grammar and the AST tables
gabriel_laddel: "automatic to-string for the ASTs"
trinque: so you can metaprogram like a motherfucker in an rdbms
trinque: along with automatic to-string for the ASTs
trinque: so one of the projects I built with that is a schema generator given some ebnf representation of a grammar
trinque: so yeah, you can just insert into that and alter the database arbitrarily
gabriel_laddel: as for the js ast
trinque: I can bitch slap your mistakes with constraints and the very structure of my schema
trinque: any atomic alteration of the state of it cannot be wrong
trinque: you lispfolk can rip the relational database from my dead hands
trinque: fwiw the best relational system is probably yet to be built, and is probably made of lisp
Adlai: trinque: make them all equal! tables of cons cells! cdr-coded self-joins!
gabriel_laddel: one could tear out all windows crud from SBCL, and replace the C crud with some clever assembler hacks in a manner similar to what I've been told T did.
gabriel_laddel: ^ this contains information about how to get a list of all hardware - the kernel can determine hardware -> driver mappings somehow. Find, document.
trinque: "I can't query over all commits" << man I yell about wanting to query the state of everything constantly
gabriel_laddel: Another useful thing someone could do is to figure out how we would go about generating a canonical hardware -> driver mapping
gabriel_laddel: Anyways, if someone were to move portage to CLOS detecting cycles is easy, hence we can have all the documentation we ever wanted
gabriel_laddel: If someone would like to make themselves useful and move us that much closer to a source-only #-assets distribution, a CL interface to portage is desperately needed.
gabriel_laddel: I'll note that I wrote a prototype for the RPC described above - ran into an issue with TCP or the library I was using it from. Messages were disappearing in flight.
gabriel_laddel: ^ anyway, all of the above are simple if you adknowledge that you've got to operate on an AST
gabriel_laddel: I should be able to have a cursor on either one of the (x 4) and hit a keystroke to extract it into a let binding
Adlai isn't sure "harder" is the right dimension
gabriel_laddel: Why isn't all this information part of the version control toolchain? I can't query over all commits to find those that changed `some-function'..? WHAT THE FUCK IS HTTP? All I want to do is expose a procedure to a network - how is this more difficult than selecting a list of procedures which are then exposed?
gabriel_laddel: l data structures to those appropriate for the information being pushed through it? If the type information exists, shouldn't it inform auto-completion? Shouldn't I be able to query over the type signature, known return types and lambda list of all procedures?
gabriel_laddel: is not be handled automatically? Why isn't there grammer/spellchecking for my comments? If I modify a package or system definition at runtime, shouldn't I be prompted to write that change to the defining expression? Why must I optimize my programs and add type annotations? Can't test data be used to add typing annotations in an automated manner? Can't this information inform modifications of the program's fundamenta
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 17:16:36; mircea_popescu: think about it. why the fuck should the code have to know about this. and if it does have to know about this, why aren't ALL the code references affected by any of such a change cross-indexed somewhere ?
gabriel_laddel: 7. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-04-2015#1113989 << When I change the argument list, rename a procedure, use an unnamed reference why are the holes not marked or filled? Why must I manually declare my local variables and functions? Can't the current top level expression be searched for occurrences then factored out on a keystroke? Why must I balance strings, whatever the level of nesting or escaping? Can th
Adlai: she can't spam faster than the speed of flood
Adlai: gabriel_laddel: at the very least, sending those in with a few-second delay would let assbot annotate the logs in a more readable manner
gabriel_laddel: 5. <mircea_popescu> kinda why i'm discovering all i really like off unix these days is like... curl. grep. << http://ridiculousfish.com/blog/posts/old-age-and-treachery.html
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 20:56:45; ascii_field: i'd be open to a purely gnumake-based thing instead of the sh
assbot: Logged on 21-04-2015 19:23:08; mircea_popescu: Pierre_Rochard you know the very notion that someone thinks themselves gay and jewish... it's like... the quadriplegic swimmer or something. the 98 yo beauty queen
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2014 14:54:45; nubbins`: "hey guys i'd like to open a sandwich shop, is there any place i can buy deli meats in bulk?"
gabriel_laddel: 1. A WoT host has been mentioned a few times in the logs - MP's new hosts (abusehosting.ru) accept bitcoin. It is probably easier to get them into the WoT than to start a new hosting company, which (understandably) no one wants to do. See also: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2014#565389
trinque: tell you what; this country is a shitty place, but I have the good fortune to have met a handful of americans worth knowing
Adlai: "Some people can claim different ethnicities or sexualities, thus allowing them to join an autonomous caucus (for instance queer or women’s) that they were not otherwise entitled to join"
Adlai: the second UD definition seems much more accurate:
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HeadMate | Apr 7, 2013 ... Headmate. A term thrown around mostly by people on tumblr. People who haven' t seen the sun in long enough begin to hallucinate vividly, ...
BingoBoingo: Who could have known that "The Catcher in the Rye" was about computing and JD Salinger was a time machine victim exponsed to Ubuntu
BingoBoingo: Nah, I'm not talking the "essential" "accessories" the distros themselves try to put up a PGP front
BingoBoingo: Doesn't pretty much every linux Distro try to at least pretend to the PGP signed sherezade?
BingoBoingo: I'm afraid to touch translations of the French language, but a certain subset of my WoT seems comfortable enough I'd publish their writeups on a Frog story
BingoBoingo: A hook is: what really got them boiling is that he published it on his blog.
mircea_popescu: 's all that's in there. what the guy actually reversed (of note) was the rc4 compression, and what really got them boiling is that he published it on his blog.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Because the target was MS-limb Skype and the impact makes a contrast to the "American Approach" could be a qntra
williamdunne: Either way though, could use some valid json
williamdunne: Unless its using the DB files
williamdunne: I'm assuming btcalpha is parsing the API in its current state
gribble: The operation succeeded.
williamdunne: I'm suggesting that if with .json it returned valid json it could not break btcalpha with the suggested update
williamdunne: Without the .json though its invalid json
decimation: lol http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-twitter-earns-20150429-story.html < "The company lost $162.4 million, compared with a loss of $132.4 million in the year-earlier quarter. Revenue jumped to $435.9 million from $250.5 million, but still fell far short of analysts' expectations of $463 million."
decimation: asciilifeform: apparently every agency in the dc/baltimore area is trying to pacify baltimore
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Mircea has wanted oglaf on the feed though, would be nice to have it in a way that isn't me doing "/nick oglafbot"
mircea_popescu: either set req.http.X-TVIP = client.ip; in varnish fucks up and sets the wrong thing ; or else, mod_remoteip fucks up the RemoteIPHeader X-TVIP conversion.
decimation: in theory it is still possible to sniff ssl traffic, but it's quite complex
mircea_popescu: decimation politically they're pleasant,
decimation: not only does ssl enable the fucktarded certificate crypto, it enables nefarious 'customized' behavior
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In library school for web projects some of the doctoral students I met had a dependecy on it an phpmyadmin for their web work. They did surgeries, I wondered if they contorted so because they needed to burn hours of their life or if they needed to meet "expectations"
BingoBoingo: Cpanel's primary design goal seems to be disorienting people when they try unperverted stuff such that they get hooked on the dope
decimation: https://www.varnish-cache.org/docs/trunk/phk/ssl_again.html < against 'ssl everywhere' < "With SSL Everywhere, these actors get much more privacy to invade the privacy of every human being with an internet connection, because it takes a lot more skill to look into a SSL connection than a plaintext HTTP connection."
BingoBoingo: Cpanel is another retardation
TomServo: pogoplug and such I understand.. but how does it factor in the cpanel debate?
asciilifeform: it's mainly the devices.
decimation: I predict that in the future this whole era of 'multi-core' manufacturing will be seen as crazy
decimation: other than "do more of what we have been doing for 30 years"
decimation: and it's painfully obvious that intel and friends have no idea how to actually make use of their sea of transistors
asciilifeform: TomServo: check out the pogoplug netbsd saga for one example.
TomServo: +asciilifeform | since quitting bsd ('04) << I'd love to hear more about this. Or why the preference for linux?
decimation: "IOW, all the people who say that it's about avoiding context switches are probably just full of shit. It's not about context switches, it's about bad user-level code."
asciilifeform: for the love of god, montrezor! (tm)
mircea_popescu: "At root whm go to Main >> Cluster/Remote Access >> Setup Remote Access Key Then click Generate New Key and retry to install"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.nginxcp.com/installation-instruction/ << there, random spamsite has nginx-for-cpanel prepackaged.
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:35; decimation: that once they are not in the job any more they realize they don't have nearly as many friends as they thought they did. The smarter ones do know this. And that's why so many[?] hang onto power. "
assbot: Logged on 05-02-2015 01:42:33; decimation: then I heard this podcast: http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2013/02/glenn_reynolds.html << "Guest: It's funny--one of my friends, who has been a long-term, upper level bureaucrat in Washington said to me his favorite phenomenon to see is these people coming through these usually politically-appointed jobs and, he says: They think everybody loves them. And then they leave the job and they realize that eve
decimation: as long as the slop keeps rolling
mircea_popescu: apparently easier to hallucinate "a relationship" with the bull.
mircea_popescu: governments everywhere always prefer the bull in that equation. tho their ideal is a herd of goats.
decimation: the corruption in selling physical goods to usg is nowhere near the size of the corruption of 'selling services'
mircea_popescu: haliburton didn't even bother, just "lost" a trillion.
mircea_popescu: blackwater "sold to the goverment" by jumpiong through the following hoops : "if you send anyone to investigate us, we'll just kill them"
decimation: "I do think that government often tilts the scale in favor of large organizations. The high fixed cost of regulatory compliance is one factor. Government has been a key customer in industries like aerospace, information technology, and finance, and the fixed costs of selling to government are very high, because of all of the hoops that you have to jump through."
decimation: he does hypothesize that later
BingoBoingo: "burndown" is the only solution to certain problems in horticulture
mircea_popescu: decimation that is not why large corporations exist. large corporations exist because it is cheaper for the socialist state to interact with larger items than with smaller items.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'What's a manager to do with a heap of stuff that isn't managed and doesn't wish to be?' 'Burn it ?' (from mircea_popescu's site) << pure gold << This is how I've been getting exercise these past couple weeks. Shovel and glyphosate + troclopyr... Actual fire comes later
decimation: "Of course, large corporations do exist. That is because as clumsy as they are, they can still be less clumsy than the alternative, which is to break a corporation into a network of contractually related divisions. "
mike_c: changing the date format helped. went from AP style "Dec. 12, 2012", "April 12, 2012" to more simple short format "Dec 12, 2012", "Apr 12, 2012"
mircea_popescu: modsecurity ITSELF is buggy when interacting with mod_remoteip. the devs understand the problem about as well as you'd expect of the php folk.
BingoBoingo: Nah, what's missing is me cataloguing all of the plants growning in the front flowerbeds, looking them up, and discovering the bulk of them are cardiotoxic.
mircea_popescu: yeah, thinking about it hey mike_c maybe cheaper than investigating is altering the date format to numeric ?
mircea_popescu: i'm bracing myself for the one day when we discover unequal fives somewhere on the internet.
mike_c: mircea_popescu: you're not crazy. sorting the timestamps works in chrome, not in FF. I'll investigate.
decimation: yet somehow it's the defacto standard for 'vpn'
trinque: probably done like shit; was written on the can after all
mircea_popescu: the only worse alternative to the worlds 2nd most common hoster seems to be... the world's MOST common.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform apparently not the worst.
asciilifeform: and did not require any wizardry there
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: phuctor, for instance, presently runs on 'the world's worst hoster', aws
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo not in the slightest. just that drones are cheaper than people. certainly with the us legal system such as it is. see mp's piece on 'how to go out in a blaze of glory'
mircea_popescu: a further three day experiment in the "linux is worthless and broadly unusable" meme. i guess it needed more documentation.
mircea_popescu: in the sense that is it still usable as a cpanel box or will i have to have it reflushed.
mircea_popescu: aha. well ok. did you break it in the process ?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I think you underestimate the potential drone casualties
asciilifeform: sit there sadly (tm)
mircea_popescu: so then what does this do ?
asciilifeform: (which is what i'd have to do if they were to be used simultaneously)
asciilifeform: i'm not dealing with syncing keys from the old install back into this one
asciilifeform: would, if there were any
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, is it at least crunching the numbers ?
pete_dushenski: dropping packages ordered online and heading back to homebase in the country far, far away
mircea_popescu: they're moving online ?
BingoBoingo: Back to just the normal shootings, police retreated, longtime businesses closing up and leaving
BingoBoingo: Ferguson's been mostly tamed by Sharptoon and other FBI folk
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Largely refugees came over in the 1990's colonized south city. The generation of Bosnians being targeted were largely the kids... The older ones seemed very unhappy about that...
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo and where's ferguson at these days ? i haven't heard much out of there recently.
mircea_popescu: "I tried to take the conversation out of feelings and into logic by claiming that" << roosh is a fucktard srsly.
asciilifeform: and apparently neither can anyone else
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I think some hmility was imposed when some of the black kids got too amped up on "kill whitey" and started going after Bosnians. Seems they learned better than to do that within a month or so.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Eh, There's a balance.
mircea_popescu: lol @the prostitution=alimony thing.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo mainly in terms of st louis being known for murders and crimes, and that a proper boiling over of the tensions between police and citizens could bring about positive resolution, whoever 'wins'
pete_dushenski: eh. st louis could use a kick in the pants from what i hear.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: At least Ferguson is decently removed from the St Louis city center
pete_dushenski: "Orioles will play Wednesday's game vs White Sox with NO audience in the stands." << heh. one for BingoBoingo.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: I'm just astounded at how he suggests he anticipated his appearance on the show could be anything other than a trap and how he failed to prepare accordingly
trinque: imo if the state of the system is represented as structured data a lot of these "munge the config more easily" programs go away
Adlai: fat is the new phat
Adlai: vhost-: help out the poor asciilifeform
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform from the certain corners of the internet department http://www.rooshv.com/how-i-was-backstabbed-by-dr-oz-and-his-female-producers
asciilifeform: eh the only good part of unix is |
mircea_popescu: kinda why i'm discovering all i really like off unix these days is like... curl. grep.
asciilifeform: so 'fits in head' is 'part of a balanced diet' with 'does whole job' (otherwise brick 'fits in head')
mircea_popescu: DO.THEWHOLE.JOB.
mircea_popescu: foss, the wonderful world of 90%
mircea_popescu: oh get the fuck out. ircd ? THIS works ?
mircea_popescu: nope. why would i even bother with www except for a blog
asciilifeform: hence the traditional 'cpanel is not removable' dictum
mircea_popescu: but you can stop the service in any case.
mircea_popescu: and if python.h fails, you prolly don't have th epaths set up right, it'll fai lthe same with or without some derpy package manager.
asciilifeform: normal people can get mod_wsgi if they want it.
asciilifeform: would like to run the fucking app without changes
mircea_popescu: then have python drop the statics in /home/whatever and apache will automagically serve them ?
asciilifeform: the whole thing was written in about a day, if you recall, in a mighty hurry
mircea_popescu: the wto who
mircea_popescu: so create them as files
mircea_popescu: then fish it out for web display
asciilifeform: the requiring apache (and not just any, but cpanel's custom) is cpanelism
mircea_popescu: the misplaced apache is pure linux
mircea_popescu: but the python stuff you ran into is pure linux,
asciilifeform: it poisons every single config on the box, and assumes php
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> i am still awaiting your gentoo canonical << not even objecting to the linux flavour of that box, but to the cpanel idiocy
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-04-2015#1114626 << the thing yarvin was building leaky submarines out of
mircea_popescu: unless some sort of consensus can emerge the public'll just split
trinque: doesn't seem there is one, neh?
trinque: patches of whatever size make sense, and there's a process by which everyone else can call the patch shit in public
trinque: *the hate of
mircea_popescu: i doubt the magical patch that fixes the 1001 things will fit in 100kb for instance.
mircea_popescu: nothing but -s in the diff
mircea_popescu: ascii_field: trinque: and if any of you produce a 100kB patch, and i barf on general principle << there is a problem here. the code as it is is pretty long. just a simple "remove most of it" will be in the kbs.
mircea_popescu: dun let me get in the way of meta-linux, by all means!
mircea_popescu: i am still awaiting your gentoo canonical build being published / your canonical web hoster being enacted on this or any other box etc.
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> heh who with a girl hasn't? << nor me either
mircea_popescu: and before anyone doubts that there can be such a thing : you COULD fuck a woman with a 3 inch drill bit attached to a percution drill.
asciilifeform: reminds me of an old neighbour of mine, who kept a 'colt 1911' - in his toolbox. with the drills, etc.
mircea_popescu: and never are heard from again, except for muffled cries in the solitude of the night.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform welcopme to linux world alfie. i hear it's where the smart boys go.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-04-2015#1114271 << nah, that's a misstatement. take the simpler case of poems. you do not need any particular microphone, varnish or anything else to know whether my poem's any good or not.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform so it has no python ios the idea << it has python and even, apparently, the headers, but can't see'em
BingoBoingo: They've got an OpenBSD, OpenSMTP, OpenNTP, OpenSSH, They might as well stick OpenSSL with finding a new front and themselves keep LibreSSL for confusion and lulz
Pierre_Rochard: BingoBoingo: they really should rebrand… maybe take LibreSSH haha
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 23:25:12; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-04-2015#1114179 << ssh being, of course, openssl. you read the earlier link re "why no ssl" ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-04-2015#1114217 << for the record, you don't want a single head. you want a number of heads, and measurably stake-able.
mircea_popescu: as they say, "nothing ruins a start-up quite like a bad money source early on"
mircea_popescu: after the deal your incentive is to sell more future income for its present value.
mircea_popescu: while before the deal your incentive might have been to realise future income,
williamdunne: Ah okay, I see the difference now
mircea_popescu: essentially, you(before the deal) and you(after the deal) are different and irreconciliably so.
williamdunne: Seems like a pretty rough line, either way its a choice, and the outcome is losing future income in return for something
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-04-2015#1114179 << ssh being, of course, openssl. you read the earlier link re "why no ssl" ?
mircea_popescu: you being their slave ?
williamdunne: What if someone else pays for a degree and in return they get a % of my salary?
williamdunne: If I invest in college, and the outcome is a law degree, with which I become a lawyer, how is that not investment?
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> what'd i run it on ? << it's not actually such a bad idea to render the whole thing as flat files and do something cleverish w/comments
mircea_popescu: like, guy going to homestead in 1800s utah. if he goes, there's going to be his homestead. if he doesn't go... there isn't going to be.
mircea_popescu: case I : causal. this satisfies both implication : with investment there NECESSARILY exists return ; without investment there NECESSARILY doesn't exist return.
mircea_popescu: while it's true that the somebody who wins might even be the guy, the fact remains that someone'd win whether the guy bought or didn't buy ticket.
mircea_popescu: case II : coincidental. guy buys lottery ticket. someone wins the lottery.
mircea_popescu: guy pays fortune teller for good stuff in the future. good stuff happens in the future.
BingoBoingo: <trinque> obviously, and so you're going to have every soldier cast the metal for his own gun? << Unreasonabru, but Officers outfitting their soldiers to the Officer's chosen spec has ample historical precedent
ben_vulpes: much as the girlies would like to "invest in their quality of life", such is just purchasing a big of hedonism.
mircea_popescu: does your expenditure CAUSE the return ? is it merely coincidental with the return ? is it merely halucinatorily related ?
mircea_popescu: all the derpy parents that "invest" in their children are making a stylistic choice of words, nothing more. it's a waste not an investment.
assbot: The sad story of me sniffing varnish on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1OBjmaC )
scoopbot_revived: News! The sad story of me sniffing varnish URL: http://trilema.com/2015/the-sad-story-of-me-sniffing-varnish/
assbot: Logged on 28-04-2015 18:43:52; williamdunne: davout: If I believe paymium will possibly fail, but that you're going do something great in the future, I would be better off investing in you than paymium
trinque: obviously, and so you're going to have every soldier cast the metal for his own gun?
mircea_popescu: isn't man the best game ?
mircea_popescu: and there are tools that make people dumber.
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as tools that make people smarter.
mircea_popescu: Adlai how about b) and make it good enough so its effect upon the world is to make more people of the like adlai can stand
trinque: surely there's a balance to be struck.
trinque: ^ I don't like that for the record; let every man forge his own AK
Adlai concludes that he should a) write the btc-dev-darcs-wrapper, and b) keep it to himself, so other people have to write their own
mircea_popescu: the angle being discussed is : give a man a hammer, suddenly he's looking for nails.
mircea_popescu: no, but that's not the angle being discussed.
Adlai: williamdunne: the problem is that git doesn't provide human-verifiable provenance